2019 Coronavirus Disease "COVID-19" [Russia approved first Covid-19 vaccine]

Abou Sandal

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Which rhymes well with the story I told you about, many many pages back, coming from my Chinese coworker, about the pandemic having started as early as of mid nov /start of dec in Wuhan. If you remember. Glad you finally find it worth considering ;)
I’ve been saying for some time now that the virus seems to have already started circulating since November and in many parts of the World.

Easy on the quick conclusions though
 
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  • Dr. Strangelove

    Dr. Strangelove

    Nuclear War Expert
    Staff member
    What are the new rules?
    Phase 1 will reopen the safest and most crucial sectors. Mostly industry, farming, government services and small shops. There are strict schedules for which days and what hours they can open. Masks are mandatory for everyone, and free masks will be handed out by the army (and ISF?) for those who don't have them.

    That's as far as I remember. The rest are basic social distancing rules.
     
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I’ve been saying for some time now that the virus seems to have already started circulating since November and in many parts of the World.

    Easy on the quick conclusions though
    Uhm..uhm.. The article speaks specifically of Wuhan. You just agreed to it being worth considering. There's all the conclusion I needed you to admit. Which you just did. uhm.. uhm.. :)
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    As opposed to famously bird friendly burning of coal and fossil fuels?

    More relatedly: Coronavirus detected on particles of air pollution
    Watch this...

    Sadly, so-called green energy sources themselves rely on fossil fuel...

     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Uhm..uhm.. The article speaks specifically of Wuhan. You just agreed to it being worth considering. There's all the conclusion I needed you to admit. Which you just did. uhm.. uhm.. :)

    Yes It’s worth considering that the virus started circulating in China in November, and that the CIA and the Mossad knew about it, and the Chinese only discovered it when the epidemic exploded.

    It’s also worth considering claims by people, just like your friend, that the virus was also being in circulation in October or even earlier in the US.

    But what is most seriously worth considering, are the research studies conclusions about the virus type found in Wuhan, being a derived mutation of the virus type found in the US, while the virus type found in Europe is a derived mutation of the virus type found in Wuhan.

    You seem lately to want to stop at the point that you want to believe, and ignore the rest.

    El Mouhemm enno at least Tle3na Men El Batsoup stories
     
    Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    Member
    Phase 1 will reopen the safest and most crucial sectors. Mostly industry, farming, government services and small shops. There are strict schedules for which days and what hours they can open. Masks are mandatory for everyone, and free masks will be handed out by the army (and ISF?) for those who don't have them.

    That's as far as I remember. The rest are basic social distancing rules.
    Would places like Keteb 3adel will be re-opened this week?
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Watch this...

    Sadly, so-called green energy sources themselves rely on fossil fuel...

    Yep, I've been meaning to watch this and will soon. I've heard a lot of criticism of the factual accuracy of the documentary from very well-respected folks in the environmental movement as well as the fact that it almost entirely relies on oil industry talking points. So, I'll wait to see it before judging. However, regardless of how much reliance green energy has on fossil fuels, it is not of the same level as actually having fossil fuels actually *be* the entire basis of energy consumption.
     
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Yes It’s worth considering that the virus started circulating in China in November, and that the CIA and the Mossad knew about it, and the Chinese only discovered it when the epidemic exploded.

    It’s also worth considering claims by people, just like your friend, that the virus was also being in circulation in October or even earlier in the US.

    But what is most seriously worth considering, are the research studies conclusions about the virus type found in Wuhan, being a derived mutation of the virus type found in the US, while the virus type found in Europe is a derived mutation of the virus type found in Wuhan.

    You seem lately to want to stop at the point that you want to believe, and ignore the rest.

    El Mouhemm enno at least Tle3na Men El Batsoup stories
    The Soup Nazi says Hi and "no bat soup for you".:lol:
    We need to avoid the running in circular marathons which you usually end up dragging me to, no matter how much I tell you I just had a wrestling match with a grizzly.
    The article you just acknowledged was worth considering, talks about the pandemic having started in Wuhan in nov. That was something we debated long ago, like 50 pages AD, with you on the rejecting end.

    How strains of the virus were found, where and what mutations could have caused them and where each strain is suspected to have evolved from, is something we may need to return to when more of the corona dust has settled and if we ever agree on a common denominator that describes what should be considered a reliable source of information.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Yep, I've been meaning to watch this and will soon. I've heard a lot of criticism of the factual accuracy of the documentary from very well-respected folks in the environmental movement as well as the fact that it almost entirely relies on oil industry talking points. So, I'll wait to see it before judging. However, regardless of how much reliance green energy has on fossil fuels, it is not of the same level as actually having fossil fuels actually *be* the entire basis of energy consumption.
    Well...I'm always skeptical of anything in the media, no matter what "side" it seems to be on. This is one point of view. I've also looked into the other side's point of view.

    As far as this documentary / point of view is concerned, I'm not surprised that those in the environmental movement are opposing it. The filmmaker is a self-proclaimed "tree-hugger" (not pro-fossil fuel) who says environmental organizations have sold themselves out to corporations. As for "green" energy...it's not that they are somewhat relying on fossil fuels...it's that they apparently use more fossil fuels and have a bigger impact on the environment than if we just burned fossil fuels in the first place.

    How true are those claims made in the documentary? Those interested can try to fact check. But, on the surface, they do seem logical.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The Soup Nazi says Hi and "no bat soup for you".:lol:
    We need to avoid the running in circular marathons which you usually end up dragging me to, no matter how much I tell you I just had a wrestling match with a grizzly.
    The article you just acknowledged was worth considering, talks about the pandemic having started in Wuhan in nov. That was something we debated long ago, like 50 pages AD, with you on the rejecting end.

    How strains of the virus were found, where and what mutations could have caused them and where each strain is suspected to have evolved from, is something we may need to return to when more of the corona dust has settled and if we ever agree on a common denominator that describes what should be considered a reliable source of information.
    When I read articles, I usually find worth considering in it, what I find worth considering, be it one word. You trying to make me say that what is worth considering is what you found worth considering, is what takes us in circles.

    Like your claim that I rejected the notion that the virus was circulating since November. Untrue, especially that I was the one who didn’t stop saying that the virus appeared well before the Wuhan market, as a counter argument to the Batsoup believers...like you, who tried hard to convince me otherwise.

    What I rejected, however, is the unfounded claim that the Chinese Government was hiding the epidemic. And I still reject it. More than ever.

    And if those 2 new articles have any truth in them, then it means the US and the Mossad were the ones hiding the epidemic...And not informing the Chinese Government of it officially, would then be very suspicious.

    As for the strains of the virus, found in different parts of the Globe, the science has so far told us an objective story that is absolutely revealing. I’ve been waiting for contradictory studies, but nothing so far. So until then, this should be the major lead, and not stupid stories recycled daily by MSM, who conveniently, and suspiciously, completely ignore this main lead.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    Well...I'm always skeptical of anything in the media, no matter what "side" it seems to be on. This is one point of view. I've also looked into the other side's point of view.

    As far as this documentary / point of view is concerned, I'm not surprised that those in the environmental movement are opposing it. The filmmaker is a self-proclaimed "tree-hugger" (not pro-fossil fuel) who says environmental organizations have sold themselves out to corporations. As for "green" energy...it's not that they are somewhat relying on fossil fuels...it's that they apparently use more fossil fuels and have a bigger impact on the environment than if we just burned fossil fuels in the first place.

    How true are those claims made in the documentary? Those interested can try to fact check. But, on the surface, they do seem logical.
    Haven't watched the documentary either, I'll get to it at some point and make a more informed comment then, however I do have one thing to point out : The idea that fossil fuels were used in the production of renewable energy sources and thus renders them "not green" is somewhat misleading considering that's all we relied on for quite a long time as energy source, that's why it's generally called a transition to green energy not an automatic thing.

    Now I have big reservations on solar farms considering they create more pollution than they should during the production phase, and for the time being they're not as efficient as they should be, however the documentary points to one farm in particular saying it's now a wasteland when it's not the case at all, apparently it's just sand as it was before the installation of photovoltaic cells. (According to some articles I've read on the subject). Also the idea that renewable energy consumes more fossil fuel than if you just use fossil fuel is laughable! If we remain on the example of photovoltaic cells, while their production requires a lot of energy, they usually pay it back within two years, most recently it takes only 6 months, the rest of their yield would be completely green which is a vast improvement on consuming just coal or fossil fuels.

    The documentary also completely ignores nuclear energy which today is the most effective renewable energy source available, it is not without its detractors either of course considering people hear the word nuclear and just run towards their pitchforks lol.

    I'll expand on this after watching the documentary in the appropriate thread.
     
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    When I read articles, I usually find worth considering in it, what I find worth considering, be it one word. You trying to make me say that what is worth considering is what you found worth considering, is what takes us in circles.

    Like your claim that I rejected the notion that the virus was circulating since November. Untrue, especially that I was the one who didn’t stop saying that the virus appeared well before the Wuhan market, as a counter argument to the Batsoup believers...like you, who tried hard to convince me otherwise.

    What I rejected, however, is the unfounded claim that the Chinese Government was hiding the epidemic. And I still reject it. More than ever.

    And if those 2 new articles have any truth in them, then it means the US and the Mossad were the ones hiding the epidemic...And not informing the Chinese Government of it officially, would then be very suspicious.

    As for the strains of the virus, found in different parts of the Globe, the science has so far told us an objective story that is absolutely revealing. I’ve been waiting for contradictory studies, but nothing so far. So until then, this should be the major lead, and not stupid stories recycled daily by MSM, who conveniently, and suspiciously, completely ignore this main lead.
    You don't seem to have any problem with believing anything that points at the Americans guilt regarding anything. And that I do actually understand and sympathize with to some extent. Those folks do have some disadvantage with their poking history a little with everyone everywhere.

    But when it comes to the Chinese government, a state of the art regime at oppressing opinions and truth that are deemed harmful for the red image, you are quick at accrediting them truth with no questions asked. With them, in this pandemic case, it seems their denial constitutes a solid proof for you to absolve them from their guilt of cover up. Not encouraging for the debate, considering you believe a certified liar by design and default of being one party dictatorship.

    If all it takes for you to deem a story/report/news to be unfounded is for the accused to simply deny it despite the presence of convincing circumstantial evidence in lack of the smoking gun, then we're at a dead end already.

    I bet you also believe their official daily corona infection/death reports where as of today they claim they had 6 new infected and zero death toll. :cigar:
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I'm not the one allocating stars and black points all around (maybe with one exception, suggesting drinking dettol as a solution). I'm just saying that your French bashing (or "anti-Francais primaire") is baseless. You could probably come up with better data to assess the success or not.
    Anecdotally, the French hospitals were never overwhelmed like the Italians or the Spaniards (or those in NYC). They managed to balance resources with needs by moving patients throughout the country.

    As I said weeks ago, the performance is really driven by three factors, only one (number 3) can be controlled by the current administration:
    1) When and where the virus started (i.e. did the government have enough time to prepare, etc. )
    2) How good was the health infrastructure to begin with
    3) What did the government do with the head-start they had

    So let's give it a few more weeks before we see who did well and who didn't
    I don't care what you think dude. The fact of the matter is that France has the 4th highest number of Covid-19 deaths in the world, and that is an indicator of a botched response to the pandemic.

    So perhaps you and your little Trump-obsessed cheerleader Isabella ought to check your own backyard before barging into someone else's.

    Take care @L'arbalette aka @Nonan.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You don't seem to have any problem with believing anything that points at the Americans guilt regarding anything. And that I do actually understand and sympathize with to some extent. Those folks do have some disadvantage with their poking history a little with everyone everywhere.

    But when it comes to the Chinese government, a state of the art regime at oppressing opinions and truth that are deemed harmful for the red image, you are quick at accrediting them truth with no questions asked. With them, in this pandemic case, it seems their denial constitutes a solid proof for you to absolve them from their guilt of cover up. Not encouraging for the debate, considering you believe a certified liar by design and default of being one party dictatorship.

    If all it takes for you to deem a story/report/news to be unfounded is for the accused to simply deny it despite the presence of convincing circumstantial evidence in lack of the smoking gun, then we're at a dead end already.

    I bet you also believe their official daily corona infection/death reports where as of today they claim they had 6 new infected and zero death toll. :cigar:

    You seem to read stuff here and there, only in search of any word that helps you sustain your feelings that Chinese are bad and the Chinese Government is lying, or whatever story you already decided will be yours.

    Fine, I get that and see and understand it well, but you need not to assume that that’s how everyone functions.

    See, unlike some, I’m not here to prove the innocence or the guilt of any party. (I don’t care for that part at all, actually).

    But most importantly, I do not assume innocence or guilt just because it fits the profile or comforts my feelings or ideology or whatever.

    This is why I have no difficulty exploring any lead, as long as it’s not a blatant lie (which I denounce).

    In contradiction, some feel deeply touched when someone tells them a different story than what they like to believe, and are ready to defend the lie they cherish, to the last extent.

    The ones who believe that I’m here to defend a Party and accuse another, are precisely the ones who fall in that last category. What I say bothers them deeply. I know that. But is it my fault?

    Now here is a scoop for you, because maybe you did not notice it: while I debated in this thread many issues and tried to highlight many lies, yet unlike many, who obviously know better than everyone, I still never claimed anything. Not a single claim. (Despise being accused of many)

    I just denounce false claims. I highlight the lies when I find them. Sure. I also present leads worthy of consideration. Undoubtedly.

    However I do not present claims. I only counter lies. Big difference.
     
    I

    illusion84

    Member
    A second wave is coming ; people are getting reckless; safety procedures are not being respected! That's so Lebanese; follow the rules for few weeks and then forget all about it!

    Yesterday in Tarik el Jdideh people were shopping 3ade; and then a major fight occurred on Malla with tens of guys fighting each others for some odd reason.

    Today revolution is back to the street; tomorrow everything will open ; Allah ynajina.
     
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You seem to read stuff here and there, only in search of any word that helps you sustain your feelings that Chinese are bad and the Chinese Government is lying, or whatever story you already decided will be yours.

    Fine, I get that and see and understand it well, but you need not to assume that that’s how everyone functions.

    See, unlike some, I’m not here to prove the innocence or the guilt of any party. (I don’t care for that part at all, actually).

    But most importantly, I do not assume innocence or guilt just because it fits the profile or comforts my feelings or ideology or whatever.

    This is why I have no difficulty exploring any lead, as long as it’s not a blatant lie (which I denounce).

    In contradiction, some feel deeply touched when someone tells them a different story than what they like to believe, and are ready to defend the lie they cherish, to the last extent.

    The ones who believe that I’m here to defend a Party and accuse another, are precisely the ones who fall in that last category. What I say bothers them deeply. I know that. But is it my fault?

    Now here is a scoop for you, because maybe you did not notice it: while I debated in this thread many issues and tried to highlight many lies, yet unlike many, who obviously know better than everyone, I still never claimed anything. Not a single claim. (Despise being accused of many)

    I just denounce false claims. I highlight the lies when I find them. Sure. I also present leads worthy of consideration. Undoubtedly.

    However I do not present claims. I only counter lies. Big difference.
    Let's see. Here's what you wrote one reply ago:

    Like your claim that I rejected the notion that the virus was circulating since November. Untrue, especially that I was the one who didn’t stop saying that the virus appeared well before the Wuhan market, as a counter argument to the Batsoup believers...like you, who tried hard to convince me otherwise.

    What I rejected, however, is the unfounded claim that the Chinese Government was hiding the epidemic. And I still reject it. More than ever.
    As you notice in the quoted paragraph, with the exact words you wrote, you say you were the one saying that the virus appeared well before Wuhan market, meaning way before end of dec, start of jan, the days approximately when the Chinese informed the WHO and the world about the pandemic.

    Just to follow it with your absolute conviction about the Chinese Government not "hiding the epidemic".

    The article you posted about the Americans informing the Israelis about the virus in Wuhan in nov and which you deemed to be worthy of considering, should then be in line with your and my ideas about the pandemic being already in place in China 2 months before they declared it out to the world.

    How do you reconcile the aforementioned statement with your absolute conviction that the Chinese did not hide the epidemic? Het ta nshouf.
     
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