Armenian Genocide remembrance day - April 24, 2015

gramsci

gramsci

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I met an old Armenian woman two days ago at my friend's place, she's her grandma... We were talking about the situation in Armenia, the president resigning and the genocide... And then she told me what her parents went through! Fascinating stuff! Her mother's entire family was killed, she was the only survivor... Same thing with her father... They both relocated to the united states where they met and got married then decided to move to France... Then world war 2 happened! She was 8 years old when they fled Paris... The war ended they went back to Armenia then the Soviet union thing happened and they could no longer leave! then She met her husband, they got married and lived in a tiny studio apartment with 3 little girls! Then they managed to get back to France by selling everything they owned and have been here ever since! By the end of her story I was thinking to myself this woman is not only a direct descendent of genocide survivors but she has also lived through the worst period of human history, yet she managed to keep a smile on her face, and knit some hats for her great grandchildren! I admire her strength, resiliation and great spirit! May her parents' family members and others like them finally get the recognition they deserve!
Well the soviet union thing happened many many years before the WWII. To be exact on 1917.
After WWII , the devatstaed country of soviet union lost 20 million people in this war.. Naturally the state wont permit mass emigration for obvious reasons.. Someone had to stay and rebuilt the homeland..
 
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  • Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

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    Well the soviet union thing happened many many years before the WWII. To be exact on 1917.
    After WWII , the devatstaed country of soviet union lost 20 million people in this war.. Naturally the state wont permit mass emigration for obvious reasons.. Someone had to stay and rebuilt the homeland..
    1- make bloody revolution
    2- revolution fails, start civil war
    3- mech ma3rouf air minov b tiz minov
    4- force people to clean up the mess you just created
    5- more famine and death while you enjoy caviar on the kremlin porch

    *insert glorious soviet union anthem*
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

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    1- make bloody revolution
    2- revolution fails, start civil war
    3- mech ma3rouf air minov b tiz minov
    4- force people to clean up the mess you just created
    5- more famine and death while you enjoy caviar on the kremlin porch

    *insert glorious soviet union anthem*
    I think u studied history from comic books..u need to study son..to be able to make complex argument and not repeating bshits of mainstream propaganda..
     
    Iron Maiden

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    I think u studied history from comic books..u need to study son..to be able to make complex argument and not repeating bshits of mainstream propaganda..
    U need to read books that were not printed in the soviet union :)
     
    Iron Maiden

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    What is it about @gramsci that always seems to push your buttons? :)
    Its not gramsci per se, its leftist false narrative, they've rewritten history to their own liking sadly, its my own little crusade :)
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

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    ]
    Its not gramsci per se, its leftist false narrative, they've rewritten history to their own liking sadly, its my own little crusade :)
    pick any history book printed in any western european country.. Leftist narrative is their own history..because socialist were the one who shaped modern history since french revolution till modern days .. Unless ur excellency have another interpretation of history :D
    Let me tell u .. Have u ever heard of roberto Benigni ? He is an italian famous movies directore ... In his movie " la vita è bella : life is beautiful " the last scene is with an american tank entering to Auschwitz camp... While in reality it was the soviet who first entered to Auscwitz ... But to get Oscar he had to fit into the wetsrn propaganda .. So tell me now who is falsifying history ?


     
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    gramsci

    gramsci

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    From wikipedia :

    In the course of the war, the camp was staffed by 7,000 members of the German Schutzstaffel (SS), approximately 12 percent of whom were later convicted of war crimes. Some, including camp commandant Rudolf Höss, were executed. The Allied Powers did not act on early reports of atrocities at the camp, and their failure to bomb the camp or its railways remains controversial. At least 802 prisoners attempted to escape from Auschwitz, 144 successfully, and on 7 October 1944 two Sonderkommandounits—prisoners assigned to staff the gas chambers—launched a brief, unsuccessful uprising.

    As Soviet troops approached Auschwitz in January 1945, most of its population was sent west on a death march. The prisoners remaining at the camp were liberated on 27 January 1945, a day now commemorated as International Holocaust Remembrance Day. In the following decades, survivors such as Primo Levi, Viktor Frankl, and Elie Wieselwrote memoirs of their experiences in Auschwitz, and the camp became a dominant symbol of the Holocaust. In 1947 Poland founded the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum on the site of Auschwitz I and II, and in 1979 it was named a World Heritage Site by UNESCO.
     
    Iron Maiden

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    pick any history book printed in any western european country .. Those who really were into the war..
    Let me tell u .. Have u ever heard of roberto Benigni ? He is an italian famous movies directore ... In his movie " la vita è bella : life is beautiful " the last scene is with an american tank entering to Auschwitz camp... While in reality it was the soviet who first entered to Auscwitz ... But to get Oscar he had to fit into the wetsrn propaganda .. So tell me now who is falsifying history ?

    Are you really using a movie to justify your point of view? I dont care abt movies, he could have ridden a camel from the saudi special forces squad for all i care. Everybody knows that soviet got there first a movie wont change facts.

    But the soviets are always hailed as liberators when everyone doesnt know how the soviets stopped their offensive in front of warsaw during the nationalist uprising of 1944 and let the nazis exterminate them from a few miles away while only the RAF was air dropping arms and supplies, Just to claim that they were the liberators of warsaw a few weeks later and install a sobiet puppet regime instead of dealing with polish nationalists.
    Many other false narrative examples on the ready for you.

    Get real man
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

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    Are you really using a movie to justify your point of view? I dont care abt movies, he could have ridden a camel from the saudi special forces squad for all i care. Everybody knows that soviet got there first a movie wont change facts.

    But the soviets are always hailed as liberators when everyone doesnt know how the soviets stopped their offensive in front of warsaw during the nationalist uprising of 1944 and let the nazis exterminate them from a few miles away while only the RAF was air dropping arms and supplies, Just to claim that they were the liberators of warsaw a few weeks later and install a sobiet puppet regime instead of dealing with polish nationalists.
    Many other false narrative examples on the ready for you.

    Get real man
    this is true.. It was a tactical move.. Stalin never trusted poles ;)..
    katyn rings some bells ;).
     
    Iron Maiden

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    this is true.. It was a tactical move.. Stalin never trusted poles ;)..
    katyn rings some bells ;).
    Of course i know katyn, another great cover up by the soviets, but wats your point here?

    Stalin only trusted stalin and Beria and many others were his lapdogs and got disposed of when they were not needed anymore..
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

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    On a side note :
    The Soviets made clear their view on the situation in Warsaw to United States Ambassador, W. Averell Harriman. On 15 August 1944, Harriman received a note from Soviet Deputy Foreign Minister Andrey Vyshinsky. In this note, Vyshinsky was instructed by Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov to inform Harriman that the Soviet Government "could not go along" with US plans to airdrop arms to resistance groups in Warsaw and that the "action in Warsaw into which the Warsaw populations had been drawn was a purely adventuristic affair and the Soviet Government could not lend its hand to it." Vyshinsky's note concluded that Stalin had pointed out to Churchill on 5 August that one could not imagine how a few Polish detachments of the so-called National Army possessing neither tanks, artillery, or aviation could "take" Warsaw when the Nazis had four tank divisions at their disposal for the defense of the city.[1]

    Regardless of Stalin's political intentions, there could be alternate logistic reasons why the Soviet forces could not provide aid to Warsaw. One alternate explanation which has been given for the lack of early support is that the uprising began too early and the nearby Sovietforces could not fight their road to the city to support. Before and at the time of uprising, the German army started a massive Panzer force counterattack near Warsaw.[2]


    Another alternative explanation is that the Red Army was simply exhausted and hence unable to extend effective support to the Uprising. In support of this thesis, it is often claimed (mostly by Soviet sources) that since the opening of Operation Bagration many Red Army units had covered several hundred miles in a far-ranging offensive[citation needed], and their advance elements were at the very end of their logistical tether[citation needed]. This, coupled with the presence of several Panzer divisions from the Waffen-SS and the Wehrmacht around Warsaw[3] which administered a sharp reverse to the Soviet 2nd Tank Army in the final days of July, was, according to this view, sufficient to stop the Red Army in its tracks on the Warsaw front. However, it must be kept in mind that the units which reached Warsaw in late July 1944 were not part of Bagration, but instead advanced from Western Ukraine as part of the Lublin-Brest Operation, covering a much smaller distance. Those units were in fact able to operate quite effectively against German forces to the south and north of Warsaw during August and September, successfully securing bridgeheads over the Vistula and Narew rivers in those sectors. Given that Soviet success, the apparent inactivity on the most direct route of approach towards Warsaw, through the suburb of Praga, lasting through August and the first half of September, is to say the least puzzling. Furthermore, once the Soviet forces seized Praga in mid-September 1944, only poorly supported units of the inexperienced 1st Polish Army were assigned to attempt the crossing of the river Vistula to aid the insurgents. Those crossings failed to establish a durable foothold on the left bank of the river, and caused considerable casualties among the Polish units involved. It is an open question whether an earlier Soviet effort using more experienced units with adequate support would have been able to reach and cross the Vistula in the Warsaw sector, and provide timely and effective support to the Polish units fighting in the main part of the city. The continued difficulty in accessing the Soviet documents of the time presently located in the Russian archives makes it difficult for historians to answer this question with any degree of certainty
     
    Iron Maiden

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    @gramsci This thread is abt armenian people's history so lets keep it at this, if you want we can discuss the invastion of the first republic of armenia by the red army while they were in the midst of a fight with the ottomans in 1920. Of course to make things even better moscow was sending arms and money to fund the turkish offensive.
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

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    @gramsci This thread is abt armenian people's history so lets keep it at this, if you want we can discuss the invastion of the first republic of armenia by the red army while they were in the midst of a fight with the ottomans in 1920. Of course to make things even better moscow was sending arms and money to fund the turkish offensive.
    Post some links
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

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    What about this piece of info :

    demonstrations took place in Yerevan, Armenia on April 24, 1965, on the 50th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. It is said that this event constitutes the first step in the struggle for the recognition of the Armenian Genocide of 1915.
    On April 24, 1965, for the first time for any such demonstration in the entire Soviet Union,100,000 protesters held a 24-hour demonstration in front of the Opera House on the 50th anniversary of the commencement of the Armenian Genocide, and demanded that the Soviet Union government officially recognize the Armenian Genocide committed by the Young Turks in the Ottoman Empire, and build a memorial in Armenia's capital city of Yerevan to perpetuate the memory of the victims of the Armenian Genocide.

    The posters said "Just solution to the Armenian question" and other nationalistic slogans concerning Western Armenia, Karabakh and Nakhichevan.

    To the shouts of "our land, our lands" the major demonstration marked a substantial public awakening of the Armenian consciousness in Soviet Armenia. The Kremlin taking into account the demands of the demonstrators, commissioned a memorial for the genocide. The memorial, on Tsitsernakaberd hill, was completed in 1967.

    Following the example of this demonstration, similar protests were made throughout the world, in whichever country the Armenian diaspora exists. Since the day of the protests, Armenians (and other Soviets as well) to this day visit the memorial and make protests around the world to gain acceptance of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey.
     
    Iron Maiden

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    Post some links
    Here you go

    Turkish–Armenian War - Wikipedia
    Heres the most interresting part

    IMG_5326.jpg

    To note for tjose who do notknow, in yhe treaty of moscow the armenian republic lost many if its land gained through infependance and the treaty if sevres and formally established the soviet republic oif Armenia under its modern reduced borders after the armenians had fought and bledsince 1917 against the ottomans to firm their country.
     
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    gramsci

    gramsci

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    With the republic suffering heavy losses after the war, Stalin allowed an open immigration policy in Armenia; the diaspora were invited to repatriate to Armenia (nergaght) and revitalize the country's population and bolster its workforce. Armenians living in countries such as Cyprus, France, Greece, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria were primarily the survivors or the descendants of the genocide. They were offered the option of having their expenses paid by the Soviet government for their trip back to their homeland. An estimated 150,000 Armenians immigrated to Soviet Armenia between 1946 and 1948 and settled in Yerevan, Leninakan, Kirovakan and other towns.[25][26]

    Lured by numerous incentives such as food coupons, better housing and other benefits, they were received coldly by the Armenians living in the Republic upon their arrival. The repatriates spoke the Western Armenian dialect, instead of the Eastern Armenian spoken in Soviet Armenia. They were often addressed as aghbars ("brothers") by Armenians living in the republic, due to their different pronunciation of the word. Although initially used in humor, the word went on to carry on a more pejorative connotation.[27] Their treatment by the Soviet government was not much better. A number of Armenian immigrants in 1946 had their belongings confiscated upon arrival at Odessa's port, as they had taken with them everything they had, including clothes and jewelry. This was the first disappointment experienced by Armenians; however, as there was no possibility of return the Armenians were forced to continue their journey to Armenia. Many of the immigrants were targeted by Soviet intelligence agencies and the Ministry of Interior for real or perceived ties to Armenian nationalist organizations, and were later sent to labor camps in Siberia and elsewhere, where they would not be released until after Stalin's death.
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

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    Here you go

    Turkish–Armenian War - Wikipedia
    Heres the most interresting part

    View attachment 9821

    To note for tjose who do notknow, in yhe treaty of moscow the armenian republic lost many if its land gained through infependance and the treaty if sevres and formally established the soviet republic oif Armenia under its modern reduced borders after the armenians had fought and bledsince 1917 against the ottomans to firm their country.
    How is this connected to the genocide ? Can't find any linkage to it...
     
    Iron Maiden

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    How is this connected to the genocide ? Can't find any linkage to it...
    Lol the republic was declared in 1917 by survivors of the genocide and was a land of refuge for many fleeing armenians, what do you mean its not connected to the genocide??

    Just gave the wiki article u csn check the sources at least ;)
     
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