Burj Hammoud Municipality Issues Official Documents in Armenian

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Mighty Goat

Mighty Goat

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Actually, I think instead of crying over Armenian being included as a govt or official language, it is best you campaign for the inclusion of Hebrew or the reviving of Aramaic, since you claim Jewish heritage and are proud of it. Your grandparents, as you claim, became Shia by choice because they didn't want to be stateless. So both Arabic and Shia Islam were adopted by your family. You shouldn't find any problem, either adopting Armenian language or orthodox Christianity. You're cultural fluid. You can swing any way!

On a serious note, the problem of minority communities being present everywhere and the small geographic size of Lebanon are reasons for having a modern and fair electoral law that will see Lebanon become a one electoral district with proportional representation (one man=one vote anywhere in Lebanon). It is enough upholding racist and sectarian laws (electoral or otherwise) that will see Lebanese citizens become alien or voiceless in their own country. If a Shia in Burj Hammoud has to vote for an Armenia, it should be based on choice and not law imposing on him. Similarly, if a Shia in Tyre district (the bedrock of Amal/HA constituents) want to vote for a Sunni MP in Tripoli, or a Maronite in Batroun or a Shia in Jbeil or a Druze in Chouf, he should be able to. The parliament is a reflection of all of Lebanon. Politics and elections should be competitive, transparent and fair. Not sectarian, divisive and crooked. The MPs represent the nation. And I should be able, as Lebanese, to vote for any other Lebanese contesting for a political office. That simple but hard for our greedy and divisive politician warlords to accept and implement.
Must'arab Jews spoke Syriac Arabic before Islam. My family did not adopt Shi'a Islam. It was a matter of surviving in our land paper work.
 
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  • Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Actually, I think instead of crying over Armenian being included as a govt or official language, it is best you campaign for the inclusion of Hebrew or the reviving of Aramaic, since you claim Jewish heritage and are proud of it. Your grandparents, as you claim, became Shia by choice because they didn't want to be stateless. So both Arabic and Shia Islam were adopted by your family. You shouldn't find any problem, either adopting Armenian language or orthodox Christianity. You're cultural fluid. You can swing any way!

    On a serious note, the problem of minority communities being present everywhere and the small geographic size of Lebanon are reasons for having a modern and fair electoral law that will see Lebanon become a one electoral district with proportional representation (one man=one vote anywhere in Lebanon). It is enough upholding racist and sectarian laws (electoral or otherwise) that will see Lebanese citizens become alien or voiceless in their own country. If a Shia in Burj Hammoud has to vote for an Armenia, it should be based on choice and not law imposing on him. Similarly, if a Shia in Tyre district (the bedrock of Amal/HA constituents) want to vote for a Sunni MP in Tripoli, or a Maronite in Batroun or a Shia in Jbeil or a Druze in Chouf, he should be able to. The parliament is a reflection of all of Lebanon. Politics and elections should be competitive, transparent and fair. Not sectarian, divisive and crooked. The MPs represent the nation. And I should be able, as Lebanese, to vote for any other Lebanese contesting for a political office. That simple but hard for our greedy and divisive politician warlords to accept and implement.
    Thanks for a very constructive post and I agree Lebanon should move on to the civil state soon or it will be always politically backwards and may also collapse again.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

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    What would Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Armenians say and how would they react if some Sunnis issue official government documents in Turkish? There are many Lebanese of Turkish origin.
    Great strawman!

    But i’ll indulge you, do these sunnis also practice turkish culture on a daily basis?
    I have a friend of hreek origin, but his daily life does nothing related with greek culture .
    I am of yemenite origin, i don't ask to build mastabas in honor of his higness king Dhammar.

    Point being, armenians preserved their cultural ties, just like bretons did in france and they shouldnt be chastitised for it.
     
    vicking

    vicking

    Well-Known Member
    The Shi'a of Burj Hammoud are the indigenous people of Lebanon.
    They cannot practice their civil and political rights in the Lebanese Parliament because they are Shi'a.
    A Christian group of refugees arrived in Lebanon sometime during the early twentieth century from Armenia and was granted civil and political rights because they are Christian.
    These Armenians refuse to learn the official language of Lebanon.

    Their disrespect to the country and the people of Lebanon can be seen in their unilateral decision to use Armenian, which is a foreign language, without even deliberating or discussing this decision in Parliament.
    Armenian is not understood by the Shi'a constituents of Burj Hammoud. They really had the audacity of issuing official documents with a government stamp in the Armenian language when are all Armenians speak Arabic, and not a single Lebanese speaks Armenian.
    No police officer, parliament member, or citizen can read this document but it seems that the Armenian project is occupation.
    The official language of Lebanon is Arabic and French, and Armenians can not change it without a discussion in the Parliament.
    Sorry but you have no clue of Lebanon history. There is a small portion of Shiaa in Bourj Hammoud but they came in thr 60's, we are talking few hundreds so dont make a big case out of nothing

    Armenians are part of the Lebanese fabric and we should add Armenian as an official language
    Armenians brought a lot to Lebanon and if people like you continue to treat then as foreigners then soon there would be no Armenians left in Lebanon and you will start seeing Syrians and Kurds instead. Well done!
     
    vicking

    vicking

    Well-Known Member
    Thanks for a very constructive post and I agree Lebanon should move on to the civil state soon or it will be always politically backwards and may also collapse again.
    Civil state? Not anymore, the only reason there are Christians left in Lebanon is because the constitution grants us rights and quotas, otherwise we would end up like palestine, jordan or even iraq and Egypt

    Have you been to jordan? I went twice : in 1995 and in 2018 - the difference? Not a single lady does dare to walk in the street without hijab.
    My wife was attacked in the center of Amman and insulted (by women as well) as the only one not with hijab (last time we go there)
    Palestine : do you know why they have canceled the Christmas celebrations in Betlehem? Because since 2008, the authotroty decided tolet everyone come to Betlehem during Christmas (before it was only Christians) in the name of living together... Result? You have hundreds of men sitting nexxt to the Church harrassing all women as they dress well for the church (skirts) shouting, insulting and throwing chwingums at them

    Yeah yeah you are right..... Lets have a secular country. Lets first start in the other regions, wait 25 years and if it works well, then we will think about it
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    What would Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Armenians say and how would they react if some Sunnis issue official government documents in Turkish? There are many Lebanese of Turkish origin.

    Euhhhhhhh...are Lebanese Sunni citizens of Turkish descent? Seriously your arguments are out of this world.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think the shias live in nabaa?
    The majority like 70% are Armenian with some other christians sects with shia and kurds probably about 10%. You can advise if Im wrong.
    I was being sarcastic with my previous post. Of course the people in the video are Armenian.

    And, yes, Nabaa is a Muslim area.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
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    Off topic, but do you notice how much our country was deforested in all the old pictures? Our mountains were like deserts without any greenery.

    What is the reason behind it? Did we use to pay woods in tax to the ottomans? Maybe moderators can open a new topic about this subject.
    It could simply look that way because of the low resolution of old photographs. For example, imagine these photos in black and white or in sepia. The mountains in the distance could appear barren.

     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
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    Sorry but you have no clue of Lebanon history. There is a small portion of Shiaa in Bourj Hammoud but they came in thr 60's, we are talking few hundreds so dont make a big case out of nothing

    Armenians are part of the Lebanese fabric and we should add Armenian as an official language
    Armenians brought a lot to Lebanon and if people like you continue to treat then as foreigners then soon there would be no Armenians left in Lebanon and you will start seeing Syrians and Kurds instead. Well done!
    There is no need to add Armenian as an official language. Armenians in Lebanon learn and use their language, along with Arabic, French, and English. That is enough.

    Don't be bothered by this troll thread. Just laugh it off.
     
    Lebanese-Nationalist

    Lebanese-Nationalist

    Well-Known Member
    I'm baffled by the hate towards the Armenians that comes from the Muslims sometimes. I mean, they're a small fully assimilated minority in Lebanon. They're more "Lebanese" (if you want to put it that way) than many native Lebanese.

    An official document in a small municipality isn't a big deal, let's be honest. The bigger deal is Tripoli feeling like Kandahar and the South/Southern Suburbs looking like Iran!
     
    Lebanese-Nationalist

    Lebanese-Nationalist

    Well-Known Member
    Off topic, but do you notice how much our country was deforested in all the old pictures? Our mountains were like deserts without any greenery.

    What is the reason behind it? Did we use to pay woods in tax to the ottomans? Maybe moderators can open a new topic about this subject.
    Didn't the Turks chop down every other tree in Lebanon to build their stupid railway to Mecca?
     
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    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    I'm baffled by the hate towards the Armenians that comes from the Muslims sometimes. I mean, they're a small fully assimilated minority in Lebanon. They're more "Lebanese" (if you want to put it that way) than many native Lebanese.

    An official document in a small municipality isn't a big deal, let's be honest. The bigger deal is Tripoli feeling like Kandahar and the South/Southern Suburbs looking like Iran!
    Pure envy. Armenians came as refugees after marching through a desert with literally only the clothes they were wearing. Now they are proportionally speaking as successful as Maronites. While those Muslims who complain about them are the usual typical lazy Muslim who don't contribute to nothing, who expect everything to be handed over to them.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Who is your manfiyou?
    Many people of this region are in exile all these refugees are in exile..
    Most of us were uprooted from our own homeland to far away land and this is why many of us have hard time accepting this harsh reality and are in constant nostalgic mood.

    Only time will tell how strong this connection will remain and whether it will pass to future generation or not!
    I believe we have all the ingredients for it to pass to the many coming future generations :artist:

    This is why I have respect for Armenian not saying they don't have their issues we all do but they held strong to their culture and language despite all the difficulties!
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    It could simply look that way because of the low resolution of old photographs. For example, imagine these photos in black and white or in sepia. The mountains in the distance could appear barren.

    Wow Lebanon used to be to achingly beautiful ;(
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Orange Room Supporter
    Wow Lebanon used to be to achingly beautiful ;(
    Surprisingly, there are still places that look like that. I have the pictures to prove it. You just have to drive a little. And I don't mean on the highway :p
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    The Shi'a of Burj Hammoud are the indigenous people of Lebanon.
    They cannot practice their civil and political rights in the Lebanese Parliament because they are Shi'a.
    A Christian group of refugees arrived in Lebanon sometime during the early twentieth century from Armenia and was granted civil and political rights because they are Christian.
    These Armenians refuse to learn the official language of Lebanon.

    Their disrespect to the country and the people of Lebanon can be seen in their unilateral decision to use Armenian, which is a foreign language, without even deliberating or discussing this decision in Parliament.
    Armenian is not understood by the Shi'a constituents of Burj Hammoud. They really had the audacity of issuing official documents with a government stamp in the Armenian language when are all Armenians speak Arabic, and not a single Lebanese speaks Armenian.
    No police officer, parliament member, or citizen can read this document but it seems that the Armenian project is occupation.
    The official language of Lebanon is Arabic and French, and Armenians can not change it without a discussion in the Parliament.
    you never miss an opportunity to drive a wedge between Lebanese factions and turn them against each other wherever and whenever you can. one day you are from nabatiyeh lecturing on differences between the mtewle and the shi3a, the next you are from karantina accusing the armenians of occupation. one day you claim to be jewish, the next you claim to be shiite, the next god knows what.

    why on earth do you find it to be so offensive that armenians use their own language in their publications? you spend your days attacking anyone who questions the diversity of canada. but when that diversity manifests itself in Lebanon it becomes an armenian occupation; despite the fact that these armenians have been in Lebanon for more than a century now, while the foot steps you left in the snow when you first arrived to canada have not melted yet.
    The Shi'a of Burj Hammoud are the indigenous people of Lebanon.
    They cannot practice their civil and political rights in the Lebanese Parliament because they are Shi'a.
    A Christian group of refugees arrived in Lebanon sometime during the early twentieth century from Armenia and was granted civil and political rights because they are Christian.
    These Armenians refuse to learn the official language of Lebanon.

    Their disrespect to the country and the people of Lebanon can be seen in their unilateral decision to use Armenian, which is a foreign language, without even deliberating or discussing this decision in Parliament.
    Armenian is not understood by the Shi'a constituents of Burj Hammoud. They really had the audacity of issuing official documents with a government stamp in the Armenian language when are all Armenians speak Arabic, and not a single Lebanese speaks Armenian.
    No police officer, parliament member, or citizen can read this document but it seems that the Armenian project is occupation.
    The official language of Lebanon is Arabic and French, and Armenians can not change it without a discussion in the Parliament.
    so in canada it is a symbol of encouraged diversity and rich multiculturalism, but in Lebanon it is an armenian occupation.

    is it not an interesting observation that you never miss an opportunity to set Lebanese factions against each other? there are entire neighborhoods in the US and canada were people live for generations without speaking any english or french. there are even locations named after foreign countries. how would you take it if the armenians pushed for the name "little armenia" instead of burj hammoud as is the case with "chinatowns" in canada or "little china" and "little italy" in new york and elsewhere?

    armenians are model citizens, they pay their taxes, contribute to the economy, they keep to their business, they contribute to the effective diversity of Lebanon all while preserving their culture. you ought to learn from them. this is what multiculturalism is about, it is not about destroying one particular host civilization but rather about enriching the whole.
     
    MELF

    MELF

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    The Shi'a of Burj Hammoud are the indigenous people of Lebanon.

    Maybe, maybe not. The issue is irrelevant because it doesn't matter whether one is indigenous or not; what's infinitely more important is having the Lebanese ID.

    I suspect there are indigenous Lebanese who cannot practice their civic duties, but that would be because they lack Lebanese ID (for one reason or another) and not because of their indigenous status.

    They cannot practice their civil and political rights in the Lebanese Parliament because they are Shi'a.
    False. Shiites can vote for Christian MPs. Lebanese law doesn't specify that each sect votes for its own representatives. Thst is what the Orthodox law proposed.

    A Christian group of refugees arrived in Lebanon sometime during the early twentieth century from Armenia and was granted civil and political rights because they are Christian.
    These Armenians refuse to learn the official language of Lebanon.
    Nonsense.
    Armenians learn Arabic in school too. Why are you advocating Arabizing/colonizing them?

    Their disrespect to the country and the people of Lebanon can be seen in their unilateral decision to use Armenian, which is a foreign language, without even deliberating or discussing this decision in Parliament.
    Nothing disrespectful in using Armenian on official documents, and it needs no parliamentary deliberation as it is a local issue (Lebanon's lack of decentralization and federalism make this latter point open for debate).

    Armenian is not understood by the Shi'a constituents of Burj Hammoud. They really had the audacity of issuing official documents with a government stamp in the Armenian language when are all Armenians speak Arabic, and not a single Lebanese speaks Armenian.
    I am going to take a guess here and claim Burj Hammoud Municipality also issues documents in Arabic.

    PS, make up your mind. Armenians can either refuse to learn the language of Lebanon, or they can all speak Arabic. It can't be both.

    No police officer, parliament member, or citizen can read this document but it seems that the Armenian project is occupation.
    Armenian police officers, parliament members, and citizens can read this document.
    It is intended for Armenian citizens.

    The official language of Lebanon is Arabic and French, and Armenians can not change it without a discussion in the Parliament.
    Indeed, the official language of Lebanon is Arabic (thanks to Arab colonization), and no one -- let alone Armenians -- are seeking to change it.

    Issuing documents in a foreign language doesn't change official language of the country. California has over 10 languages that you can request documents in. Most are issued in English and Spanish.

    Too many squigglies. Is that your problem with Armenian?
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
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    I am going to take a guess here and claim Burj Hammoud Municipality also issues documents in Arabic.
    Of course they do :)

    The Arabic version of the document is linked below the Armenian one :)

     
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