ما يقال بالبطركية

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  • Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I take it FPM remains a consistent pain in your A$$:cigar:
    A consistent target of my mockery for my own amusement*

    Let's stick to reality and not your wishful thinking, NewLeb.
     
    L'arbalette

    L'arbalette

    Well-Known Member
    When the Maronite were politically stronger in Lebanon under the leadership of Camille Chamoun they were not directly neutral when he chose to side with USA and even welcoming US marines to Lebanon!
    Just for historical accuracy, it was the sunnites who led a revolt, a the orders of Abdel el Nasser, in 1958. The Lebanese patriots stood their grounds in defense of the government and the country. The Marines came in after the facts to reinforce some sort of status quo in the country. Unfortunately, just as much as you like to blame the Shiites today to answer to Iran, the Sunnites were no better, placing (successively), Egypt, PLO and then KSA (and now Turkey?) as their rulers...
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    You can't prosecute him because he has a militia. And you can't remove the immunity because he can shutdown parliament anytime he pleases.

    I'm sure you know these two simple facts (because you're not the idiot you work extremely hard to be), but you'd rather not admit them because "Shiite unity" trumps all else.

    Unfortunately for you, you already admitted as much. In your view, FPMers want an inter-Shiite conflict, but that's not true. They want to prosecute Berri, but they can't without Hizbullah's help. No one can. And whether they, Hizbullah, or anyone else tries -- the result is a conflict with Berri's militia. So, like I said, Berri's corruption is OK with you as long as that conflict is avoided. So why are you being dishonest?

    I can't be caught defending FPM, so ignore this and carry on.
    Wow........... I’m not supposed to thank you for your own reputation but I just did.
    You said it better than I would've said it myself. I hope that doesn’t get you in trouble with your superiors;)
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Just for historical accuracy, it was the sunnites who led a revolt, a the orders of Abdel el Nasser, in 1958. The Lebanese patriots stood their grounds in defense of the government and the country. The Marines came in after the facts to reinforce some sort of status quo in the country. Unfortunately, just as much as you like to blame the Shiites today to answer to Iran, the Sunnites were no better, placing (successively), Egypt, PLO and then KSA (and now Turkey?) as their rulers...

    Not a fan of Jamal Abdul Nasser here but sure the man was very popular in Lebanon and people saw in him as a leader to follow but there were no armed support coming from Egypt or Syria at the time.. so lets not claim it as "historical accuracy".

    Even the UN intervened back then to investigate this and couldn't prove it!

    What kicked The 1958 revolt is the assassination of Nassib Metni, who was a critic of Camille Chamoun.

    Chamoun was never neutral and actually ally/puppet of the west and tried to join the Bagdad Pact officially but failed at all times!

    Yes the country was divided and still is divided between this and that!

    You favor Western influence for the obvious reasons and we favor a regional influence and feel more part of this region as a whole!

    ye3ni you favor USA and France and answer to them while others favor non-Western influence/dominance!

    Yesterday it was Egypt today it is Iran and so it continues!

    But don't come here claiming you are the better!
     
    L'arbalette

    L'arbalette

    Well-Known Member
    Not a fan of Jamal Abdul Nasser here but sure the man was very popular in Lebanon and people saw in him as a leader to follow but there were no armed support coming from Egypt or Syria at the time.. so lets not claim it as "historical accuracy".

    Even the UN intervened back then to investigate this and couldn't prove it!

    What kicked The 1958 revolt is the assassination of Nassib Metni, who was a critic of Camille Chamoun.

    Chamoun was never neutral and actually ally/puppet of the west and tried to join the Bagdad Pact officially but failed at all times!

    Yes the country was divided and still is divided between this and that!

    You favor Western influence for the obvious reasons and we favor a regional influence and feel more part of this region as a whole!

    ye3ni you favor USA and France and answer to them while others favor non-Western influence/dominance!

    Yesterday it was Egypt today it is Iran and so it continues!

    But don't come here claiming you are the better!
    You can claim whatever you want (and frame your allegiance to Egypt, KSA, etc. under the guise of "local environment" not to admit that you crave the Sunni dominance and two-tier citizens of the Ottoman occupation days).

    And just for the sake of accuracy, I never claimed Egyptians weapons came to Lebanon. I said Sunnis revolted using weapons against the legal government
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    You can claim whatever you want (and frame your allegiance to Egypt, KSA, etc. under the guise of "local environment" not to admit that you crave the Sunni dominance and two-tier citizens of the Ottoman occupation days).

    And just for the sake of accuracy, I never claimed Egyptians weapons came to Lebanon. I said Sunnis revolted using weapons against the legal government
    No I'll make it easier for you and say it openly my allegiance is to the Muslim Ummah!
    My Lebanon is not Western or European one!

    Like I said you favor a Western European dominance for the obvious reasons as this dominance benefited you for sure!

    But lets cut the crap with neutrality no one is neutral here!

    You have your reasons and we have ours and I believe both reasons are justified!
    Just look at the number of all the missionary schools in the Arab world..
    Sometimes you will find more of these missionary schools in Muslim majority regions than Christian majority regions!

    So ya I get that some would like this reality and other wont!
    Hopefully Lebanese Muslims are realizing today how wrong to allow these type of schools to indoctrinate our children!

    Peace
     
    L'arbalette

    L'arbalette

    Well-Known Member
    No I'll make it easier for you and say it openly my allegiance is to the Muslim Ummah!
    My Lebanon is not Western or European one!


    Peace
    You can have you allegiance to the Muslim something, 1) recognizing other muslims couldn't give a rat's a$$ about you and treat you like $hit -- just look at Saoudis or Emiratis; and 2) the only reason you have this allegiance is to give you leverage over your fellow citizens because it eats you up to have to treat "infidels" as equals
    Lebanon is not yours and is not Western nor European. At the same time, it is not Islamic. It predates Islam and will still be here after Islam (and other religions) are long gone... That's what you don't seem to want to understand. Everyone who does adhere to your islam focused view of the world you accuse of having allegiance to Europe when they simply believe in an independent Lebanon
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    You can have you allegiance to the Muslim something, 1) recognizing other muslims couldn't give a rat's a$$ about you and treat you like $hit -- just look at Saoudis or Emiratis; and 2) the only reason you have this allegiance is to give you leverage over your fellow citizens because it eats you up to have to treat "infidels" as equals
    Lebanon is not yours and is not Western nor European. At the same time, it is not Islamic. It predates Islam and will still be here after Islam (and other religions) are long gone... That's what you don't seem to want to understand. Everyone who does adhere to your islam focused view of the world you accuse of having allegiance to Europe when they simply believe in an independent Lebanon

    KSA and UAE are puppet countries created by the Western powers you know it, I know it, we all know it!

    And please cut the crap about equality.. the Lebanese system is far from being any of that!
    Just go look based on what sect affiliation they give out public jobs !

    Lebanon the 10452km2 doesn't even predates my grandfather..
    The truth is whether you are willing to admit it or not that Lebanon is Western dominated and today HA is endangering this reality to some extent as they are locally the strongest on the ground today!

    And this is coming from someone who is not directly a big fan of so called HA but one have to admit what is true no matter what!

    You can not just simply deny the Western dominance and its influence because it suits you.. these things exist whether you like to admit it or not and it does give or gave a leverage over your "fellow citizens" even though you are losing or lost some of this leverage today!

    We all want a more independent Lebanon but well all wan it differently and look to it differently!

    So you have your Lebanon and we have ours! w 7ela ba2aaa..
     
    L'arbalette

    L'arbalette

    Well-Known Member
    So you have your Lebanon and we have ours! w 7ela ba2aaa..
    Exactly, in the words of the great Gebran Khalil Gebran (sorry, he doesn't fit in your narrow bigoted view of the Umma, but you have to work hard to get to the level of little toe)...
    And I'm happy to return the compliment to you, "Hela" yourself.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Exactly, in the words of the great Gebran Khalil Gebran (sorry, he doesn't fit in your narrow bigoted view of the Umma, but you have to work hard to get to the level of little toe)...
    And I'm happy to return the compliment to you, "Hela" yourself.

    Actually he does fit in well.. maybe it is you being hateful who thinks otherwise!
    I'm not the one being bigoted here but clearly you are because you are intolerant lad who thinks his ways are the only ways!

    You need to stop your arrogance.. this arrogance didn't come out from nowhere by the way.. there are historical roots and background to it!
    But don't worry most people fell to that type of arrogance!

    I'm certain when the Ottomans ruled our region others were as arrogance as you are being right now.. and so it continues only the arrogant back then are humbled today and so the wheel goes round and round..

    God bless :)
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    We are too late for the Swiss neutral model as we are already in the conflict(s) and part of it!
    How can you reverse our not so neutral history!?

    The Swiss were good warriors who had good relations with almost everybody in Europe which benefited them in the later years.

    Also they were not divided between West and East (arab world) like the case with Lebanon!
     
    cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    Neutrality is an interesting concept for foreign policy and worth studying its applicability, advantages, and disadvantages for Lebanon. But, one should understand the following first:

    • We shouldn’t jump on it just because someone said so; it needs deep analysis
    • Neutrality is worthless if it is not guaranteed by our neighbours and foreign powers. The Swiss neutrality (a remarkable model) was able to flourish and survive major conflicts ONLY because it was decided and guaranteed by Switzerland’s neighbours and foreign powers in 1815 treaty of Paris and Congress of Vienna (it took Switzerland almost 300 years to reach real neutrality and it was mainly imposed on it, and then of course the swiss turned it into an advantage)


    That’s for the concept of neutrality, I’m very interested in it. However, I feel that for a political perspective the timing of the statement from Rahi was a terrible ruse to divert the public attention from the real and the most important issues the country is facing right now, and to widen the gap between all the different fractions of the country. His ruse, unfortunately, seems to be working.

    Right now we need to focus on how to get rid of the current political class (which includes religious figures) and build a new economy and new State
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    I think the interesting question to know is how come all Europeans sides agreed on keeping Switzerland a "neutral" ground?
    What did the conflicting European countries share in common in Switzerland and what was Switzerland offering them?

    And who benefited mostly other than Switzerland from this neutrality? For instance the Nazi where getting the resources they wanted after all from Switzerland.. righti?

    Also usually with being "neutral ground" it would attract all kind of people and action like espionage, assassinations, refugees etc.
    Was there lot of assassination happening in Switzerland back then ?

    And how much did the mountainous landscape play a role in not being invaded if any ?
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    You and many of your colleagues with the same broken record seem to be under the impression that Lebanon’s problems started in 2006. Before that it was Adam and Eve living in paradise until Adam and Eve had sex in their neighbor’s apartment. So hell broke lose and that’s how modern humanity and wars started on earth.

    That’s why I was wondering how old you are and where did you learn all the smart things you're repeating.
    A follow up for our juniors who are under the impression Lebanon's problems started in 2006. Before that it was continuous honeymoon in paradise:
    Here is a glimpse of 100 years if regional history in less then 10 minutes...
    Never too late to learn...


     
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