Budget, the Economy and Social Welfare under PMA and the Government

Is Lebanon better economically under PMA with these actions

  • Yes because of Oil

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Yes because of Budget passed

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Yes because of Salaries Scale

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Yes because of fighting corruption

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Yes because of international conferences

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Yes because of big projects including private sector

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Yes because of Social Security for all

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • No because School Tuitions are raising

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • No because because all are corrupted

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • No because no jobs are created

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • No because of taxes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Perhaps

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • PMA is ok but situation too bad and corrupted to get better

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • It is the fault of Syrian Refugees

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • I don’t care , I m leaving this country or already left

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • Total voters
    11
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  • ForeverOrange

    ForeverOrange

    Well-Known Member
    I was watching ali hassan Khalil on tv. I am amazed that the minister of finance in a poor indebted country like Lebanon is sporting a Patek Phillippe nautilus 5912-g which retails at $47,000. I wish somebody could ask him how he paid for it and if it was a gift: was it disclosed and from who and in return for what.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    When FPM was fighting corruption, the majority of Lebanese were and still voting for or against Wali Fakih...
    True, and others voted for FM, PSP, AMAL, etc.
    That is why lots of us supported, campaigned and voted for the FPM.....when it "was fighting corruption".
    Now that it's embracing it, allowing it to pass, turning a blind eye, I see no reason to continue offering this support.
    So, ma 7adan yghabber 3a sermeyet tayyar... the only party that is making difference in governance since Taef despite all the wars declared on it from close ones before the far
    Dude, tayyar ghabbar 3ala sermeyto w 3ala charafo all by themselves.

    When they decided to ally with the most corrupt parties in the history of this country.
    When they stopped shouting when a whiff of corruption case showed.
    When they supported and agreed to contracts that destroy our environment.
    When they turned a blind eye on theft, abuse of power and corruption.
    When they started going against anyone who criticise them after supporting these same people who criticised their opponents in the past.
    When they became just another Lebanese party, with Bassil inheriting the leadership.
    When they justify alliances that go against everything they stood for.
    When their anti-corruption minister basically takes our money without doing his job.
    When the minister of environment has done nothing for a year which led to a health and environmental disaster.

    Do you want me to keep going on?
    The fact that you can't see this is baffling.
    Or the fact that you and others have lowered your standards to accept any of the above is sad.

    Wlak Jamil el sayyed is going to be FPM's ally and not one official from the FPM had the courage to say a single word about it.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    I was watching ali hassan Khalil on tv. I am amazed that the minister of finance in a poor indebted country like Lebanon is sporting a Patek Phillippe nautilus 5912-g which retails at $47,000. I wish somebody could ask him how he paid for it and if it was a gift: was it disclosed and from who and in return for what.
    Shhhh, ma te7ke 3an el 7alif.
    Halla2 el 3awniyye byiz3alo.

    They will come up with an explanation like: it was given to him as a gift or he worked hard for it or chou ra2iss Venezuela a7san?
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Expanding the economy
    How?
    Using the same numbers that same minister used last year?
    The same numbers that were about 50% off????

    Wlak how can you still believe that this guy can do something positive for the country?
    How can you still believe any word he says???

    Tell me something, if you had a manager in your company who makes mistake after mistake, costing the company millions, when you also know that he lies, cheats and steals.......would you trust any report he gives you? Would you keep him or let him go?
     
    L

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    How?
    Using the same numbers that same minister used last year?
    The same numbers that were about 50% off????

    Wlak how can you still believe that this guy can do something positive for the country?
    How can you still believe any word he says???

    Tell me something, if you had a manager in your company who makes mistake after mistake, costing the company millions, when you also know that he lies, cheats and steals.......would you trust any report he gives you? Would you keep him or let him go?
    Not finance minister
    By launching a new 16 billions infrastructure plan
    Plus create software companies
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    True, and others voted for FM, PSP, AMAL, etc.
    That is why lots of us supported, campaigned and voted for the FPM.....when it "was fighting corruption".
    Now that it's embracing it, allowing it to pass, turning a blind eye, I see no reason to continue offering this support.

    Dude, tayyar ghabbar 3ala sermeyto w 3ala charafo all by themselves.

    When they decided to ally with the most corrupt parties in the history of this country.
    When they stopped shouting when a whiff of corruption case showed.
    When they supported and agreed to contracts that destroy our environment.
    When they turned a blind eye on theft, abuse of power and corruption.
    When they started going against anyone who criticise them after supporting these same people who criticised their opponents in the past.
    When they became just another Lebanese party, with Bassil inheriting the leadership.
    When they justify alliances that go against everything they stood for.
    When their anti-corruption minister basically takes our money without doing his job.
    When the minister of environment has done nothing for a year which led to a health and environmental disaster.

    Do you want me to keep going on?
    The fact that you can't see this is baffling.
    Or the fact that you and others have lowered your standards to accept any of the above is sad.

    Wlak Jamil el sayyed is going to be FPM's ally and not one official from the FPM had the courage to say a single word about it.
    How do you expect FPM to fight everyone when you and most Lebanese vote against FPM leaving the party with a minority political powers?

    You think FPM likes to be as pragmatic as it is, or it was forced to do so in order to survive because most Lebanese still vote for Berri and Hariri, and these 2 have more powers than FPM?

    How do you expect FPM to prosecute them without giving FPM enough tools to fight? You want FPM to fight like a soldier without weapons.

    It is because of people like you, people who doesn't give it support to FPM, FPM restores to pragmatic politics as it is the only possible way to make some progress in the state politically or economically.

    When you and Berri don't like FPM in power. I don't think it's good for you.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    How do you expect FPM to fight everyone when you and most Lebanese vote against FPM leaving the party with a minority political powers?
    I don't know what "FPM leaving the party with a minority political powers" means.
    But, let me remind you that a LOT of people supported the FPM for years, even after its ill conceived alliancs with Frangieh, Murr and SSNP.
    I was one of them.
    The FPM even lost a lot of votes during the 2005 elections when it decided too ally with the above scum.

    Not everyone is against fighting corruption. There is a big and strong core of Lebanese who want to see this country being cleaned up and their hope was the FPM.....they were right for some time, but when the FPM decided to become another Lebanese party, all hope has faded.
    You think FPM likes to be as pragmatic as it is, or it was forced to do so in order to survive because most Lebanese still vote for Berri and Hariri, and these 2 have more powers than FPM?
    I think the FPM is having a blast.
    No one has forced the FPM to vote for Berri in the latest speaker elections.
    The first time, it stood strongly opposed to him and gained a lot of respect, support and vote. After that.....it went downhill.
    I'm not saying that you shouldn't work with other partners, you just don't have to ally with them or allow them to get more seats.
    If you're forced, you do things reluctantly. The FPM is being active in bringing back FM, AMAL and their likes.

    How do you expect FPM to prosecute them without giving FPM enough tools to fight? You want FPM to fight like a soldier without weapons.
    The FPM is unable to fight them now that it's allied with them.
    At least before they had legitimacy and support from the people.
    How do you expect the FPM to prosecute its allies??? The same people it helped bring back to power??

    The biggest proof is that, after allying with the same guys for years and after being given tools (justice ministry and others), it never prosecuted a single person.
    Civil society now is made up of a LOT of ex-FPMers and as you saw during the Beirut elections, they could've toppled Hariri.
    Had the FPM stayed on the right track, it would've easily gotten the support of the people who decided to go for Beirut Madinati.

    Civil Society came as an response to broken promises from the likes of the FPM and others.
    It is because of people like you, people who doesn't give it support to FPM, FPM restores to pragmatic politics as it is the only possible way to make some progress in the state politically or economically.
    Why should I give my support to a party that's no different than others?
    You guys claim that it's different based solely on intentions, not actions.
    I don't hire someone because he wants to fix my house. I hire them because they know and can fix it.

    I gave my support for the FPM, participated in meetings, donated money and time, helped people vote and voted for it myself.
    Years later, it showed me that it's no different from other parties.
    Yes, it did have some good moves, but the past 2 years at least, it erased them all with its ill conceived alliances, its participation in the destruction of our health, its silence over clear corruption cases.
    In 2016, Lebanon was ranked 136th country on the Transparency International corruption index (that's 136 of 180.....the latter being the worse).
    In 2017, we went up to 143.

    How is this an improvement???

    You need to have at least some good arguments with facts to justify supporting the FPM.
    The problem is that on this forum and on other platforms, FPMers want us to support the FPM based on their intentions.
    And if we don't, they blame us for the bad situation in this country.
    I would understand if we decided to vote for Amal rather than FPM.
    But either we didn't vote for anyone at all or for other new/clean groups.

    You are doing what every party in Lebanon has always done: You believe you are the only solution.
    eh, it doesn't work this way.
    Hariri thought he was and Hezbollah and Amal and PSP and LF and Kataeb, etc
    When you and Berri don't like FPM in power. I don't think it's good for you.
    I don't like Berri in power either.
    I can't be associated with someone due to our mutual objection!!!
    I'm fine with the FPM to be in power, if it goes back to its roots.
    Anything less than that and I'm not ready to support then.

    That's like saying you and Assad were against Hariri in power....so that looks bad on you...
    Or you and Israel are against Obama,......means it looks bad on you.
     
    Aoune32!

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    I don't know what "FPM leaving the party with a minority political powers" means.
    But, let me remind you that a LOT of people supported the FPM for years, even after its ill conceived alliancs with Frangieh, Murr and SSNP.
    I was one of them.
    The FPM even lost a lot of votes during the 2005 elections when it decided too ally with the above scum.

    Not everyone is against fighting corruption. There is a big and strong core of Lebanese who want to see this country being cleaned up and their hope was the FPM.....they were right for some time, but when the FPM decided to become another Lebanese party, all hope has faded.

    I think the FPM is having a blast.
    No one has forced the FPM to vote for Berri in the latest speaker elections.
    The first time, it stood strongly opposed to him and gained a lot of respect, support and vote. After that.....it went downhill.
    I'm not saying that you shouldn't work with other partners, you just don't have to ally with them or allow them to get more seats.
    If you're forced, you do things reluctantly. The FPM is being active in bringing back FM, AMAL and their likes.


    The FPM is unable to fight them now that it's allied with them.
    At least before they had legitimacy and support from the people.
    How do you expect the FPM to prosecute its allies??? The same people it helped bring back to power??

    The biggest proof is that, after allying with the same guys for years and after being given tools (justice ministry and others), it never prosecuted a single person.
    Civil society now is made up of a LOT of ex-FPMers and as you saw during the Beirut elections, they could've toppled Hariri.
    Had the FPM stayed on the right track, it would've easily gotten the support of the people who decided to go for Beirut Madinati.

    Civil Society came as an response to broken promises from the likes of the FPM and others.

    Why should I give my support to a party that's no different than others?
    You guys claim that it's different based solely on intentions, not actions.
    I don't hire someone because he wants to fix my house. I hire them because they know and can fix it.

    I gave my support for the FPM, participated in meetings, donated money and time, helped people vote and voted for it myself.
    Years later, it showed me that it's no different from other parties.
    Yes, it did have some good moves, but the past 2 years at least, it erased them all with its ill conceived alliances, its participation in the destruction of our health, its silence over clear corruption cases.
    In 2016, Lebanon was ranked 136th country on the Transparency International corruption index (that's 136 of 180.....the latter being the worse).
    In 2017, we went up to 143.

    How is this an improvement???

    You need to have at least some good arguments with facts to justify supporting the FPM.
    The problem is that on this forum and on other platforms, FPMers want us to support the FPM based on their intentions.
    And if we don't, they blame us for the bad situation in this country.
    I would understand if we decided to vote for Amal rather than FPM.
    But either we didn't vote for anyone at all or for other new/clean groups.

    You are doing what every party in Lebanon has always done: You believe you are the only solution.
    eh, it doesn't work this way.
    Hariri thought he was and Hezbollah and Amal and PSP and LF and Kataeb, etc

    I don't like Berri in power either.
    I can't be associated with someone due to our mutual objection!!!
    I'm fine with the FPM to be in power, if it goes back to its roots.
    Anything less than that and I'm not ready to support then.

    That's like saying you and Assad were against Hariri in power....so that looks bad on you...
    Or you and Israel are against Obama,......means it looks bad on you.
    I have to agree on some of the points. I think FPM is still the best party by far BUT it needs to get back to its roots. People will support FPM more and respect them if they didn't ally with Murr, Fattouch and the likes. It is not only about getting MPs. FPM needs to get back to the average joe not the business men with ties.
     
    L

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    I don't know what "FPM leaving the party with a minority political powers" means.
    But, let me remind you that a LOT of people supported the FPM for years, even after its ill conceived alliancs with Frangieh, Murr and SSNP.
    I was one of them.
    The FPM even lost a lot of votes during the 2005 elections when it decided too ally with the above scum.

    Not everyone is against fighting corruption. There is a big and strong core of Lebanese who want to see this country being cleaned up and their hope was the FPM.....they were right for some time, but when the FPM decided to become another Lebanese party, all hope has faded.

    I think the FPM is having a blast.
    No one has forced the FPM to vote for Berri in the latest speaker elections.
    The first time, it stood strongly opposed to him and gained a lot of respect, support and vote. After that.....it went downhill.
    I'm not saying that you shouldn't work with other partners, you just don't have to ally with them or allow them to get more seats.
    If you're forced, you do things reluctantly. The FPM is being active in bringing back FM, AMAL and their likes.


    The FPM is unable to fight them now that it's allied with them.
    At least before they had legitimacy and support from the people.
    How do you expect the FPM to prosecute its allies??? The same people it helped bring back to power??

    The biggest proof is that, after allying with the same guys for years and after being given tools (justice ministry and others), it never prosecuted a single person.
    Civil society now is made up of a LOT of ex-FPMers and as you saw during the Beirut elections, they could've toppled Hariri.
    Had the FPM stayed on the right track, it would've easily gotten the support of the people who decided to go for Beirut Madinati.

    Civil Society came as an response to broken promises from the likes of the FPM and others.

    Why should I give my support to a party that's no different than others?
    You guys claim that it's different based solely on intentions, not actions.
    I don't hire someone because he wants to fix my house. I hire them because they know and can fix it.

    I gave my support for the FPM, participated in meetings, donated money and time, helped people vote and voted for it myself.
    Years later, it showed me that it's no different from other parties.
    Yes, it did have some good moves, but the past 2 years at least, it erased them all with its ill conceived alliances, its participation in the destruction of our health, its silence over clear corruption cases.
    In 2016, Lebanon was ranked 136th country on the Transparency International corruption index (that's 136 of 180.....the latter being the worse).
    In 2017, we went up to 143.

    How is this an improvement???

    You need to have at least some good arguments with facts to justify supporting the FPM.
    The problem is that on this forum and on other platforms, FPMers want us to support the FPM based on their intentions.
    And if we don't, they blame us for the bad situation in this country.
    I would understand if we decided to vote for Amal rather than FPM.
    But either we didn't vote for anyone at all or for other new/clean groups.

    You are doing what every party in Lebanon has always done: You believe you are the only solution.
    eh, it doesn't work this way.
    Hariri thought he was and Hezbollah and Amal and PSP and LF and Kataeb, etc

    I don't like Berri in power either.
    I can't be associated with someone due to our mutual objection!!!
    I'm fine with the FPM to be in power, if it goes back to its roots.
    Anything less than that and I'm not

    ready to support then.
    "الصحة": تخفيض في اسعار الادوية يصل الى 70 في المئة وتصحيح في جعالة الصيادلة
    Another major achievement


    That's like saying you and Assad were against Hariri in power....so that looks bad on you...
    Or you and Israel are against Obama,......means it looks bad on you.
    Another major achievement people win
    "الصحة": تخفيض في اسعار الادوية يصل الى 70 في المئة وتصحيح في جعالة الصيادلة
     
    JustLeb

    JustLeb

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    How do you expect FPM to fight everyone when you and most Lebanese vote against FPM leaving the party with a minority political powers?

    You think FPM likes to be as pragmatic as it is, or it was forced to do so in order to survive because most Lebanese still vote for Berri and Hariri, and these 2 have more powers than FPM?

    How do you expect FPM to prosecute them without giving FPM enough tools to fight? You want FPM to fight like a soldier without weapons.

    It is because of people like you, people who doesn't give it support to FPM, FPM restores to pragmatic politics as it is the only possible way to make some progress in the state politically or economically.

    When you and Berri don't like FPM in power. I don't think it's good for you.

    this is you :D
    Watch only for 30sec

    PS. I hope you appreciate the comment, it took me a full hour to find it. I saw the movie when I was a kid, I didn't know its name nor any of its actors :D

     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    I don't know what "FPM leaving the party with a minority political powers" means.
    But, let me remind you that a LOT of people supported the FPM for years, even after its ill conceived alliancs with Frangieh, Murr and SSNP.
    I was one of them.
    The FPM even lost a lot of votes during the 2005 elections when it decided too ally with the above scum.

    Not everyone is against fighting corruption. There is a big and strong core of Lebanese who want to see this country being cleaned up and their hope was the FPM.....they were right for some time, but when the FPM decided to become another Lebanese party, all hope has faded.

    I think the FPM is having a blast.
    No one has forced the FPM to vote for Berri in the latest speaker elections.
    The first time, it stood strongly opposed to him and gained a lot of respect, support and vote. After that.....it went downhill.
    I'm not saying that you shouldn't work with other partners, you just don't have to ally with them or allow them to get more seats.
    If you're forced, you do things reluctantly. The FPM is being active in bringing back FM, AMAL and their likes.


    The FPM is unable to fight them now that it's allied with them.
    At least before they had legitimacy and support from the people.
    How do you expect the FPM to prosecute its allies??? The same people it helped bring back to power??

    The biggest proof is that, after allying with the same guys for years and after being given tools (justice ministry and others), it never prosecuted a single person.
    Civil society now is made up of a LOT of ex-FPMers and as you saw during the Beirut elections, they could've toppled Hariri.
    Had the FPM stayed on the right track, it would've easily gotten the support of the people who decided to go for Beirut Madinati.

    Civil Society came as an response to broken promises from the likes of the FPM and others.

    Why should I give my support to a party that's no different than others?
    You guys claim that it's different based solely on intentions, not actions.
    I don't hire someone because he wants to fix my house. I hire them because they know and can fix it.

    I gave my support for the FPM, participated in meetings, donated money and time, helped people vote and voted for it myself.
    Years later, it showed me that it's no different from other parties.
    Yes, it did have some good moves, but the past 2 years at least, it erased them all with its ill conceived alliances, its participation in the destruction of our health, its silence over clear corruption cases.
    In 2016, Lebanon was ranked 136th country on the Transparency International corruption index (that's 136 of 180.....the latter being the worse).
    In 2017, we went up to 143.

    How is this an improvement???

    You need to have at least some good arguments with facts to justify supporting the FPM.
    The problem is that on this forum and on other platforms, FPMers want us to support the FPM based on their intentions.
    And if we don't, they blame us for the bad situation in this country.
    I would understand if we decided to vote for Amal rather than FPM.
    But either we didn't vote for anyone at all or for other new/clean groups.

    You are doing what every party in Lebanon has always done: You believe you are the only solution.
    eh, it doesn't work this way.
    Hariri thought he was and Hezbollah and Amal and PSP and LF and Kataeb, etc

    I don't like Berri in power either.
    I can't be associated with someone due to our mutual objection!!!
    I'm fine with the FPM to be in power, if it goes back to its roots.
    Anything less than that and I'm not ready to support then.

    That's like saying you and Assad were against Hariri in power....so that looks bad on you...
    Or you and Israel are against Obama,......means it looks bad on you.
    You got lot of wishful thinking there. I would like to know what would the civil society do with their handful mps? They are delivering lots of promises, right? Just like what FPM did before having their mps...

    I mean what is your projection of civil society having a handful of mps in the Parliament. What do you expect them to do? How can they achieve their promises when being a tiny minority? Don't they have to work with other mps? If they do, would you call them corrupts because they are dealing with the other supposed to be "corrupted" mps, just as you are calling FPM now? What if they got enough mps to join the cabinet, and this cabinet is formed by Hariri. If they got an offer and entered such cabinet, what would be your take on them?
     
    Last edited:
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    this is you :D
    Watch only for 30sec

    PS. I hope you appreciate the comment, it took me a full hour to find it. I saw the movie when I was a kid, I didn't know its name nor any of its actors :D

    Instead of wasting posts for personal attacks, wouldn't it better for you either ignore my post if you think it's stupid, or have a counter-argument if you think I have valid points to be discussed?
     
    JustLeb

    JustLeb

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Instead of wasting posts for personal attacks, wouldn't it better for you either ignore my post if you think it's stupid, or have a counter-argument if you think I have valid points to be discussed?
    it is not a personal attack my dear, you know I don't do that
    it was meant to be a joke !
    I will explain it to you: you are ready for the ultimate sacrifice to defend Bassil :)
     
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