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Ashura, its meaning and impact on Lebanese Shias and Hezbollah

agnostic

agnostic

Legendary Member
I thank @Lebanon_not_Arabic for requesting information about Karabala and Ashura and their impact on Shias. Therefore came the idea of this thread.

Nota Bene : I am not a literary man and my English is quite bad. Some of my sentences may appear too zealous because of my veneration and resolute attachement to Imam Husain and to the legacy of his martyrdom in Karabala.

Ashura is the alpha and omega for Hezbollah. It is indeed the central key for the attachment of Lebanese Shias to Hezbollah and to SHN, and also the central key to perceive and probe the character and the spirit of HA. I hope this thread could cover all this.

Ashura is an apotheosis of the confrontation of :
Holy Family against Devil's lieutenants
revolution against inertia,
freedom against enslavement,
just against unjust,
good against evil,
honor against spinelessness,
virtue against material life,
faith against treason,
truth against falseness,
beauty against ugliness.

In short it is about worshipping God against worshipping the Golden Calf.

Here a propaganda video that illustrates very well the impact of Ashrua on Hezbollah.

View attachment Ashura-2006War.mp4
 
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  • agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    Ashoura's beauty explained by Sayyed Ali.

    ما رأيتُ إلا جميلا
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    1578340381262.png

    Both of these two venerated Shia Saints hold the spirit of the genuine Islam, the beautiful Islam that Karbala taught us on how to get rid of any alienations and remain free.

    In the other side, the ugly material side, Donald Trump is considered as "The Crusader in Chief".

    ANd in the end of the day, all human beings have no choice but to worship one of the two following gods, and there is no third:
    - God
    - Golden Calf

    وما الجهادُ إلا حربَ نفسِ الانسان لتكونَ من عبادِ اللهِ الأحرار على أن تكونَ من عبيدِ الدنيا الأذلاء
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    View attachment 16752

    Both of these two venerated Shia Saints hold the spirit of the genuine Islam, the beautiful Islam that Karbala taught us on how to get rid of any alienations and remain free.

    In the other side, the ugly material side, Donald Trump is considered as "The Crusader in Chief".

    ANd in the end of the day, all human beings have no choice but to worship one of the two following gods, and there is no third:
    - God
    - Golden Calf

    وما الجهادُ إلا حربَ نفسِ الانسان لتكونَ من عبادِ اللهِ الأحرار على أن تكونَ من عبيدِ الدنيا الأذلاء
    people go to wars for all kinds of reasons, all thinking and believing that God and righteousness are on their side. it is true that sometimes you have to fight and that one side could be more right than the other; however one thing you can rest assured of, God is not on the side of war, in any war, no matter the situation.

    whatever the problem is between two nations, it can and should be solved without resorting to the kind of violence that will send millions to their doom. violence begets violence, and evil begets evil. real courage and real deliverance are in breaking that cycle.
     
    Myso

    Myso

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Myso

    Myso

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Both of these two venerated Shia Saints hold the spirit of the genuine Islam, the beautiful Islam that Karbala taught us on how to get rid of any alienations and remain free.
    (1) No such thing as "Shiah Saint" in Shiah theology.
    (2) Those two are criminals that are responsible for the death of Iraqis and many innocents. Those two do not even belong to proper Twelver shiah theology (Ikhbarism) but an Iranian deformation that's inspired from Wahabism which I call Thirteens Shiahism.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    it is true that sometimes you have to fight and that one side could be more right than the other; however one thing you can rest assured of, God is not on the side of war, in any war, no matter the situation.
    In the present case, it is the "Crusader in Chief" who declared war de facto.

    whatever the problem is between two nations, it can and should be solved without resorting to the kind of violence that will send millions to their doom. violence begets violence, and evil begets evil. real courage and real deliverance are in breaking that cycle.
    What cycle are you speaking about. The Crusader in Chief has no shame to openly claim the right to steal the resources of the region, to kill Imad Mughniye, Qasim Soleimani and any HA members.


    **********************


    Now back to the post that you quoted and you ignored the content, what is your opinion on its content, in particular, the point that at the end of the day humans have only two choices and no third of the god to worship, i. God, ii. Golden Calf (ego and material life)
     
    Myso

    Myso

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    In the present case, it is the "Crusader in Chief" who declared war de facto.

    What cycle are you speaking about. The Crusader in Chief has no shame to openly claim the right to steal the resources of the region, to kill Imad Mughniye, Qasim Soleimani and any HA members.


    **********************


    Now back to the post that you quoted and you ignored the content, what is your opinion on its content, in particular, the point that at the end of the day humans have only two choices and no third of the god to worship, i. God, ii. Golden Calf (ego and material life)
    (1) The God of Islam is a Monarch on a throne. A material world god. The Evil Yahweh. Who promises pleasures and women.
    (2) The Golden Calf and the story of Moses is make belief. An adoption of Judaism. Moses never existed in Egypt (no Ancient Egyptian records when they've recorded their enemies), migrated (no mention again) or went up a mountain.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    In the present case, it is the "Crusader in Chief" who declared war de facto.
    does not really matter, yesterday it was someone else, today it is him, tomorrow it will be someone completely new. all having their reasons to do what they want to do, everybody is willing to go to war over something. it is quite a pity that this is what the world is being reduced to. both the iranians and the americans deserve better than this.

    What cycle are you speaking about. The Crusader in Chief has no shame to openly claim the right to steal the resources of the region, to kill Imad Mughniye, Qasim Soleimani and any HA members.
    indeed, it is a shame. all of the people you mentioned played a key role in preventing the takfiri extremists from taking hold in syria, and though we have our ideological differences, that is not something that should be forgotten. they deserve a better fate than to be taken out by drones, i hope history will give them their due respect.

    it remains a fact though that the oil in the middle east is a curse both to the region and to the world. it is not like the people around here need much of a reason to kill each other, it has been going on for rather a long time i would say. the point however remains, it sometimes takes more courage to break the cycle and stop the war than it does to ignite it.

    Now back to the post that you quoted and you ignored the content, what is your opinion on its content, in particular, the point that at the end of the day humans have only two choices and no third of the god to worship, i. God, ii. Golden Calf (ego and material life)
    sounds very deep.. where did you get it from?
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    sounds very deep.. where did you get it from?
    It is repeated in Islam (the duality and confrontation between dyn and dunya and between 3ibad allah [al2a7rar] and 3abyd 'dunya [2al-2adhila2]). And the importance of Ashura and commemorating it as much as possible, specially the day before HA fighters go in holy-defense missions, is to get rid of the Golden Calf (ego and attachment to material life) and fight only for the sake of God.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Ashura, that time of they year when you can abuse your children without going to jail. (and even earn some Allah cookies for it)



    Screen Shot 2020-01-06 at 11.06.39 PM.png Screen Shot 2020-01-06 at 11.08.24 PM.png


    Screen Shot 2020-01-06 at 11.06.58 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-01-06 at 11.08.16 PM.png
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    It is repeated in Islam (the duality and confrontation between dyn and dunya and between 3ibad allah [al2a7rar] and 3abyd 'dunya [2al-2adhila2]). And the importance of Ashura and commemorating it as much as possible, specially the day before HA fighters go in holy-defense missions, is to get rid of the Golden Calf (ego and attachment to material life) and fight only for the sake of God.
    and yet we both agree that God does not need anyone to fight for Him.

    but going back to that statement, its roots are an integral part of the sermon on the mount:

    "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

    and i use the word integral because it is simply one component, there is more to it in order to perceive the full picture. for didn't isis fighters also believe they were doing God a favor? so what is it then that they were missing?
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    and yet we both agree that God does not need anyone to fight for Him.
    You are misinterpreting. Life (in Dunya) is a passage and an exam. The higher note of this exam is obtained by giving everything including one's life, ego and wealth for the sake of God. Fighting for the sake of God, and the triumph of Peace Truth and Justice that each represent God in Islam, means that you don't decide to fight your opponent because of your ego that your opponent may have insulted (for example, Imam Ali once paused the fight when his ugly opponent of munafiqi qoraish insulted his mother, because Imam Ali insisted to calm down his anger and not fight for the sake of his ego).
    I hope it is clear now. Of course God does not need anything nor anyone to worship him. But it is not for that human morally elevates himself and therefore must worship God.

    but going back to that statement, its roots are an integral part of the sermon on the mount,
    It also exists but in different way in Chinese religion or tradition.

    for didn't isis fighters also believe they were doing God a favor? so what is it then that they were missing?
    Islam of Isis has its source in mixing Dyn and Dunya. There has been the same with the Christians who made horrors in the name of Christian Religion.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You are misinterpreting. Life (in Dunya) is a passage and an exam. The higher note of this exam is obtained by giving everything including one's life, ego and wealth for the sake of God. Fighting for the sake of God, and the triumph of Peace Truth and Justice that each represent God in Islam, means that you don't decide to fight your opponent because of your ego that your opponent may have insulted (for example, Imam Ali once paused the fight when his ugly opponent of munafiqi qoraish insulted his mother, because Imam Ali insisted to calm down his anger and not fight for the sake of his ego).
    it is not simply a passage, it is also a manifestation of being to create a better reality than the one that was handed down to you. but regardless, wars are a reflection of our failures to do that, sometimes we fight for things are not personal, but we do fight and go to wards nevertheless. are there alternatives? don't we all do that when we have to defend our friends and families? maybe we all do, but it would still be human and not divine.
    I hope it is clear now. Of course God does not need anything nor anyone to worship him. But it is not for that human morally elevates himself and therefore must worship God.
    what i pointed out was that God does not need people to fight for Him. worship is a different issue, and God still does not need it, the praise is a choice.
    It also exists but in different way in Chinese religion or tradition.
    it still is a single parameter among many, it is a statement to explain a certain reality, the statement itself is not the objective.

    Islam of Isis has its source in mixing Dyn and Dunya. There has been the same with the Christians who made horrors in the name of Christian Religion.
    indeed, and that is the whole point, it is their certitude that they are doing God a favor that throws them down into that abyss, no one is immune to that, the only immunity resides in the recognition and the acceptance that we are all vulnerable to making that mistake.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    @Dark Angel (and also @Muki who is now watching the thread)

    Did Moses fight for the sake of God or for the sake of anything else?

    View attachment 16759
    i will give you the same answer to that question that was given by Jesus when He was asked by the crowds about moses:

    30- فَقَالُوا لَهُ: "أَيَّ آيَةٍ إِذًا تَصْنَع، لِنَرَى ونُؤْمِنَ بِكَ؟ مَاذَا تَعْمَل؟
    31- آبَاؤُنَا أَكَلُوا الـمَنَّ في البَرِّيَّة، كَمَا هُوَ مَكْتُوب: أَعْطَاهُم خُبْزًا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ لِيَأْكُلُوا".
    ....
    48- أَنَا هُوَ خُبْزُ الـحَيَاة.
    49- آبَاؤُكُم أَكَلُوا الـمَنَّ في البَرِّيَّة، ومَاتُوا.
    50- هـذَا هُوَ الـخُبْزُ النَّازِلُ مِنَ السَّمَاء، لِيَأْكُلَ مِنْهُ الإِنْسَانُ فلا يَمُوت.
    51- أَنَا هُوَ الـخُبْزُ الـحَيُّ النَّازِلُ مِنَ السَّمَاء. مَنْ يَأْكُلْ مِنْ هـذَا الـخُبْزِ يَحْيَ إِلى الأَبَد. والـخُبْزُ الَّذِي أَنَا أُعْطِيهِ هُوَ جَسَدِي، مِنْ أَجْلِ حَيَاةِ العَالَم".

    wars are not the answer.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    i will give you the same answer to that question that was given by Jesus when He was asked by the crowds about moses:

    30- فَقَالُوا لَهُ: "أَيَّ آيَةٍ إِذًا تَصْنَع، لِنَرَى ونُؤْمِنَ بِكَ؟ مَاذَا تَعْمَل؟
    31- آبَاؤُنَا أَكَلُوا الـمَنَّ في البَرِّيَّة، كَمَا هُوَ مَكْتُوب: أَعْطَاهُم خُبْزًا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ لِيَأْكُلُوا".
    ....
    48- أَنَا هُوَ خُبْزُ الـحَيَاة.
    49- آبَاؤُكُم أَكَلُوا الـمَنَّ في البَرِّيَّة، ومَاتُوا.
    50- هـذَا هُوَ الـخُبْزُ النَّازِلُ مِنَ السَّمَاء، لِيَأْكُلَ مِنْهُ الإِنْسَانُ فلا يَمُوت.
    51- أَنَا هُوَ الـخُبْزُ الـحَيُّ النَّازِلُ مِنَ السَّمَاء. مَنْ يَأْكُلْ مِنْ هـذَا الـخُبْزِ يَحْيَ إِلى الأَبَد. والـخُبْزُ الَّذِي أَنَا أُعْطِيهِ هُوَ جَسَدِي، مِنْ أَجْلِ حَيَاةِ العَالَم".

    wars are not the answer.
    "wars are not the answer." does not answer my well-formed question:

    Did Moses, yes or not, fight for the sake of God?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    "wars are not the answer." does not answer my well-formed question:

    Did Moses, yes or not, fight for the sake of God?
    that part was not the answer, that was the conclusion.

    the answer is in the passage i quoted, the jewish people asked Jesus the same question, did moses not lead our fathers through the wilderness with miracles and victories?
    Jesus answered them your fathers ate the manna falling from the skies and died, but those who eat my flesh shall not perish, but will inherit eternal life.

    the answer may not be to your liking, it wasn't to the liking of the jewish people either.. in fact the bible says that many of Jesus' disciples left Him when he said that.

    65 فقال: لهذا قلت لكم : إنه لا يقدر أحد أن يأتي إلي إن لم يعط من أبي
    66 من هذا الوقت رجع كثيرون من تلاميذه إلى الوراء، ولم يعودوا يمشون معه
    67 فقال يسوع للاثني عشر: ألعلكم أنتم أيضا تريدون أن تمضوا
    68 فأجابه سمعان بطرس: يا رب، إلى من نذهب؟ كلام الحياة الأبدية عندك
    69 ونحن قد آمنا وعرفنا أنك أنت المسيح ابن الله الحي
    70 أجابهم يسوع: أليس أني أنا اخترتكم، الاثني عشر؟ وواحد منكم شيطان
    71 قال عن يهوذا سمعان الإسخريوطي، لأن هذا كان مزمعا أن يسلمه، وهو واحد من الاثني عشر

    war is the wrong answer my friend.
     
    Last edited:
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    (1) The God of Islam is a Monarch on a throne. A material world god. The Evil Yahweh. Who promises pleasures and women.
    It amazes me that Christians have lived in the ME for so long, yet are so mind-numbingly ignorant of Islam. Where’d you learn this crap from, your local evangelical church where they sing “Jesus loves me!” all day?
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    [QUOTE="Dark Angel, post: 2088774, member: 6058”]

    what i pointed out was that God does not need people to fight for Him. worship is a different issue, and God still does not need it, the praise is a choice.[/quote]

    We don’t fight for God, we fight for a Truth. Big difference.
     
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