A rare critical look at Rafiq Hariri that you rarely see in the Western press

neutral

Legendary Member
just for you abou balad :wink:

from the lebanese center of policy studies

experpts from a case study on The Print Media and Corruption In Lebanon

by Oussama K. Safa LCPS Researcher

The agreement was mediated by the Syrian and Saudi governments and became known as the Taef agreement. Parliament ratified the Taef agreement and presidential elections were held followed by parliamentary elections for the first time since 1972. Regional and local political factors propelled Lebanese-Saudi billionaire, Rafik Hariri, to the helm of the executive office where he became Prime Minister of Lebanon.
it was hoped that the government of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri would implement a comprehensive reform of the public administration and improve the public sector's efficiency and modernize the system. Instead, Hariri ran politics like a business enterprise appointing his staff in key government and administration posts where he had many of them on his payroll. He managed to set up state institutions parallel to the government's and answering to him directly in some cases without any form of supervision. Under his leadership, the public administration became overcrowded with employees mostly appointed for political reasons.
The succession of three cabinets headed by Prime Minister Rafik Hariri between 1992 and 1998 has produced several allegations of grand corruption, theft of public property, cronyism and other illicit acts of governance.
The Hariri government "excesses" triggered a public outcry, which was shouldered by the media, particularly newspapers as well as other print media. Public complaints were also voiced by opposition figures inside and outside parliament, associations of bankers, industrialists, as well as intellectuals and thinkers. A culmination of public discontent with the government's performance was evident in the sales rank of a new book by MP Najah Wakim in 1997 detailing corrupt deals and thefts by government officials.
In 1993, before the completion of its first anniversary, the Hariri government undertook a national campaign to reform the state administration in order to inaugurate a fresh postwar start, streamline the bureaucracy and eliminate corruption, reform the laws and increase transparency and stimulate investments in the economy. The campaign was widely publicized as the yardstick of success for the Prime Minister who was a relatively newcomer to the political arena in Lebanon. The campaign for reform constituted an attack on the customary political practice in Lebanon: cronyism and sectarian affiliations in most public sector appointments. Such an attack would have had to rattle the cages of entrenched politicians and strip them of their allies in the administration.

The main pillars of the campaign were to re-energize the roles of the state's inspection bodies: the Central Inspection Bureau, the Court of Accounts, the Disciplinary Council and the Civil Service Council. The government also formed a unified council to oversee its campaign and implement the resolutions of the council of ministers which met repeatedly in extraordinary sessions to draw up and implement the reform plan.
The skepticism was also reinforced by the fact that the political performance of the Hariri government less than a year in office was not encouraging. Allegations of cronyism and corruption were already abound and accusations of illegal contracting were flying.
The media also began to question the motivation behind the timing of the campaign, which allegedly was used in order to pass the government's proposed plan to reconstruct ravaged downtown district, otherwise known as SOLIDERE plan, referring to the company's name. The plan, which was hard to swallow for the majority of citizens, was replete with irregularities such as underpricing and buying real estate under the guise of rebuilding the city. The plan needed the consent of most of the ministers and the majority of MPs in order to pass the legal requirements. Politicians and senior officials backed the SOLIDERE plan at the expense of protecting their appointed allies in government and consequently the campaign for administrative reform suffered. Soon the government's reform plan began to loose momentum and came to a halt.

During that period the media began to express citizen's impatience at the government's slow reform drive and hint at the fact that this was used in order to pass the SOLIDERE plan.
In 1993 the government of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri announced its intention to launch a comprehensive campaign to purge and reform the public administration in all its agencies. The Council of Ministers held multiple consecutive meetings and the Minister of Administrative Reform was commissioned with the task of drawing up the necessary plans. It was barely less than three years after the end of the war and the Hariri government with less than a year in office was looking to overhaul the country's bureaucracy and move on. Reforming the administration was a very attractive proposition to a weary and tired public after fifteen years of fighting and living in the absence of a functioning state bureaucracy. Hariri's plan -- as he claimed -- was ultimately aimed at instilling an efficient bureaucracy managed by technocrats in order to stimulate investments and carry through reconstruction plans - an objective that later proved inadequate to counter the strong entrenchment of politicians in the system. The main vehicle of civil society interaction with the government was the print media which served to express the opinion of the public by publishing studies, essays, editorials or investigative and analytical reports supporting or objecting to the government's plan.

During that same year, however, the Hariri government was also drawing and trying to sell to the public a controversial plan to rebuild the ravaged city-center. The reconstruction plan was prepared and led by a newly established company at the time SOLIDERE in which the Prime Minister and a group of his associates were the highest shareholders. The plan was met with a stiff opposition at the outset, mainly by current owners of real estate in the claimed area as well as by some civil society members, backed by few MPs and opposition figures. An attractive, national reform plan would steal the lights away from focusing on SOLIDERE and give the government some room to breathe by distracting the public and launching a serious reform campaign, though devoid of the necessary political will to achieve genuine results.
In fact at the beginning of 1993, while hundreds of low-level state employees were purged under the pretext of reforming the administration a number of key level appointments were made placing at sensitive position men who worked directly for the prime minister, or were closely affiliated with the speaker of parliament or the president. In fact, in 1999 a large number of the appointees of 1993 were prosecuted and jailed or have warrants for their arrests. The Prime Minister used the deteriorating state of the administration to create his own "bureaucracy" leading to the establishment of a number of autonomous bureaus answering directly to him (Wakim, Black Hands, p.86, 7th edition, 1998).
In an interview, the minister of administrative reform indicated that it is known that people in the government have been stealing and overcharging their bills while forging official documents, however they were the untouchable of the system. (A. Khalil, with Adnan Hajj, Assafir, 20/11/95).
THEFT OF TREASURY STAMPS

The media also pressed on with the fact that with a fourth level state functionary involved, there had to be someone responsible such as the minister or director-general who must resign or be reprimanded.

The media alluded to Sleiman's involvement with an MP from the Bekaa region of Lebanon, then Defense Minister, Mohsen Dalloul. Sleiman had organized in the summer preceding his disappearance an election rally for Dalloul (both men come from the same region) and became close to the minister.
The political system however remains a cover for big politicians and obliges the civil society's movement to be very restricted and limited at best. There hasn't been a case where a high-ranking politician (speaker, Prime Minister or president) was arrested for dereliction of duties or abetting corruption. Lower ranking politicians and one-time proteges end up the ones to blame as are the cases of Ra'fat Sleiman and Kasem Hamade. Moreover the limited success of these episodes were confined to few cases and haphazard efforts that found the required support and right circumstances for them to succeed. In these cases the backing of politicians and MPs as well as influential community leaders was essential for their success and without which any campaign would have been short-lived.
 

fidelio

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
[FIELDSET="angryarab blogspot"]Friday, March 30, 2007
Mr. Hariri Propagandist: The Tale of the Kind Billionaire who allowed his bodyguard to kiss his hand.
I finished reading Nicholas Blanford's Killing Mr. Lebanon. I am reviewing a couple of books on Lebanon for an academic journal. Are you kidding me? When I finished reading it on the plane, I felt that I owe an apology to Hariri propagandists Farish Khashshan and Brent Sadler. Where do I begin. You can read my review elsewhere, but this is quite unbelievable. It is an official Hariri biography and "research" is solely interviews with Hariri entourage, and he no more than repeats the gossips, rumors, and innuendos that are contained in the vulgar and crude columns of official Hariri propagandist, Farish Khashshan in the Hariri rag. He did interview two pro-Syrian politicians but only to mock them. But in fairness: when he needed insights on Sunni public mood in Lebanon, he did cite the famous Sunni thinker, Michael `Umar Young (not to be confused with his Shi`ite twin brother, Michael Husayn Young).(p. 197). Even when Rafiq Hariri offers his hand to be kissed by his bodyguard (a well-known opportunist thug), it is portrayed by Blanford as a great act of generosity and kindness on the part of Hariri: "Hariri had sat on the sofa and raised his hand. [Yahya] Arab took it and kissed it. It was intensely personal moment."(p. 137). I mean, when I read that on the plane, tears started to stream down my cheeks. Were you not as touched as I was? (And Blanford who sometimes tells the same story twice in the badly edited book, tells the kissing-of-the-hand story twice). Why not thrice, Mr. Blanford. But worse, he dares to mock a Syrian demonstrator for allegedly holding a sign in English upside down (p. 160). Let me tell you, Mr. correspondent of the White Man. That Syrian worker you mocked, I am sure, has a better command of English than your (lack of) command in Arabic. Let me see you handle an Arabic sign. And I am sure that his Arabic is as good as your English, if not better (Syrian schooling really stresses Arabic unlike Lebanon). (And you mock the Syrian's English when you refer to Allah Akbar as "Akhbar"? Did you hear that on Israeli radio one day and it stuck in your ear? And you refer to mourning as "azar"? And you have the audacity to mock that Syrian worker? And Blanford (who under his name wrote about "tele-genic" March 14th demonstrators in a lousy MERIP piece after Hariri's assassination although he claimed (accurately) that the word was inserted by the editor as if this was the only problem with that article) is still impressed with the March 14th demonstrators. He cited a Lebanese man saying: "These aren't the $10 crowd. This is the bourgeoisie." Blandford was very impressed, and he adds: "Glamorous Maronite women, wearing chic black dresses, and sporting designer sunglasses, chatted in French and held aloft pictures of Hariri" (p. 146). And Blanford does not know that Hariri had any role in the UNSC 1559, which can only lead to one of two conclusions: 1) that he has not read the Western accounts and has not talked to people in Lebanon and outside of Lebanon who can tell him about Hariri's energetic role described in London Times among other places; 2) or he knows and is deliberately lying and covering up in the manner known for Hariri sycophants--and those sycophants are the only ones that he talked to, and whose accounts he reports UNCRITICALLY. Why not publish this book as a transcript of Hariri's entourage's conversations. But if you want a good laugh, you have to read his references to mini-Hariri. This is how mini-Hariri is described: "His mild-mannered, almost shy, persona, soft voice and quiet, self-deprecating wit could have been mistaken for insecurity, but Saad was no neophyte."(p. 168). But in fairness he does cite some of the aphorisms of mini-Hariri, and some are more profound than those of Nietzsche: "Politics is very difficult life."(p. 183) Or "My father served Lebanon all his life, and we will keep serving Lebanon also, like him."(p. 145) And everybody in March 14th, including right-wing zealots, fascists, and war criminals are simply described as "democracy campaigner." That is how he fondly remembers Jubran Tuwayni ,the notoriously sectarian and racist agitator who aligned himself with Saddam Husayn in 1990-1991. And this is Nayla Mu`awwad: "an energetic and attractive woman with a crown of Auburn hair." (p. 143.) As for the economic problems of Lebanon during more than 10 years of Hariri's holding the office of prime minister and controlling much of the government, well, he simply blames that on `Umar Karami who held the office of prime minister in 1991-1992.(p. 115). His term is, in Blanford's propaganda account, responsible for the massive debt and corruption of Lebanon. Well, corruption is no big deal for Blanford: he even justifies and dismisses the massive bribery by Hariri family in elections by saying "Vote-buying is a traditional feature of Lebanese elections..."(p. 227). And there is more, but I will save that for the full review.[/FIELDSET]

Some good opinions and some harsh ones, you decide, it's HIS point of view.
 

neutral

Legendary Member
[FIELDSET="angry arab blog"]Hariri Propaganda Publishing. I knew that I was NOT going to like a book on Lebanon recommended by Robert Fisk and Fu'ad Sanyurah. But Marwan Iskandar's Rafiq Hariri: And the Fate of Lebanon is nothing more than a lazy work of propaganda, filled with bizarre theories and boring tales--more boring when they involve the author--often avoided by Lebanese talk show hosts because he has been known to push people to early sleep as soon as he starts talking on TV. You may read my review elsewhere but I just want to say imagine a book that is so anti-communist that it accused the KGB of killing Emile Bustani who died in plane crash in 1963. But on Hariri, I did learn a great deal. I read, for example that: "Hariri was immensely strong physically and believed in regular exercise. He would spend half an hour in the morning on the treadmill or lifting weights."(p. 63). Do you want me to continue? No wonder I was told that Hariri family is now giving out free copies of this book and of Blanford's other Hariri propagandistic biography. And if Blanford blamed Lebanon's economic woes on `Umar Karami (who served in 1991-92), this fellow blamed Salim Huss (who served between 1998-2000). As for Hariri who served for 10 years as prime minister, who who managed the lousy economic debacle of Lebanon, well--he was...lifting weights and walking on the treadmill. Don't get me wrong: there is some new information and insights in the book. Like, did you know that Warren Christopher is "elegant and aristocratic"?(p. 77)[/FIELDSET]
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
Why were you next to the FM after 14feb?
Why do you guys forget that FM and FPM were SO close together after 14feb?
Did you guys forget when the FM guys (shabeb el mousta2bal) used to say : ma mnekol bala ekhwetna bel tayyar
That was after el tanmiya used to distribute food lal campers!
Walla 7aram tenso kel hal chi! Hariri was a criminal?Tayib fine,ma kento tou2afo 7add all the people who support him!
 

Observer

Well-Known Member
Why were you next to the FM after 14feb?
Why do you guys forget that FM and FPM were SO close together after 14feb?
Did you guys forget when the FM guys (shabeb el mousta2bal) used to say : ma mnekol bala ekhwetna bel tayyar
That was after el tanmiya used to distribute food lal campers!
Walla 7aram tenso kel hal chi! Hariri was a criminal?Tayib fine,ma kento tou2afo 7add all the people who support him!


How come then you forgot everything Syria did to support hariri and jumblat? How come you forgot everything hariri did to syria? no leader, absolutely no sunni leader ever gave as much to syria as hariri did. How come you forgot all that? And you lie with a straight face too and claim hariri was syria opponent? fabricating history. If FPM forgot then fine but you can never ask them why while you , the harirists, are the masters of hypocricy and the owners of biggest memory hole ever.
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
Why were you next to the FM after 14feb?
Why do you guys forget that FM and FPM were SO close together after 14feb?
Did you guys forget when the FM guys (shabeb el mousta2bal) used to say : ma mnekol bala ekhwetna bel tayyar
That was after el tanmiya used to distribute food lal campers!
Walla 7aram tenso kel hal chi! Hariri was a criminal?Tayib fine,ma kento tou2afo 7add all the people who support him!

we were close for one month only. And in fact, we weren't even that close. it was a crossroads of interest. we only joined on getting Syria out. we disagreed on everything else.
and when were they the past 15 years? food will not make us forget their deeds.
And RH was a thief and corrupt and a syrian puppet. for 15 years, he was the caretaker of the lebanese economy, litterary a caretaker (lol).

how about the election law? should we forget accepting a syrian law just to hurt FPm and getting the highest number of seats? Should we forget their visits to GMA to urge him not to came back to lebanon? should we forget the Tsunami statements? Should we forget too that they allied with HA and Amal against FPM? and should we also forget that they gave Lahoud the ministrial seats FPM wanted?

And plz, this guilt and feel of sympathy won't make us change our minds when they start accusing us of being syrians. the syrian slaves for 15 years are now calling the anti-syrian resistants for 15 years prosyrians. we won't accept such hypocrisy, and won't condone it either.
 

neutral

Legendary Member
Why were you next to the FM after 14feb?
Why do you guys forget that FM and FPM were SO close together after 14feb?
Did you guys forget when the FM guys (shabeb el mousta2bal) used to say : ma mnekol bala ekhwetna bel tayyar
That was after el tanmiya used to distribute food lal campers!
Walla 7aram tenso kel hal chi! Hariri was a criminal?Tayib fine,ma kento tou2afo 7add all the people who support him!
this is the pitfall of FMers...

Those people that went to martyrs' square on March 14 2005 didnt go there "wafa2an lal shaheed", that was the illusion Future Tv created

part of them went there 'wafa2an lal shaheed" but most of them went there to get rid of the Syrians...

when u wake up from the "wafa2an lal shaheed" illusion, then u might understand better the fall off between FPM and FM...

when FM recognize that Lebanon is not Hariristan, and recognizes FPM as an equal partner, then things might change...

until then, keep on weeping...
 

RamitallicA

Legendary Member
Why were you next to the FM after 14feb?
They were next to us, we usually celebrate the 14th of march since 1989 :wink:
Why do you guys forget that FM and FPM were SO close together after 14feb?
We thought that another political movement started to beleive in Lebanon... and they showed us something else!
Did you guys forget when the FM guys (shabeb el mousta2bal) used to say : ma mnekol bala ekhwetna bel tayyar
That was after el tanmiya used to distribute food lal campers!
Walla 7aram tenso kel hal chi!
empty slogan... why? -> Why don't they say it now? :eek: what about the other political parties? lei ma mnekol bala ekhwetna el lebnenieh ? :eek:
Hariri was a criminal? Tayib fine,ma kento tou2afo 7add all the people who support him!
wa7yetak, ana chakhsiyyan ma nzelet la3younak wala la 3youno! ana nzelet kermel 14 adar :wink: (1989's)
 

Ahmad Aown

Active Member
Why were you next to the FM after 14feb?
Why do you guys forget that FM and FPM were SO close together after 14feb?
Did you guys forget when the FM guys (shabeb el mousta2bal) used to say : ma mnekol bala ekhwetna bel tayyar
That was after el tanmiya used to distribute food lal campers!
Walla 7aram tenso kel hal chi! Hariri was a criminal?Tayib fine,ma kento tou2afo 7add all the people who support him!

The Thread Addresses Harriri Senior, Not FMers, As Harriri Misguided a Lot of Lebanese so he did to the FMers. What happened in 14 March 2005 was not in support for Harriri's doings, Rather a spontaneous Reaction from the People, all the People to the Brutality of the Assasination, and a Natural expression for the Strong Tendency for Freedom.
Do not get Mixed up.
What is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong.
The Article Addresses facts, discuss them, do not Divert the topic driven by emotions.
 

Lebanese_uk

Active Member
thank you diablo for posting this.

Hariri isn't as bad as the worst that is said of him but he was far from a saint too.
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
Ya3neh you took advantage of his assasination just to have it your way!
I will never deny that we were the ones who joined you and not the other way around.
As for the food thing, I congratulate you my friend,you understood from me that food was getting us closer? bhannik!
And stop this hypocricy about this why wont we eat with our lebanese brothers? You were the ones who was calling hiziballah terrorist and syrians! And general aoun always said that hiziballah isnt seperated from syria! Now el sayyid is achraf el nass w akram el nass!
As for the ghazi kan3an law! You people shouldve seen what Tele Liban used to have as slogans during the 2000 law : el balad mich machi, inta machi!
And another thing, the 2000law was made to divide hariri's power in beirut! Rafik hariri had a great relation with syria, its true! But it started to go down the hill when lahoud came!
He made mistakes im not sayin he didnt,bas that doesnt mean he was the devil!And enough with this hariristan phobia! khalsouna ba2a! this is pure FPM propaganda! And that we want to neutralise the palestinians! Be sure that we will not neutralise them! And time will tell.

As for changin your minds,believe me I stopped tryin to a long time ago! as you people will only follow what aoun says and does! yalla iza ba3ed kam seneh t7alafo FM and FPM bi sir el ra2is kein sharif just like what is happening with hiziballah! Thats hypocricy!
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
Ya3neh you took advantage of his assasination just to have it your way!
we? or u? who said that we should vote for FM and allies bc voting for the opponents would be voting for the killers? who were the opponents? FPM. who were the allies? HA/Amal/LF/PSP/kataeb.
And stop this hypocricy about this why wont we eat with our lebanese brothers? You were the ones who was calling hiziballah terrorist and syrians!
we never called them terrorists. don't put things in our mouths.

As for the ghazi kan3an law! You people shouldve seen what Tele Liban used to have as slogans during the 2000 law : el balad mich machi, inta machi!
And another thing, the 2000law was made to divide hariri's power in beirut! Rafik hariri had a great relation with syria, its true! But it started to go down the hill when lahoud came!
ghazi ken3an law gave u 72 MPs while u got 1/3 of the lebanese votes.
FPm got 1/3 of the lebanese votes and got 21 MPs.
so we very well know why u demanded the 2005 elections to be under the 2000 law.
He made mistakes im not sayin he didnt,bas that doesnt mean he was the devil!And enough with this hariristan phobia! khalsouna ba2a! this is pure FPM propaganda! And that we want to neutralise the palestinians! Be sure that we will not neutralise them! And time will tell.
Harriristan is becoming a reality. FM is taking over most of the positions in the state institutions.
naturalization of the palestinians is the FM hidden agenda. otherwise, why don't u agree to the demand of GMA when he said that we should put it in the constitution that the naturalization requires the approval of ALL MPs?
And no one said Hariri is the devil. so again don't put things in our mouths.
As for changin your minds,believe me I stopped tryin to a long time ago! as you people will only follow what aoun says and does! yalla iza ba3ed kam seneh t7alafo FM and FPM bi sir el ra2is kein sharif just like what is happening with hiziballah! Thats hypocricy!
lol.
this is how u think, not us.
u made an alliance with HA, and called for the protection of their weapons then backstabbed them.
u were the syrian puppets then turned against them and started calling us the true syrian resistants prosyrians.
so this child's game is not working very much. better move on to a better one.
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
My friend! You cant deny that when you came up with this orange book,alot of christians followed you,because you were 100% against hizib's weapons! I dont know about now!
Other than that, was hassan nassralah charif before your MOU!?
Ass for FM's hidden agenda? Its only propaganda,time will tell,and you'll see!
FM is taking controle of all the state institution! walla! leh hal2ad 3am bi khawfoukon min el FM i have no idea!

Check this:

PAT ROBERTSON: Just think, Lebanon was a model country, a beautiful country, and the Christians elected the president. The Christians have roughly half of the population of Lebanon, it's a little less than 50 percent now. But they are second class citizens, they're being trampled underfoot by the Syrians, and nobody seems to be doing anything about it.
With me is General Michel Aoun who is the former prime minister of Lebanon and the former commander-in-chief of the armed forces. General Aoun, delighted to have you with us on The 700 Club, welcome . Tell me about Hezbollah. We hear about the terrorist group Hezbollah. What relation do they have to Syria?
GENERAL AOUN: Hezbollah is not a separate entity from Syria. It is under the Syrian operational control.
ROBERTSON: The so-called terrorist group is under the operational control of Syria?
AOUN: Yes, 100 percent, no question about that.

YA ACHRAFA EL NASS!! right?

ROBERTSON: What is the danger to world peace? We are engaged in a war on terror and yet the Syrians are in the United Nations Security Council how can that be?
AOUN: It's a big contradiction that we have to solve in the world. Because people, the terrorist regimes, they are still, you know, having good stature in the world. And there are terrorist regimes like Syria that are generating terrorist organizations. Therefore, I propose a plan that first, to disarm the organizations; second, to democratize the regimes; and then to help them to develop their country.

lets go have a cup of tea with this "terrorist regime" to see what they really want! this terrorist regime is out of lebanon for sure right?
 

Observer

Well-Known Member
As for changin your minds,believe me I stopped tryin to a long time ago! as you people will only follow what aoun says and does! yalla iza ba3ed kam seneh t7alafo FM and FPM bi sir el ra2is kein sharif just like what is happening with hiziballah! Thats hypocricy!


I was trying to do the same with harirists so what is your point? I stopped and you will do exactly what hariri is telling you to do some for money and some for power and some for secterian hate and some for other things etc...
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
My friend! You cant deny that when you came up with this orange book,alot of christians followed you,because you were 100% against hizib's weapons! I dont know about now!
Other than that, was hassan nassralah charif before your MOU!?
since when the christians voted for FPm bc they were against HA's weapons? from where did u get this from?
Ass for FM's hidden agenda? Its only propaganda,time will tell,and you'll see!
FM is taking controle of all the state institution! walla! leh hal2ad 3am bi khawfoukon min el FM i have no idea!
no body is making us fear FM. we are seeing it for ourselves.
and about FM's agenda, trully time will tell.
Check this:

PAT ROBERTSON: Just think, Lebanon was a model country, a beautiful country, and the Christians elected the president. The Christians have roughly half of the population of Lebanon, it's a little less than 50 percent now. But they are second class citizens, they're being trampled underfoot by the Syrians, and nobody seems to be doing anything about it.
With me is General Michel Aoun who is the former prime minister of Lebanon and the former commander-in-chief of the armed forces. General Aoun, delighted to have you with us on The 700 Club, welcome . Tell me about Hezbollah. We hear about the terrorist group Hezbollah. What relation do they have to Syria?
GENERAL AOUN: Hezbollah is not a separate entity from Syria. It is under the Syrian operational control.
ROBERTSON: The so-called terrorist group is under the operational control of Syria?
AOUN: Yes, 100 percent, no question about that.

YA ACHRAFA EL NASS!! right?

ROBERTSON: What is the danger to world peace? We are engaged in a war on terror and yet the Syrians are in the United Nations Security Council how can that be?
AOUN: It's a big contradiction that we have to solve in the world. Because people, the terrorist regimes, they are still, you know, having good stature in the world. And there are terrorist regimes like Syria that are generating terrorist organizations. Therefore, I propose a plan that first, to disarm the organizations; second, to democratize the regimes; and then to help them to develop their country.

lets go have a cup of tea with this "terrorist regime" to see what they really want! this terrorist regime is out of lebanon for sure right?
i still haven't seen in the interview where GMA said HA are terrorists. care to show me? And we are still with the disarmement of HA. just read the MOU, or did they brainwash u too about its content?
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
Eh we are a lost case ya observer!
Hariri is giving me money to support him! And giving my family key positions in Lebanon! Its not even worth it to debate with you observer!
As for vegijimbo, pat robertson kept saying the terrorist hiziballah, if aoun doesnt agree with this adjective why didnt he say something? Gheir heik, aoun says that hiziballah is under syrian controle 100%, so all of its choices and actions are from syria! Why are you their allies then? Why are you allying yourself with someone who is 100% under syrian controle?
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
Eh we are a lost case ya observer!
Hariri is giving me money to support him! And giving my family key positions in Lebanon! Its not even worth it to debate with you observer!
As for vegijimbo, pat robertson kept saying the terrorist hiziballah, if aoun doesnt agree with this adjective why didnt he say something? Gheir heik, aoun says that hiziballah is under syrian controle 100%, so all of its choices and actions are from syria! Why are you their allies then? Why are you allying yourself with someone who is 100% under syrian controle?

Perhaps I need to remind you that at the time of the interview, ALL THE RULING BODY in Lebanon was under Syrian control.

BACK THEN, is different than RIGHT NOW... Wella that only applies to FM?
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
As for vegijimbo, pat robertson kept saying the terrorist hiziballah, if aoun doesnt agree with this adjective why didnt he say something? Gheir heik, aoun says that hiziballah is under syrian controle 100%, so all of its choices and actions are from syria! Why are you their allies then? Why are you allying yourself with someone who is 100% under syrian controle?

GMA never said HA is a terrorist organisation and everyone knows it.
now about the HA under syrian control, that's what the MOU was for, to remove them from this utter control by Syria. if u read the MOU, u will see what i'm talking about. FPM is working to remove HA from this satellite position to Syria. the MOU was the first step. At the end, HAers are lebanese ppl like u and me. And labeling them will do nothing but aggrevate the situation.

FM and PSP were under syrian influence 100% during the past 15 years. once Hariri was assassinated, we decided to put everything behind us, and we dealt with u as lebanese partners. however u managed to screw everything up, but that's not the point here. So when GMA decided to deal with all parties and decided not to judge them for their past, this also applied to HA. So when we made an MOU with HA, it was not from the context of a syrian satellite party, but from a lebanese pary perspective, the same way we dealt with u after 14 feb 2005. So now why do u accept something in ur regards and not in others'? were u better than HA during the syrian occupation days? i don't think so.
So once u start dealing with ur opponents as possible future lebanese partners, many problems will disappear instantly.
 

Observer

Well-Known Member
Eh we are a lost case ya observer!
Hariri is giving me money to support him! And giving my family key positions in Lebanon! Its not even worth it to debate with you observer!
As for vegijimbo, pat robertson kept saying the terrorist hiziballah, if aoun doesnt agree with this adjective why didnt he say something? Gheir heik, aoun says that hiziballah is under syrian controle 100%, so all of its choices and actions are from syria! Why are you their allies then? Why are you allying yourself with someone who is 100% under syrian controle?

I never said you yourself get money nor position. You just want to avoid the argument so you jumped on my statement and claimed I am accusing you. yes most harirists are a lost case. Every now and then a leader appear and beirutis walk like a herd of cheaps behind him. You know that harir is no better than anybody else. you know that all this talk about freedom etc.. is all lip service. you know that they are all a bunch of liars. you claim you want jerusalem back you claim you are with the arab causes you claim you sympathize with iraqis and palestinians yet you know that hariri and sanyoura are nothing but US puppets. Are you telling me that harirists are not a lost case when they say "المحكمة بالنسبة لنا قبل رغيف الخبز؟ and you tell me that you are not a lost case?
 
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