Are American Court Orders Enforceable in Lebanon: Lebanon Hands Over its Citizens to a Foreign Country

[JustLeb]

The issue is not about the family dispute, that unfortunately for the kids who become victims;
the issue here that if a powerful country issues an arrest warrant against any lebanese, the lebanese authorities will arrest him and ship him to that country without giving him the opportunity to fight the extradition.
if you are not seeing the problem, then this is a big PROBLEM.

I am not discussing who should get the custody of the boy, I don't care...

 

[JustLeb]

@Indie bit7ebbe hal 2osas...ta3e feshe khel2ik plz.

 

[Rafidi]

When the perspective of Abass Ibrahim using force to strip his child from his mother and taking custody from the mother is related, and now this father extradited to the US because he took custody of his child from the American mom, this is a case whereby our govt is plainly saying: Yahoqqo lil amerikiyyah ma la yahoqqo lil-Lubnaniyah.

PS: don't mention the father violated American custody law. If he hadn't had the impression that the law in his own country (Lebanon) gives him right of custody over his child, he won't have chosen to flee with the kid to Lebanon of all countries.

The main problem here is the way in which our govt went ahead to hand over its citizens to another govt. Shame and scandalous!

 

[JustLeb]

US threatens to arrest ICC judges if they pursue Americans for Afghan war crimes

US threatens to arrest ICC judges if they pursue Americans for Afghan war crimes

The United States threatened Monday to arrest and sanction judges and other officials of the International Criminal Court if it moves to charge any American who served in Afghanistan with war crimes.

www.france24.com

bkhsous el karameh el sha3eb el3anid... no comment

 

[Rafidi]

US threatens to arrest ICC judges if they pursue Americans for Afghan war crimes

US threatens to arrest ICC judges if they pursue Americans for Afghan war crimes

The United States threatened Monday to arrest and sanction judges and other officials of the International Criminal Court if it moves to charge any American who served in Afghanistan with war crimes.

www.france24.com

bkhsous el karameh el sha3eb el3anid... no comment

3ahd el zol wol izlal!

 

[SeaAb]

3ahd el zol wol izlal!

First it's Bassil's fault and now GMA's tenure is that of 2izlal? I'm glad you're showing your true colors. You're not fooling anyone with your fake sudden rush of 'patriotism' and 'independence'. The only party in Lebanon that doesn't follow or listen to an external country is FPM. w elak 3en tefta7 hal mawdoo3 kamen? Ta2 shersh l 7aya! #JabalBaabda

 

[JustLeb]

First it's Bassil's fault and now GMA's tenure is that of 2izlal? I'm glad you're showing your true colors. You're not fooling anyone with your fake sudden rush of 'patriotism' and 'independence'. The only party in Lebanon that doesn't follow or listen to an external country is FPM. w elak 3en tefta7 hal mawdoo3 kamen? Ta2 shersh l 7aya! #JabalBaabda

Shersh aw shelsh ???
that is the question

 

[SeaAb]

Shersh aw shelsh ???
that is the question

 

[The Bidenator]

I wonder where this fake outrage was when the Lebanese-Syrian security apparatus was kidnapping Lebanese citizens and handing them over to the criminal Assad regime, most to never be seen ever again. As I recall, Berri and his stooges ran that show with their appointed overlords.

It is great news that a criminal who kidnaps his son and violates international custody law has been arrested and extradited to the country where he committed offense. The child will live a happy, safe life, and this will discourage future criminals from kidnapping their children. Lebanon already has too many of these lowlifes. At least this criminal's mother will not stand in front of US Congress for over 10 years begging just to know WHERE her son is rather than how he is doing.

 

[Abotareq93]

which goes to say you have no understand of right and wrong. the father kidnapped his son from the mother who was awarded custody by a court in the united states and fled to Lebanon. that is not the same as traveling to Lebanon with his son. the guy is also a us citizen born in the united states. mesh mazbale lebnen kell ma wa7ad baddo ya3mol jarime yeje yetkhabba hown.

And the father could be an American citizen and most probably he is because that is why Lebanese, Arabs and citizens from other countries marry American ladies, just for the citizenship and after getting it, they divorce and come back to his country where his mother arranged for a marriage from one of his relatives or neighbors.

 

[Abotareq93]

In case you have forgotten, Abass Ibrahim used force to take custody of his son from his ex wife. He sent security officers to forcefully strip the child from his mother. The video was posted on this forum. That was appalling. At 2 years old, the father gets custody.

It would be hypocritical for the same Abass Ibrahim to deny another father what he was awarded by enforcing a treasonable order.

Whether the law is cruel or not, is not the issue. I personally may or may not agree with the law itself. However, this case has many bad examples. There was no fair trial. It isn't just a case of giving a mother custody. It is a case of our govt handing over its citizens to another govt without fair trial or due legal process. It is a violation of the rights of citizenship.

Whether the law is fair or not is not the issue. We can say let's change the law. Until then, our laws must also be respected. Why didn't they send the child back to the mother and not also kidnap the father along and send him to a foreign govt?

This is a bad precedence and it is dangerous.

Was Abbas Ibrahim Ibrahim or General Security involved in this in any way? Were they the ones who arrested and deported Salameh?

 

[Indie]

@Indie bit7ebbe hal 2osas...ta3e feshe khel2ik plz.

Any parent who prevents their child from having a relationship with the other parent, and who kidnaps their own child, is a child abuser.

The child should rightfully be returned to the other parent.

However, the reason men behave this way in Lebanon is because the disgusting, sexist laws have thaught them that they can get away with such psychopathic behaviour. So, for the Lebanese justice system to now send these men to another country as criminals is the height of hypocrisy.

You can't reward some men for a particular behaviour while punishing others for the same behaviour.

Sally Faulkner hasn't seen her children for years. Why is her ex getting away with kidnapping while these men are not?

Send all the kidnapped children back to their mothers and change the laws so that fathers no longer think they can find shelter in Lebanon to perpetuate their abuse. This will remove the need to extradite them to other countries, as they will not have the societal approval to commit their crimes in the first place.

 

[Indie]

Lebanon isnt a signatory to the Hague Convention on Child Abduction. Meaning based on Lebanese law, a Lebanese father can NEVER be deemed guilty of kidnapping his own child.

Hopefully, this signals a change with how things are done in Lebanon, this case becomes a precedent for all similar cases, and all kidnapped children are reunited with their mothers.

Time for Lebanon to return to the civilized world.

 

[Dark Angel]

And the father could be an American citizen and most probably he is because that is why Lebanese, Arabs and citizens from other countries marry American ladies, just for the citizenship and after getting it, they divorce and come back to his country where his mother arranged for a marriage from one of his relatives or neighbors.

the father is actually born in the USA, and seemingly he also grew up there, and still he found no issues in kidnapping his son and fleeing with him to leb..

 

[JB81]

US threatens to arrest ICC judges if they pursue Americans for Afghan war crimes

US threatens to arrest ICC judges if they pursue Americans for Afghan war crimes

The United States threatened Monday to arrest and sanction judges and other officials of the International Criminal Court if it moves to charge any American who served in Afghanistan with war crimes.

www.france24.com

bkhsous el karameh el sha3eb el3anid... no comment

He's a US citizen that kidnapped an underaged American citizen. I think that's how it's been seen by law and international norms

 

[Rafidi]

He's a US citizen that kidnapped an underaged American citizen. I think that's how it's been seen by law and international norms

He is also a Lebanese citizen. Isn't he?

 

[JustLeb]

He's a US citizen that kidnapped an underaged American citizen. I think that's how it's been seen by law and international norms

doesn't matter he is also Lebanese and the Lebanese state has the duty to give him a chance to fight the extradition, but what the lebanese authorities did , unfortunately, is to ship directly. this is an undeniable ass licking.
if such a thing happened with Iran for example, i would have seen this forum exploding.
however self respect is one, and can't be divided;

notice that I am not talking about the boy, we can argue that the boy needs his mother and they can ask her to come to lebanon to get him.

 

[JB81]

He is also a Lebanese citizen. Isn't he?

So he can kidnap an underaged kid and get away with it?

Speaking of an overtly patriarchal society

 

[JB81]

doesn't matter he is also Lebanese and the Lebanese state has the duty to give him a chance to fight the extradition, but what the lebanese authorities did , unfortunately, is to ship directly. this is an undeniable ass licking.
if such a thing happened with Iran for example, i would have seen this forum exploding.
however self respect is one, and can't be divided;

notice that I am not talking about the boy, we can argue that the boy needs his mother and they can ask her to come to lebanon to get him.

A US citizen committed a crime on US soil against an underaged US citizen.

It's not the first time such incidents happen. If Lebanon doesn't act in a humanitarian way, it means it encourages such behavior

 

[Rafidi]

So he can kidnap an underaged kid and get away with it?

Speaking of an overtly patriarchal society

[]...the girl is his daughter. And under Lebanese law, father taking custody of his son is not called "kidnapping". He didn't kidnap another person's child to abuse the child, like the way you are putting it.

Wallah, if this guy was related to me (a brother or cousin) and they did this to him, I'd personally use my bare hands to take revenge against the ba$tard in govt. that ordered this treason and his family. []. When Abass Ibrahim asked police officers to use force and break into his ex wife's apartment and take away her child, you all supported him. You said it is the law. This is Lebanese law. If you're not happy with our sectarian and religious laws, change them. Don't break them and cause disorder and lawlessness. Even if you want to hand the child back, why hand over the man back to be treated as a criminal for taking custody over his child?

Besides, does American law apply in Lebanon? What Lebanese law did he break? Based on Lebanese law, isn't he entitled to have custody of his child? This is the first time such order is being carried out on behalf of a foreign govt. And we need answers. This is lawlessness. And you will reap lawlessness. If a Lebanese law that gives custody to the father exists, it takes precedence over the American law that gives custody to the mother. It is not the duty of our f-ing govt to implement and execute American laws. Or is our govt an American law enforcement agency? swings. I don't care if what the father did is wrong in America. In Lebanon, it isn't wrong and it is not illegal. And he was already in Lebanon. Why hand him over? If you're not happy with what he did, then change the laws. Don't act as if the country belongs to individuals and they can act based in their mood swings.