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an old demand reopened : Hadath municipality doesnt allow muslims to buy, rent properties

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  • HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Copts are 'protected' by Muslims from other Muslims who wanna kill them. They have it so easy, they must feel really 'protected' indeed.
    theya arent
    they are killing a dozen per month and taking over their lands and churches one bite at a time
     
    NAFAR

    NAFAR

    Legendary Member
    Anyone who is critisizing Al Hadath municipality decision is either a simple good heart idealist or a hateful demon with agenda....as the leftist abu ammar orphins.
    Any one think we have pure christian/shiite/sunnite/druze villages and towns all over lebanon since hundred of years just by coincidence?.... come on the issue don't need debate its so obvious.
    This media prostitution is unbeleivable?‍♂
     
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    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Make a fund and buy off people who want to sell... talk to people and convince them to stay or sell to you (as in the fund setup by I’m guessing the church or the people worries about their demographics)... for example
    You are talking about groups and demographics yet you are discriminating against individuals... your friends who are Muslim and whom you would love to have as neighbors, have a right to purchase property near you, in your town and wherever they want.

    Funny you should bring up nazism, what you are argumentons FOR is quite fascist :)
    Have you ever lived in Egypt? I have... the Copts are targeted by extremist filth, and they are protected by the state of guess who, mostly Muslims...!

    Dakhilkoun this overdone drama has got to stop. You have beef with Islam as a religion, I’m not going to argue because it has been regurgitated a gazillion times on this forum. But don’t tell me it’s ok to strip Lebanese citizens of their basic right of ownership in lebanon, because they are Muslim.

    Once again, there are options, without discriminating, to hold on to your heritage, my heritage, without losing your soul.
    I am not going to extend this conversation needlessly. I've been on this forum long enough to know that it's futile to do so. I'll just leave you with two thoughts.

    If you think it brings me joy to say the things I say, or that I am trying to be right at any cost, the opposite is the truth. The reality of the matter makes me sad and I wish things were different. But I am no longer the naive child who mistakes her wishes for reality.

    The person liking your posts in this thread passed himself off, for years, as a soft-spoken, secular, fan of Western philosophy and literature. Until the shocking day when he claimed Lebanese Christians are enemies allied with the Church of Rome, that they better watch out before they end up like the rest of Middle Eastern Christians, and that Armenians are traitors for standing up to Turkey.

    You want to let your humanistic ideals override the reality that not everyone is as good-natured as you are? Be my guest. I did the same, in the past. No longer.

    The day you stop projecting your state of mind on others, and realize that evil truly exists, you will be in for a shock, and there will be no turning back for you, either.
     
    loubnaniTO

    loubnaniTO

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    some 75 years ago, the Christians thought that by taking the Presidency they will be protected and their fears of Islam would be alleviated... the 60s and the war in 1975 proved it wrong.

    I wonder if today the Hadath rule (and other similar rules) are the solution.
    I understand the fear by Christians (and by many muslims as well), especially when seeing how other municipalities are using the Shariaa to implement municipal laws, but will restricting non-Christians today from buying/renting in Christian areas provide such protection? and for how long?
    Will such extreme decisions lead to counter-extreme decisions by others?
    Are there better solutions that ensure freedoms and protection from religious rules? maybe federalism? maybe a new constitution that GUARANTEES freedoms?
    i just don't see how such decisions could last or provide a long term solution.
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    some 75 years ago, the Christians thought that by taking the Presidency they will be protected and their fears of Islam would be alleviated... the 60s and the war in 1975 proved it wrong.

    I wonder if today the Hadath rule (and other similar rules) are the solution.
    I understand the fear by Christians (and by many muslims as well), especially when seeing how other municipalities are using the Shariaa to implement municipal laws, but will restricting non-Christians today from buying/renting in Christian areas provide such protection? and for how long?
    Will such extreme decisions lead to counter-extreme decisions by others?
    Are there better solutions that ensure freedoms and protection from religious rules? maybe federalism? maybe a new constitution that GUARANTEES freedoms?
    i just don't see how such decisions could last or provide a long term solution.
    Federalism is the only way
    Coexistence is a myth, a lie
    This country will never function in its current state
    and it's not just about freedoms, people simply do not want to live together

    Political parties need to start calling for Federalism, now before it's too late
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    some 75 years ago, the Christians thought that by taking the Presidency they will be protected and their fears of Islam would be alleviated... the 60s and the war in 1975 proved it wrong.

    I wonder if today the Hadath rule (and other similar rules) are the solution.
    I understand the fear by Christians (and by many muslims as well), especially when seeing how other municipalities are using the Shariaa to implement municipal laws, but will restricting non-Christians today from buying/renting in Christian areas provide such protection? and for how long?
    Will such extreme decisions lead to counter-extreme decisions by others?
    Are there better solutions that ensure freedoms and protection from religious rules? maybe federalism? maybe a new constitution that GUARANTEES freedoms?
    i just don't see how such decisions could last or provide a long term solution.
    The municipality decision is definitely not comprehensive enough to safeguard the Christians of Lebanon. It's a simple measure to temporarily protect one municipality from takeover and demographic change.

    I think everyone recognizes this. What we are arguing is not that the measure is the perfect solution; rather, that the motivations behind it are not based on sectarian hatred but on justified worries regarding self-preservation.
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    some 75 years ago, the Christians thought that by taking the Presidency they will be protected and their fears of Islam would be alleviated... the 60s and the war in 1975 proved it wrong.

    I wonder if today the Hadath rule (and other similar rules) are the solution.
    I understand the fear by Christians (and by many muslims as well), especially when seeing how other municipalities are using the Shariaa to implement municipal laws, but will restricting non-Christians today from buying/renting in Christian areas provide such protection? and for how long?
    Will such extreme decisions lead to counter-extreme decisions by others?
    Are there better solutions that ensure freedoms and protection from religious rules? maybe federalism? maybe a new constitution that GUARANTEES freedoms?
    i just don't see how such decisions could last or provide a long term solution.
    Since surely Muslims reject federalism, what Hadath municipality did is an indirect form of federalism.
     
    Mockinggbird

    Mockinggbird

    New Member
    Federalism is the only way
    Coexistence is a myth, a lie
    This country will never function in its current state
    and it's not just about freedoms, people simply do not want to live together

    Political parties need to start calling for Federalism, now before it's too late
    The Hadath incident should be the starting of a pro federalism campaign
    It’s now or never
    We can’t wait longer since the demographic balance will be seriously tipped in 10-15 years from now
    A federal lebanon can be formed on a regional rather than sectarian basis with regions having overwhelming majorities
    The same way the 2018 election districts were formed
    This is the only way to preserve a political and demographic presence for Christians in Lebanon
    No one would be asked to leave his native village or home
    It’s just a form of governance
    Army central bank and foreign policy will remain as is
    The state will be lighter and much more agile
    Budget of the regions will kill all possibility of corruption since sectarianism will have less influence
    In short the competition will be transformed to become a positive one between the Lebanese states
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The Hadath incident should be the starting of a pro federalism campaign
    It’s now or never
    We can’t wait longer since the demographic balance will be seriously tipped in 10-15 years from now
    A federal lebanon can be formed on a regional rather than sectarian basis with regions having overwhelming majorities
    The same way the 2018 election districts were formed
    This is the only way to preserve a political and demographic presence for Christians in Lebanon
    No one would be asked to leave his native village or home
    It’s just a form of governance
    Army central bank and foreign policy will remain as is
    The state will be lighter and much more agile
    Budget of the regions will kill all possibility of corruption since sectarianism will have less influence
    In short the competition will be transformed to become a positive one between the Lebanese states
    First things first
    I think a Federal project will be put on the table once the refugees are out

    Refugees are a big obstacle
    And i can already foresee a huge debate on how to deal with refugees in a federal Lebanon
     
    TayyarBeino

    TayyarBeino

    Legendary Member
    رئيس بلدية الحدت تعليقاً على وضع علم حركة أمل على سور البلدية عبر النشرة: عمل صبياني لا أكثر
    الاثنين ٢٤ حزيران ٢٠١٩ 17:36قضاء وأمن

    رئيس بلدية الحدت تعليقاً على وضع علم حركة أمل على سور البلدية عبر النشرة: عمل صبياني لا أكثر



    انتشر على مواقع التواصل الإجتماعي صورة لعلم حركة "أمل" على سور مبنى المجلس البلدية في الحدت.
    وفي حديث مع "النشرة"، أكد رئيس البلدية جورج عون أن شخصين على دراجة نارية أقدما، عند الساعة الرابعة من بعد ظهر اليوم، على تعليق علم "حركة أمل" على سور البلدية ثم التقطا صورة، لافتاً أن أحد عناصر الشرطة اقترب منهما لكنهما غادرا المكان بسرعة.

    ورفض عون إعتبار ما حصل بمثابة رسالة إلى البلدية، مؤكداً أنه لا يتلقى رسالة بهذه الطريقة، وبالتالي لا يمكن أن يعلق على رسالة "صبيانية"، قائلاً: "ليأتيا غداً إلى البلدية خلال الدوام الرسمي وأنا التقط صورة معهما".
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I am not going to extend this conversation needlessly. I've been on this forum long enough to know that it's futile to do so. I'll just leave you with two thoughts.

    If you think it brings me joy to say the things I say, or that I am trying to be right at any cost, the opposite is the truth. The reality of the matter makes me sad and I wish things were different. But I am no longer the naive child who mistakes her wishes for reality.

    The person liking your posts in this thread passed himself off, for years, as a soft-spoken, secular, fan of Western philosophy and literature. Until the shocking day when he claimed Lebanese Christians are enemies allied with the Church of Rome, that they better watch out before they end up like the rest of Middle Eastern Christians, and that Armenians are traitors for standing up to Turkey.

    You want to let your humanistic ideals override the reality that not everyone is as good-natured as you are? Be my guest. I did the same, in the past. No longer.

    The day you stop projecting your state of mind on others, and realize that evil truly exists, you will be in for a shock, and there will be no turning back for you, either.
    I enjoy debating with you because you are respectful regardless of the fact that we don’t always agree. So thank you for an adult conversation.

    I really hope we can build a fair state in lebanon one day, with all citizens, of all sects, equal under a civil law that respects diversity and cracks down on lawlessness.
     
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    There's one aspect to this worth to be taken seriously into consideration: what do we do with muslims who seek to live in Christian neighborhoods for the only reason they actually prefer the way of life in those neighborhoods and dislike living in muslim majority areas?
    "Ya khayye ne7na men7ebkoun, we love your emancipated way of conducting your lives, your permissive dress codes, easy access to Almaza and Johnny Walker in the grocery store at everry corner, your discos and night life and also parler francais, wawawa wawawa.."
    What shall we tell those?
    Should we ask them to convert, thus increase the Christian population's quota? Or no, ma fi majel abadan? Once muslim always misfit and incompatible as member in a Christian Lebanese neighborhood?
    How do we tackle this aspect in a future federal Lebanese state?
     
    Mockinggbird

    Mockinggbird

    New Member
    There's one aspect to this worth to be taken seriously into consideration: what do we do with muslims who seek to live in Christian neighborhoods for the only reason they actually prefer the way of life in those neighborhoods and dislike living in muslim majority areas?
    "Ya khayye ne7na men7ebkoun, we love your emancipated way of conducting your lives, your permissive dress codes, easy access to Almaza and Johnny Walker in the grocery store at everry corner, your discos and night life and also parler francais, wawawa wawawa.."
    What shall we tell those?
    Should we ask them to convert, thus increase the Christian population's quota? Or no, ma fi majel abadan? Once muslim always misfit and incompatible as member in a Christian Lebanese neighborhood?
    How do we tackle this aspect in a future federal Lebanese state?
    These are a super tiny minority and you should not distort the image that these are the majority of people
    The best thing you can do is stay where you are born and try to change your society from within and make it more modern and open minded, tolerant and peace loving
    Then you can come to Christian areas and have a glass of whiskey ?
    Cheers
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    I enjoy debating with you because you are respectful regardless of the fact that we don’t always agree. So thank you for an adult conversation.

    I really hope we can build a fair state in lebanon one day, with all citizens, of all sects, equal under a civil law that respects diversity and cracks down on lawlessness.

    What diversity? Lebanon really used to be a diverse and pluralistic country, now it's just becoming an Iraq 2.0. Basically Shias/Sunnis multiplying like [], while the Christians are becoming the next Assyrians, and Druze the next Yazidis.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    These are a super tiny minority and you should not distort the image that these are the majority of people
    The best thing you can do is stay where you are born and try to change your society from within and make it more modern and open minded, tolerant and peace loving
    Then you can come to Christian areas and have a glass of whiskey ?
    Cheers
    I don't have a counter, and yes they could be a tiny minority. And if they manage to turn their society into an equally modern and open minded tolerant one, visiting you would become obsolete. They'd have all the enjoyable pleasures at arms length w ma ba2a elak 3azeh. But that takes time you know, most likely generations with the current trend.

    In the meantime however, what do you do you with this category? Not that it's an acute toothache problem you need to solve urgently, but as an interesting reflection. I do notice a clear problem here however: how do we know these people are genuinely interested in integration and assimilation inside the Christian society, and are not intruding invaders in sheep clothing?:oops:

    To that I've already masterminded a plan: we open emigration offices to Christian areas in muslim districts. Applicants will have to fill in forms and get thoroughly interrogated to decide their suitability. We ask cunning questions and try to dig deep into their layers in order to discover ulterior motives behind their move. We examine their looks, dressing and bank accounts. We tell them to sign on papers where they commit to return back from where they come if they break any of our code of life conduct. We offer them the opportunity to convert as an extra bonus, after 10 successful years without bad remarks. Wein baddoun yehrbo?:cigar:
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    There's one aspect to this worth to be taken seriously into consideration: what do we do with muslims who seek to live in Christian neighborhoods for the only reason they actually prefer the way of life in those neighborhoods and dislike living in muslim majority areas?
    "Ya khayye ne7na men7ebkoun, we love your emancipated way of conducting your lives, your permissive dress codes, easy access to Almaza and Johnny Walker in the grocery store at everry corner, your discos and night life and also parler francais, wawawa wawawa.."
    What shall we tell those?
    Should we ask them to convert, thus increase the Christian population's quota? Or no, ma fi majel abadan? Once muslim always misfit and incompatible as member in a Christian Lebanese neighborhood?
    How do we tackle this aspect in a future federal Lebanese state?
    Every time such conversations take place, I ask myself this exact question, as well as other questions similar to it. I have not found an answer or a solution that can be implemented politically.

    As long as people believe it is their duty to islamize the world, others will struggle, including the minority of Muslims who do not espouse such views.
     
    S

    Saj

    New Member
    Muslims were inevitably going to move into Christian towns in the east and mountain towns closest to Beirut. The Lebanese economy is centered in Beirut. No one is graduating from college and then pursuing a career in Nabatieh, Bint Jbeil, Hermel, Akkar. Most of the career-oriented jobs are in and around Beirut.

    Now, the dilemma: 2-3 million Muslims do not fit in Beirut. Dahieh is already at overcapacity for over a decade now. I remember reading that 97% of developable land in Dahieh is fully developed. That’s massive and very dense. Where are these people in our generation and future generation going to move? One kid gets his parents’ apartment, but the rest have to go elsewhere. There is not much left to buy in Muslim areas, except for the multi million dollar apartments in Beirut which obviously most cannot afford. Their birthrates have stabilized in the last 20 years but that doesn’t mean that 3 million people can fit in Beirut and Dahieh. The problem is the territory that surrounds Beirut and Dahieh is almost entirely Christian. A Shia from Qana is not commuting to Beirut and back every day for work, so he has to move there. And with the low supply in Muslim areas proportionate to their population, they are going to the eastern suburbs. A Muslim from a northern or southern mountain may want similar climate, so he’ll move to a small town in Metn because he does not like the feel of a large humid city and is used to a breeze in the morning and night.

    If you want Muslims to stop moving into Christian areas, promote policies that encourage economic growth outside of Beirut’s metropolitan area. This keeps Muslims from having to migrate to Beirut from the other regions as they’d have non-agricultural opportunities in their home regions, and also helps Christians stay in their towns in the north, Bekaa, south too. I am less concerned about Hazmieh eventually being 30% Muslim than I am about the decreasing Christian presence in Akkar or east Saida or the villages in Bint Jbeil. A Muslim who takes issue with alcohol or is a conservative sectarian isn’t the type of Muslim moving to Hazmieh anyway. The Muslims moving to east Beirut areas are Muslims who want to raise their kids around Christians and around what is perceived to be Christian social culture. A wilyayet al faqih-supporting Shia or salafi Sunni is not trying to buy an apartment in Mansourieh or any predominantly Christian area anyway.
     
    R

    Ralph N

    Well-Known Member
    some 75 years ago, the Christians thought that by taking the Presidency they will be protected and their fears of Islam would be alleviated... the 60s and the war in 1975 proved it wrong.

    I wonder if today the Hadath rule (and other similar rules) are the solution.
    I understand the fear by Christians (and by many muslims as well), especially when seeing how other municipalities are using the Shariaa to implement municipal laws, but will restricting non-Christians today from buying/renting in Christian areas provide such protection? and for how long?
    Will such extreme decisions lead to counter-extreme decisions by others?
    Are there better solutions that ensure freedoms and protection from religious rules? maybe federalism? maybe a new constitution that GUARANTEES freedoms?
    i just don't see how such decisions could last or provide a long term solution.
    What would happen if we didnt have the Presidency? more pressure more...more pressure more violations...
     
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