Beirut gay pride 2018 suspended after leader detained by police

SeaAb

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A gay man and victim of sexual abuse by a Chilean priest has said that Pope Francis told him that his sexuality “does not matter" and that "God loves you like this."

Juan Carlos Cruz, who recently spent three days with the pope, told CNNthat the pope made the comments to him in a private conversation.

Cruz said that the pope told him: "You know Juan Carlos, that does not matter. God made you like this. God loves you like this. The pope loves you like this and you should love yourself and not worry about what people say."

If true, the comment would mark an unprecedented shift from the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings, which say that homosexuality is a disorder and should be resisted.

A Vatican spokesman declined to comment, telling CNN that they do not “normally comment on the pope's private conversations."

Cruz visited the Vatican along with two other victims of Chilean priest Fernando Karadima, who was found guilty by the Vatican in 2011.

All 34 of Chile’s Roman Catholic bishops resigned this month over a years-long abuse scandal, after the pope accused them of covering up for Karadima and other abusive priests.
 
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  • loubnaniTO

    loubnaniTO

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    A gay man and victim of sexual abuse by a Chilean priest has said that Pope Francis told him that his sexuality “does not matter" and that "God loves you like this."

    Juan Carlos Cruz, who recently spent three days with the pope, told CNNthat the pope made the comments to him in a private conversation.

    Cruz said that the pope told him: "You know Juan Carlos, that does not matter. God made you like this. God loves you like this. The pope loves you like this and you should love yourself and not worry about what people say."

    If true, the comment would mark an unprecedented shift from the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings, which say that homosexuality is a disorder and should be resisted.

    A Vatican spokesman declined to comment, telling CNN that they do not “normally comment on the pope's private conversations."

    Cruz visited the Vatican along with two other victims of Chilean priest Fernando Karadima, who was found guilty by the Vatican in 2011.

    All 34 of Chile’s Roman Catholic bishops resigned this month over a years-long abuse scandal, after the pope accused them of covering up for Karadima and other abusive priests.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    A gay man and victim of sexual abuse by a Chilean priest has said that Pope Francis told him that his sexuality “does not matter" and that "God loves you like this."

    Juan Carlos Cruz, who recently spent three days with the pope, told CNNthat the pope made the comments to him in a private conversation.

    Cruz said that the pope told him: "You know Juan Carlos, that does not matter. God made you like this. God loves you like this. The pope loves you like this and you should love yourself and not worry about what people say."

    If true, the comment would mark an unprecedented shift from the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings, which say that homosexuality is a disorder and should be resisted.

    A Vatican spokesman declined to comment, telling CNN that they do not “normally comment on the pope's private conversations."

    Cruz visited the Vatican along with two other victims of Chilean priest Fernando Karadima, who was found guilty by the Vatican in 2011.

    All 34 of Chile’s Roman Catholic bishops resigned this month over a years-long abuse scandal, after the pope accused them of covering up for Karadima and other abusive priests.
    Not the first time the Pope's words are taken out of context.
     
    IsaBells

    IsaBells

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    Not the first time the Pope's words are taken out of context.
    His words were actually not taken out of context, this is not the first time he said that homosexuality is natural, not a choice and that homosexual individuals should be tolerated, accepted and loved!
     
    Indie

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    His words were actually not taken out of context, this is not the first time he said that homosexuality is natural, not a choice and that homosexual individuals should be tolerated, accepted and loved!
    You are taking his words out of context as well.

    The stance of the Church is that people with homosexual desires are to be loved, like everyone else. However, intimate relationships should be between a man and a woman who are married to each other.
     
    IsaBells

    IsaBells

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    You are taking his words out of context as well.

    The stance of the Church is that people with homosexual desires are to be loved, like everyone else. However, intimate relationships should be between a man and a woman who are married to each other.
    What follows doesn't matter! The official stance of the church is tolerate the sinner not the sin, the same applies to heterosexual couples, nothing was taken out of context in neither my post nor this article but you should know that already since that has been the official Catholic stance since pope John Paul II with the caveat that people don't choose to be homosexual this is important in the context that other Christian dominations consider being gay is a choice, the Catholic church doesn't - officially speaking - so really what was taken out of context?
     
    IsaBells

    IsaBells

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    What follows doesn't matter! The official stance of the church is tolerate the sinner not the sin, the same applies to heterosexual couples, nothing was taken out of context in neither my post nor this article but you should know that already since that has been the official Catholic stance since pope John Paul II with the caveat that people don't choose to be homosexual this is important in the context that other Christian dominations consider being gay is a choice, the Catholic church doesn't - officially speaking - so really what was taken out of context?
    Denominations* I need that edit fixed already lol
     
    Indie

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    The official stance of the church is tolerate the sinner not the sin, the same applies to heterosexual couples,
    Exactly. Nothing new here. But if this is all that was meant, why make news out of it?

    People are taking the Pope's words and attempting to pass them off as what they are not: acceptance of intimate relationships outside of a heterosexual marriage.
     
    IsaBells

    IsaBells

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    Exactly. Nothing new here. But if this is all that was meant, why make news out of it?

    People are taking the Pope's words and attempting to pass them off as what they are not: acceptance of intimate relationships outside of a heterosexual marriage.
    No they aren't, had that been part of the agenda it would have started with heterosexual couples... I think people are just unfamiliar with the Catholic faith mostly in western media in mostly Anglo Saxon countries and find the pope's stances to be quite tolerant when compared to traditional Christian teachings in those countries... By simply saying to a gay man that God loves him the pope is actually very tolerant in comparison to someone who tells him he is going to burn in hell just for feeling an attraction to someone from the same sex.

    So I guess it comes as a shock when the pope says god made you like this, and I love you like this even if it is followed by you should not act on these urges lol
     
    Indie

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    No they aren't, had that been part of the agenda it would have started with heterosexual couples... I think people are just unfamiliar with the Catholic faith mostly in western media in mostly Anglo Saxon countries and find the pope's stances to be quite tolerant when compared to traditional Christian teachings in those countries... By simply saying to a gay man that God loves him the pope is actually very tolerant in comparison to someone who tells him he is going to burn in hell just for feeling an attraction to someone from the same sex.

    So I guess it comes as a shock when the pope says god made you like this, and I love you like this even if it is followed by you should not act on these urges lol
    If it was just ignorance, it would be one thing...and yeah...maybe for some it's just a case of ignorance...

    However, in many cases, the media are clearly attempting to twist the Pope's words. This is the first result you get if you google "Pope Francis on homosexuality"

    The Pope Francis Statement That Changed the Church on LGBT Issues

    If someone is gay and searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Two years ago Tuesday, Pope Francis uttered these words, sending shockwaves throughout the Catholic Church and the world. His position stood in contrast to that of his predecessors: Months earlier, Pope Benedict XVI suggested that gay marriage was a threat to global peace.

    Under the leadership of Pope Francis, the Catholic Church is evolving on LGBT issues. As theologian David Cloutier has noted, the process isn’t political—it’s spiritual. The church is beginning to discern more deeply the full measure of God’s presence in LGBT individuals and, yes, couples, too.

    The Pope Francis Statement That Changed the Church on LGBT Issues
     
    Dark Angel

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    If it was just ignorance, it would be one thing...and yeah...maybe for some it's just a case of ignorance...

    However, in many cases, the media are clearly attempting to twist the Pope's words. This is the first result you get if you google "Pope Francis on homosexuality"

    The Pope Francis Statement That Changed the Church on LGBT Issues

    If someone is gay and searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Two years ago Tuesday, Pope Francis uttered these words, sending shockwaves throughout the Catholic Church and the world. His position stood in contrast to that of his predecessors: Months earlier, Pope Benedict XVI suggested that gay marriage was a threat to global peace.

    Under the leadership of Pope Francis, the Catholic Church is evolving on LGBT issues. As theologian David Cloutier has noted, the process isn’t political—it’s spiritual. The church is beginning to discern more deeply the full measure of God’s presence in LGBT individuals and, yes, couples, too.

    The Pope Francis Statement That Changed the Church on LGBT Issues
    actually what the headlines were parading is not what the pope said. the pope did not say "it does not matter to be gay". he said the following:

    "If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?" the pope says. "I was paraphrasing by heart the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says that these people should be treated with delicacy and not be marginalized."
    and added
    "I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity," he continues. "And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love."

    and that has been the theological position for ages, and that is quite far from "it does not matter to be gay"

    there is nothing new in the pope's statement, but as you pointed out, scores of people hurry to take things out of context either out of ignorance or out of malice. either way, they are doing a disservice to truth.
     
    loubnaniTO

    loubnaniTO

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    You are taking his words out of context as well.

    The stance of the Church is that people with homosexual desires are to be loved, like everyone else. However, intimate relationships should be between a man and a woman who are married to each other.
    for the purpose of procreation, and without using contraception.. right?
     
    IsaBells

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    for the purpose of procreation, and without using contraception.. right?
    Of course any other type of sex is sinful but at least in this scenario heterosexual and homosexual couples are judged equally :p
     
    Indie

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    for the purpose of procreation, and without using contraception.. right?
    Yes :)

    Gays are not being singled out. There are plenty of rules about sexuality that apply to straight people.

    That's why the Pope and the Church have no hate towards gay people. The latter might be breaking some rules, but so are most straight people. It would be hypocritical to point the finger in one direction.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    for the purpose of procreation, and without using contraception.. right?
    Just a little clarification...it's not "sex is for the purpose of creation" but rather "the sexual act should always leave the door open to procreation."

    There are many reasons for this, but one of them was very well described by Pope Paul VI in 1968: "...a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection."

    If you think about the hollywood sexual assault scandal, the #metoo movement, and all the girls being taken advantage of by their boyfriends or casual sex partners, it is undeniable that pope Paul VI was right.

    Ironically, feminists hate the Church for being "patriarchal" but they are now demanding what the Church had provided in the past: regulation in the relationships between men and women.
     
    Red Phoenix

    Red Phoenix

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    It hard to find love when u identify as an apache attack helicopter and the LGBTQ+ community refuses to accept your reality
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    A group of activists raised rainbow flags from boats near Raouché rock, to celebrate the International Day Against Homophobia.

    Awlkon hol 3alemet yom el 2yemeh?

    SmartSelect_20190518-195602_Instagram.jpg
    SmartSelect_20190518-195541_Instagram.jpg
     
    V

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    people with homosexual desires
    What I can understand from your wordings, people with homosexual desires are people who made that choice while others made a different choice of desire, like God chose his people,
    I'm glad we got that clarified. :cool:
     
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