Ashura, its meaning and impact on Lebanese Shias and Hezbollah

Dark Angel

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
We don’t fight for God, we fight for a Truth. Big difference.
Truth as well has no need for violence. Truth will always emerge triumphant, otherwise it is not truth to begin with; and when you need to resort to violence to implement it, it means it is a compromised truth. Truth's only requirement is for you to be truthful and genuinely honest in your quest.

and on a side note Christianity subscribes to the notion that God is Truth.
Ego Sum Via Veritas et Vita.
 
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  • agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    war is the wrong answer my friend.
    You are avoiding to answer me in a rational way since your answer doesn't answer my simple question at all.

    My simple and well formed question should have for answer either "Yes" or "No" :

    A1. Yes, Moses did fight for the sake of God
    A2. No, Moses didn't fight for the sake of God

    Is A1 true?
    Or is A2 true?

    Mathematically, A1= Non (A2)
    if A1 is false, A2 is necessarily true. and vice versa if P2 is false, P1 is necessarily true.

    Or may be for you, A1 and A2 are both indeterminate !?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You are avoiding to answer me in a rational way since your answer doesn't answer my simple question at all.

    My simple and well formed question should have for answer either "Yes" or "No" :

    A1. Yes, Moses did fight for the sake of God
    A2. No, Moses didn't fight for the sake of God

    Is A1 true?
    Or is A2 true?

    Mathematically, A1= Non (A2)
    if A1 is false, A2 is necessarily true. and vice versa if P2 is false, P1 is necessarily true.

    Or may be for you, A1 and A2 are both indeterminate !?
    i am giving you the answer that Jesus gave, you do not want it. why would you think that my answer should be different when asked the same question?

    Jesus said the following: moses did indeed fight and save his people, but I am giving you a better way for a better life.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    Truth as well has no need for violence. Truth will always emerge triumphant, otherwise it is not truth to begin with; and when you need to resort to violence to implement it, it means it is a compromised truth. Truth's only requirement is for you to be truthful and genuinely honest in your quest.

    and on a side note Christianity subscribes to the notion that God is Truth.
    Ego Sum Via Veritas et Vita.
    Neither Truth nor Allah have hands, so humans have to do the fighting. There is nothing inherently wrong with violence.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    i am giving you the answer that Jesus gave, you do not want it. why would you think that my answer should be different when asked the same question?

    Jesus said the following: moses did indeed fight and save his people, but I am giving you a better way for a better life.
    Thanks for giving me the answer that Jesus gave to another question even if you pretend to be the same question, but this is not what I asked. I asked your answer to my simple and well-formed question.

    To believe in Jesus, Mohammad, Husain, Allah with all due respect and 7afZ 2al 2alqab, I need first to rely and believe in my brain.

    My brain tells me that you are avoiding to answer very likely because you are not confident with your beliefs.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Thanks for giving me the answer that Jesus gave to another question even if you pretend to be the same question, but this is not what I asked. I asked your answer to my simple and well-formed question.

    To believe in Jesus, Mohammad, Husain, Allah with all due respect and 7afZ 2al 2alqab, I need first to rely and believe in my brain.

    My brain tells me that you are avoiding to answer very likely because you are not confident with your beliefs.
    i have given you the answer about 5 times already. here it is again, verbatum:
    "Jesus said the following: moses did indeed fight and save his people, but I am giving you a better way for a better life."
    do i need to use a bigger font? :)

    did moses fight? yes he did. Jesus pointed a different path however.

    but if your mind and heart are set on that fight, as it seems they are, let's not blame that on God, this is your choice.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    i have given you the answer about 5 times already. here it is again, verbatum:
    "Jesus said the following: moses did indeed fight and save his people, but I am giving you a better way for a better life."
    do i need to use a bigger font? :)

    did moses fight? yes he did. Jesus pointed a different path however.

    but if your mind and heart are set on that fight, as it seems they are, let's not blame that on God, this is your choice.
    We are discussing. When I ask a question it is because I am interested in your answer to that question. I am not minor nor under your tutor. So you can not decide what to think on my behalf and decide to give me an answer to another question because it is better following you without answering my question.
    Anyway, you didn't really answer my question: Did Moses fight for the sake of God or not.
    We have agreed that Moses did fight. But did he fight for the sake of God, yes or not.

    We Shias consider that the highest rank is reached (during our life in this Dunya world) when one gives all himself for God and by so always act for the sake of God, as we believe the Prophet Mohammad and his holy family had done during their lives. And God is as per Imam Ali :
    <<
    إلهي ما عبدتك طمعاً في جنتك ولا خوفاً من نارك ولكني وجدتك أهلاً للعبادة فعبدتك
    >>
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    We are discussing. When I ask a question it is because I am interested in your answer to that question. I am not minor nor under your tutor. So you can not decide what to think on my behalf and decide to give me an answer to another question because it is better following you without answering my question.
    Anyway, you didn't really answer my question: Did Moses fight for the sake of God or not.
    We have agreed that Moses did fight. But did he fight for the sake of God, yes or not.

    We Shias consider that the highest rank is reached (during our life in this Dunya world) when one gives all himself for God and by so always act for the sake of God, as we believe the Prophet Mohammad and his holy family had done during their lives. And God is as per Imam Ali :
    <<
    إلهي ما عبدتك طمعاً في جنتك ولا خوفاً من نارك ولكني وجدتك أهلاً للعبادة فعبدتك
    >>
    do you think it was alright for moses to drive a entire population out from their homes and towns and replace them with his own people? what about the original inhabitants, do you think they will tell you it was God's will to be driven out of their homes? if however you think moses was doing God's will, then you should indeed concede israel to the jews, is it not so?

    the real question that you should ask yourself however is whether or not the people defending these cities from the jewish invasion believed that God and Truth were on their side. and this is it in a nutshell, no one goes to war without believing that God is on their side, on both sides. and yet if you ask me, God is as far away from these wars as can be.

    i cannot tell you whether what moses did was condoned by God or not, but i can assure you that the people at the receiving end of the jewish swords are also God's children. for moses offered his people and the rest of the world what little he knew, what little he was given. we however have been fortunate enough and blessed to receive the whole, and we are now in turn offering what little more we know.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    do you think it was alright for moses to drive a entire population out from their homes and towns and replace them with his own people? what about the original inhabitants, do you think they will tell you it was God's will to be driven out of their homes? if however you think moses was doing God's will, then you should indeed concede israel to the jews, is it not so?

    the real question that you should ask yourself however is whether or not the people defending these cities from the jewish invasion believed that God and Truth were on their side. and this is it in a nutshell, no one goes to war without believing that God is on their side, on both sides. and yet if you ask me, God is as far away from these wars as can be.

    i cannot tell you whether what moses did was condoned by God or not, but i can assure you that the people at the receiving end of the jewish swords are also God's children. for moses offered his people and the rest of the world what little he knew, what little he was given. we however have been fortunate enough and blessed to receive the whole, and we are now in turn offering what little more we know.
    I didn't know that Moses did "drive a entire population out from their homes and towns and replace them with his own people". And same I don't know whether what moses did was condoned by God or not. But I believe that HA and the leadership of beloved Iran are acting driven by what they believe to be the right thing to do, and therefore they consider acting and consenting to give so huge sacrifices only for the sake of their moral convictions. Not for the glory of beloved Iran, nor for any personal glory, but only for the glory of God, and the triumph of Peace Truth and Justice that we Muslims worship as we identify them all with God, that we also identify as the supreme wisdom.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    I didn't know that Moses did "drive a entire population out from their homes and towns and replace them with his own people". And same I don't know whether what moses did was condoned by God or not. But I believe that HA and the leadership of beloved Iran are acting driven by what they believe to be the right thing to do, and therefore they consider acting and consenting to give so huge sacrifices only for the sake of their moral convictions. Not for the glory of beloved Iran, nor for any personal glory, but only for the glory of God, and the triumph of Peace Truth and Justice that we Muslims worship as we identify them all with God, that we also identify as the supreme wisdom.
    No, if that was the case, Muslims all over the world would be closely siding with you. So far, the Iranians only have the Shiites on board with their project. You are perceiving Allah and Allah’s aims from a Shiite egoic perspective, which is dangerous because such a course can get in the way of Truth, for Allah is the only Reality.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    No, if that was the case, Muslims all over the world would be closely siding with you. So far, the Iranians only have the Shiites on board with their project. You are perceiving Allah and Allah’s aims from a Shiite egoic perspective, which is dangerous because such a course can get in the way of Truth, for Allah is the only Reality
    I thank you for bothering yourself and making the effort to think on my behalf but I don't need it and I refuse it. I perceive things as I believe in, not as you believe in.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    I thank you for bothering yourself and making the effort to think on my behalf but I don't need it and I refuse it. I perceive things as I believe in, not as you believe in.
    You said it yourself: “I perceive things as I believe in.”

    Of course, you fail to mention that this “I” of yours has been conditioned by ethnicity/sect/language/etc. And then you expect us to believe that your Iranian project reflects the Truth. Laughable. When it comes to Allah, there is no “I.” There is only Him, the Truth, the Reality.

    Your perception of things is nothing but ego, which really explains (as you yourself know) why Shiites are easily offended. They take themselves way too seriously, but this is a testament to their egoic state. And this perfectly explains why Trump keeps outmaneuvering you guys.
     
    agnostic

    agnostic

    Legendary Member
    Laughable. When it comes to Allah, there is no “I.” There is only Him, the Truth, the Reality.
    And of couse you have the accreditation to represent Him and speak on His Name?
    Laughable you said :lol:
     
    V

    vicking747

    New Member
    I thank @Lebanon_not_Arabic for requesting information about Karabala and Ashura and their impact on Shias. Therefore came the idea of this thread.

    Nota Bene : I am not a literary man and my English is quite bad. Some of my sentences may appear too zealous because of my veneration and resolute attachement to Imam Husain and to the legacy of his martyrdom in Karabala.

    Ashura is the alpha and omega for Hezbollah. It is indeed the central key for the attachment of Lebanese Shias to Hezbollah and to SHN, and also the central key to perceive and probe the character and the spirit of HA. I hope this thread could cover all this.

    Ashura is an apotheosis of the confrontation of :
    Holy Family against Devil's lieutenants
    revolution against inertia,
    freedom against enslavement,
    just against unjust,
    good against evil,
    honor against spinelessness,
    virtue against material life,
    faith against treason,
    truth against falseness,
    beauty against ugliness.

    In short it is about worshipping God against worshipping the Golden Calf.

    Here a propaganda video that illustrates very well the impact of Ashrua on Hezbollah.

    View attachment 16023
    So to summarise, It is war. Someone against someone, killings, blood and wars.
    in Christianity anyone following this path would be 100% going against God and his teaching plus will end up in eternal hellfire.

    in Christianity we don’t have ennemies as we are all the children of God, we have no right to judge or punish as this is the role of God. Our Reward is IMMENSE in Heaven because we don’t fail in the evil trap that you guys felt on.

    enjoy your strength on Earth as with God, there will be a harsh punishment for all these teachings that go completely against the message of God and Jesus
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    So to summarise, It is war. Someone against someone, killings, blood and wars.
    in Christianity anyone following this path would be 100% going against God and his teaching plus will end up in eternal hellfire.

    in Christianity we don’t have ennemies as we are all the children of God, we have no right to judge or punish as this is the role of God. Our Reward is IMMENSE in Heaven because we don’t fail in the evil trap that you guys felt on.

    enjoy your strength on Earth as with God, there will be a harsh punishment for all these teachings that go completely against the message of God and Jesus
    Bala maz7a el me2erfeh. Kel terekhkon dam, w atel, w dabe7 w iste2mar w 3obodiyyeh. You will have to exvommuunicate many of your popes.
     
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