Arresting someone for a casual joke in private is something to be worried about

  • Advertisement
  • Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I know we're not in Switzerland...Trust me...I know :banghead:

    But is that a reason to turn into North Korea and be fine with it? Lek Enta Bel Zeit Sert Bkhaf 3leik Yesheddouk 3al 7abes because half of what you say is considered by their standards "Isarat El Na3arat El Ta2ifiyeh":lol:

    Ana Byetla3leh Shi one and a half years
    @Dark Angel Byekhedlo Shi 6 months
    @HannaTheCrusader Mou2abbad
    @AtheistForJesus E3dem Shanqan
    @Telefon Kasse E3dem Shanqan W Men Ba3da E3dem Dab7an, Marrtein

    Honestly, even Ghandi Byetla3lo Bel Mayyte Kaffen 3al Meshe...3ala So77t El Salemeh Ya3ne.

    Hrebo :lol:

    there you go, that's more like it, think of it as a purgatory stage where people always come out better from the other end, people so underestimate the concept of self flagellation.

    on the positive side, we are almost at a stage were we no longer need a judge, and we can pass judgment on ourselves and set the appropriate sentence, that is not something to be taken lightly :p
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I agree with you here. Unfortunately this is proof just how sectarian our country is (as if we needed reminding). You can steal, lie, even murder, but you can't hurt precious and fragile sectarian feelings.
    mankind are tribal by nature, very few people manage to break these chains of association and break free from their background and their environment towards a more objective and rational state. (and no, atheism is in the other direction :p ) it is not religion per se, it is could be anything, extended family, political party, and sometimes even sports team. this is manifested all around the globe. sectarianism is but a simple symptom of this phenomenon.
    It should be for everything, from highest and loftiest truths to the lowest and most disgusting insults. Freedom of speech means exactly that, freedom of speech, not freedom of truth only.
    it is a given that we are all against all forms of tyranny and oppression. and we are in agreement over the necessity of freedom of speech means, but rather about the more fundamental question, are we ready for freedom?

    think of it on a smaller scale, when you were a kid being raised by your parents, you were not free to say whatever you want and whatever pleases you, you were free to express everything politely though; and these measures are put in place by good parenting so that you become ready to embrace your freedom without abusing it. freedom in all its manifestation requires a foundation of reason and meaning in order to bloom into something better.

    every word that you utter has consequences, so choose your next words very carefully :p why is there such a concept as freedom of speech? is it a frivolous right or is it an earned privilege?
     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    you are lying. i did not associate you with anyone. you simply got upset when i brought up slaymen franjiyeh's infamous offense, and you got upset because you have a tribal mentality.

    i challenge you to prove otherwise. here i will make it easier for you, these are the links to my post in our discussion.

    post 1
    post 2
    post 3
    post 4
    post 5


    you're welcome. keep taking notes.


    i neither suggested nor supported anything of that sort. that is a conjecture and falsehood like usual. it is rather very clear from all my posts that i am against asmar's incarceration for what he said. his resignation is a different matter.

    so what is the meaning of your charade?
    You mentioned Sleiman franjieh to box me in. If that makes you feel better. I'm happy with that. On the other hand , you were fired up when in return I wrote about the zennet bilnezel.

    I'm the least tribal person here. In fact, I have no issues with any group in general. They all mean well but they all have some degree of corruption. So stop setting up smoke screens.

    Being against elasmar is ok. Using this incident against him is the question. This is what the thread is about. Talking everything else is going around in circles to make people believe there is some logic behind a stupid decision.
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I know we're not in Switzerland...Trust me...I know :banghead:

    But is that a reason to turn into North Korea and be fine with it? Lek Enta Bel Zeit Sert Bkhaf 3leik Yesheddouk 3al 7abes because half of what you say is considered by their standards "Isarat El Na3arat El Ta2ifiyeh":lol:

    Ana Byetla3leh Shi one and a half years
    @Dark Angel Byekhedlo Shi 6 months
    @HannaTheCrusader Mou2abbad
    @AtheistForJesus E3dem Shanqan
    @Telefon Kasse E3dem Shanqan W Men Ba3da E3dem Dab7an, Marrtein

    Honestly, even Ghandi Byetla3lo Bel Mayyte Kaffen 3al Meshe...3ala So77t El Salemeh Ya3ne.

    Hrebo :lol:

    i agree that arretsing him for what he said is unwarranted
    i never said otherwise

    but , all i am saying is, this is political and i do understand why its happening

    he should have been questioned and released immediately
    whats happening is just settling scores.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You mentioned Sleiman franjieh to box me in. If that makes you feel better. I'm happy with that. On the other hand , you were fired up when in return I wrote about the zennet bilnezel.
    i honestly have no clue what you are talking about.

    I'm the least tribal person here. In fact, I have no issues with any group in general. They all mean well but they all have some degree of corruption. So stop setting up smoke screens.
    only tribalism explains your reaction, not that i care. this is your problem, just don't drag me into it.

    Being against elasmar is ok. Using this incident against him is the question. This is what the thread is about. Talking everything else is going around in circles to make people believe there is some logic behind a stupid decision.
    i think my position was very clear from the beginning. not sure why are you directing this uproar at me.
     
    fidelio

    fidelio

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    يمثل رئيس الاتحاد العمالي العام السابق بشارة الأسمر أمام قاضي التحقيق في بيروت جورج رزق، عند الحادية عشرة من قبل ظهر الإثنين المقبل 27 أيار الحالي، لاستكمال التحقيق معه في الدعوى المقدمة ضده من رئيس "حركة التغيير" المحامي ايلي محفوض ومحامين آخرين على خلفية الكلام المسيء في حق البطريرك الكاردينال مار نصرالله بطرس صفير.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    i agree that arretsing him for what he said is unwarranted
    i never said otherwise

    but , all i am saying is, this is political and i do understand why its happening

    he should have been questioned and released immediately
    whats happening is just settling scores.
    Yes of course it’s political. I agree.

    But my problem is that it is done by a dangerous political tactic of sectarian outbidding and incitement.

    That’s on one side.

    On the other side, while sectarian clans are settling scores between each others, they’re doing it at our expenses. Setting precedents such as this one, is directly touching our liberties and destroying the mere notion of justice, let alone serving to terrorize us, the masses, in order to subjugate us.

    Believe it or not, you can’t imagine the growing fear this situation has created, due to the fact that people are seeing a blatant injustice covered by the judicial system, over a complete random and ordinary act, through a ridiculous arbitrary judgement.

    How can the citizen feel safe when he sees to which extent this system is brutal and unjust, and not a single member of the ruling class ready to even raise a voice.

    This issue is extremely dangerous and has importance and repercussions way beyond a simple political bickering.

    And those who are rejoicing still do not understand that they are invited at a dinner party, not as guest of honor, but as the main course.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    يمثل رئيس الاتحاد العمالي العام السابق بشارة الأسمر أمام قاضي التحقيق في بيروت جورج رزق، عند الحادية عشرة من قبل ظهر الإثنين المقبل 27 أيار الحالي، لاستكمال التحقيق معه في الدعوى المقدمة ضده من رئيس "حركة التغيير" المحامي ايلي محفوض ومحامين آخرين على خلفية الكلام المسيء في حق البطريرك الكاردينال مار نصرالله بطرس صفير.
    This is so ridiculous on so many levels, that I can’t stop laughing...lol

    Another meme golden opportunity ?
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Yes of course it’s political. I agree.

    But my problem is that it is done by a dangerous political tactic of sectarian outbidding and incitement.

    That’s on one side.

    On the other side, while sectarian clans are settling scores between each others, they’re doing it at our expenses. Setting precedents such as this one, is directly touching our liberties and destroying the mere notion of justice, let alone serving to terrorize us, the masses, in order to subjugate us.

    Believe it or not, you can’t imagine the growing fear this situation has created, due to the fact that people are seeing a blatant injustice covered by the judicial system, over a complete random and ordinary act, through a ridiculous arbitrary judgement.

    How can the citizen feel safe when he sees to which extent this system is brutal and unjust, and not a single member of the ruling class ready to even raise a voice.

    This issue is extremely dangerous and has importance and repercussions way beyond a simple political bickering.

    And those who are rejoicing still do not understand that they are invited at a dinner party, not as guest of honor, but as the main course.
    While I agree with your outrage at the man being arrested for making a distasteful joke, I'm confused as to why you see this as sectarian incitement?

    The man is Christian and he was arrested for "insulting" a Christian figure.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    While I agree with your outrage at the man being arrested for making a distasteful joke, I'm confused as to why you see this as sectarian incitement?

    The man is Christian and he was arrested for "insulting" a Christian figure.
    You had the answer in the question.

    Whether his joke was misplaced or not, of a bad taste or not, rated or not, it was not directed at that religious figure, contrary to the accusation, and it contained no insults.
    Portraying such casual joke, as "insulting a Christian figure" is the incitement itself. Making of it an attack against the religion or the sect is the incitement itself. Turning it into a matter of sectarian pride is incitement itself.
    Which incitement is then used as a pretext and justification for threats, insults, harassment and oppression, depriving the man from his liberty, from his family and loved ones, and from his rights.
    Over a PRIVATE and casual joke, just because some decided to open the sectarian bazaar over it, that day.


    I'll tell you even more. He will not be judged for slander, nor defamation nor insults. You know why? Because as stupid and arbitrary that whole process is, they cannot even produce a single word that is constitutive of such felonies. Meaning those accusations would be so ridiculous, so unsustainable and so far away from legality, that they would never pass in a final judgement, for lack of incriminating words.

    Instead, they're conveniently trying to pass him as committing the crime of "inciting sectarian hatred" (6 months to three years of jail).

    And this is where it becomes as much elastic as they wish it to be. In here, it is completely left to the arbitrary evaluation of the judge. And we're seeing what kind of arbitrary judgement these kind of judges have.

    The ridiculous part in all this, is that the sectarian mafias send in their dogs, goons and servants to bark day and night, and create this whole atmosphere of sectarian excitement, then THEIR judge comes in and tells the defendant "see, you created sectarian incitement".

    Ya3neh frankly, 7araket Zo3ran W Keshtbanjiyeh W Ness Bteswa *** W Jeyin Yetzeko 3leyna...at our own expenses. All this for them to snatch power from each others, and be able to eat a bigger chunk of our rights.

    Simply put, they take people for granted and lead them like cattle, if not like donkeys.

    Khlessna Ba2a...At some time, either the people of this country wake up and oppose those barbarian ruthless and inconsiderate brutes that are ruling us, or let them shut up forever until they die.

    Enough giving those rulers with militia mentality, excuses and pretexts and time. At some time, one has to stand up and declare zero tolerance for their 3ohr.

    Our parents did not work all their lives and spend fortune on our education, and we did not work hard on ourselves, for some under educated and under cultivated Sermeyeh 3ati2a to come and treat us like inferior beings.

    Some people might believe that this is what they're worth. Those who don't, need to stand up and prove it.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You had the answer in the question.

    Whether his joke was misplaced or not, of a bad taste or not, rated or not, it was not directed at that religious figure, contrary to the accusation, and it contained no insults.
    Portraying such casual joke, as "insulting a Christian figure" is the incitement itself. Making of it an attack against the religion or the sect is the incitement itself. Turning it into a matter of sectarian pride is incitement itself.
    Which incitement is then used as a pretext and justification for threats, insults, harassment and oppression, depriving the man from his liberty, from his family and loved ones, and from his rights.
    Over a PRIVATE and casual joke, just because some decided to open the sectarian bazaar over it, that day.


    I'll tell you even more. He will not be judged for slander, nor defamation nor insults. You know why? Because as stupid and arbitrary that whole process is, they cannot even produce a single word that is constitutive of such felonies. Meaning those accusations would be so ridiculous, so unsustainable and so far away from legality, that they would never pass in a final judgement, for lack of incriminating words.

    Instead, they're conveniently trying to pass him as committing the crime of "inciting sectarian hatred" (6 months to three years of jail).

    And this is where it becomes as much elastic as they wish it to be. In here, it is completely left to the arbitrary evaluation of the judge. And we're seeing what kind of arbitrary judgement these kind of judges have.

    The ridiculous part in all this, is that the sectarian mafias send in their dogs, goons and servants to bark day and night, and create this whole atmosphere of sectarian excitement, then THEIR judge comes in and tells the defendant "see, you created sectarian incitement".

    Ya3neh frankly, 7araket Zo3ran W Keshtbanjiyeh W Ness Bteswa *** W Jeyin Yetzeko 3leyna...at our own expenses. All this for them to snatch power from each others, and be able to eat a bigger chunk of our rights.

    Simply put, they take people for granted and lead them like cattle, if not like donkeys.

    Khlessna Ba2a...At some time, either the people of this country wake up and oppose those barbarian ruthless and inconsiderate brutes that are ruling us, or let them shut up forever until they die.

    Enough giving those rulers with militia mentality, excuses and pretexts and time. At some time, one has to stand up and declare zero tolerance for their 3ohr.

    Our parents did not work all their lives and spend fortune on our education, and we did not work hard on ourselves, for some under educated and under cultivated Sermeyeh 3ati2a to come and treat us like inferior beings.

    Some people might believe that this is what they're worth. Those who don't, need to stand up and prove it.
    The way I see it, sectarian people would go after those of different sects, not one of their own.

    I would define this case as one of political manoeuvering rather than sectarian incitement.
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    :cigar:
    He will not be judged for slander, nor defamation nor insults.
    As matter of fact, who can prove he didn't mean what he said as far as praying for Lebanon's New Saint to give him hair and courage?
    Heck, I think we can all try it. There is nothing to lose:)

    But what is really disturbing the fact that after all the discussions, so many still can't look outside the box:
    "The man is Christian and he was arrested for "insulting" a Christian figure."
    1- They still see it as if Sfeir was the intended target to be insulted which he is not the case. The intended target is the idiots who claimed Sfeir became the new Jesus and Saint overnight which is the real insult to Christianity by those idiots who said it.
    2- As if insulting a religious figure is not legitimate insult unless you're from a different religion or sect. How sectarian is that?

    So God Save Lebanon from its own defenders. Who needs enemies when Lebanon has such Knights Templars 12606
     
    Last edited:
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The way I see it, sectarian people would go after those of different sects, not one of their own.

    I would define this case as one of political manoeuvering rather than sectarian incitement.
    This is a typical political maneuvering by sectarian incitement, with goals both inside the sect (determining the alpha male/female) and towards other sects and groups (tracing territory of the clan).
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Yes of course it’s political. I agree.

    But my problem is that it is done by a dangerous political tactic of sectarian outbidding and incitement.

    That’s on one side.

    On the other side, while sectarian clans are settling scores between each others, they’re doing it at our expenses. Setting precedents such as this one, is directly touching our liberties and destroying the mere notion of justice, let alone serving to terrorize us, the masses, in order to subjugate us.

    Believe it or not, you can’t imagine the growing fear this situation has created, due to the fact that people are seeing a blatant injustice covered by the judicial system, over a complete random and ordinary act, through a ridiculous arbitrary judgement.

    How can the citizen feel safe when he sees to which extent this system is brutal and unjust, and not a single member of the ruling class ready to even raise a voice.

    This issue is extremely dangerous and has importance and repercussions way beyond a simple political bickering.

    And those who are rejoicing still do not understand that they are invited at a dinner party, not as guest of honor, but as the main course.

    it has zero reprecussions
    the same can be said over the ones that criticized berri or shn or hariri or jumblat
    the reality is

    there are up to 10 people one cant criticize harshly in lebanon and the rest you can

    lets not make a big case out of it

    batrak sfeir ( and i depsie his politicla stands) is like shn to christians

    peope wjho ctritized shn ( maria maalouf,jerri maher, etc) havent returned to lebanon since years cause they will face a hasrher treatement that beshara

    my point is

    thats how lebanon is and its sects are
    one need to learn how to play within the rules

    only exception you can attack, is GENERAL. cause he refuses foir anyone to be arrested for abusing him

    remember few years back, ali hassan khalil son called him A 3AMEEL to GENERAL and GENERAL refused him to be arrested

    lets not give the bechara asmar more worth than it is

    freedom of speech wont be hindered, we all know the few red lines not to touch

    also, freedom is not to go and abuse wan-tingly others, there must be even a standard that one cant breach even in lebabon, where freedom has been overly used to become personal hate and fabricated lies speech

    but thats another case
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    it has zero reprecussions
    the same can be said over the ones that criticized berri or shn or hariri or jumblat
    the reality is

    there are up to 10 people one cant criticize harshly in lebanon and the rest you can

    lets not make a big case out of it

    batrak sfeir ( and i depsie his politicla stands) is like shn to christians

    peope wjho ctritized shn ( maria maalouf,jerri maher, etc) havent returned to lebanon since years cause they will face a hasrher treatement that beshara

    my point is

    thats how lebanon is and its sects are
    one need to learn how to play within the rules

    only exception you can attack, is GENERAL. cause he refuses foir anyone to be arrested for abusing him

    remember few years back, ali hassan khalil son called him A 3AMEEL to GENERAL and GENERAL refused him to be arrested

    lets not give the bechara asmar more worth than it is

    freedom of speech wont be hindered, we all know the few red lines not to touch

    also, freedom is not to go and abuse wan-tingly others, there must be even a standard that one cant breach even in lebabon, where freedom has been overly used to become personal hate and fabricated lies speech

    but thats another case

    That Lebanese in general are hypocrites, sectarian sensitive wackos, and that there are figures that you cannot criticize or even speak about on all sides, is very well known. It's not like there is a discovery here.

    But that has always been a matter that was abnormal and that was never recognized as rightful. And the law was ultimately the final compass to end the debate.

    Only this time, a grave precedent was set, in which the law itself was completely broken and the judicial power is being abusively used as a tool for coercion and breaking the law, all this for political purposes and by institutionalizing limits, set forth not by the law, but by the ruling warlords and sectarian mafias.

    And that is what you are missing here. The fact that sectarian rulers are telling you "You shut up and do as we tell you to do, not as the law permits you, or we bring hell on you and you better trust that we will be ruthless, insensitive savage and more brutal than you can ever think"

    This is the message. And it is loud and clear. And there is no twist that can minimize it or make one think that it is just casual play. It is not. Not this time around.

    Sending Zo3ran in the street, on on TVs, because someone said something bad, might be casual play. And we fought it as something we agreed was wrong.

    Starting to put people in jail, for something the sectarian ruler decided to consider as bad, is a complete different thing. Way more dangerous. And you want to pass it as casual?

    So no, I disagree, those are new rules that should be rejected, and violently. It we should make a big case of it because repercussions are extremely dangerous.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Can't believe that Beshara el Asmar is still being held in prison.
    Weinon el FPMers yalleh bidef3o 3an el freedom ofl expression? They have kept quiet this time.
    FPMers are the most hypocritical people I've ever seen.

    Their principles are situational and vary according to their interests and whether they like the person in question or not.

    What a lousy 3ahed. Te3teer.
     
    Abotareq93

    Abotareq93

    Legendary Member
    Can't believe that Beshara el Asmar is still being held in prison.
    Weinon el FPMers yalleh bidef3o 3an el freedom ofl expression? They have kept quiet this time.
    FPMers are the most hypocritical people I've ever seen.

    Their principles are situational and vary according to their interests and whether they like the person in question or not.

    What a lousy 3ahed. Te3teer.
    Do not worry. عم بقومولو إياه بالحبس
     
    Top