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Assisted Dying - Should it be legalized?

Do you support legalizing Assisted Dying in your country?

  • Strongly support - individuals have the right to choose when to end their life

  • Moderately support - terminally ill patients only

  • Moderately support - terminally ill and mental health patients only

  • Oppose - life is sacred and any form of ending life is morally wrong

  • Not sure


Results are only viewable after voting.

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Or was it relief that you no longer had to see him suffer?

Let's be realistic here. Seeing someone suffer does put pressure on your emotional wellbeing.
When you see someone you love suffer, you end up suffering too.
It's a relief for both the patient and his family.

It's less selfish than keeping someone alive against his will, because your religion tells you to do so, if you ask me.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
The message of the Church hasn't changed between pope Francis and his predecessors.

It did though between a focus on condemnation, or rather ignoring these topics, and specifically sending a message of tolerance. Ie the church should be more open to gay people but still considering homosexual acts sinful, the church should welcome divorced individuals instead of shun them, etc.

Anyway I never said his opinions were groundbreaking or revolutionary but they are certainly a lot more nuanced and balanced than just stating "tabagism" sucks and they should burn in hell - why my message singled out our friend justleb lol!- Or like evangelicals in the united states with their homosexual cures and whatnot... When compared to other Christian denominations heyde not other religions even, the Catholic outlook on issues like homosexuality is definitely a lot more accepting of others.

Also side note can you move these posts to the Christianity thread? We're not discussing anything even remotely related to assisted suicide lol
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Let's be realistic here. Seeing someone suffer does put pressure on your emotional wellbeing.
When you see someone you love suffer, you end up suffering too.
It's a relief for both the patient and his family.

Now we're being more honest.

Don't you think that if assisted suicide gets mormalized, sick people who would otherwise wish to live and be taken care of might start to feel selfish vis-à-vis their family; because, they don't have the "courage" to end their life, like others?

Also, don't you think that there are valuable lessons to learn from sharing the pain and suffering of your loved ones, in dignity?
 

SeaAb

Legendary Member
Staff member
Super Penguin
Let's be realistic here. Seeing someone suffer does put pressure on your emotional wellbeing.
When you see someone you love suffer, you end up suffering too.
It's a relief for both the patient and his family.

It's less selfish than keeping someone alive against his will, because your religion tells you to do so, if you ask me.
'His will'. This means shit to some people apparently. It holds no weight whatsoever.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
It did though between a focus on condemnation, or rather ignoring these topics, and specifically sending a message of tolerance. Ie the church should be more open to gay people but still considering homosexual acts sinful, the church should welcome divorced individuals instead of shun them, etc.

Anyway I never said his opinions were groundbreaking or revolutionary but they are certainly a lot more nuanced and balanced than just stating "tabagism" sucks and they should burn in hell! Or like evangelicals in the united states with their homosexual cures and whatnot... When compared to other Christian denominations heyde not other religions even, the Catholic outlook on issues like homosexuality is definitely a lot more accepting of others.

Also side note can you move these posts to the Christianity thread? We're not discussing anything even remotely related to assisted suicide lol

I am happy to end the back and forth. I simply wanted to object to the characterization of the Church, before Francis, of not "reflecting a good image of Christianity, and of not promoting love and above all else."

Tolerance is another matter. Not everything should be tolerated.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
'His will'. This means shit to some people apparently. It holds no weight whatsoever.

You guys don't seem to realize that laws and social conventions are never about individuals' will. There are plenty of things that people "will" to have but cannot; because, they are not socially desirable...the individual gain is not worth the collective loss.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
I am happy to end the back and forth. I simply wanted to object to the caracterization of the Church, before Francis, of not "reflecting a good image of Christianity, and of not promoting love and above all else."

Nuance dearest indie, nuance :p

I said better image not good image; good is good but better is always better :p
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Nuance dearest indie, nuance :p

I said better image not good image; good is good but better is always better :p

I object to the claim that the Church's image was not good enough. :p

It was better then, than it is now. That is...until anti-Christian interest groups started brainwashing people with their propaganda.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
By the way just to clarify, I did not state what those views were in my previous post lol we can discuss this further in the Christianity thread if you want, however I think the pope's views on these subjects promotes a culture of acceptance and tolerance while not opposite to traditional church doctrine, ye3ne he's not saying gay marriage should be celebrated in churches lol but he did say the church should be open to homosexual individuals despite the fact he considers homosexual acts to be sinful, he has also embraced a transgender woman but stated he does not believe gender theory should be taught in schools. I think his views on these matters are more in line with your or dark angel's views than justleb's condemn everything and everyone equally approach.
it promotes a culture of acceptance of the person not the act. and as far as Christianity is concerned that is how it has always been. it doesn't mean that we should look the other way or pretend this is right and this is how it is supposed to be, because that is not the case. it however means that the people in this state should not be shunned away, harassed or oppressed, without encouraging the act. the position on the church on this matter has never change, accept the sinner, reject the sin.

there is an ever widening gap between what people should do and what people want to do. the wider the gap the more miserable and/or people become. the very reason why terms are being redefined and reality is being misrepresented is to give the appearance that the gap is not as wide as it in reality is. that however simply destroys the constructs of reason and consciousness in one's mind. the alignment between what a person wants and what a person should do is the key to a better and happier life as it places the individual in the optimal condition for leading meaningful, happy and joyful life.
 

Resign

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
I object to the claim that the Church's image was not good enough. :p

It was better then, than it is now. That is...until anti-Christian interest groups started brainwashing people with their propaganda.

the Paedophilia and sexual abuse scandals occurred while JPII was Pope

Pedos got embraced
Gays still are rejects

Is the above fair to you?
Don't you think some Christian Dogmas need to be revised according to the principles of the 21st century?

Where is the brainwash and who is the brainwashed?
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Now we're being more honest.

Don't you think that if assisted suicide gets mormalized, sick people who would otherwise wish to live and be taken care of might start to feel selfish vis-à-vis their family; because, they don't have the "courage" to end their life, like others?

Also, don't you think that there are valuae lessons to learn from sharing the pain and suffering of your loved ones, in dignity?

That's really far-fetched. I'm not sure someone who's been exposed to the highest amount of radiation and whose skin fell off his body would seek assisted suicide out of fear of being a burden on his family.

Also, don't you think that there are valuae lessons to learn from sharing the pain and suffering of your loved ones, in dignity?

Yes. The lesson to be learnt is that religious beliefs can be very dangerous.
Pain has a purpose in Christianity. The idea of sharing Jesus's suffering is at the core of Christian beliefs.
"Asking Jesus to share some some of his suffering" is a recurrent theme in the lives of Catholic saints. This why Christians consider pain as a gift from God and willingly accept it.

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the church" - St. Paul

Sane people don't glorify pain.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
'His will'. This means shit to some people apparently. It holds no weight whatsoever.

what i cannot stand about this ya seaab is that you want to approach such subjects as if the first time they were addressed was when you first encountered the headline on cnn.com. the subject has been philosophically addressed for more than 3000 years. there are several opinions on the issue and several schools of thought. some are in favor and some are not, people have the right to present arguments against you without you directly resorting to "this means shit to some people"; this is not an argument.

i wonder what is it you are after in this discussion, people commit suicide around the clock, it is their decision. some consider it an act of heroism, others consider it a very cowardly act; and that's without even bringing religion into the mix. what is so surprising to you in that?
 
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loubnaniTO

Legendary Member
Staff member
Super Penguin
Let’s face it, this is one of the sensitive subjects where there will never be a unanimous agreement on this, especially when religious or ethical beliefs are thrown in the mix. However, here are a few thoughts to keep in mind while debating it:

1- one should never JUDGE those who die by suicide. If we are in a full state of mind, in (relatively) good health, and can (relatively) check in our emotions, this does not give us the right to judge and label others who cannot. If we have not been there we cannot understand what they’re going through

2- suicide has been around throughout the history of humans. It’s not a modern phenomenon. Assisted suicide is not meant to encourage suicide, but rather to ensure it is done in a “safe” and painless way when the person is fully aware of their decision, as opposed to an impulsive decision following a break up. Assisted suicide should be accompanied by an investment in assisted “recovery” for those who are going through depression or psychological hardships
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
That's really far-fetched. I'm not sure someone who's been exposed to the highest amount of radiation and whose skin fell off his body would seek assisted suicide out of fear of being a burden on his family.

Because you think that most people who are near the end of their life are exposed to nuclear radiation?

You don't make decisions based on extreme possibilities but based on what is most likely to occur.

Yes. The lesson to be learnt is that religious beliefs can be very dangerous.
Pain has a purpose in Christianity. The idea of sharing Jesus's suffering is at the core of Christian beliefs.
"Asking Jesus to share some some of his suffering" is a recurrent theme in the lives of Catholic saints. This why Christians consider pain as a gift from God and willingly accept it.

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the church" - St. Paul

Sane people don't glorify pain.

Sane people know that pain is inevitable. Everyone will go through some kind of pain at one point or another. Attempting to avoid it is futile. It will catch up with you one way or another. You might as well learn to deal with it, with courage and dignity; and, to find a purpose for it so that it may not be in vain.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
the Paedophilia and sexual abuse scandals occurred while JPII was Pope

Pedos got embraced
Gays still are rejects

Is the above fair to you?
Don't you think some Christian Dogmas need to be revised according to the principles of the 21st century?

Where is the brainwash and who is the brainwashed?

Right...because some clergy members were involved in scandal, it means all the other clergy members, plus 1.2 million Catholics worldwide, embraced them...
 

Resign

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
Right...because some clergy members were involved in scandal, it means all the other clergy members, plus 1.2 million Catholics worldwide, embraced them...

The church did
Hence no one complained
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
1- one should never JUDGE those who die by suicide. If we are in a full state of mind, in (relatively) good health, and can (relatively) check in our emotions, this does not give us the right to judge and label others who cannot. If we have not been there we cannot understand what they’re going through

You think there aren't countless people who have thought about suicide, been on the verge of it, and chose not to go through with it because they knew it was wrong for various reasons?

Not going through with it doesn't mean they don't know exactly how the pain feels.
 
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