can the hatred directed towards Gebran Bassil be rationalized?

Dark Angel

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
3azizi Iron, I'll tell you why the reasons you give, to explain Bassil's failure in many peoples eyes, are not screwing right through the heads of the listeners, bel roughm enno they make sense.

Rule number one: get used to normal people becoming instantly weird at times. Reason and logic are to no avail, try something else if you insist on wanting to reach them.
Rule number two: in our human client-server relationships, it's often about how you, the server, are emotionally perceived. And the client is always right, even when infected, infested, hijacked and dumb.

Take for example the case of the gipsy beggar I meet every day. She's kind of ageless and looks sad, I call her Sad Liza. I am sure you met her cousins in your own neighborhood.
She sits on the same spot of the street where I live. Ever since she watched me the first time, eagerly digging in my pocket for a dollar to give her, she started to smile at me. A faint smile at first, but which grew bigger for each one-dollar meeting, to the point where I one day could catch a golden glimpse of her wisdom teeth.

While most passers-by seem to not even notice her existence, it didn't take long before I began to feel an obligation to give her that dollar, and at the same time guilt for not having one on me at the time of our almost daily rendez-vous.
One day, after the obligation-guilt crisis in my head - and no dollars in my pocket - had reached its peak, I decided to stop feeding the woman dollars. No more. Not One.
Guess what happened?

Long story short: while I'm certain the poor woman never bothered expressing her complaint about the hundreds others who she meets daily but who don't even bother noticing her, she started to focus on me, giving me that demanding stare, rather more angry than sad. I, who gave her but now stopped giving her, deserve now her silent, yet much outspoken, complaint. Kamen shwei and I suspect she might lose it totally one day, w yekhtor 3a bela tnott w teshlakhne shi kaff ma3 shi la3neh ghajariyeh, ditching all social rules including the respect for the size of my biceps.

Interesting, no? Obviously to the beggar, my "client", I was that little hope and expectation, serving her one small daily contribution. I failed her expectation and she decided to give a sh!t about the complicated metaphysics that could lie behind me not carrying ca$h (forgot my wallet at home.. didn't get my monthly salary.. the cash machine is broken.. bought myself an ice cream for the last dollar I had..). Clearly even less about the quantum effects of others who never care about her. Khirmit 3layyeh, only me, the one who had raised her hopes but failed to keep delivering.

This is not to liken them to beggars, but some people, our citizen clients, have developed a similar syndrome towards Bassil and FPM. To these people, he who promised nothing nor showed the least interest, he's an evident failure who they never counted on to begin with. Their frustration and anger go to those who raised hope, and failed their promise. Rule nr 1.
These people feel emotionally betrayed. And you don't "reason" away someone's "feelings". Rule nr 2.
this is rather interesting and carries some truth to it. people should know better than to make promises in Lebanon, people should never be too optimistic for their own sake, the better approach simply proclaim we will promise nothing, everything is an uphill, we will try our best and every little thing we can achieve is an achievement in this treacherous and unfriendly environment.
 
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  • dyyyy

    dyyyy

    Well-Known Member
    I totally agree. Whoever is in charge needs to speak out, loud with open mouth, about all the aspects of the issue. Someone's got to shake it out and put all cards on the tables. Start an open media war against all the involved and watch how eager they'd ultimately rush to help solve it when the discussions get public. The legion of honestly working people who milk pure 🐄 , if any exists, needs to stop *****ing around in the bushes.
    Honesty when I wrote this I wasn't thinking about politics, it's just what I would expect from someone I work with or any project manager, really the basics of someone having responsibilities.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Then what prevented the Minister of energy clearly state these difficulties with a well defined timeline, instead of simply promising in "a week", "2 days" ... for the last 2 month.

    Instead of statements about the fuel "evaporating" and we have a "problem".
    for the minister, his job is over when the council of ministers approves the power plan, what remains is simply following through on some execution details. however FPM ministers had to literally fight every step of the way, it was an on going battle. to give you an example with the deir 3mar project:

    2010 the council of ministers approves the plan.
    october 2012 a spanish company wins the tender with 660 million USD
    december 2012 the council of minister declares they don't have this amount of funds, they can only pay 500 million USD.
    march 14 2013 after a new round of bidding, the project goes to a greek company, in the meanwhile the spanish company sews the Lebanese state for damages after unlawfully rejecting its contract.
    2014 the funds are not released for the beginning in the project.
    2015 the ministry of finance hints that the greek company should pay an additional 50 million USD in TVA over the contract, and the case goes to diwan el mou7assabe.
    2016 tensions increase with alli hassan khalil who is now withholding funds for almost everything pertaining to electricity and who regularly delays payments for the fuel shipments regularly causing weeks of blackouts each time.
    2018 (i think it was in late 2018 but i am not 100%) diwan el mou7assabe issues two contradicting decisions on the subject. still no plant. the greek company also suffers losses and faces financial hardships, and is no longer able to provide the funds to build the plant.
    2019 an add/hock solution was orchestrated by the government, planning to give the bassatni and rahmi the chance to build the plant, despite the fact their sources of funding is very shady.
    2020 back to square one, but now we have no bidders and no money left, we are waiting for the IMF to find a solution.

    had we gone with the spanish comany in 2012, we would have probably saved more than 20 billion dollars on our economy. but no, it is more important for some to save the 160 million dollars, and to stop the project for the 50 million TVA.

    none of this is a secret. ali hassan khalil even said it himself.


    and this is just one single project.
     
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    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    this is rather interesting and carries some truth to it. people should know better than to make promises in Lebanon, people should never be too optimistic for their own sake, the better approach simply proclaim we will promise nothing, everything is an uphill, we will try our best and every little thing we can achieve is an achievement in this treacherous and unfriendly environment.
    They could always use the following disclaimer and a warning:
    Within the current system not much will be achieved in 50 years.
    All we need is more time.
     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    not a single thing you have said deserves a reply.

    just so others won't be mislead:

    Restoring power after a wide-area outage can be difficult, as power stations need to be brought back on-line. Normally, this is done with the help of power from the rest of the grid. In the total absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation. The means of doing so will depend greatly on local circumstances and operational policies, but typically transmission utilities will establish localized 'power islands' which are then progressively coupled together. To maintain supply frequencies within tolerable limits during this process, demand must be reconnected at the same pace that generation is restored, requiring close coordination between power stations, transmission and distribution organizations. (source)​
    Copy pasting is great but what it tells you is that the whole network is automatically controlled, protected and synchronised so the switching is done in milliseconds. I don't need to copy paste.
    I liked your comment about a little house , lool.

    The basic problem is that we need to sack a lot of people and restructure the sector in Lebanon to be efficient and abide to a medium and long term plan. Instead, we hired a lot of people to balance the christian muslim balance. Hariri Senior had the right idea, but he was corrupt and tried to buy everything for himself. That's where the mistake started. Sacking people is unpopular and will make you loose elections. Privatisation becomes inevitable. This would need to exclude all lebanese companies that start fresh or have only pan arab experience from the tender process. That's how corruption gets back in. It needs to to controlled by reputable firms for at least 10-20 years, afterwhich , it will be safe to let other companies bid .
     
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    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    They could always use the following disclaimer and a warning:
    Within the current system not much will be achieved in 50 years.
    All we need is more time.
    But you would loose elections that way. So you can't deliver. Being transparent and fighting with conviction might work . Being in opposition could work if one could rely on the auditing and justice system to do their job. This is not happening. Government employ friends and pass perks to followers to vote for them. That's where most Zou3ama get their support. Smashing this ring needs almost a dictator to do the work. How do we stop it ? It needs national dialog and enforce elections where the parties represent religious groups reflecting the country and not a sect. Very deflating .. and honestly , I thought FPM could do it. The energy they had prior to 2005 has dissipated.
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    for the minister, his job is over when the council of ministers approves the power plan, what remains is simply following through on some execution details. however FPM ministers had to literally fight every step of the way, it was an on going battle. to give you an example with the deir 3mar project:

    2010 the council of ministers approves the plan.
    october 2012 a spanish company wins the tender with 660 million USD
    december 2012 the council of minister declares they don't have this amount of funds, they can only pay 500 million USD.
    march 14 2013 after a new round of bidding, the project goes to a greek company, in the meanwhile the spanish company sews the Lebanese state for damages after unlawfully rejecting its contract.
    2014 the funds are not released for the beginning in the project.
    2015 the ministry of finance hints that the greek company should pay an additional 50 million USD in TVA over the contract, and the case goes to diwan el mou7assabe.
    2016 tensions increase with alli hassan khalil who is now withholding funds for almost everything pertaining to electricity and who regularly delays payments for the fuel shipments regularly causing weeks of blackouts each time.
    2018 (i think it was in late 2018 but i am not 100%) diwan el mou7assabe issues two contradicting decisions on the subject. still no plant. the greek company also suffers losses and faces financial hardships, and is no longer able to provide the funds to build the plant.
    2019 an add/hock solution was orchestrated by the government, planning to give the bassatni and rahmi the chance to build the plant, despite the fact their sources of funding is very shady.
    2020 back to square one, but now we have no bidders and no money left, we are waiting for the IMF to find a solution.

    had we gone with the spanish comany in 2012, we would have probably saved more than 20 billion dollars on our economy. but no, it is more important for some to save the 160 million dollars, and to stop the project for the 50 million TVA.

    none of this is a secret. ali hassan khalil even said it himself.


    and this is just one single project.
    Dear @Dark Angel
    This is Bassil’s super Yacht of the cost of Jbeil where he was lounging when he saw an old fisherman nearby drowning and screaming for help. So Bassil got up, stepped down, walked on the water and saved the man’s life. Incidentally, the morons you are wasting your time with trying to explain to them what they don’t want to hear or understand happened to be there watching. Then they looked at each other and started whispering: Look Gebran Bassil can’s swim.
    So kabbir 3a2lak and save your breath…😉

    1596181211826.png
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    فارقت الشابة ميرنا غمراوي الحياة، بسبب عدم توافر الكهرباء وهي كانت بأمسّ الحاجة للتهوئة أو التكييف لأنّها حامل بتوأم بالشهر الثامن، وفق ما أفادت "مواقع التواصل الإجتماعي".

    Gibran Bassil is now officially a criminal.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    for the minister, his job is over when the council of ministers approves the power plan, what remains is simply following through on some execution details. however FPM ministers had to literally fight every step of the way, it was an on going battle. to give you an example with the deir 3mar project:

    2010 the council of ministers approves the plan.
    october 2012 a spanish company wins the tender with 660 million USD
    december 2012 the council of minister declares they don't have this amount of funds, they can only pay 500 million USD.
    march 14 2013 after a new round of bidding, the project goes to a greek company, in the meanwhile the spanish company sews the Lebanese state for damages after unlawfully rejecting its contract.
    2014 the funds are not released for the beginning in the project.
    2015 the ministry of finance hints that the greek company should pay an additional 50 million USD in TVA over the contract, and the case goes to diwan el mou7assabe.
    2016 tensions increase with alli hassan khalil who is now withholding funds for almost everything pertaining to electricity and who regularly delays payments for the fuel shipments regularly causing weeks of blackouts each time.
    2018 (i think it was in late 2018 but i am not 100%) diwan el mou7assabe issues two contradicting decisions on the subject. still no plant. the greek company also suffers losses and faces financial hardships, and is no longer able to provide the funds to build the plant.
    2019 an add/hock solution was orchestrated by the government, planning to give the bassatni and rahmi the chance to build the plant, despite the fact their sources of funding is very shady.
    2020 back to square one, but now we have no bidders and no money left, we are waiting for the IMF to find a solution.

    had we gone with the spanish comany in 2012, we would have probably saved more than 20 billion dollars on our economy. but no, it is more important for some to save the 160 million dollars, and to stop the project for the 50 million TVA.

    none of this is a secret. ali hassan khalil even said it himself.


    and this is just one single project.
    Why did it take two years for the spanish company to win the tender and how many kw will the plant generate?
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    فارقت الشابة ميرنا غمراوي الحياة، بسبب عدم توافر الكهرباء وهي كانت بأمسّ الحاجة للتهوئة أو التكييف لأنّها حامل بتوأم بالشهر الثامن، وفق ما أفادت "مواقع التواصل الإجتماعي".

    Gibran Bassil is now officially a criminal.
    yala rfa3 3le da3wa w masi7 fi el ard 🔥🔥
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Why did it take two years for the spanish company to win the tender and how many kw will the plant generate?
    there are steps needed to be taken to prepare a site prior to building the power plants, in particular upgrading the grid network, distribution and transformation stations, etc.. it was a five years plan that was supposed to be completed in 2015.

    however every single step of that plan was an uphill battle, the easiest part was the mansourieh high voltage power lines, it took 8 years for that section to be complete, the political parties in the area turned it into a complete war.

    nothing can be achieved under this mentality. look at bisri dam today. all that hype will disappear and the technical subject will no longer be heard in the media when jumblat hariri and ja3ja3 approve, they will then probably move the fight to the contract section.
     
    cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    [...]

    however every single step of that plan was an uphill battle, the easiest part was the mansourieh high voltage power lines, it took 8 years for that section to be complete, the political parties in the area turned it into a complete war.

    [...]
    Just to better understand, are you talking about the same power lines in mansourieh which FPM were opposed to between 2005 and 2009, organized demonstrations against, and FPM Maten Mps went on all media outlets with studies that these lines will cause cancer blablabla...
    But then when the spoiled son in law became minister of energy FPM and its same MPs flipped 180deg and started defending these lines (while opposing parties picked the same arguments FPM used and now switch to opposing the lines)
    ?
     
    cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    had we gone with the spanish comany in 2012, we would have probably saved more than 20 billion dollars on our economy. but no, it is more important for some to save the 160 million dollars, and to stop the project for the 50 million TVA.
    i'm off the thread topic in the following reply i know but need to clarify:

    Actually, we probably would not have saved nothing!

    The financial problems of EDL are because of the following factors:

    Subsidized rates: EDL sell the KW cheaper than it cost to produce and the State pays the difference

    Operation cost: HR, cost of fuel, maintenance, repairs…

    Technical waste: inefficient grid, transmission losses, etc

    Revenue loss: unpaid bills (an IMF reports mentions that only 50% of Lebanese pay their bills), illegal connections to the grid, etc…

    Even if we had that new power plant (or more than one) built and delivered on time say 5 to 10 years ago, the new plants would only increase production and in parallel operation cost. Yes maybe revenues would have went up because now EDL is selling more KW but its deficit will remain because still 50% of people aren’t paying and it has to buy more fuel, pay more employees, subsidized rates, etc….

    Even if EDL can produce enough power to cover all required needs it would still be running a deficit if the above factors aren’t resolved. The only benefit would be cleaner air as the polluting local generators would be gone.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Just to better understand, are you talking about the same power lines in mansourieh which FPM were opposed to between 2005 and 2009, organized demonstrations against, and FPM Maten Mps went on all media outlets with studies that these lines will cause cancer blablabla...
    But then when the spoiled son in law became minister of energy FPM and its same MPs flipped 180deg and started defending these lines (while opposing parties picked the same arguments FPM used and now switch to opposing the lines)
    ?
    damned if you do, damned if you don't. FPM ministers increased the radius of the properties that the state bought from the residents, in fact the offer was extended to those who felt threatened and lived within a reasonable distance from the power lines.

    لا اتفاق: وبعد الاجتماع قال حنكش "لم نتوصل الى اتفاق على حل"، مشيرا الى أننا "وضعنا هواجسنا لدى البطريرك وهو سيجري اتصالات لتخفيف الاحتقان على الارض ونأمل أن تتألف لجنة حيادية". وقالت مصادر المجتمعين في بكركي إن "الحل الوحيد الذي عرضته البستاني هو شراء الشقق من الاهالي"، مؤكدة أن "الخطة مستمرة لانها حصلت على موافقة الحكومة ورفضت اقتراح الجميل وحنكش بإنشاء لجنة محايدة من الخبراء".
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    i'm off the thread topic in the following reply i know but need to clarify:

    Actually, we probably would not have saved nothing!

    The financial problems of EDL are because of the following factors:

    Subsidized rates: EDL sell the KW cheaper than it cost to produce and the State pays the difference

    Operation cost: HR, cost of fuel, maintenance, repairs…

    Technical waste: inefficient grid, transmission losses, etc

    Revenue loss: unpaid bills (an IMF reports mentions that only 50% of Lebanese pay their bills), illegal connections to the grid, etc…

    Even if we had that new power plant (or more than one) built and delivered on time say 5 to 10 years ago, the new plants would only increase production and in parallel operation cost. Yes maybe revenues would have went up because now EDL is selling more KW but its deficit will remain because still 50% of people aren’t paying and it has to buy more fuel, pay more employees, subsidized rates, etc….

    Even if EDL can produce enough power to cover all required needs it would still be running a deficit if the above factors aren’t resolved. The only benefit would be cleaner air as the polluting local generators would be gone.
    and how is your post off topic? the whole topic of the thread is about how irrational many people are and how off they are from reality.

    the plan specifically indicates that the subsidized rates will stop when the new power plants are hooked to the network.
    would that part have constituted another uphill battle? chances are yes.
    in that case would you still have been attacking bassil today for increasing your electricity bill? also, chances are yes.
     
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