Boeing 737 Max: The beginning of Boeing demise?

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Boeing should stick to making bombers. They do better job killing people than transporting them.
Can you fill in the table below so we could see if you claim has any value in it?:

Airline | Passengers carried | Passengers killed
---------+--------------------+-------------------
Boeing | |
Airbus | |
Russians | |
Add anything else if I missed it
 
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  • Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    Can you fill in the table below so we could see if you claim has any value in it?:

    Airline | Passengers carried | Passengers killed
    ---------+--------------------+-------------------
    Boeing | |
    Airbus | |
    Russians | |
    Add anything else if I missed it
    How do i read this? ?
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    Can you fill in the table below so we could see if you claim has any value in it?:

    Airline | Passengers carried | Passengers killed
    ---------+--------------------+-------------------
    Boeing | |
    Airbus | |
    Russians | |
    Add anything else if I missed it
    You're right. Trade people's safety for money. The glory of capitalism!

     
    Mrsrx

    Mrsrx

    Somehow a Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Can you fill in the table below so we could see if you claim has any value in it?:

    Airline | Passengers carried | Passengers killed
    ---------+--------------------+-------------------
    Boeing | |
    Airbus | |
    Russians | |
    Add anything else if I missed it















































































































    Airbus A300 1436 Fatalities
    Airbus A310 700 Fatalities
    Airbus A320 1014 Fatalities
    Airbus A321 377 Fatalities
    Airbus A330 338 Fatalities
    ATR 42/72 675 Fatalities
    Boeing 737 4186 Fatalities
    Boeing 737 Next Gen 589 Fatalities
    Boeing 747 3713 Fatalities
    Boeing 757 572 Fatalities
    Boeing 767 851 Fatalities
    Boeing 777 540 Fatalities
    BAe 146 / Avro RJ 298 Fatalities
    Beech 1900D 19 Fatalities
    Canadair Regional Jet 164 Fatalities
    McDonnell Douglas DC-10 780 Fatalities
    Dash 8 129 Fatalities
    Embraer 120 Brasilia 55 Fatalities
    Embraer 135/145 22 Fatalities
    Embraer 190/195 75 Fatalities
    Fokker 70/100 179 Fatalities
    Fokker 50 7 Fatalities
    Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 233 Fatalities
    McDonnell Douglas MD-11 237 Fatalities
    McDonnell Douglas MD-80/90 1266 Fatalities
    Concorde 109 Fatalities
    Sukhoi SuperJet 100 45 Fatalities
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    You are hopeless!
    mods can you please delete my posts from this thread as they seem useless.
    Live and learn;)
    The actual topic is about an airplane manufacturer that was trusted by millions only to find out it's cutting corners intentionally to save money wile risking people's lives. There is a difference between unintended mistakes and criminal acts.
    For someone telling us Boeing has a good safety record therefore they can cash it out now by allowing a certain number of passengers to die in order to make more money is simply criminal.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Live and learn;)
    The actual topic is about an airplane manufacturer that was trusted by millions only to find out it's cutting corners intentionally to save money wile risking people's lives. There is a difference between unintended mistakes and criminal acts.
    For someone telling us Boeing has a good safety record therefore they can cash it out now by allowing a certain number of passengers to die in order to make more money is simply criminal.
    "For someone telling us Boeing has a good safety record therefore they can cash it out now by allowing a certain number of passengers to die" - who's telling you that.
     
    V

    Viral

    Member

    Trump offers advice to Boeing on 737 MAX planes: 'REBRAND'


    Donald Trump


    President Donald Trump on Monday suggested aviation giant Boeing ditch the designation for its crash-plagued 737 MAX planes and rename the aircraft once a critical software issue is fixed and the planes are able to fly again.
    “What do I know about branding, maybe nothing (but I did become President!), but if I were Boeing, I would FIX the Boeing 737 MAX, add some additional great features, & REBRAND the plane with a new name,” Trump wrote in a tweet. “No product has suffered like this one. But again, what the hell do I know?”
    The 737 MAX series planes were grounded worldwide last month after one of the planes crashed shortly after takeoff in Ethiopia, killing everyone on board and drawing comparisons to another deadly crash involving the same model in October.
    At issue, according to preliminary crash reports for both fatal flights, was a flaw in the plane’s automation software. The crashes have renewed scrutiny of the Federal Aviation Administration’s approval process, parts of which have been outsourced to aircraft manufacturers. It has also spawned questions about how much Boeing knew about the glitch, prompting demands for congressional hearings on both issues.
    The U.S. was one of the last major countries to ground the planes, with the FAA initially resisting such a move until it said new data collected from the site of the Ethiopian Airlines crash merited grounding the jetliners.
    The FAA is conducting a review of the planes and has insisted they will remain grounded until the agency can ensure the effectiveness of the eventual software fix. In the meantime, U.S. carriers like American Airlines and Southwest Airlines have continued to cancel flights through August due to the grounding.
    Boeing has registered more than 7,700 orders for the MAX from air carriers around the world.
    After last month’s crash, but before the U.S. issued its grounding order, Trump laid the blame on the industry’s technological advances, complaining in a tweet that “pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT.”
    That insistence from Trump prompted a personal phone call from Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg, who the company said assured the president the MAX planes were safe to fly.
    Trump later said that he didn’t think Boeing knew how to fix the software glitch but that he hoped the planes were grounded only “for a short period of time”, and he spoke highly of the company, whose former leader he tapped to lead the Pentagon.
    “It’s a truly great company. Hopefully they’ll figure it out very quickly. It was a big decision, also one of our largest exporters,” he said. “One of our truly great companies of the world.”
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    Here is the true story: Instead of redesigning a very old model to compete with Airbus advanced technology, Boeing chose to save money using band aides on its outdated B-737 until enough disasters happen.
    It's all in this viral video:
     
    V

    Viral

    Member

    Boeing Knew About Safety-Alert Problem for a Year Before Telling FAA, Airlines
    The problem kept a safety feature found on earlier models from functioning on the 737 MAX
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    Engineers say Boeing pushed to limit safety testing in race to certify planes, including 737 MAX

    The first flight of the Boeing 737 MAX 9, the second version of the MAX airplane, lands at Boeing Field in Seattle on April 13, 2017. The certification of the 737 MAX airplane has come under intense scrutiny after 346 people died in crashes off Indonesia and in Ethiopia. (Mike Siegel / The Seattle Times)


    In 2016, as Boeing raced to get the 737 MAX certified by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), a senior company engineer whose job was to act on behalf of the FAA balked at Boeing management demands for less stringent testing of the fire-suppression system around the jet’s new LEAP engines.
    That June he convened a meeting of all the certification engineers in his unit, who collectively agreed with his assessment. Management initially rejected their position, and only after another senior engineer from outside the MAX program intervened did managers finally agree to beef up the testing to a level the engineer could accept, according to two people familiar with the matter.
    But his insistence on a higher level of safety scrutiny cost Boeing time and money.
    Less than a month after his peers had backed him, Boeing abruptly removed him from the program even before conducting the testing he’d advocated.
    The episode underscores what The Seattle Times found after a review of documents and interviews with more than a dozen current and former Boeing engineers who have been involved in airplane certification in recent years, including on the 737 MAX: Many engineers, employed by Boeing while officially designated to be the FAA’s eyes and ears, faced heavy pressure from Boeing managers to limit safety analysis and testing so the company could meet its schedule and keep down costs.
    That pressure increased when the FAA stopped dealing directly with those designated employees — called “Authorized Representatives” or ARs — and let Boeing managers determine what was presented to the regulatory agency.
    “The ARs have nobody supporting them. Nobody has their backs,” said one former Authorized Representative who worked on the 737 MAX and who provided details of the engineer’s removal from the program. “The system is absolutely broken.”
    FAA-designated oversight engineers are supposed to enjoy protection from management pressure. Removing one who proves a stickler for safety regulations will inevitably produce a chilling effect on others who see the consequences of being too rigid about safety concerns, said John Goglia, former member of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).
    “It negates the whole system,” said Goglia. “The FAA should have come down on that really hard.”
    Following two deadly 737 MAX crashes off the coast of Indonesia and in Ethiopia that killed 346 people, and the subsequent grounding of the airplane worldwide, the certification of the jet has come under intense scrutiny, including a slew of lawsuits, congressional hearings and a criminal investigation.
    None of the people interviewed were involved in certifying the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, the flight-control software implicated in the two crashes. But one area of scrutiny is sure to be the delegated system under which Boeing employees, paid by the company but acting as FAA designees, did the detailed certification work. It may slow down plans by the FAA and Boeing for a future certification regimen that would further erode the FAA’s oversight.


    Boeing, in a statement responding to Seattle Times questions, said that FAA procedures, including regular, FAA-mandated training, “ensure Boeing employees serving in this capacity act independently on behalf of the FAA.”
    It added that “there are processes in place to carefully evaluate any concerns regarding the AR’s ability to act independently.” The company declined to comment on individual cases cited in this story.
    Yet as the FAA has increasingly delegated certification tasks to Boeing itself, it’s also made changes to the reporting structure that leave its designees to fend for themselves inside the company.
    While a few former employees involved in certifications said they handled the pressure as a regular part of the job, others described the work environment as hostile, focused on achieving FAA approval within schedule and cost targets. Some of those workers spoke on condition of anonymity to protect professional relationships or for fear of retribution.
    This echoes the findings of a Seattle Times investigation in March of what happened on the FAA side of the MAX certification. Within the FAA, its safety engineers worked under constant pressure from their managers to delegate more and more work to Boeing itself, and to speedily approve the safety assessments the Boeing designees came up with.
    On the Boeing side of that process, the removal of the senior engineer acting as an FAA Authorized Rep was an extreme example that highlights the broader negative impact of two changes: The FAA no longer appoints its own ARs, instead leaving that to Boeing. And these designees now rarely interact with the FAA directly, according to former Boeing ARs interviewed by The Times.
    They said these changes have stripped them of protection and given managers more opportunity to push for shortcuts.
    In a statement, the FAA said it oversees the Boeing certification system “to ensure procedures are followed.” The agency also said it has “received no whistleblower complaints or any other reports … alleging pressure to speed up 737 MAX certification.”
    Boeing managers are supposed to undergo “undue pressure” training to ensure that they aren’t crossing boundaries with the FAA’s representatives. And some ARs said that, despite some tensions, their managers were respectful of the role.
    Fred Stong, an AR who worked on electrical systems at Boeing, said his experience was that everyone works through differences to reach common ground. He said he was always assertive in his role and didn’t face any problems.
    “At no time in my career would anybody dare to pressure me,” Stong said.
    Yet the former AR on the MAX said managers overseeing that jet’s certification were “extremely aggressive” about anything that affected the program cost or schedule.
    “Managers were pounding on the ARs to get what the company needs in terms of reduced testing,” he said. “If it costs the company time and money, they’d pound on you to change the test design.”
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    So much about America's corporate culture. Not the first time Boeing unjustly blames the (dead) pilots who can't defend themselves to cover up technical defects while secretly searching for the fix. Sadly enough, the FAA let Boeing get away with it for economic reasons and the airlines back up Boeing against their own pilots because they don't want to incur losses grounding their planes while waiting for a fix that might take months or even years while flying relatively unsafe airplanes. There was another mysterious crash where Boeing and the media conveniently rushed into suggesting the pilots committed a suicide act..
     
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