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Dark Angel

Legendary Member
You got it almost right, but only almost :cigar: I suspect you stopped reading somewhere in the beginning of my reply. The reason empires wither from within are usually not because of someone with a shanab dresses in a tannoura thus making it a trend among few m'shannabeen. These guys have only limited impact on the overall survival outlook for a society of our dimension. And neither do these empires collapse because in certain circles they start exercising more sex orgies than a generation before. It is rather because of much deep throat and harmful deficiencies and which people come to tolerate and learn to live-and-let-live with because they balance so subtly on the edge of normality and within the frames of what is legal.

The decay starts with the destruction and loss of credibility of the social contracts, founded on certain moral values that regulate how people deal with each other. When "every man for himself" becomes a rule more than exception, when brother conspires against brother and wife against husband, when the weakest chain (as in the weakest individuals) is neglected and not taken care of. And almost always it starts from top up to bottom down. When the head of the system sways and becomes ripe to fall, the rest of the construction follows down. Few superficial manifestations of odd fetishes caused by sudden mental deviation from the norms do not cause empires to collapse.

Even if you gather the entire population of the lgbt in an independent own country and arm them to their teeth they wouldn't at any rate represent a threat to humanity's ongoing evolution, not even a fart against its progress towards wanting to expand its self-multiplying drive. When I hear people expressing their fears against these people's intentional or unintentional damage against the natural mechanisms for mankind's reproduction, I wonder how come nature itself missed this little detail and produced them after all.

the decay does not come out of the blue. the decay itself is a manifestation of other deeper illnesses that eat away at the foundation of society. brother does not turn against brother and wife does not turn against her husband out of the blue. they do this when morality and ethics dive below the minimum threshold required for man to rise above and tame his imminent desires and primal instincts.

intellectual and cultural decays are a precursor to ethical and moral decline, and that usually occurs when the wealth and power of a nation outgrows its ability to handle and process it. it is at this stage when the population begins to find that its basic physiological needs are met that the masses begin manifesting themselves at higher levels that they are oftentimes not quite ready for. and it is at this stage that morality and ethics suffer a blow if the cultural and ideological pillars are not on par with the economic welfare of the society.

in this day and age, the perversion is not with sexual deviance that has existed throughout all of human history, the perversion is rather in the many groups working to normalize all kinds of perversions, in particular intellectual, cultural and ideological ones. it is at this stage that brother turns on brother, wife turns on husband, and the moral compass of nations stops pointing north.

this is the very reason why gay rights should be approached through no other venue except that of human dignity.
 

Dirty Dragon

Well-Known Member
I said this is no way empirical, I made it clear that this is only my personal experience. Bas usually you can easily spot a homosexual from their eccentric clothes to the way they walk and talk.

Moreover, yes for Gays their sexual orientation is higher in the pecking order than that of a straight man. If you ask a straight dude, you'll never hear the words "I'm straight". On the other hand, gays have different answers.

No see this is your stereotypes talking most of the gay people I've met in my life were not media caricatures! You cannot tell their orientation just by looking at them! Of course I'm not denying that there are some caricatures, but you also have your bro straight males grunting at each other and talking about banging women! Are all straight men limited to this crap? What about arabs? Do we all just yell Allahou akbar and lililili and blow ourselves up? Where do the stereotypes stop ye3ne? Here's a media example actually, the guy who plays Barney Stimson on himym is gay, and the guy who plays cam on modern family is straight!

And no gay people do not introduce themselves by saying hi I'm gay! It took my friend 4 years to finally tell me she was a lesbian! Nor do they advertise their sexual orientation to strangers! You just feel that way because you judge every male in your entourage who exhibits feminine characteristics! And every female who has male characteristics as well!

I know one gay man in Lebanon. Even though we had been introduced a few times before, one time I happened to be with a (not too bad looking) black friend. Every time thereafter we saw each other, he would say "oh yeah I remember you, you were with that black guy the other time".

So caricaturish, you can't make this stuff up.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
I know one gay man in Lebanon. Even though we had been introduced a few times before, one time I happened to be with a (not too bad looking) black friend. Every time thereafter we saw each other, he would say "oh yeah I remember you, you were with that black guy the other time".

So caricaturish, you can't make this stuff up.

Well your friend certainly made an impact!

I met one guy on the street my first week in Paris, didn't really know anyone and he asked if I wanted to have lunch, he was polite, cute and I was hungry so we had lunch together and chatted about nonsense then I had to go meet my old college friend at Starbucks he insisted on coming with so I thought wth, anyway we grabbed coffee and then I had to go home, that's when it all turned to crap! He asked if I wanted to go back to his place I said no thanks, then he asked if he could kiss me, I also said no thanks... Then he got angry started swearing at me called me a tease and a prude and all kinds of crap. Now this guy thought he was entitled to something I certainly was not giving away... Are all straight men mysogynistic pricks who think that just because a woman is nice to them then she will definitely go home with them ? Certainly not, but this Ludovic fella definitely fits this caricature ^_^
 
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Dirty Dragon

Well-Known Member
Well your friend certainly made an impact!

I met one guy on the street my first week in Paris, didn't really know anyone and he asked if I wanted to have lunch, he was polite, cute and I was hungry so we had lunch together and chatted about nonsense then I had to go meet my old college friend at Starbucks he insisted on coming with so I thought wth, anyway we grabbed coffee and then I had to go home, that's when it all turned to crap! He asked if I wanted to go back to his place I said no thanks, then he asked if he could kiss me, I also said no thanks... Then he got angry started swearing at me called me a tease and a prude and all kinds of crap. Now this guy thought he was entitled to something I certainly was not giving away... Are all straight men mysogynistic pricks who think that just because a woman is nice to them then she will definitely go home with them ? Certainly not, but this Ludovic fella definitely fits this caricature ^_^

I wouldn't call that misogynistic, but yes it is rude and deplorable behavior. No not all straight men are like that. Neither do all gay men fit the caricature. That doesn't mean there aren't recurring patterns one can generalize with. In the gay community, it is one such recurring and common pattern to fault their gayness because they use the sexual orientation as an identity.
 

Isabella

The queen of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter
I wouldn't call that misogynistic, but yes it is rude and deplorable behavior. No not all straight men are like that. Neither do all gay men fit the caricature. That doesn't mean there aren't recurring patterns one can generalize with. In the gay community, it is one such recurring and common pattern to fault their gayness because they use the sexual orientation as an identity.

They don't and your example certainly does not illustrate that! When you are discriminated against, you are going to fight back! Their sexual orientation is indeed part of their identity but that's not all there is to homosexual individuals! Just like it's not okay for me to generalise and say that all straight men suck, and are only interested in getting laid even though I certainly had my share of ****ed up straight men walk into and out of my life almost immediately, even dated one abusive asshole for 2 years! but I did marry a straight man and he is literally the most wonderful person I have ever met!

Stereotypes based on sexual orientation, race, gender, what have you are offensive across the board! And it's never okay to generalise ^_^
 

The Bidenator

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
So you're saying the story of Moses and the slavery and emancipation of the Jews are all fiction?

There is zero archaeological evidence for the Exodus, so most likely yes it is fiction. If I were to speculate, the Exodus is based on true events that were blown out of proportion in order to forge and foster a national identity.
 

The Bidenator

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Just a thought that crossed my mind, the world is sustained by fools. Impulsive buyers driven by their inferiority complex, exploited by state of the art marketing is what keeps many multinational companies from going bankrupt.

It's not a surprise that lust, greed and vanity are always being pushed and promoted. In my experience (and this certainly isn't empirical) homosexuals have deep down one of the weakest mentalities I have ever encountered. Obsessed with materialism and sexuality, they are certainly capitalism's favorite slaves.

Just my 2 cents.

Homosexuals in the vast majority of the world's countries and societies would beg to differ.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The places I've visited are already incredibly beautiful, my absolute favourite was ploumanach in Brittany wonderful area and the tide omg the tide was amazing to watch...

But based entirely on what I've visited France is not a country with a single culture, rather a multitude of cultures, every area has a signature dish, special accent, and the people are different

So no long story short I don't think I'll understand what you were talking about regarding protecting the "French culture"

The whole of France is beautiful. And yes, they have regional traditions and specialities, but there is also a definite French thread that unites them all and that can't be compared to other cultures that don't have that common history, language, and other such links.
 

Impera

Active Member
There is zero archaeological evidence for the Exodus, so most likely yes it is fiction. If I were to speculate, the Exodus is based on true events that were blown out of proportion in order to forge and foster a national identity.

If I were to speculate as well, it wouldn't be the last time either.

But the question is, if you admit that the identify is fictitious, why do you subscribe to it?
 

The Bidenator

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
If I were to speculate as well, it wouldn't be the last time either.

But the question is, if you admit that the identify is fictitious, why do you subscribe to it?

I didn't say the identity is fictitious, I said a myth was used to forge it. The identity itself cannot be anymore real, though.
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
the decay does not come out of the blue. the decay itself is a manifestation of other deeper illnesses that eat away at the foundation of society. brother does not turn against brother and wife does not turn against her husband out of the blue. they do this when morality and ethics dive below the minimum threshold required for man to rise above and tame his imminent desires and primal instincts.

intellectual and cultural decays are a precursor to ethical and moral decline, and that usually occurs when the wealth and power of a nation outgrows its ability to handle and process it. it is at this stage when the population begins to find that its basic physiological needs are met that the masses begin manifesting themselves at higher levels that they are oftentimes not quite ready for. and it is at this stage that morality and ethics suffer a blow if the cultural and ideological pillars are not on par with the economic welfare of the society.

in this day and age, the perversion is not with sexual deviance that has existed throughout all of human history, the perversion is rather in the many groups working to normalize all kinds of perversions, in particular intellectual, cultural and ideological ones. it is at this stage that brother turns on brother, wife turns on husband, and the moral compass of nations stops pointing north.

this is the very reason why gay rights should be approached through no other venue except that of human dignity.

It's really simple, the living examples all around talk for themselves.

A society's survival potential, which is determined by not only its ability to resist decay but to develop further, can be predicted by measuring the total sum of its intellectual, moral, ethical, cultural and lastly HR and material assets in relation to its costs. Let us for this discussion name these costs what people may describe as either individuals or groups who seek to normalize all kind of perversions, ranging from sexual ditto to cultural and intellectual.

By example, the Scandinavian countries, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark, are among the top leading countries in the world in many fields and with regard to life expectancy, life quality, medical care, innovative scientific achievements, huge success in all arts (music, film, book writings). In short they are among the most healthy, organized and productive welfare systems ever designed. Yes, the other side of that dandy coin is dull weather with long winters and real suicidal statistics, even if those are pale with comparison to other real statistics in many other countries. In these countries lgbt groups have the most developed rights of them all in the world. So, apparently there's zero correlation between a society's tolerance towards these groups and its survival potential. Rather the opposite someone would argue (even if I personally wouldn't go this far, since tolerating and accepting these groups in itself is most probably not the cause but rather the effect of a society's higher intellectual and cultural success)

Now compare these countries where sexual freedoms and gay or lgbt groups are allowed to exist, with every single retarded decaying country in your own mediterranean/middle eastern neighborhood, including your own. All, these countries, almost without exception, seem to run rapidly towards extinction. In these countries moral values mean only hush hush on sex, all sex, whether homo or heterosexual, they are held so up high they pole the clouds. It is OK to let someone die on the doorstep of a hospital for lack of money, but not OK to watch two gays kiss on the street.

A huge misunderstanding people have about countries where these groups are allowed to lobby freely is that these groups have mushroomed from empty space and come invading the earth like evil aliens. They are not. People, neither homo nor hetero, do not assfuck on the streets of Oslo or Stockholm. Forget about the bullshit clishés talking about polar bears strolling on the streets while people are having sex outside doors in the snow, in the subways, or in church, even if one or two wackos may have done it to only chock and awe ( mostly their own sexual organs). The law still prohibits all sexual activities, let alone perversions, in public places; people do neither hold seminars or teach perversions in schools to kids, many of these "abnormal sexual" acts are still very much taboo in many circles in these countries as well.

Yet, these countries flourish while those with the swaying moral sword against all sexual deviance, decay. And we're talking about the present which also points at the direction of the future.

so, 7allil thoumma naqish this specific conclusion: why countries that tolerate what in your vocabulary are defined as "sexual perversions groups" are both intellectually, morally, scientifically and generally more advanced than those that do not, while many countries that do not, are today racing towards miseries and decay :cigar:
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
It's really simple, the living examples all around talk for themselves.

A society's survival potential, which is determined by not only its ability to resist decay but to develop further, can be predicted by measuring the total sum of its intellectual, moral, ethical, cultural and lastly HR and material assets in relation to its costs. Let us for this discussion name these costs what people may describe as either individuals or groups who seek to normalize all kind of perversions, ranging from sexual ditto to cultural and intellectual.

By example, the Scandinavian countries, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark, are among the top leading countries in the world in many fields and with regard to life expectancy, life quality, medical care, innovative scientific achievements, huge success in all arts (music, film, book writings). In short they are among the most healthy, organized and productive welfare systems ever designed. Yes, the other side of that dandy coin is dull weather with long winters and real suicidal statistics, even if those are pale with comparison to other real statistics in many other countries. In these countries lgbt groups have the most developed rights of them all in the world. So, apparently there's zero correlation between a society's tolerance towards these groups and its survival potential. Rather the opposite someone would argue (even if I personally wouldn't go this far, since tolerating and accepting these groups in itself is most probably not the cause but rather the effect of a society's higher intellectual and cultural success)

Now compare these countries where sexual freedoms and gay or lgbt groups are allowed to exist, with every single retarded decaying country in your own mediterranean/middle eastern neighborhood, including your own. All, these countries, almost without exception, seem to run rapidly towards extinction. In these countries moral values mean only hush hush on sex, all sex, whether homo or heterosexual, they are held so up high they pole the clouds. It is OK to let someone die on the doorstep of a hospital for lack of money, but not OK to watch two gays kiss on the street.

A huge misunderstanding people have about countries where these groups are allowed to lobby freely is that these groups have mushroomed from empty space and come invading the earth like evil aliens. They are not. People, neither homo nor hetero, do not assfuck on the streets of Oslo or Stockholm. Forget about the bullshit clishés talking about polar bears strolling on the streets while people are having sex outside doors in the snow, in the subways, or in church, even if one or two wackos may have done it to only chock and awe ( mostly their own sexual organs). The law still prohibits all sexual activities, let alone perversions, in public places; people do neither hold seminars or teach perversions in schools to kids, many of these "abnormal sexual" acts are still very much taboo in many circles in these countries as well.

Yet, these countries flourish while those with the swaying moral sword against all sexual deviance, decay. And we're talking about the present which also points at the direction of the future.

so, 7allil thoumma naqish this specific conclusion: why countries that tolerate what in your vocabulary are defined as "sexual perversions groups" are both intellectually, morally, scientifically and generally more advanced than those that do not, while many countries that do not, are today racing towards miseries and decay :cigar:

your reply is completely valid if you are presenting it in seclusion of the past that made the scandinavian countries what they are.

let me represent my original point though, when the population is still attempting to secure its basic physiological needs, ie food, lodging, etc, the perversions remain on a personal level as the majority of the population are tending to more pressing needs. however when the basic needs of the people in wealthy countries are met, it is then that they begin attending to the other aspects of their lives; and it is at this stage that the struggle begins between the norm and all sorts of perversions, and this is where the reservoir of intellect and culture plays its role, and its depth determines the susceptibility of the people and how much society could actively withstand before crumbling down once that reservoir is depleted.

the scandinavian countries have been some of the most cultured and civilized countries for the last two centuries, they have a deep reservoir of intellect and culture, and consequently it is quite normal they can withstand quite a bit more than others.

one thing that you are erroneously presenting though is the correlation between sexual freedom, lgbt rights, etc.. and the cultural and intellectual state of the scandinavian countries. contrary to what one would conclude from reading your post, it is not because they allow such freedoms that these countries have become prosperous and beacons for success. it rather the other way around, because these countries have become prosperous and beacons for success, that sexual freedom began manifesting itself, first as heterosexual revolution against the norm, and then as a homosexual revolution also against another norm.

now the question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not the geographical seclusion of the scandinavian countries, which in turn led to cultural isolation, is what enabled these countries to grow intellectually and prosper as they did.
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
your reply is completely valid if you are presenting it in seclusion of the past that made the scandinavian countries what they are.

let me represent my original point though, when the population is still attempting to secure its basic physiological needs, ie food, lodging, etc, the perversions remain on a personal level as the majority of the population are tending to more pressing needs. however when the basic needs of the people in wealthy countries are met, it is then that they begin attending to the other aspects of their lives; and it is at this stage that the struggle begins between the norm and all sorts of perversions, and this is where the reservoir of intellect and culture plays its role, and its depth determines the susceptibility of the people and how much society could actively withstand before crumbling down once that reservoir is depleted.

the scandinavian countries have been some of the most cultured and civilized countries for the last two centuries, they have a deep reservoir of intellect and culture, and consequently it is quite normal they can withstand quite a bit more than others.

one thing that you are erroneously presenting though is the correlation between sexual freedom, lgbt rights, etc.. and the cultural and intellectual state of the scandinavian countries. contrary to what one would conclude from reading your post, it is not because they allow such freedoms that these countries have become prosperous and beacons for success. it rather the other way around, because these countries have become prosperous and beacons for success, that sexual freedom began manifesting itself, first as heterosexual revolution against the norm, and then as a homosexual revolution also against another norm.

now the question that you need to ask yourself is whether or not the geographical seclusion of the scandinavian countries, which in turn led to cultural isolation, is what enabled these countries to grow intellectually and prosper as they did.

Take your time, friend, when you read a long post like mine, this is what I wrote, predicting the misunderstanding ;)

MMM said:
So, apparently there's zero correlation between a society's tolerance towards these groups and its survival potential. Rather the opposite someone would argue (even if I personally wouldn't go this far, since tolerating and accepting these groups in itself is most probably not the cause but rather the effect of a society's higher intellectual and cultural success)

Another misunderstanding, these countries were never secluded, neither geographically and nor culturally. You know the story of the Vikings. From year 700 to 1100 they raided and pillaged western Europe and western Asia. They were steady guests in England, Scotland, Ireland and Gallien. They even engaged in trades with the Turks and arabs. So, no, cultural isolation was never there in the first place to enable them prosperity or intellectual advantage over others. How they ended up being what they are today is the sum of many factors, but they weren't like this all the time, not even a century ago. Homosexuality was "legalized" in the sense accepted and allowed as late as six-seven decades ago, during the forties, but was still officially regarded as a mental disorder, an illness, as late as 1980.

In other words, these people realized they needed to stop persecuting homos way before they materially started to prosper (in the late sixties), which is interesting.

One point I agree on: Sexual diversities, call them anomalies, including all sorts of perversions, tend to surface, multiply and spread at good times, when open societies hit a long period of economical growth. And there's an explanation to that: when all materialistic needs are met, people turn to expand their mental/intellectual potentials. Even in the most morally and ethically conservative societies, these will appear and try their best shots. Some will succeed in various domains, while others won't. The failure to find more intellectually stimulating challenges due to their lazy/unable/ungifted nature, will push these people to seek that expansion through extremes and often end up in banalities, expressed in all sorts of body fixated perversions (like akhouna the non-genit-alien). But this has nothing to do with the physical aspects of homosexuality or other sexual orientation outside the norms. lgbt people will still be there in all societies, at good as well as bad times. The proof of that is the fact that those "sexually abnormals" do actually exist in countries that punish sexual anomalies with death penalty.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
Take your time, friend, when you read a long post like mine, this is what I wrote, predicting the misunderstanding ;)
i read your disclaimer, and i was elaborating about your inference with the "zero correlation" along with how you wouldn't go "this far" when in reality it is a done deal and there is no need to go a single inch in that direction. i was attempting to answer quite fast and i omitted some elements in my reply that i shouldn't have. to elaborate further, and i hope i will do this idea its justice.

it is true the elements with extravagant and abnormal ideas do not parachute down from outer space. these elements were always part of the population, most ideas - abnormal or not - however always lay dormant when the basic needs are not met (feel free to consult the pyramid of maslow for further details on their order.) the emergence of the masses from the struggle to procure their basic needs leaves them quite empty, receptive, and even actively seeking, to fill the gap of meaning. in other words, when everything is provided for, the question that is left, and now what? a question that individuals cannot answer without subscribing to a higher purpose. a reservoir of tradition, ethics, culture and intellect does indeed make the transition quite smoother, and gets people ready, more often than not, to properly continue their progress based on the solid foundation that has been established in the previous level. the troubles begin to occur when that reservoir is empty or gets depleted at a faster rate than what is needed for the masses to re-calibrate their compass for the next stage of the game.

so, with that in mind, you cannot claim zero correlation between a "society's tolerance" - and here i have to point out again that accepting the other is a positive thing by itself, it is not tolerance that i am objecting, it is rather the attempt to normalize wrongs inherently suggested by the term tolerance - and its survival potential; as these movements are a result of and not a component for prosperity, their effect will only begin to manifest itself sometimes towards the future and could take a couple of generations, especially if we rely on historical examples that depict the rise and fall of great nations.

Another misunderstanding, these countries were never secluded, neither geographically and nor culturally. You know the story of the Vikings. From year 700 to 1100 they raided and pillaged western Europe and western Asia. They were steady guests in England, Scotland, Ireland and Gallien. They even engaged in trades with the Turks and arabs. So, no, cultural isolation was never there in the first place to enable them prosperity or intellectual advantage over others. How they ended up being what they are today is the sum of many factors, but they weren't like this all the time, not even a century ago. Homosexuality was "legalized" in the sense accepted and allowed as late as six-seven decades ago, during the forties, but was still officially regarded as a mental disorder, an illness, as late as 1980.
i disagree. these countries were geographically secluded, it doesn't mean they didn't trade with the outside world, it means that their culture was not continuously being diluted by waves of migrants and conquests. their climate was pretty harsh so it made no sense for foreigners to settle down in their midst and bring in new customs etc..


In other words, these people realized they needed to stop persecuting homos way before they materially started to prosper (in the late sixties), which is interesting.
sweden has had a social welfare system for almost three centuries now, look it up, and it was all started and operated by the Church.

at any rate, as i have pointed out, the scandinavian countries have a rather deep reservoir of culture and intellect. they can withstand these transitions much longer. a better example would be the inner cities of the united states, where the most vulnerable groups being blacks and hispanic immigrants. many of these inner cities have turned into ghost towns, gangs are spreading unchecked, families are almost non existent, etc... these are the manifestation of the consequences of being unable to transition correctly to the next level after the physiological needs are met. the reservoir of intellect and culture was depleted quite fast and the whole community collapsed under the weight of what should have been rejected but was not, what should been opposed but was successfully marketed as the norm and the life style.

One point I agree on: Sexual diversities, call them anomalies, including all sorts of perversions, tend to surface, multiply and spread at good times, when open societies hit a long period of economical growth. And there's an explanation to that: when all materialistic needs are met, people turn to expand their mental/intellectual potentials. Even in the most morally and ethically conservative societies, these will appear and try their best shots. Some will succeed in various domains, while others won't. The failure to find more intellectually stimulating challenges due to their lazy/unable/ungifted nature, will push these people to seek that expansion through extremes and often end up in banalities, expressed in all sorts of body fixated perversions (like akhouna the non-genit-alien). But this has nothing to do with the physical aspects of homosexuality or other sexual orientation outside the norms. lgbt people will still be there in all societies, at good as well as bad times. The proof of that is the fact that those "sexually abnormals" do actually exist in countries that punish sexual anomalies with death penalty.

we are in agreement on this. but just to sprinkle my own opinion on top :p a moral compass is always needed to point the direction in which intellectual and cultural progress should evolve instead of that evolution being scattered in all directions.

shouf hal mastara mathalan.
"كنيسة الشيطان" الأولى في العالم سوف تفتح أبوابها قريبا في فرنسا
 
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My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
i disagree. these countries were geographically secluded, it doesn't mean they didn't trade with the outside world, it means that their culture was not continuously being diluted by waves of migrants and conquests. their climate was pretty harsh so it made no sense for foreigners to settle down in their midst and bring in new customs etc..



sweden has had a social welfare system for almost three centuries now, look it up, and it was all started and operated by the Church.

at any rate, as i have pointed out, the scandinavian countries have a rather deep reservoir of culture and intellect. they can withstand these transitions much longer. a better example would be the inner cities of the united states, where the most vulnerable groups being blacks and hispanic immigrants. many of these inner cities have turned into ghost towns, gangs are spreading unchecked, families are almost non existent, etc... these are the manifestation of the consequences of being unable to transition correctly to the next level after the physiological needs are met. the reservoir of intellect and culture was depleted quite fast and the whole community collapsed under the weight of what should have been rejected but was not, what should been opposed but was successfully marketed as the norm and the life style.

A quick reply to only these two paragraphs. With the exception of the 4 years of WWII when Germany occupied Norway and Denmark, and the Soviet parts of Finland - while Sweden has never been occupied by anyone other than a danish king, it is true that these countries were never conquered by non-scnadinavien people, they used to beat and occupy only each other.:)

And one more thing: Oh no, three centuries ago was Sweden like any other European feudal society, run by peasants at the bottom and the nobles on top with the priests in the middle. They were mostly engaged in wars, and at times they occupied part of Russia, in the 1600 or 1700. During those hardships many starved. No welfare systems existed at all. As late as the break of the last century hundreds of thousands of Swedes emigrated mainly to the US for a better life.

But the more important thing to note however is that seclusion and cultural purity (in the sense of begin least diluted by foreign cultural influences ) apparently is not a guaranteed recipe for what makes what you describe as cultural and intellectual reservoir. Even if the Scandinavian countries are the extreme cases in point, most western open societies are as diluted as can be, yet they do compare well on being resilient against decay. From the Canadiens, to the Americans, and the whole western Europe, we can complain about much in these societies, fact remains, they definitely reside on the top of the pyramid. While look at the chinese, they're one of the most secluded people, culturally speaking, yet their achievements are still bleak in comparison. Only lately, say in the last 15-20 years, after they dropped the mao-version of communism, they are starting to excel economically, while morally and ethically they're still light years behind.


Fhimna enno after all Exorcists, Omen and Rosmary's baby movies some disoriented wackos seek to avenge the lost love of papa and mama and the slap on their face they once received when they laughed during a priest's wa3za. But do they really have to call it church? They can call it satan's joura, dig a hole somewhere and crawl down inside and sit there doing some yoga while pouring chicken blood on their hair. Who cares.
You shouldn't care, these are the joke. Real satanists already walk among us and are much worse and more dangerous. Remember my favorite example of moral decay, the one about how people are refused basic human help on the doorstep of a hospital for lack of money? There you have the real satanists.
 

Rock

Well-Known Member
Hi

Its good to see an open mind abou tthis subject
just to give you another perspective, watch this video:

 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
While look at the chinese, they're one of the most secluded people, culturally speaking, yet their achievements are still bleak in comparison.

chinese cultural and scientific achievements were always up there and chinese civilization has withstood so much more pressure than any european nation has.

the mao era is the exception not the rule, because the implementation of communism as a base doctrine decays culture to replace it with a state narrative.
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
chinese cultural and scientific achievements were always up there and chinese civilization has withstood so much more pressure than any european nation has.

the mao era is the exception not the rule, because the implementation of communism as a base doctrine decays culture to replace it with a state narrative.

Our comparison is meant to derive from a culture's moral and ethic values its current status on the scale of general prosperity, with regard to how it treats its sexually "abnormals". In this regard, irrespective of its older and what it went through, the Chinese lag behind when it comes to human respect and other moral and ethical values and considerations, not the least their treatment of the sexual anomalies and their treatment of lgbt people.
 
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