A rare critical look at Rafiq Hariri that you rarely see in the Western press

Dima2ouna.

Member
GMA never said HA is a terrorist organisation and everyone knows it.
now about the HA under syrian control, that's what the MOU was for, to remove them from this utter control by Syria. if u read the MOU, u will see what i'm talking about. FPM is working to remove HA from this satellite position to Syria. the MOU was the first step. At the end, HAers are lebanese ppl like u and me. And labeling them will do nothing but aggrevate the situation.

FM and PSP were under syrian influence 100% during the past 15 years. once Hariri was assassinated, we decided to put everything behind us, and we dealt with u as lebanese partners. however u managed to screw everything up, but that's not the point here. So when GMA decided to deal with all parties and decided not to judge them for their past, this also applied to HA. So when we made an MOU with HA, it was not from the context of a syrian satellite party, but from a lebanese pary perspective, the same way we dealt with u after 14 feb 2005. So now why do u accept something in ur regards and not in others'? were u better than HA during the syrian occupation days? i don't think so.
So once u start dealing with ur opponents as possible future lebanese partners, many problems will disappear instantly.

So the syrians had no say in this MOU, and didnt know about the MOU and hiziballah acted alone when you two were having discussions about it!?
the MOU shows that hiziballah isnt under syrian controle? hows that?
Care to tell me what has this MOU accomplished?

The thing is that we joined you with your battle against syria, hiziballah didnt,and still consider it souriya el asad! wal wafa2 li souriya el asad! Come on man,you know this alliance is based on nothing,and it doesnt even make sense! (i wont talk about SSNP,Baath,Marada etc..Because the opposition is FPM+Hizib)
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
I never said you yourself get money nor position. You just want to avoid the argument so you jumped on my statement and claimed I am accusing you. yes most harirists are a lost case. Every now and then a leader appear and beirutis walk like a herd of cheaps behind him. You know that harir is no better than anybody else. you know that all this talk about freedom etc.. is all lip service. you know that they are all a bunch of liars. you claim you want jerusalem back you claim you are with the arab causes you claim you sympathize with iraqis and palestinians yet you know that hariri and sanyoura are nothing but US puppets. Are you telling me that harirists are not a lost case when they say "المحكمة بالنسبة لنا قبل رغيف الخبز؟ and you tell me that you are not a lost case?


When you say all does this include hassan nassralah aoun berri franjiyeh geagea joumblat gemayel?

Now about the arab cause? to hell with the arab cause,and to hell with the palestinian cause! thats my OWN point of you! This israelo-arab war is nonsense,most of the arab countries dumped this cause,and its only fought in our land in the name of allah,syria,iran wal "ommma".I refuse that!
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
and what's the difference concerning FM too? the only difference is replacing the syrian master-puppetry with an american one.

Fi masali7 btejma3na sawa! We are not the U.S allies nor its puppets! unlike some other parties who declare their full allegiance and loyalty and alliance (military or politically wise) to Syria.
 

Observer

Well-Known Member
When you say all does this include hassan nassralah aoun berri franjiyeh geagea joumblat gemayel?

Now about the arab cause? to hell with the arab cause,and to hell with the palestinian cause! thats my OWN point of you! This israelo-arab war is nonsense,most of the arab countries dumped this cause,and its only fought in our land in the name of allah,syria,iran wal "ommma".I refuse that!


You got me wrong. I do not care whatever happens to hizb or nasrullah. they dug themselves up in this hole. they gave hariri and his ilks the majority and now they are in this deep hole asking to be helped. So i do not care about them and I am in no way going to support the hizb. So do not play on this string... please.


And no. The arabs never dumped this cause. Hariri convinced you that they did but they never did. Walk in the streets of beirut, damascus, cairo, tripoly, algeria, rabat, mecca, masqat and ask them about palestine and check back here and write down their answers. It is all a lie propagated by hariri media that the arab dropped this cause, just to convince their followers that it is good to be a US puppet. Did they forget about Iraq? Arabs from all over the countries are coming to Iraq to fight so how could they ever forget Jerusalem? Din't I tell you that harirists are lost ?
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
that's what u used to say regarding Syria the past 15 years.

Look my friend, do you want me to talk to you as ME (an FM supporter who has some point of view different from other FMers) or like a blind FMer?
I believe when you say "you" you mean FM.
let me tell you something, i was against the fact that rafik hariri works with syria, but that was the only way he can get some of his plans done! Needless to say,they didnt let him do alot of projects! And the second he was part of the opposiotion they assasinated him! Now I hope you still think that syria killed him and not Israel/USA! (i dont wanna get into this,as most FPMers now have their doubts about the assasination:al mawtou li amrika!)
 

basma88

Active Member
So the syrians had no say in this MOU, and didnt know about the MOU and hiziballah acted alone when you two were having discussions about it!?
the MOU shows that hiziballah isnt under syrian controle? hows that?
Care to tell me what has this MOU accomplished?

The thing is that we joined you with your battle against syria, hiziballah didnt,and still consider it souriya el asad! wal wafa2 li souriya el asad! Come on man,you know this alliance is based on nothing,and it doesnt even make sense! (i wont talk about SSNP,Baath,Marada etc..Because the opposition is FPM+Hizib)

you are attacking HA because they are allies of syria... And you have all the right to do that...
But to be fair;you have to attack harriri and sanyoura ;the big puppets of america.....
ma 7adan a7ssan men 7adan...
FM was the puppet of syria...
And now FM decide to change the side from syrian puppets to american puppets...
And for me syria and america adrab men ba3don.....
Be fair my friend....no one in 14 march is better from HA....All of them are puppets to bush and condi...
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
You got me wrong. I do not care whatever happens to hizb or nasrullah. they dug themselves up in this hole. they gave hariri and his ilks the majority and now they are in this deep hole asking to be helped. So i do not care about them and I am in no way going to support the hizb. So do not play on this string... please

Im not playing on a string or a game! It was a simple question, does "all" include all of our political leaders, or only the march14 leaders?? It was simple yes or no question!
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
you are attacking HA because they are allies of syria... And you have all the right to do that...
But to be fair;you have to attack harriri and sanyoura ;the big puppets of america.....
ma 7adan a7ssan men 7adan...
FM was the puppet of syria...
And now FM decide to change the side from syrian puppets to american puppets...
And for me syria and america adrab men ba3don.....
Be fair my friend....no one in 14 march is better from HA....All of them are puppets to bush and condi...

The US were against to have berri as the speaker of the house! Nevertheless FM voted for berri (the biggest mistake they ever done! I was so mad when they voted for them,and was dissaapointed,and backed and still backing in this issue LF+FPM)
So FM did something the US didnt want, on the other hand, hiziballah would never do something Syria doesnt agree on. right?
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
let me tell you something, i was against the fact that rafik hariri works with syria, but that was the only way he can get some of his plans done!
riiiight. the usual excuse: he was working against them from within the system.
and can u tell me what were these plans?
Needless to say,they didnt let him do alot of projects! And the second he was part of the opposiotion they assasinated him!
who are they they? Syria? got proof?
part of the opposition? which one? in 2005, there were 2 oppositions. so which is it? the fake one (loyal to Khaddam) or the real one (loyal to Lebanon)?
Now I hope you still think that syria killed him and not Israel/USA!
i have doubts for USA, Syria, and Israel. All 3 countries might have done it.
but i see no real gain for the syrians from his assassination, so i give the USA and Israel a higher percentage of being behind it.
(i dont wanna get into this,as most FPMers now have their doubts about the assasination:al mawtou li amrika!)
what do u mean by this? and what does "al mawto li amrica" have to do with it? a cheap shot against FPMers & HA or what? i thought u weren't like other FMers. so what happened?
 

Observer

Well-Known Member
Im not playing on a string or a game! It was a simple question, does "all" include all of our political leaders, or only the march14 leaders?? It was simple yes or no question!

I was directing my rethoric to harirists saying that they know that their leaders are bunch of liars and so on ..... so when I said all I mean the harirists leaders and not jumblat and ge3ge3 and others from the opposite side. Not that I am clearing them but since you insist then all means harirists leaders.

you avoided all this "
And no. The arabs never dumped this cause. Hariri convinced you that they did but they never did. Walk in the streets of beirut, damascus, cairo, tripoly, algeria, rabat, mecca, masqat and ask them about palestine and check back here and write down their answers. It is all a lie propagated by hariri media that the arab dropped this cause, just to convince their followers that it is good to be a US puppet. Did they forget about Iraq? Arabs from all over the countries are coming to Iraq to fight so how could they ever forget Jerusalem? Din't I tell you that harirists are lost ?" and you just want me to say that all politicians are liars. Fine.. and I thought you really wanted to debate the issue
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
The US were against to have berri as the speaker of the house! Nevertheless FM voted for berri (the biggest mistake they ever done! I was so mad when they voted for them,and was dissaapointed,and backed and still backing in this issue LF+FPM)
So FM did something the US didnt want, on the other hand, hiziballah would never do something Syria doesnt agree on. right?

so the US was against the quadrule alliance too with HA and Amal? a statement from Filtmen back in 2005 says otherwise.
So FM didn't do anything the US didn't agree on.
 

basma88

Active Member
The US were against to have berri as the speaker of the house! Nevertheless FM voted for berri (the biggest mistake they ever done! I was so mad when they voted for them,and was dissaapointed,and backed and still backing in this issue LF+FPM)
So FM did something the US didnt want, on the other hand, hiziballah would never do something Syria doesnt agree on. right?

HA allied himself with WJ and SJ and harriri.....I don't think that syria wanted from HA to ally with those people....

And don't fool yourself when you say that FM did something that US didn't want...Because 14 march planned for all that...they allied with HA to take the majority ;and then they left him behind....
America told them to ally with HA (the big terririst) just to take the majority....

Junmblat and all the others when they allied with HA; we heard them saying that the mokawameh will liberate jerusalem.....But when they take the majority ;they attacked HA...tfeeeehhhh...

You know;the big mistake was when HA accepted to ally with traitors such jonmbi and ga3ga3 and harriri....Maybe the hizib deserve that;...It will be a big lesson for him..they learned to never ally themselves with criminals and traitors like 14 march's leaders...
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
riiiight. the usual excuse: he was working against them from within the system.
and can u tell me what were these plans?

who are they they? Syria? got proof?
part of the opposition? which one? in 2005, there were 2 oppositions. so which is it? the fake one (loyal to Khaddam) or the real one (loyal to Lebanon)?

i have doubts for USA, Syria, and Israel. All 3 countries might have done it.
but i see no real gain for the syrians from his assassination, so i give the USA and Israel a higher percentage of being behind it.

what do u mean by this? and what does "al mawto li amrica" have to do with it? a cheap shot against FPMers & HA or what? i thought u weren't like other FMers. so what happened?

You (FPMers in general ok?) never had your doubts about who is behind the assasination,but after you allied yourselves with hiziballah, you started with your al mawto li amrika ideology! (Aoun kept workin with USA for 15 years to pass projects right?)

And man, I never said he was working against them within the system,i told you he worked with them! He had good relations till lahoud came! I already said that!
And Hariri was part of the opposition that Aoun backed! enough with this kind of talkin, why is everything that hariri does is something wrong? I dont get it!
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
HA allied himself with WJ and SJ and harriri.....I don't think that syria wanted from HA to ally with those people....

And don't fool yourself when you say that FM did something that US didn't want...Because 14 march planned for all that...they allied with HA to take the majority ;and then they left him behind....
America told them to ally with HA (the big terririst) just to take the majority....

Junmblat and all the others when they allied with HA; we heard them saying that the mokawameh will liberate jerusalem.....But when they take the majority ;they attacked HA...tfeeeehhhh...

You know;the big mistake was when HA accepted to ally with traitors such jonmbi and ga3ga3 and harriri....Maybe the hizib deserve that;...It will be a big lesson for him..they learned to never ally themselves with criminals and traitors like 14 march's leaders...


Its funny how you people,who were always accused of being israeli agents and traitors, are now using the same vocabulary as hiziballah's. Allah ydim el wefe2.
 

Dima2ouna.

Member
I was directing my rethoric to harirists saying that they know that their leaders are bunch of liars and so on ..... so when I said all I mean the harirists leaders and not jumblat and ge3ge3 and others from the opposite side. Not that I am clearing them but since you insist then all means harirists leaders.

you avoided all this "
And no. The arabs never dumped this cause. Hariri convinced you that they did but they never did. Walk in the streets of beirut, damascus, cairo, tripoly, algeria, rabat, mecca, masqat and ask them about palestine and check back here and write down their answers. It is all a lie propagated by hariri media that the arab dropped this cause, just to convince their followers that it is good to be a US puppet. Did they forget about Iraq? Arabs from all over the countries are coming to Iraq to fight so how could they ever forget Jerusalem? Din't I tell you that harirists are lost ?" and you just want me to say that all politicians are liars. Fine.. and I thought you really wanted to debate the issue


I actually quoted your whole post and didnt see the next part,its weird! did you edit ur post later?

And please man ,just drop the haririst phobia, if theres a earthquake your gonna put on hariri's shoulder! now you talk to me about propagated stories by hariri media, ya khayeh did you listen to nader el nakib on kalem el ness when he said that a big part of the sunnite still believe in the arab cause. I (me,moi,ana) Dont believe in the arab cause,fiya shi?Khayeh el felestiniyeh elli 3ana what are they doing to reutrn home?nothing! why should we pay for them? we were already into this palestinaian cause during the "civil war" and we got nothing!
Now to be brainwashed i would have to watch FTV news,which i dont, or read the Future newspaper,which I dont! I read annahar (and spare me your comments on annahar) and LBC (which is not LFBC,I find it to be the most moedareted news in lebanon)
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
You (FPMers in general ok?) never had your doubts about who is behind the assasination,but after you allied yourselves with hiziballah, you started with your al mawto li amrika ideology! (Aoun kept workin with USA for 15 years to pass projects right?)
who told u that? now u know what we were thinking too? shou telepathy? lol
at least for my sake, i thought it was the Mossad or CIA from day one, bc the assassination required jamming the bomb detectors in RH's convoy and Syria doesn't have such advanced equipment.
And man, I never said he was working against them within the system,i told you he worked with them! He had good relations till lahoud came! I already said that!
so what is this: "but that was the only way he can get some of his plans done"?

And Hariri was part of the opposition that Aoun backed!
backed? u mean "started".
enough with this kind of talkin, why is everything that hariri does is something wrong? I dont get it!
bc he was never doing it for the 4500000 lebanese. he was a thief and a greedy man who was a syrian puppet till the day he died. And by being loyal to khaddam instead of the syrian regime led by Assad doesn't make him any better.
and how come the Hariri family wealth jumped from 4 billion $ to 16.7 billion$ in just one year?
 

Observer

Well-Known Member
I actually quoted your whole post and didnt see the next part,its weird! did you edit ur post later?

I am sorry. yes I did.

And please man ,just drop the haririst phobia, if theres a earthquake your gonna put on hariri's shoulder! now you talk to me about propagated stories by hariri media, ya khayeh did you listen to nader el nakib on kalem el ness when he said that a big part of the sunnite still believe in the arab cause. I (me,moi,ana) Dont believe in the arab cause,fiya shi?Khayeh el felestiniyeh elli 3ana what are they doing to reutrn home?nothing! why should we pay for them? we were already into this palestinaian cause during the "civil war" and we got nothing!
Now to be brainwashed i would have to watch FTV news,which i dont, or read the Future newspaper,which I dont! I read annahar (and spare me your comments on annahar) and LBC (which is not LFBC,I find it to be the most moedareted news in lebanon)

Nadir naqib can say whatever he wants but this is the hariri propaganda and actually it is in the heart of his partners rethoric that the arab gave up on their causes. What do you think the reason for this "I love life" propaganda? Wallahi you are masakin. Wallahi you are i.e beirutis haririrts.

I am not going to answer your remaning questions because I also gave up on this thread for now....
 
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