can the hatred directed towards Gebran Bassil be rationalized?

CitizenOfTheRepublic

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
Spare me the BS, I am not a fan of Bassil at all and his appointment as leader in FPM is IMHO is one of the main reason my support for FPM dwindled down. But the focus on him is even more reason for me to view the "revolution" very skeptically.
There are many reason he is vilified more than usual but here are the main ones:
  • He is not beatified by the Patriarch so he is open game unlike his holiness Riad Salemeh, the sunni sa7abas Saniora and Hariri and the Imam Berri or God-sent SHN.
  • FPMers in general are more likely to listen then to start hitting naysayers as opposed to all the rest from Kataeb to LF to Anal to HA to FMers etc.
  • All the opposing media outlets and speakers are very well coordinated and highly skilled in their attacks, repeating his name day in day out on everything negative. Not an hour of news passes by without hearing his name. The least skilled of them, such as Fares Souaid, clumsily exhibits strategy
  • The FPM media outlets are inept
  • The FPM leadership is a PR nightmare, uncoordinated, inefficient, never once have they dictated the media discourse. Always on the defensive
  • The FPM leadership and GB in specific are clumsy, never thinking of the PR ramifications of their moves
  • The leadership of opposing parties much more PR savvy
  • GB is in general not likable, it's just his character. Some people are charismatic, he simply is not.
Add all of that together and you have your answer. No one else in Lebanese politics checks all these boxes. Even assuming they are all at the same level of corruption, which is a far cry from reality considering all the other a-holes had a headstart of 20+ years of unopposed rule, he is the only one that is so hated.
 
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  • cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    Not all those who dislike GB have same motives or reasons; we cannot really then find 1 single rational to fit all.

    You have those who simply like and hate whoever their boss tells them to like or hate without even using a tiny bit of their brain to make a personal decision (and that applies to many in all factions and parties). You also have those who "love" or hate someone just because they are stubborn and get admit they were wrong. These type of people is not worth analyzing.

    I’ll try to give rationalize on several aspects the detestation of Bassil by those who are more free to make personal opinions:

    Psychological test/Analysis:

    Let us start with a metaphor; assume the following scenario:

    You want to build two houses. For house 1 you hire an architect whom you know has a history of failures and is well renowned to be corrupt, unethical, and fraudulent. For house 2 you hire an architect who has been preaching about ethics, protesting construction frauds, and praising his own CV. You give both the required funds and come back a year later to find out that: House 1 was a complete failure and architect 1 committed all possible frauds, embezzled your money, etc… House 2, surprisingly, in similar case to house 1 as if architect 2 learned from architect 1, your funds were misused, incompetent subcontractors were hired, etc. and the house still way behind schedule and promises

    It is true that both projects are similar failures at this stage, but towards which one will you tend to develop a sense of disgust and hatred? All research shows that we as humans will tend to forget project 1 because it is our fault we hired knowingly a crook. In parallel, we will tend to never forget project 2 and develop a sense of animosity towards architect 2 because he fooled us, and now we feel as victims.

    In this metaphor, Bassil is architect 2 and the remaining political class (or most of it) is architect 1. Bassil over promised and didn’t know how to manage expectations. And about 10 years later, he achieved relatively nothing and provided the public with many reasons to believe he is as corrupt as the others.

    Personality:

    Many, if not all, of us agree that Bassil does not have any charisma. On top of that, when I “survey” friends and family about him the same feedback comes back repeatedly: he always sounds condescending.

    I have personally met him twice in semi-private meetings, once in early 2000s and once late 2009. Both times, I felt that the man suffers from Napoleon complex and is arrogant. These are not the qualities of a likeable leader in 21st century.

    I was not surprised when I learnt that he, (probably during a flare of his megalomania), used public funds to print and distribute a self-promoting book/cartoon,

    Ascent:

    His ascent to power made many feel he was a spoiled kid, or the “teacher’s pet”. Have you ever seen in any school around the world a “teacher’s pet” who is liked by his peers? They only like him when they need him. GMA and FPM broke all of their principles just to accommodate bassil:

    “Those who fail in elections can’t be minister”…. Except bassil

    “Mps should not be ministers”… except bassil

    “we are a modern party with internal democracy, blablabla, not like any other Lebanese party”… party rules changed and modified to ensure Bassil becomes head of FPM just like any other Lebanese party

    “we are against nepotism”… except when it comes to bassil

    Blocking formation of government for months just for bassil as if FPM didn’t have any other talent

    Should I continue?

    My point is that even if Bassil really merits all what he was given on a silver plate, the general feeling is that he was forced down the throat of many FPMers and Lebanese in general especially when it came from a party and a person who claimed to follow modern, western style democracy and is all about change and reform.

    Achievements

    Yes, probably he achieved few things, but to be fair so did some other ministers from all other parties… none of his achievements were spectacular.

    And please please please, stop blaming others of sabotage; sounds like “a dog ate my homework” approach! If that was true then an honest and ethical person would simply call a press conference put out all the facts (documented facts) and names and who did what and how did they not let him work and then resign. Otherwise he simply shares the guilt and the blame; even worst, people don’t like cowards and hypocrites.

    Flip flopping

    Accuse someone of corruption then name him PM
    Accuse someone of "baltaji" then elect him head of parliament
    Accuse others of corruption then partner with them and shut up about their corruption
    Remind people of the wounds of the war and the crimes of some then make deals with the criminals and war lords
    Calling governments unconstitutional because they didn't present a budget then participate in many governments without presenting a budget
    and the list goes on.... People hate those who flip flop continuously

    In conclusion

    When you lose your credibility, when your let your people feel fooled, they dislike and even hate you
     
    JustLeb

    JustLeb

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Not all those who dislike GB have same motives or reasons; we cannot really then find 1 single rational to fit all.

    You have those who simply like and hate whoever their boss tells them to like or hate without even using a tiny bit of their brain to make a personal decision (and that applies to many in all factions and parties). You also have those who "love" or hate someone just because they are stubborn and get admit they were wrong. These type of people is not worth analyzing.

    I’ll try to give rationalize on several aspects the detestation of Bassil by those who are more free to make personal opinions:

    Psychological test/Analysis:

    Let us start with a metaphor; assume the following scenario:

    You want to build two houses. For house 1 you hire an architect whom you know has a history of failures and is well renowned to be corrupt, unethical, and fraudulent. For house 2 you hire an architect who has been preaching about ethics, protesting construction frauds, and praising his own CV. You give both the required funds and come back a year later to find out that: House 1 was a complete failure and architect 1 committed all possible frauds, embezzled your money, etc… House 2, surprisingly, in similar case to house 1 as if architect 2 learned from architect 1, your funds were misused, incompetent subcontractors were hired, etc. and the house still way behind schedule and promises

    It is true that both projects are similar failures at this stage, but towards which one will you tend to develop a sense of disgust and hatred? All research shows that we as humans will tend to forget project 1 because it is our fault we hired knowingly a crook. In parallel, we will tend to never forget project 2 and develop a sense of animosity towards architect 2 because he fooled us, and now we feel as victims.

    In this metaphor, Bassil is architect 2 and the remaining political class (or most of it) is architect 1. Bassil over promised and didn’t know how to manage expectations. And about 10 years later, he achieved relatively nothing and provided the public with many reasons to believe he is as corrupt as the others.

    Personality:

    Many, if not all, of us agree that Bassil does not have any charisma. On top of that, when I “survey” friends and family about him the same feedback comes back repeatedly: he always sounds condescending.

    I have personally met him twice in semi-private meetings, once in early 2000s and once late 2009. Both times, I felt that the man suffers from Napoleon complex and is arrogant. These are not the qualities of a likeable leader in 21st century.

    I was not surprised when I learnt that he, (probably during a flare of his megalomania), used public funds to print and distribute a self-promoting book/cartoon,

    Ascent:

    His ascent to power made many feel he was a spoiled kid, or the “teacher’s pet”. Have you ever seen in any school around the world a “teacher’s pet” who is liked by his peers? They only like him when they need him. GMA and FPM broke all of their principles just to accommodate bassil:

    “Those who fail in elections can’t be minister”…. Except bassil

    “Mps should not be ministers”… except bassil

    “we are a modern party with internal democracy, blablabla, not like any other Lebanese party”… party rules changed and modified to ensure Bassil becomes head of FPM just like any other Lebanese party

    “we are against nepotism”… except when it comes to bassil

    Blocking formation of government for months just for bassil as if FPM didn’t have any other talent

    Should I continue?

    My point is that even if Bassil really merits all what he was given on a silver plate, the general feeling is that he was forced down the throat of many FPMers and Lebanese in general especially when it came from a party and a person who claimed to follow modern, western style democracy and is all about change and reform.

    Achievements

    Yes, probably he achieved few things, but to be fair so did some other ministers from all other parties… none of his achievements were spectacular.

    And please please please, stop blaming others of sabotage; sounds like “a dog ate my homework” approach! If that was true then an honest and ethical person would simply call a press conference put out all the facts (documented facts) and names and who did what and how did they not let him work and then resign. Otherwise he simply shares the guilt and the blame; even worst, people don’t like cowards and hypocrites.

    Flip flopping

    Accuse someone of corruption then name him PM
    Accuse someone of "baltaji" then elect him head of parliament
    Accuse others of corruption then partner with them and shut up about their corruption
    Remind people of the wounds of the war and the crimes of some then make deals with the criminals and war lords
    Calling governments unconstitutional because they didn't present a budget then participate in many governments without presenting a budget
    and the list goes on.... People hate those who flip flop continuously

    In conclusion

    When you lose your credibility, when your let your people feel fooled, they dislike and even hate you
    yeslam temmak,
    I have been saying this for years, and most importantly that if we attack Bassil that does not mean the others are better,
    but the focus on him because we were expecting to live up to his promises and principles...He turned out to be the architect#2 in your example.
    personally I kept my support to GMA despite his alliance with Michel el MURR (we all know who is MURR) and Franjieh...
    thinking that political maneuver are sometimes needed, but when in 2015 everything was set so that Bassil becomes head of FPM without any elections, I realized these people are a fraud and when public interests oppose private ones, they will take the latter without any consideration to values and principles.

    Bottom line, those who think that Bassil is the chosen person (as well as others who think that other corrupt politicians are the chosen ones)
    mabrouk 3layon, let them help/feed them in this crisis.

    A7san shi they tell you, without bassil byejo byefermouk enta w 3alytak, as if Bassil mhadda 3amoud el sama.
    This is the typical thinking of dictators and their surrounding: "without this the supreme leader, you will not survive..."...
    La ya khayeh, true democratic process is here to avoid, one community, one nation, having its fate totally relying on a single man.

    Probably it was not a bad idea that FPM got to power, so many of us stop being blind and see the reality, instead of living the rest of our lives thinking "what if ..."
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Spare me the BS, I am not a fan of Bassil at all and his appointment as leader in FPM is IMHO is one of the main reason my support for FPM dwindled down. But the focus on him is even more reason for me to view the "revolution" very skeptically.
    There are many reason he is vilified more than usual but here are the main ones:
    • He is not beatified by the Patriarch so he is open game unlike his holiness Riad Salemeh, the sunni sa7abas Saniora and Hariri and the Imam Berri or God-sent SHN.
    • FPMers in general are more likely to listen then to start hitting naysayers as opposed to all the rest from Kataeb to LF to Anal to HA to FMers etc.
    • All the opposing media outlets and speakers are very well coordinated and highly skilled in their attacks, repeating his name day in day out on everything negative. Not an hour of news passes by without hearing his name. The least skilled of them, such as Fares Souaid, clumsily exhibits strategy
    • The FPM media outlets are inept
    • The FPM leadership is a PR nightmare, uncoordinated, inefficient, never once have they dictated the media discourse. Always on the defensive
    • The FPM leadership and GB in specific are clumsy, never thinking of the PR ramifications of their moves
    • The leadership of opposing parties much more PR savvy
    • GB is in general not likable, it's just his character. Some people are charismatic, he simply is not.
    Add all of that together and you have your answer. No one else in Lebanese politics checks all these boxes. Even assuming they are all at the same level of corruption, which is a far cry from reality considering all the other a-holes had a headstart of 20+ years of unopposed rule, he is the only one that is so hated.
    i think so far this is the most objective reply, even though it only sheds light on the internal side of the problem.

    part of this situation we have reached is the own doing of FPM for not being as ready as they ought to have been, in particular when the cause for which they were founded requires that everyone rises to the level of the responsibility it requires. one of the main reasons why this objective failed to mature properly is because FPMers do not know how to work together, instead of forming coherent teams, egos take over and they end up bickering together and working against each other, and oftentimes this leads to severe feuds. FPM should have held trainings and workshops for leaders and members to learn cooperative skills, but also big egos stood in the way, in particular because FPM combines people from all sorts of different and even incompatible backgrounds, ideological and otherwise.

    this is just one side of the equation however, and it does indeed indicate a chaotic situation that reflected badly on the party, this however is not a criminal or a dishonest act.

    the same cannot be said about the other side of the equation. billions of dollars have been invested, countless media institutions and many political parties have dedicated themselves for more than a decade and continue to do so with the sole objective of tarnishing the image of FPM. this here is an evil objective carried out by very evil people, and it is an incriminating act in the perspective of honest people. the culmination of these campaigns came through the october 17 uprising, which started chaotically and end up as a mini revolution carried out by mostly ugly and immoral folks strictly against GMA and Bassil. and while the good people distanced themselves from this uprising after it was exposed as depleted and deprived, they are still failing to aim in the right direction.

    this is not only crucial and critical, it is will also have catastrophic results if supposedly good and bright people do not correct their aim, and the repercussions of the failure to do so will hit them first and will also hit everyone else on the long term. it is like putting a cast around the wrong leg when the other is broken, risking that limb to be amputated when as it festers when the broken bones remain untreated.

    no matter what issues we have with bassil, they dwarf in comparison to the real issues we are facing elsewhere, and turning the guns towards the only people fighting for these huge causes because of petty differences is really indicative of our unworthiness, and this is a condemnation in the neck of everyone who does it, regardless of role, age, position, membership, and location. there simply are no excuses, at least not to the discerning few.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Not all those who dislike GB have same motives or reasons; we cannot really then find 1 single rational to fit all.

    You have those who simply like and hate whoever their boss tells them to like or hate without even using a tiny bit of their brain to make a personal decision (and that applies to many in all factions and parties). You also have those who "love" or hate someone just because they are stubborn and get admit they were wrong. These type of people is not worth analyzing.

    I’ll try to give rationalize on several aspects the detestation of Bassil by those who are more free to make personal opinions:

    Psychological test/Analysis:

    Let us start with a metaphor; assume the following scenario:

    You want to build two houses. For house 1 you hire an architect whom you know has a history of failures and is well renowned to be corrupt, unethical, and fraudulent. For house 2 you hire an architect who has been preaching about ethics, protesting construction frauds, and praising his own CV. You give both the required funds and come back a year later to find out that: House 1 was a complete failure and architect 1 committed all possible frauds, embezzled your money, etc… House 2, surprisingly, in similar case to house 1 as if architect 2 learned from architect 1, your funds were misused, incompetent subcontractors were hired, etc. and the house still way behind schedule and promises

    It is true that both projects are similar failures at this stage, but towards which one will you tend to develop a sense of disgust and hatred? All research shows that we as humans will tend to forget project 1 because it is our fault we hired knowingly a crook. In parallel, we will tend to never forget project 2 and develop a sense of animosity towards architect 2 because he fooled us, and now we feel as victims.

    In this metaphor, Bassil is architect 2 and the remaining political class (or most of it) is architect 1. Bassil over promised and didn’t know how to manage expectations. And about 10 years later, he achieved relatively nothing and provided the public with many reasons to believe he is as corrupt as the others.

    Personality:
    Many, if not all, of us agree that Bassil does not have any charisma. On top of that, when I “survey” friends and family about him the same feedback comes back repeatedly: he always sounds condescending.
    I have personally met him twice in semi-private meetings, once in early 2000s and once late 2009. Both times, I felt that the man suffers from Napoleon complex and is arrogant. These are not the qualities of a likeable leader in 21st century.
    I was not surprised when I learnt that he, (probably during a flare of his megalomania), used public funds to print and distribute a self-promoting book/cartoon,

    Ascent:

    His ascent to power made many feel he was a spoiled kid, or the “teacher’s pet”. Have you ever seen in any school around the world a “teacher’s pet” who is liked by his peers? They only like him when they need him. GMA and FPM broke all of their principles just to accommodate bassil:

    “Those who fail in elections can’t be minister”…. Except bassil

    “Mps should not be ministers”… except bassil

    “we are a modern party with internal democracy, blablabla, not like any other Lebanese party”… party rules changed and modified to ensure Bassil becomes head of FPM just like any other Lebanese party

    “we are against nepotism”… except when it comes to bassil

    Blocking formation of government for months just for bassil as if FPM didn’t have any other talent

    Should I continue?

    My point is that even if Bassil really merits all what he was given on a silver plate, the general feeling is that he was forced down the throat of many FPMers and Lebanese in general especially when it came from a party and a person who claimed to follow modern, western style democracy and is all about change and reform.

    Achievements

    Yes, probably he achieved few things, but to be fair so did some other ministers from all other parties… none of his achievements were spectacular.

    And please please please, stop blaming others of sabotage; sounds like “a dog ate my homework” approach! If that was true then an honest and ethical person would simply call a press conference put out all the facts (documented facts) and names and who did what and how did they not let him work and then resign. Otherwise he simply shares the guilt and the blame; even worst, people don’t like cowards and hypocrites.

    Flip flopping
    Accuse someone of corruption then name him PM
    Accuse someone of "baltaji" then elect him head of parliament
    Accuse others of corruption then partner with them and shut up about their corruption
    Remind people of the wounds of the war and the crimes of some then make deals with the criminals and war lords
    Calling governments unconstitutional because they didn't present a budget then participate in many governments without presenting a budget
    and the list goes on.... People hate those who flip flop continuously

    In conclusion

    When you lose your credibility, when your let your people feel fooled, they dislike and even hate you
    all of your points will be answered shortly.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The dam projects for many people these projects are very corrupted and destructive and I believe there are good evidence that they are but you believe them to be all good and what the country actually needs!

    Electricity failing and failing more is good enough to dislike the man..
    So...

    When he presents projects, you oppose them; claiming that they, and he, are corrupted.

    Then you complain that the issues the projects were meant to solve are not solved; claiming that he is incompetant.

    How convenient.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Not all those who dislike GB have same motives or reasons; we cannot really then find 1 single rational to fit all.

    You have those who simply like and hate whoever their boss tells them to like or hate without even using a tiny bit of their brain to make a personal decision (and that applies to many in all factions and parties). You also have those who "love" or hate someone just because they are stubborn and get admit they were wrong. These type of people is not worth analyzing.

    I’ll try to give rationalize on several aspects the detestation of Bassil by those who are more free to make personal opinions:

    Psychological test/Analysis:

    Let us start with a metaphor; assume the following scenario:

    You want to build two houses. For house 1 you hire an architect whom you know has a history of failures and is well renowned to be corrupt, unethical, and fraudulent. For house 2 you hire an architect who has been preaching about ethics, protesting construction frauds, and praising his own CV. You give both the required funds and come back a year later to find out that: House 1 was a complete failure and architect 1 committed all possible frauds, embezzled your money, etc… House 2, surprisingly, in similar case to house 1 as if architect 2 learned from architect 1, your funds were misused, incompetent subcontractors were hired, etc. and the house still way behind schedule and promises

    It is true that both projects are similar failures at this stage, but towards which one will you tend to develop a sense of disgust and hatred? All research shows that we as humans will tend to forget project 1 because it is our fault we hired knowingly a crook. In parallel, we will tend to never forget project 2 and develop a sense of animosity towards architect 2 because he fooled us, and now we feel as victims.

    In this metaphor, Bassil is architect 2 and the remaining political class (or most of it) is architect 1. Bassil over promised and didn’t know how to manage expectations. And about 10 years later, he achieved relatively nothing and provided the public with many reasons to believe he is as corrupt as the others.

    Personality:

    Many, if not all, of us agree that Bassil does not have any charisma. On top of that, when I “survey” friends and family about him the same feedback comes back repeatedly: he always sounds condescending.

    I have personally met him twice in semi-private meetings, once in early 2000s and once late 2009. Both times, I felt that the man suffers from Napoleon complex and is arrogant. These are not the qualities of a likeable leader in 21st century.

    I was not surprised when I learnt that he, (probably during a flare of his megalomania), used public funds to print and distribute a self-promoting book/cartoon,

    Ascent:

    His ascent to power made many feel he was a spoiled kid, or the “teacher’s pet”. Have you ever seen in any school around the world a “teacher’s pet” who is liked by his peers? They only like him when they need him. GMA and FPM broke all of their principles just to accommodate bassil:

    “Those who fail in elections can’t be minister”…. Except bassil

    “Mps should not be ministers”… except bassil

    “we are a modern party with internal democracy, blablabla, not like any other Lebanese party”… party rules changed and modified to ensure Bassil becomes head of FPM just like any other Lebanese party

    “we are against nepotism”… except when it comes to bassil

    Blocking formation of government for months just for bassil as if FPM didn’t have any other talent

    Should I continue?

    My point is that even if Bassil really merits all what he was given on a silver plate, the general feeling is that he was forced down the throat of many FPMers and Lebanese in general especially when it came from a party and a person who claimed to follow modern, western style democracy and is all about change and reform.

    Achievements

    Yes, probably he achieved few things, but to be fair so did some other ministers from all other parties… none of his achievements were spectacular.

    And please please please, stop blaming others of sabotage; sounds like “a dog ate my homework” approach! If that was true then an honest and ethical person would simply call a press conference put out all the facts (documented facts) and names and who did what and how did they not let him work and then resign. Otherwise he simply shares the guilt and the blame; even worst, people don’t like cowards and hypocrites.

    Flip flopping

    Accuse someone of corruption then name him PM
    Accuse someone of "baltaji" then elect him head of parliament
    Accuse others of corruption then partner with them and shut up about their corruption
    Remind people of the wounds of the war and the crimes of some then make deals with the criminals and war lords
    Calling governments unconstitutional because they didn't present a budget then participate in many governments without presenting a budget
    and the list goes on.... People hate those who flip flop continuously

    In conclusion

    When you lose your credibility, when your let your people feel fooled, they dislike and even hate you
    I'm not saying that you are right or that you are wrong about Bassil. Frankly I have no clue what he's really like.

    However, your analogy is not accurate. Architect 1 and architect 2 are not working on different houses. They are working on the same house. And that makes all the difference.
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    Just occurred to me the word “Bassil” is one of the buzz words that activates the electronic army and sends them out in droves for the kill in a hurry.
    @Dark Angel Look what you have done , you’ve exposed them one by one just by publishing your thread.:lol:
    How can you sleep at night;)
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    Let's see if we can recognize some of Lebanon's treasures in this video and how we can bring them back to rescue us. Sorry Bassil you are on in the show :cigar:

     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    So...

    When he presents projects, you oppose them; claiming that they, and he, are corrupted.

    Then you complain that the issues the projects were meant to solve are not solved; claiming that he is incompetant.

    How convenient.

    I honestly don't trust any proposed project by any one of these politicians.. can you really blame me for that?

    These projects are destructive and I strongly believe there are more to it like making shady deals and cashing in!

    You want to argue for these projects like FM/Hariri supporters argue for Solidere!

    The reality is that they are making great money from this projects so please stop!


    I'm not saying that you are right or that you are wrong about Bassil. Frankly I have no clue what he's really like.

    However, your analogy is not accurate. Architect 1 and architect 2 are not working on different houses. They are working on the same house. And that makes all the difference.
    The moral of the story would still be the same whether it is one house or two different houses!
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    Starving Lebanon? It's all Bassil's fault. He won't let them help:banghead:

     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Check out how bad and selfish Bassil is😉 He only cares about himself:cigar:



    You are something else man..
    enou b7yetak shu fhemit min hal reportage gheyr akel kharah?

    They are basically saying bassil met with berri and akhouk riad w magically after the meetings rtafa3it lira ? :hilarious:
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I honestly don't trust any proposed project by any one of these politicians.. can you really blame me for that?

    These projects are destructive and I strongly believe there are more to it like making shady deals and cashing in!

    You want to argue like for these projects life FM/Hariri supporters argue for Solidere!

    The reality is that they are making great money from this projects so please stop!
    Bottom line...he can't win. No matter what he does there will be criticism.

    The moral of the story would still be the same whether it is one house or two different houses!
    Not at all.

    No matter how conscientious an architect is, you won't be able to tell, if he is forced to build a house with a corrupted architect; because, no matter how solid his side of the foundation, if the other side of the foundation is poorly built, the house will crumble.

    In any case, I won't get into a protracted argument. I just wanted to make these two points. Have a nice day.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Bottom line...he can't win. No matter what he does there will be criticism.
    Well lets say many people don't trust him and I'm just one of these people!


    Not at all.

    No matter how conscientious an architect is, you won't be able to tell, if he is forced to build a house with a corrupted architect; because, no matter how solid his side of the foundation, if the other side of the foundation is poorly built, the house will crumble.

    In any case, I won't get into a protracted argument. I just wanted to make these two points. Have a nice day.

    I totally agree here this is what many of us argued in 2005 when FPM started allying themselves with corrupts like Murr.. Franjiyeh etc..

    Have a nice day too :)
     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    For those fuming over Bassil's Media exposure, where are you living ??

    he is the leader of the largest parliamentary block isn't he ? so should we listen to wi2am wahab and be satisfied ?? or look at Saad Hariri who is outside the government.. or listen to SF , the one man band .

    Haram he is always in the media.. Should he lock himself indoors in a mahabsi ?

    And for those who think he means well but he cant operate on his own. When Bassil wanted GMA in Baabda, he basically slept on Maarabs doorstep day and night sending his best men until the arch blood enemy accepted... the unthinkable unbelievable deal ??!!

    If we want change, wouldn't it make sense to put pressure and strengthen relationships with Me3rab again ? Obviously working with Berri to remove Berri ain't gonna work dah... What about the Thawra. The bunch of "lefties" .. It seems Berri and HA are against them too.

    Soon The biggest fight will be between GB and The army General for the presidency. Why ? I don't have a clue... But in third world countries , its the norm.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    Check out how bad and selfish Bassil is😉 He only cares about himself:cigar:

    شهد سعر صرف الدولار في السوق السوداء اليوم الإثنين إرتفاعًا دراماتيكيًّا، حيث سجّل ما بين 7800 و 8000 ليرة لبنانية للدولار الواحد، بعد أن تراوح صباحًا ما بين 6200 و 6400 ليرة.
     
    cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    I'm not saying that you are right or that you are wrong about Bassil. Frankly I have no clue what he's really like.

    However, your analogy is not accurate. Architect 1 and architect 2 are not working on different houses. They are working on the same house. And that makes all the difference.
    i used a "classic" experiment to explain why people psychologically tend to develop animosity vs someone they fell victim of. We as humans have no problem forgiving our own mistakes but have a hard time forgetting the mistakes of others.

    if you insist on using the analogy where both architects are working on the same house then you have the following, fine by me: you come back after a year and you find the whole project a mess, you are not surprised that architect 1 failed you and stole your money but you are shocked to learn that architect 2 is simply giving you childish excuses and is not giving you facts and names of the culprits... in essence, architect 2 kept company with the wolf for a year and eventually learned to howl
     
    cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    No matter how conscientious an architect is, you won't be able to tell, if he is forced to build a house with a corrupted architect; because, no matter how solid his side of the foundation, if the other side of the foundation is poorly built, the house will crumble.
    No one was FORCED to participate it's a choice they made and even insisted on. Therefore you expect them to act accordingly and to tell you who and how is poorly building the other side of the foundation, and if they can't change the ethical thing they do is to quit the project (that's like the first few rules in the code of conduct of any professional order in respected societies)
    in our case it's even worse, both sides of the foundation turned out rotten
     
    Last edited:
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Spare me the BS, I am not a fan of Bassil at all and his appointment as leader in FPM is IMHO is one of the main reason my support for FPM dwindled down. But the focus on him is even more reason for me to view the "revolution" very skeptically.
    There are many reason he is vilified more than usual but here are the main ones:
    • He is not beatified by the Patriarch so he is open game unlike his holiness Riad Salemeh, the sunni sa7abas Saniora and Hariri and the Imam Berri or God-sent SHN.
    • FPMers in general are more likely to listen then to start hitting naysayers as opposed to all the rest from Kataeb to LF to Anal to HA to FMers etc.
    • All the opposing media outlets and speakers are very well coordinated and highly skilled in their attacks, repeating his name day in day out on everything negative. Not an hour of news passes by without hearing his name. The least skilled of them, such as Fares Souaid, clumsily exhibits strategy
    • The FPM media outlets are inept
    • The FPM leadership is a PR nightmare, uncoordinated, inefficient, never once have they dictated the media discourse. Always on the defensive
    • The FPM leadership and GB in specific are clumsy, never thinking of the PR ramifications of their moves
    • The leadership of opposing parties much more PR savvy
    • GB is in general not likable, it's just his character. Some people are charismatic, he simply is not.
    Add all of that together and you have your answer. No one else in Lebanese politics checks all these boxes. Even assuming they are all at the same level of corruption, which is a far cry from reality considering all the other a-holes had a headstart of 20+ years of unopposed rule, he is the only one that is so hated.
    I think it's deeper than a media and PR problem, though I do tend to think that's a pretty healthy dose of the issue. But there are factors external to FPM (and Bassil) as well as those internal to it that drive the particular (and I think unique, and observers agree with me, despite the videos that people like to post here and be like "look they protested everyone!") vitriol directed at him and FPM. And there's the ever-present problem of reality falling far short of expectation. But I honestly don't think it's a worthwhile debate because it's mostly emotional/instinctual and not fact-driven, so I'm just here to say that I appreciate that @Iron Maiden has made fetch happen:
    the rest from Kataeb to LF to Anal to HA to FMers e
     
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