Burj Hammoud Municipality Issues Official Documents in Armenian

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Aoune32!

Aoune32!

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This is why article 95 of the Constitution should be applied. The case of Burj is special, because another ethnic group is represented in Parliament and this ethnic group i.e Armenians does not work for the public good of not only the Shi'a but also the Kurds. The condition is rather racial exclusion and not sectarian.
Racism is what carachterizes the Armenian relations with non Armenian population of Burj Hammoud.
The non Armenian population of Burj Hammoud are totally excluded from benefits and spending.
This is not the case whitin areas that are Lebanese. Lebanese MP's do not distinguish between Muslim and Christian. Armenians do discriminate against non Armenian constituents in Burj Hammoud.
Might goat do you know how Lebanon is formed? Do you know what happens with these MPs? They represent the whole nation is a joke. They represent their sect buddy. In Bent Jbeil masalan where the maronite vote is like 12K there is no spending in these areas. They literally stayed in their lands, worked hard and didnt go to other areas. same as baalbeck, sour, nabatiyeh, and other muslim majority areas.
 
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  • Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    Might goat do you know how Lebanon is formed? Do you know what happens with these MPs? They represent the whole nation is a joke. They represent their sect buddy. In Bent Jbeil masalan where the maronite vote is like 12K there is no spending in these areas. They literally stayed in their lands, worked hard and didnt go to other areas. same as baalbeck, sour, nabatiyeh, and other muslim majority areas.
    I didn't understand ! There should be a budget for fixing roads and providing basic services, like fixing the sewerage, correct?
    What I saw in Burj Hammoud was a system of segregation, streets where Armenians live are cleaned and streets where non Armenians live are horrible. The discrimination is evident. This you don't see in Baabda for example which is also mixed Christian and Muslim but all are Lebanese.
     
    Aoune32!

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    I didn't understand ! There should be a budget for fixing roads and providing basic services, like fixing the sewerage, correct?
    What I saw in Burj Hammoud was a system of segregation, streets where Armenians live are cleaned and streets where non Armenians live are horrible. The discrimination is evident. This you don't see in Baabda for example which is also mixed Christian and Muslim but all are Lebanese.
    Yes but you see this in christian areas in Bent Jbeil, akkar, baalbeck etc. What you are seeing in majority christian bourj is the same as muslim majority bent jbeil
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    Yes but you see this in christian areas in Bent Jbeil, akkar, baalbeck etc. What you are seeing in majority christian bourj is the same as muslim majority bent jbeil
    You mean to say Christians in Bent Jbeil don't receive any public services because they don't have representation, if so then this system is not working.
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    This is why article 95 of the Constitution should be applied. The case of Burj Hammoud is special, because another ethnic group is represented in Parliament and this ethnic group i.e Armenians does not work for the public good of not only the Shi'a but also the Kurds. The condition is rather racial exclusion and not sectarian.
    Racism is what carachterizes the Armenian relations with non Armenian population of Burj Hammoud.
    The non Armenian population of Burj Hammoud are totally excluded from benefits and spending.
    This is not the case whitin areas that are Lebanese. Lebanese MP's do not distinguish between Muslim and Christian. Armenians do discriminate against non Armenian constituents in Burj Hammoud.
    Can you stay on topic... Now, you are accusing a whole community of racism... Do you have something against the Armenians? Initially, we thought you have problem with @Indie . Was the basterma too hot and spicy?
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    I didn't understand ! There should be a budget for fixing roads and providing basic services, like fixing the sewerage, correct?
    What I saw in Burj Hammoud was a system of segregation, streets where Armenians live are cleaned and streets where non Armenians live are horrible. The discrimination is evident. This you don't see in Baabda for example which is also mixed Christian and Muslim but all are Lebanese.
    Why is Dahieh so filthy then despite the flow of Iranian money?

    Have you ever toured the South or the Bekaa? Christian villages are much cleaner and prettier on average, and it's got nothing to do with money. It's rather due to the lack of anti-litter awareness among the Muslim populace. Sanitation isn't very high on their list of priorities.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    ,
    Why is Dahieh so filthy then despite the flow of Iranian money?

    Have you ever toured the South or the Bekaa? Christian villages are much cleaner and prettier on average, and it's got nothing to do with money. It's rather due to the lack of anti-litter awareness among the Muslim populace. Sanitation isn't very high on their list of priorities.
    I don't think that Muslim is dirty and Christian is clean is an argument I would entertain, but I think that the observation that when one goes into people's houses and see them spotless and then go out in the street and see people litter was something I observed in Christian and Muslim Lebanon. Robert Fisk presents an argument that is not far from my own conclusions. It is the illegitimacy of the systems of government in the Arab World that makes people not think that they own the street. Yet again we cannot detach this issue from the sectarian system of government and the problem of national identity in the case of Lebanon. I think that the ambiance we are getting in this very thread by bullies who support the system is just a small example of a general sense of not caring about the public space that is called the state.

    Why does life in the Middle East remain rooted in the Middle Ages? By Robert Fisk

    According to a UN report, the global improvement in living standards has passed much of the Arab world by. Robert Fisk explains why
    Why is the Arab world – let us speak with terrible sharpness – so backward? Why so many dictators, so few human rights, so much state security and torture, so terrible a literacy rate?
    Why does this wretched place, so rich in oil, have to produce, even in the age of the computer, a population so poorly educated, so undernourished, so corrupt? Yes, I know the history of Western colonialism, the dark conspiracies of the West, the Arab argument that you cannot upset the sheikhs and the kings and the autocrats, the imams and the emirs when the “enemy is at the gates”. There is some truth to that. But not enough truth.
    Once more the United Nations Development Programme has popped up with yet one more, its fifth, report that catalogues – via Arab analysts and academics, mark you – the retarded state of much of the Middle East. It talks of “the fragility of the region’s political, social, economic and environmental structures… its vulnerability to outside intervention”. But does this account for desertification, for illiteracy – especially among women – and the Arab state which, as the report admits, is often turned “into a threat to human security, instead of its chief support”?
    As Arab journalist Rami Khouri stated bleakly last week: “How we tackle the underlying causes of our mediocrity and bring about real change anchored in solid citizenship, productive economies and stable statehood, remains the riddle that has defied three generations of Arabs.” Real GDP per capita in the region – one of the statistics which truly shocked Khouri – grew by only 6.4 per cent between 1980 and 2004. That’s just 0.5 per cent annually, a rate which 198 of 217 countries analysed by the CIA World Factbook bettered in 2008. Yet the Arab population – which stood at 150 million in 1980 – will reach 400 million in 2015.
    I notice much of this myself. When I first came to the Middle East in 1976, it was crowded enough. Cairo’s steaming, fetid streets were already jam-packed, night and day, with up to a million homeless living in the great Ottoman cemeteries. Arab homes are spotlessly clean but their streets are often repulsive, dirt and ordure spilling on to the pavements. Even in beautiful Lebanon, where a kind of democracy does exist and whose people are among the most educated and cultured in the Middle East, you find a similar phenomenon. In the rough hill villages of the south, the same cleanliness exists in every home. But why are the streets and the hills so dirty?
    I suspect that a real problem exists in the mind of Arabs; they do not feel that they own their countries. Constantly coaxed into effusions of enthusiasm for Arab or national “unity”, I think they do not feel that sense of belonging which Westerners feel. Unable, for the most part, to elect real representatives – even in Lebanon, outside the tribal or sectarian context – they feel “ruled over”. The street, the country as a physical entity, belongs to someone else. And of course, the moment a movement comes along and – even worse – becomes popular, emergency laws are introduced to make these movements illegal or “terrorist”. Thus it is always someone else’s responsibility to look after the gardens and the hills and the streets.
    And those who work within the state system – who work directly for the state and its corrupt autarchies – also feel that their existence depends on the same corruption upon which the state itself thrives. The people become part of the corruption. I shall always remember an Arab landlord, many years ago, bemoaning an anti-corruption drive by his government. “In the old days, I paid bribes and we got the phone mended and the water pipes mended and the electricity restored,” he complained. “But what can I do now, Mr, Robert? I can’t bribe anyone – so nothing gets done!”

    Even the first UNDP report, back in 2002, was deeply depressing. It identified three cardinal obstacles to human development in the Arab world: the widening “deficit” in freedom, women’s rights and knowledge. George W Bush – he of enduring freedom, democracy, etc etc amid the slaughter of Iraq – drew attention to this. Understandably miffed at being lectured to by the man who gave “terror” a new name, even Hosni Mubarak of Egypt (he of the constantly more than 90 per cent electoral success rate), told Tony Blair in 2004 that modernisation had to stem from “the traditions and culture of the region”.
    Will a solution to the Arab-Israeli war resolve all this? Some of it, perhaps. Without the constant challenge of crisis, it would be much more difficult to constantly renew emergency laws, to avoid constitutionality, to distract populations who might otherwise demand overwhelming political change. Yet I sometimes fear that the problems have sunk too deep, that like a persistently leaking sewer, the ground beneath Arab feet has become too saturated to build on.
    I was delighted some months ago, while speaking at Cairo University – yes, the same academy which Barack Obama used to play softball with the Muslim world – to find how bright its students were, how many female students crowded the classes and how, compared to previous visits, well-educated they were. Yet far too many wanted to move to the West. The Koran may be an invaluable document – but so is a Green Card. And who can blame them when Cairo is awash with PhD engineering graduates who have to drive taxis?
    And on balance, yes, a serious peace between Palestinians and Israelis would help redress the appalling imbalances that plague Arab society. If you can no longer bellyache about the outrageous injustice that this war represents, then perhaps there are other injustices to be addressed. One of them is domestic violence, which – despite the evident love of family which all Arabs demonstrate – is far more prevalent in the Arab world than Westerners might realise (or Arabs want to admit).
    But I also think that, militarily, we have got to abandon the Middle East. By all means, send the Arabs our teachers, our economists, our agronomists. But bring our soldiers home. They do not defend us. They spread the same chaos that breeds the injustice upon which the al-Qa’idas of this world feed. No, the Arabs – or, outside the Arab world, the Iranians or the Afghans – will not produce the eco-loving, gender-equal, happy-clappy democracies that we would like to see. But freed from “our” tutelage, they might develop their societies to the advantage of the people who live in them. Maybe the Arabs would even come to believe that they owned their own countries
    Source: The Independent Online. Tuesday 28 July 2009

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-does-life-in-the-middle-east-remain-rooted-in-the-middle-ages-1763252.html
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    ,


    I don't think that Muslim is dirty and Christian is clean is an argument I would entertain, but I think that the observation that when one goes into people's houses and see them spotless and then go out in the street and see people litter was something I observed in Christian and Muslim Lebanon. Robert Fisk presents an argument that is not far from my own conclusions. It is the illegitimacy of the systems of government in the Arab World that makes people not think that they own the street. Yet again we cannot detach this issue from the sectarian system of government and the problem of national identity in the case of Lebanon. I think that the ambiance we are getting in this very thread by bullies who support the system is just a small example of a general sense of not caring about the public space that is called the state.

    Why does life in the Middle East remain rooted in the Middle Ages? By Robert Fisk

    According to a UN report, the global improvement in living standards has passed much of the Arab world by. Robert Fisk explains why
    Why is the Arab world – let us speak with terrible sharpness – so backward? Why so many dictators, so few human rights, so much state security and torture, so terrible a literacy rate?
    Why does this wretched place, so rich in oil, have to produce, even in the age of the computer, a population so poorly educated, so undernourished, so corrupt? Yes, I know the history of Western colonialism, the dark conspiracies of the West, the Arab argument that you cannot upset the sheikhs and the kings and the autocrats, the imams and the emirs when the “enemy is at the gates”. There is some truth to that. But not enough truth.
    Once more the United Nations Development Programme has popped up with yet one more, its fifth, report that catalogues – via Arab analysts and academics, mark you – the retarded state of much of the Middle East. It talks of “the fragility of the region’s political, social, economic and environmental structures… its vulnerability to outside intervention”. But does this account for desertification, for illiteracy – especially among women – and the Arab state which, as the report admits, is often turned “into a threat to human security, instead of its chief support”?
    As Arab journalist Rami Khouri stated bleakly last week: “How we tackle the underlying causes of our mediocrity and bring about real change anchored in solid citizenship, productive economies and stable statehood, remains the riddle that has defied three generations of Arabs.” Real GDP per capita in the region – one of the statistics which truly shocked Khouri – grew by only 6.4 per cent between 1980 and 2004. That’s just 0.5 per cent annually, a rate which 198 of 217 countries analysed by the CIA World Factbook bettered in 2008. Yet the Arab population – which stood at 150 million in 1980 – will reach 400 million in 2015.
    I notice much of this myself. When I first came to the Middle East in 1976, it was crowded enough. Cairo’s steaming, fetid streets were already jam-packed, night and day, with up to a million homeless living in the great Ottoman cemeteries. Arab homes are spotlessly clean but their streets are often repulsive, dirt and ordure spilling on to the pavements. Even in beautiful Lebanon, where a kind of democracy does exist and whose people are among the most educated and cultured in the Middle East, you find a similar phenomenon. In the rough hill villages of the south, the same cleanliness exists in every home. But why are the streets and the hills so dirty?
    I suspect that a real problem exists in the mind of Arabs; they do not feel that they own their countries. Constantly coaxed into effusions of enthusiasm for Arab or national “unity”, I think they do not feel that sense of belonging which Westerners feel. Unable, for the most part, to elect real representatives – even in Lebanon, outside the tribal or sectarian context – they feel “ruled over”. The street, the country as a physical entity, belongs to someone else. And of course, the moment a movement comes along and – even worse – becomes popular, emergency laws are introduced to make these movements illegal or “terrorist”. Thus it is always someone else’s responsibility to look after the gardens and the hills and the streets.
    And those who work within the state system – who work directly for the state and its corrupt autarchies – also feel that their existence depends on the same corruption upon which the state itself thrives. The people become part of the corruption. I shall always remember an Arab landlord, many years ago, bemoaning an anti-corruption drive by his government. “In the old days, I paid bribes and we got the phone mended and the water pipes mended and the electricity restored,” he complained. “But what can I do now, Mr, Robert? I can’t bribe anyone – so nothing gets done!”

    Even the first UNDP report, back in 2002, was deeply depressing. It identified three cardinal obstacles to human development in the Arab world: the widening “deficit” in freedom, women’s rights and knowledge. George W Bush – he of enduring freedom, democracy, etc etc amid the slaughter of Iraq – drew attention to this. Understandably miffed at being lectured to by the man who gave “terror” a new name, even Hosni Mubarak of Egypt (he of the constantly more than 90 per cent electoral success rate), told Tony Blair in 2004 that modernisation had to stem from “the traditions and culture of the region”.
    Will a solution to the Arab-Israeli war resolve all this? Some of it, perhaps. Without the constant challenge of crisis, it would be much more difficult to constantly renew emergency laws, to avoid constitutionality, to distract populations who might otherwise demand overwhelming political change. Yet I sometimes fear that the problems have sunk too deep, that like a persistently leaking sewer, the ground beneath Arab feet has become too saturated to build on.
    I was delighted some months ago, while speaking at Cairo University – yes, the same academy which Barack Obama used to play softball with the Muslim world – to find how bright its students were, how many female students crowded the classes and how, compared to previous visits, well-educated they were. Yet far too many wanted to move to the West. The Koran may be an invaluable document – but so is a Green Card. And who can blame them when Cairo is awash with PhD engineering graduates who have to drive taxis?
    And on balance, yes, a serious peace between Palestinians and Israelis would help redress the appalling imbalances that plague Arab society. If you can no longer bellyache about the outrageous injustice that this war represents, then perhaps there are other injustices to be addressed. One of them is domestic violence, which – despite the evident love of family which all Arabs demonstrate – is far more prevalent in the Arab world than Westerners might realise (or Arabs want to admit).
    But I also think that, militarily, we have got to abandon the Middle East. By all means, send the Arabs our teachers, our economists, our agronomists. But bring our soldiers home. They do not defend us. They spread the same chaos that breeds the injustice upon which the al-Qa’idas of this world feed. No, the Arabs – or, outside the Arab world, the Iranians or the Afghans – will not produce the eco-loving, gender-equal, happy-clappy democracies that we would like to see. But freed from “our” tutelage, they might develop their societies to the advantage of the people who live in them. Maybe the Arabs would even come to believe that they owned their own countries
    Source: The Independent Online. Tuesday 28 July 2009

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-does-life-in-the-middle-east-remain-rooted-in-the-middle-ages-1763252.html
    Robert Fisk argues that the streets are dirty, because Arabs do not feel that they own their countries.

    If there's anyone who should feel this way, it's Armenians. They are a minority in an Arabic-speaking country.
    Yet, as you admitted yourself, Armenian neighborhoods in Bourj Hammoud are cleaner than non-Armenian ones.
    Mezher, Antelias, Awkar, Zalka are cleaner than any Muslim-majority town.

    Can you explain why Southern villages and the Bekaa are so dirty?
    Do Shiites also feel not at home there, despite being the majority?

    Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that you're right.
    Is it OK for tourists to litter when they visit a foreign country? It's not their country after all.

    Fisk says that Arabs have "coaxed into effusions of enthusiasm for Arab or national “unity”.
    Well, if Muslims prioritize the Islamic Ummah and the Palestinian cause above their countries,
    then they have no one to blame but themselves if they feel no attachment to their land.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    If there's anyone who should feel this way, it's Armenians. They are a minority in an Arabic-speaking country.
    Absolutely false.
    Armenians are Christians in a country where Christians were the majority of government.
    Lebanon and its Armenians was constituted as a state with a Christian majority. This is the political identity.
    Only after the civil war that the 50/50 formula came into existence and the political identity remains to be Christian versus Muslim.

    The Lebanese population is not defined based on ethnicity i.e Arab and non Arab, but on confession, and the Armenians are within the Christian confessional majority that has the right of political representation in Meten, where the Shi'a are the unrepresented minority.
     
    Last edited:
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    This music is kochari, an Armenian dance that is 1000 years old, and part of the unesco cultural heritage :)
    It's awesome to watch. I didn't know Armenia had a synchronized skating team.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    You guys are still trying to reason with Goat?

    Ever since the Syrians / Muslims started moving into bourj hammoud, the place has become so filthy I don't want to step foot there. Only 4-5 years ago, I used to enjoy going there. Now, if I am forced to go, I feel so digusted I need to take a shower and put all my clothes in the wash, right after.

    The only public places that are still clean are the Armenian schools, churches, and community centers. They are not just clean, they are spotless.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    It's awesome to watch. I didn't know Armenia had a synchronized skating team.
    That video is a montage. The skaters are not Armenian. I was making a joke.

    However, the way they are dancing and the synchronized formations are so similar to traditional Armenian dancing that even I was fooled when I first saw the video.

    Armenia does have professional figure skaters though.
     
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    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    That video is a montage. The skaters are not Armenian. I was making a joke.

    However, the way they are dancing and the synchronized formations are so similar to traditional Armenian dancing that even I was fooled when I first saw the video.

    Armenia does have professional figure skaters though.
    LOL yeah it says "Team Canada" in the caption. :lol:
    We should start our own dabkeh on ice.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    LOL yeah it says "Team Canada" in the caption. :lol:
    We should start our own dabkeh on ice.
    That's a good idea!

    Here you can see how similar the skaters' dance formations are to Armenian traditional dancing...especially near the end.

    (Not a professional video so the sound is not the greatest)

     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    Ever since the Syrians / Muslims started moving into bourj hammoud, the place has become so filthy I don't want to step foot there.
    I saw a significant presense of Ethiopians in these filthy areas of Burj Hammoud. I presume that they are Christian, but since they are black they are also segregated with the Shi'a by the Armenian white and Christian majority which is spending tax money on only Armenians.
    Shi'a property owners pay taxes to the municipality with the expectation that it would clean the street, but seemingly, the Armenian officials are spending these taxes on keeping Armenian Churches and schools spotless, while not cleaning the Shi'a and black Christian areas.
    It is the job of the municipality, which is Armenian and also which is collecting taxes to keep the Muslim areas clean and not take the money and spend it only on cleaning white and Armenian areas clean.
    If you are seeing this much filth, it is because of the corruption of the Armenian Municipality of Burj Hammoud, which is the entity responsible for keeping the whole area clean.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Absolutely false.
    Armenians are Christians in a country where Christians were the majority of government.
    Lebanon and its Armenians was constituted as a state with a Christian majority. This is the political identity.
    Only after the civil war that the 50/50 formula came into existence and the political identity remains to be Christian versus Muslim.

    The Lebanese population is not defined based on ethnicity i.e Arab and non Arab, but on confession, and the Armenians are within the Christian confessional majority that has the right of political representation in Meten, where the Shi'a are the unrepresented minority.
    OK I see what you mean. But that's also the case for Christian minorities in the Shouf and the South.
    The electoral system is centered on the qada2 not a specific town. Bourj Hammoud may have a sizeable Shiite population, but they are a minority in Metn.

    Why are you so preoccupied with the rights of Shiites/Metwalis (whatever you prefer to call them) if you claim to be a secular Jew?
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    I saw a significant presense of Ethiopians in these filthy areas of Burj Hammoud. I presume that they are Christian, but since they are black they are also segregated with the Shi'a by the Armenian white and Christian majority which is spending tax money on only Armenians.
    Shi'a property owners pay taxes to the municipality with the expectation that it would clean the street, but seemingly, the Armenian officials are spending these taxes on keeping Armenian Churches and schools spotless, while not cleaning the Shi'a and black Christian areas.
    It is the job of the municipality, which is Armenian and also which is collecting taxes to keep the Muslim areas clean and not take the money and spend it only on cleaning white and Armenian areas clean.
    If you are seeing this much filth, it is because of the corruption of the Armenian Municipality of Burj Hammoud, which is the entity responsible for keeping the whole area clean.
    The Armenian schools and churches are private. The municipality does not clean them.

    Quite a coincidence that the level of dirtiness in bourj hammoud increased as more Muslims moved into the area. Go make yourself believe that the municipality suddenly stopped cleaning to spite the newcomers.
     
    Mrsrxmas

    Mrsrxmas

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    every time i click on this thread
     
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