can the hatred directed towards Gebran Bassil be rationalized?

cedarheart

cedarheart

Well-Known Member
damned if you do, damned if you don't. FPM ministers increased the radius of the properties that the state bought from the residents, in fact the offer was extended to those who felt threatened and lived within a reasonable distance from the power lines.

لا اتفاق: وبعد الاجتماع قال حنكش "لم نتوصل الى اتفاق على حل"، مشيرا الى أننا "وضعنا هواجسنا لدى البطريرك وهو سيجري اتصالات لتخفيف الاحتقان على الارض ونأمل أن تتألف لجنة حيادية". وقالت مصادر المجتمعين في بكركي إن "الحل الوحيد الذي عرضته البستاني هو شراء الشقق من الاهالي"، مؤكدة أن "الخطة مستمرة لانها حصلت على موافقة الحكومة ورفضت اقتراح الجميل وحنكش بإنشاء لجنة محايدة من الخبراء".
this solution was proposed in 2019 not as soon as FPM took over the energy portfolio; meaning that FPM was going ahead with the lines it opposed in the past and had to propose a solution because of opposition.

the point here is not whether these lines are good or bad or if the solution is good or bad, it's the major flip flop of the bassil gang. Once they took over the energy portfolio all of a sudden they flipped 180deg just like they flipped on all other principles and democratic values just to accommodate your beloved napoleon
 
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  • cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    and how is your post off topic? the whole topic of the thread is about how irrational many people are and how off they are from reality.

    the plan specifically indicates that the subsidized rates will stop when the new power plants are hooked to the network.
    would that part have constituted another uphill battle? chances are yes.
    in that case would you still have been attacking bassil today for increasing your electricity bill? also, chances are yes.
    Not at all! i want a minister who could turn EDL into a profitable institution or at least break-even.
    Yes the rate change is a battle, Boustani hinted about it few years ago and she was about to get eaten alive.

    I don't blame bassil alone for the energy fiasco, i blame the whole political mafia governing the country (all of them). E.g. Hariri blocked Frem in the 90s from solving the electrical shortage.... they are all equally responsible

    this thread is why some hate bassil (i've given you many reasons few weeks ago) and his defense is becoming really pathetic; reminds me of how haririst start defending hariri when we tell them that hariri was corrupt, they start talking of all of his "achievements" which in fact ruined the country and led us to disaster.

    Bottom line is that what started as a promising new political movement in Lebanon decided to keep company with the wolves and as expected ended up learning how to howl...
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    this solution was proposed in 2019 not as soon as FPM took over the energy portfolio; meaning that FPM was going ahead with the lines it opposed in the past and had to propose a solution because of opposition.

    the point here is not whether these lines are good or bad or if the solution is good or bad, it's the major flip flop of the bassil gang. Once they took over the energy portfolio all of a sudden they flipped 180deg just like they flipped on all other principles and democratic values just to accommodate your beloved napoleon
    Why are you mad at Bassil? He learned from the best, his father in law. It's not like the latter had any qualms about flip flopping on principles.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Not at all! i want a minister who could turn EDL into a profitable institution or at least break-even.
    Yes the rate change is a battle, Boustani hinted about it few years ago and she was about to get eaten alive.

    I don't blame bassil alone for the energy fiasco, i blame the whole political mafia governing the country (all of them). E.g. Hariri blocked Frem in the 90s from solving the electrical shortage.... they are all equally responsible

    this thread is why some hate bassil (i've given you many reasons few weeks ago) and his defense is becoming really pathetic; reminds me of how haririst start defending hariri when we tell them that hariri was corrupt, they start talking of all of his "achievements" which in fact ruined the country and led us to disaster.

    Bottom line is that what started as a promising new political movement in Lebanon decided to keep company with the wolves and as expected ended up learning how to howl...
    no. this thread is not about why some people hate bassil. this thread is whether the hatred towards bassil and the ferocity with which it is expressed can be rationalized. see the difference? you are free to criticize bassil all you want, and you are free to support a party other than FPM or a individual other than bassil for the Lebanese elections; but when this crosses the limit straight to hatred, then questions need to be asked, and answers need to be given.

    so far not a decent person of all this bunch pointed out, i do not hate bassil, i just disagree with him and would rather support someone else.

    the hatred towards him has crossed all acceptable limits. you can think of it as pathetic, but i never turn my back on someone who is unjustly treated, particularly on such a scale, and particularly when it is at the hands of nothing other than low lives; and still in case you haven't noticed, and i doubt you would, this is not exactly about defending bassil, it is rather about figuring out how our people have became so depleted, no longer able to distinguish right from wrong, good from bad.

    and no they are not equally responsible. you hold frem with the same perspective with which you hold hariri? i am sure you don't. the difference is that frem stopped trying and was forced to resign, our people kept fighting around the clock, and they still are, and instead of you stabbing at the thugs throwing everything in our direction, you never miss the opportunity to stab at us. wlak at least have the decency to deliver that blow in a different direction.

    the defense of bassil is becoming pathetic for what exactly? because he flipped on the mansouriyeh section as you put it? because he was not able to overcome the hurdles of absurdities thrown in his face during his handling of the ministry of energy? big deal, do not support him. vote for whichever alternative if you ever vote, or dont vote at all, even better, that will magically solve everything.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Not all those who dislike GB have same motives or reasons; we cannot really then find 1 single rational to fit all.

    You have those who simply like and hate whoever their boss tells them to like or hate without even using a tiny bit of their brain to make a personal decision (and that applies to many in all factions and parties). You also have those who "love" or hate someone just because they are stubborn and get admit they were wrong. These type of people is not worth analyzing.
    no, untrue, everything is worth weighing because the path in which we are heading has surpassed the norms, and at any moment things could cross from being a matter of opinion into becoming physical, with people wrongly thinking they are validated in their actions. hatred is not a simple thing, and spreading it makes one share in that responsibility of potential consequences.

    I’ll try to give rationalize on several aspects the detestation of Bassil by those who are more free to make personal opinions:

    Psychological test/Analysis:

    Let us start with a metaphor; assume the following scenario:

    You want to build two houses. For house 1 you hire an architect whom you know has a history of failures and is well renowned to be corrupt, unethical, and fraudulent. For house 2 you hire an architect who has been preaching about ethics, protesting construction frauds, and praising his own CV. You give both the required funds and come back a year later to find out that: House 1 was a complete failure and architect 1 committed all possible frauds, embezzled your money, etc… House 2, surprisingly, in similar case to house 1 as if architect 2 learned from architect 1, your funds were misused, incompetent subcontractors were hired, etc. and the house still way behind schedule and promises

    It is true that both projects are similar failures at this stage, but towards which one will you tend to develop a sense of disgust and hatred? All research shows that we as humans will tend to forget project 1 because it is our fault we hired knowingly a crook. In parallel, we will tend to never forget project 2 and develop a sense of animosity towards architect 2 because he fooled us, and now we feel as victims.

    In this metaphor, Bassil is architect 2 and the remaining political class (or most of it) is architect 1. Bassil over promised and didn’t know how to manage expectations. And about 10 years later, he achieved relatively nothing and provided the public with many reasons to believe he is as corrupt as the others.
    ok, this is not even worthy of a reply.

    Personality:
    Many, if not all, of us agree that Bassil does not have any charisma. On top of that, when I “survey” friends and family about him the same feedback comes back repeatedly: he always sounds condescending.

    I have personally met him twice in semi-private meetings, once in early 2000s and once late 2009. Both times, I felt that the man suffers from Napoleon complex and is arrogant. These are not the qualities of a likeable leader in 21st century.

    I was not surprised when I learnt that he, (probably during a flare of his megalomania), used public funds to print and distribute a self-promoting book/cartoon
    and yet people who know him in person have a very different perception of him, he is friendly, receptive, even innocent. i have seen most of his interviews and appearances on TV, he is far from being condescending. he never really bad mouths people, he doesn't have fixations on anyone, he works hard to get his ideas across to the interviewers, etc..

    Ascent:
    His ascent to power made many feel he was a spoiled kid, or the “teacher’s pet”. Have you ever seen in any school around the world a “teacher’s pet” who is liked by his peers? They only like him when they need him. GMA and FPM broke all of their principles just to accommodate bassil:
    bassil is one of the hard working ministers and he never really stops working and producing in the ministries under his care. wlak even as a foreign minister he stirred up our economy and gave a huge push to local manufacturers and startups in particular in the food industry, gave the disapora the ability to reclaim their Lebanese citizenship, and gave our expats the right to vote, established the LDE, etc...

    your spoiled kid analogy is precisely why this thread was introduced. how can you describe someone who works around the clock as a spoiled kid? doesn't one need to have a schism with reality to make such a statement? so if we have to dig a little bit, where is this coming from, and how can you maintain one claim while acknowledging the other?

    “Those who fail in elections can’t be minister”…. Except bassil
    “Mps should not be ministers”… except bassil
    you understand the contradiction between your two claims don't you? but good effort nevertheless in trying to rationalize this point. yes, there should be a separation between the government and the parliament, that however is the least of our problems, and if the need presents itself for someone to be a minister it is not the end of the world in a system like ours. nothing substantial here.

    “we are a modern party with internal democracy, blablabla, not like any other Lebanese party”… party rules changed and modified to ensure Bassil becomes head of FPM just like any other Lebanese party

    “we are against nepotism”… except when it comes to bassil
    we are party where loyalties flip overnight and a base that at least in portion does not realize that, but GMA saw through that. the proof is in the pudding, wouldn't you agree? ;)

    i personally find that bassil has more potential than GMA and should be able to make a rather positive impact in normal circumstances.

    Blocking formation of government for months just for bassil as if FPM didn’t have any other talent
    the government was blocked because the biggest Christian block has every right to name whoever it wants to the government and no one has the right to veto that nomination, we are not ahl zimmi in our own country, and we do not need to blessings of sanyoura and his likes to name our ministers to the government, if that means there is no government so be it, the message was serious and the message was clear. the point was never about bassil.

    hariri is back to putting the same sort of conditions now, and bassil told him very directly, if you keep trying to impose conditions of this sort on us we will impose even bigger conditions of the same sort on you.

    but i guess you would be happier with the ministry of tourism now? 😏

    Should I continue?
    by all means.

    My point is that even if Bassil really merits all what he was given on a silver plate, the general feeling is that he was forced down the throat of many FPMers and Lebanese in general especially when it came from a party and a person who claimed to follow modern, western style democracy and is all about change and reform.
    no one ever claimed to follow "modern western style" democracy.

    FPM held an election and no one ran against bassil because most FPMers are wusses, and some of them turned out to be liars as well, not just wusses. those running against bassil withdrew one after the other. even alain aoun who i respect withdrew after realizing he doesn't have the numbers. no one wanted to lose in that election, not even to maintain the appearances of democracy, and when election day came bassil was running on his own. the people who are disenchanted with bassil and FPM could easily vote for someone else, had they really understood what it "western style democracy" means, wouldn't you say?

    but i am quite sure you would have been happier had bassil chosen to pull an act and had a dummy run against him to claim "western style deomcractic" party model.

    Achievements
    Yes, probably he achieved few things, but to be fair so did some other ministers from all other parties… none of his achievements were spectacular.
    really? the spoiled kid achieved something? what did he achieve? what did others achieve? i would like to see that side by side.
    what did the people criticizing bassil achieve? what did the LF ministers achieve in the government? what did hariri ministers achieve? what did HA and Amal ministers achieve? i am curious to know.

    And please please please, stop blaming others of sabotage; sounds like “a dog ate my homework” approach! If that was true then an honest and ethical person would simply call a press conference put out all the facts (documented facts) and names and who did what and how did they not let him work and then resign. Otherwise he simply shares the guilt and the blame; even worst, people don’t like cowards and hypocrites.
    leish do you see me nagging? i am telling you it is an uphill battle and we are fighting it. teskhif el mawdou3 and portraying it as nagging and putting it at the level of "the dog ate my homework" is an evidence that you do not have what it takes to rise up to the responsibility of building your own damn country. hundreds of press conferences have been called and everything is out in the open.

    Flip flopping
    Accuse someone of corruption then name him PM
    Accuse someone of "baltaji" then elect him head of parliament
    Accuse others of corruption then partner with them and shut up about their corruption
    Remind people of the wounds of the war and the crimes of some then make deals with the criminals and war lords
    Calling governments unconstitutional because they didn't present a budget then participate in many governments without presenting a budget
    and the list goes on.... People hate those who flip flop continuously
    we are willing to work with anyone in Lebanon for the benefit of our own people, this doesn't turn warlords into saints, and it doesn't whitewash corrupt people, it simply stems from the Lebanese reality and power structure, when a warlord is at the head of a parliament block, then you are forced to deal with them regardless.

    In conclusion
    When you lose your credibility, when your let your people feel fooled, they dislike and even hate you
    the conclusion is that things are not black and white in Lebanon, and more often than not you are forced to make compromises to make things work, at least on the surface. however nothing, and i mean nothing, validates the hatred that some people have towards bassil.
     
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    Resistancefrom89

    Resistancefrom89

    Well-Known Member
    no. this thread is not about why some people hate bassil. this thread is whether the hatred towards bassil and the ferocity with which it is expressed can be rationalized. see the difference? you are free to criticize bassil all you want, and you are free to support a party other than FPM or a individual other than bassil for the Lebanese elections; but when this crosses the limit straight to hatred, then questions need to be asked, and answers need to be given.

    so far not a decent person of all this bunch pointed out, i do not hate bassil, i just disagree with him and would rather support someone else.

    the hatred towards him has crossed all acceptable limits. you can think of it as pathetic, but i never turn my back on someone who is unjustly treated, particularly on such a scale, and particularly when it is at the hands of nothing other than low lives; and still in case you haven't noticed, and i doubt you would, this is not exactly about defending bassil, it is rather about figuring out how our people have became so depleted, no longer able to distinguish right from wrong, good from bad.

    and no they are not equally responsible. you hold frem with the same perspective with which you hold hariri? i am sure you don't. the difference is that frem stopped trying and was forced to resign, our people kept fighting around the clock, and they still are, and instead of you stabbing at the thugs throwing everything in our direction, you never miss the opportunity to stab at us. wlak at least have the decency to deliver that blow in a different direction.

    the defense of bassil is becoming pathetic for what exactly? because he flipped on the mansouriyeh section as you put it? because he was not able to overcome the hurdles of absurdities thrown in his face during his handling of the ministry of energy? big deal, do not support him. vote for whichever alternative if you ever vote, or dont vote at all, even better, that will magically solve everything.
    When people put so much TRUST, sacrifices and sacrifices and sacrifices and hope into a movement and a supposed leader, and when this supposed leader turn to be a major reason for the blowing of the TRUST and hopes, then this generates deception, anger and hate
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    When people put so much TRUST, sacrifices and sacrifices and sacrifices and hope into a movement and a supposed leader, and when this supposed leader turn to be a major reason for the blowing of the TRUST and hopes, then this generates deception, anger and hate
    Cry Me a River😭
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    When people put so much TRUST, sacrifices and sacrifices and sacrifices and hope into a movement and a supposed leader, and when this supposed leader turn to be a major reason for the blowing of the TRUST and hopes, then this generates deception, anger and hate
    that is their mistake for putting a person above their cause. if you review my contribution since day one, i was always against this sort of blind allegiance, promoting support when and where support is due, and criticizing the performance when it should have been criticized.

    the irony is that this is disenchantment is hitting mostly those very people, who have actually been a obstacle against internal reforms and refused all kind of objective criticism and then turn bitter whether overnight for this or that reason or whether a course of some time.

    these are mostly the people who have "lebanon" in their names, or "fpm", "aoun" etc...
     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    that is their mistake for putting a person above their cause. if you review my contribution since day one, i was always against this sort of blind allegiance, promoting support when and where support is due, and criticizing the performance when it should have been criticized.

    the irony is that this is disenchantment is hitting mostly those very people, who have actually been a obstacle against internal reforms and refused all kind of objective criticism and then turn bitter whether overnight for this or that reason or whether a course of some time.

    these are mostly the people who have "lebanon" in their names, or "fpm", "aoun" etc...
    You are dealing with a mentality that expects everything be given to them and when they trip and fall they sit on the ground and keep crying until someone feels sorry for them and picks them up. It’s always someone else’s fault they are losers. If you’re honest and successful they automatically accuse you of being corrupt so they can justify their own failures.

    All we hear is nags and complaints about being victims and when you tell them how to get out of their misery they hate you. The only thing they are good at is begging to the world for dollars so they can keep their domestic maids...
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    this solution was proposed in 2019 not as soon as FPM took over the energy portfolio; meaning that FPM was going ahead with the lines it opposed in the past and had to propose a solution because of opposition.

    the point here is not whether these lines are good or bad or if the solution is good or bad, it's the major flip flop of the bassil gang. Once they took over the energy portfolio all of a sudden they flipped 180deg just like they flipped on all other principles and democratic values just to accommodate your beloved napoleon
    So irrespective of Bassil, do you think the mansourieh connection is good/needed or not? That is the important thing. Everything else is silly. He flipped, he didn’t flip is irrelevant... i happen to think it is important and needed, and I would support any party pushing to get it done.
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter

    Hehehehe!! what a hypocrite!! This is the same guy that has cut money from the soldiers monthly dues (in the approved budget) and was so arrogant to defend that cut, and all of this to fullfill his alliance And deliverable to فساد al Hariri!!
    Firstly, this is not the same guy who cut money from the soldiers monthly due. His party supported a budget that would reverse the salary scale increase that a previous government approved, that his party also approved, and turned out to be the wrong thing to do. Secondly, you are missing the fact that the huge deficit we have and have had for decades now has directly lead to the demise of the LBP and crumbling of our already weak economy.... how shortsighted are you to complain about the reversing of that stupid salary scale?
     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    no one ever claimed to follow "modern western style" democracy.
    FPM held an election and no one ran against bassil because most FPMers are wusses, and some of them turned out to be liars as well, not just wusses. those running against bassil withdrew one after the other. even alain aoun who i respect withdrew after realizing he doesn't have the numbers. no one wanted to lose in that election, not even to maintain the appearances of democracy, and when election day came bassil was running on his own. the people who are disenchanted with Basil and FPM could easily vote for someone else.
    Wow. I don't think they are wusses... Not the ones I've met and had dinners with . But Bashar, Berri , Walid, Geagea and Franjiyi will tell you the same thing.. There is phenomenal democratic unity behind them.
     
    Resistancefrom89

    Resistancefrom89

    Well-Known Member
    You are dealing with a mentality that expects everything be given to them and when they trip and fall they sit on the ground and keep crying until someone feels sorry for them and picks them up. It’s always someone else’s fault they are losers. If you’re honest and successful they automatically accuse you of being corrupt so they can justify their own failures.

    All we hear is nags and complaints about being victims and when you tell them how to get out of their misery they hate you. The only thing they are good at is begging to the world for dollars so they can keep their domestic maids...
    If British people were not naggers and did not nag and complain to remove Chamberlain British would have lost the second world war.
    We the people are the one who made the success that made GMA who he was and we the people can equally bring him down, so be careful what you wish for.
     
    Resistancefrom89

    Resistancefrom89

    Well-Known Member
    Firstly, this is not the same guy who cut money from the soldiers monthly due. His party supported a budget that would reverse the salary scale increase that a previous government approved, that his party also approved, and turned out to be the wrong thing to do. Secondly, you are missing the fact that the huge deficit we have and have had for decades now has directly lead to the demise of the LBP and crumbling of our already weak economy.... how shortsighted are you to complain about the reversing of that stupid salary scale?
    This is the exact arrogance and blindness that is leading Bassil to make those decisions withOut reflecting on the impact of the people he is supporting to represent and protect. This cut into soldier dues may look stupid to you (from whatever tower you are looking down to it) but to them , to their families and to their morale it does not.
     
    baleha

    baleha

    Well-Known Member
    I don't know if that place is his property or not, it does not matter, appearing as such surrounded by 40 light bulbs is bad taste, the man is a typical Lebanese politician that lacks taste and empathy.

    Though just one slight comment on the last point at the bottom, on pushing people to comment on what matters (essence of the interview), this is 2021, not 2008, Bassil and the political side he presents have been a failure like others. It is incredible you are blaming people for not listening to this arrogant clown.

    And don't get me started on all the shady and corrupt business and dealings he has with NAder HAriri.


    this is not a photo of el mekhtara palace, nor is it qasr me3rab, nor is the msayleh palaces, nor is it beit el wassat, nor is it el 3amara, nor the bnash3e palace. many have circulated this picture claiming that this is bassil's home. it is not. this is the home bassil helped established in his capacity as foreign minister to the youth of Lebanese origin who want to come back and visit home country, so that they can find good lodging for affordable prices. it is a testimony to working around the clock. additionally, these are eco-friendly diode lights, and more importantly their bills are paid regularly to EDL.

    it would have been much better had people been attacking bassil for something more substantial.

    the sonatrach mafia suspends deliveries, and people attack bassil for it
    the generators mafia switch their generators off, and people attack bassil for it.

    i promise you my friend that very soon, people in beirut will attack him for water shortages also, even those who oppose the basri dam.

    personally, we have never had a single minute of power outage between the EDL power and the local generator. we do not suffer the mafia monopoly over the diesel oil that most Lebanese are being subjected to, particularly in remote places, and if we do, we certainly do not attack the wrong people for it, we know exactly who to go after.

    maybe this is the inevitable outcome of the advent in social media.. but it is still a real shame that this is what some people are commenting on instead of discussing the essence of the interview, regardless of whether they support bassil or not. we really need to push the people to take these issues to the next level.
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    This is the exact arrogance and blindness that is leading Bassil to make those decisions withOut reflecting on the impact of the people he is supporting to represent and protect. This cut into soldier dues may look stupid to you (from whatever tower you are looking down to it) but to them , to their families and to their morale it does not.
    It is the job of politicians to make life better, the economy better, for everybody. Those people who kept pressuring and demonstrating to get increases actually accelerated the fall, and before you jump around to say I am balling them, I am not. The blame goes to the stupid asses that pushed for and approved the bill in parliament - had thy not been so eager to please that pressuring group we would be in better shape today. This is one example. I don’t hate Bassil or FPM for passing The bill, I just opposed it and by extension them. So back to the topic of the thread, the hatred is really juvenile.
     
    Red Phoenix

    Red Phoenix

    Legendary Member
    not to kick a dead horse any further

    but the only thing Bassil successfully managed to pull of so far is destroy FPM and Aounists while himself growing stronger

    even if he is 100% clean and didnt do any fishy dealings (which i personally believe he very most likely did), his 'strategy' really didnt serve in the long run anyone

    not fpm, not aoun, not his allies, not his enemies, not the presidency, not the country, not the population

    at the very least, in the most optimistic of cases, he is a failure if not corrupt

    the same type of failure fpmers used to say about useless christian parties from the past and the failure that is saad hariri

    PS: hiring fpmers left and right in the name of christians in the government a la nabih berri does not constitute a success story

    ba3den what is up with this magical apathy he has towards everyone else? it's 100% like geagea/berri/jumblat

    this is not where i imagined syria liberated lebanon would be 15 years after 2005

    but at least his alliance with Hisbullah is safe and secure..
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    not to kick a dead horse any further

    but the only thing Bassil successfully managed to pull of so far is destroy FPM and Aounists while himself growing stronger

    even if he is 100% clean and didnt do any fishy dealings (which i personally believe he very most likely did), his 'strategy' really didnt serve in the long run anyone

    not fpm, not aoun, not his allies, not his enemies, not the presidency, not the country, not the population

    at the very least, in the most optimistic of cases, he is a failure if not corrupt

    the same type of failure fpmers used to say about useless christian parties from the past and the failure that is saad hariri

    PS: hiring fpmers left and right in the name of christians in the government a la nabih berri does not constitute a success story

    ba3den what is up with this magical apathy he has towards everyone else? it's 100% like geagea/berri/jumblat

    this is not where i imagined syria liberated lebanon would be 15 years after 2005

    but at least his alliance with Hisbullah is safe and secure..
    another sample.

    the irony is that Lebanese believe they should enjoy the same standards of living as people in switzerland do. "who would have imagined this is how Lebanon would be like 15 years after the syrian withdrawal?" leish what made the syrians enter Lebanon at the first place? you guys have the memory of a fruit fly. who do you think destroyed Lebanon but the Lebanese people themselves?

    this isn't the first time christians display these patterns though, they did the same with fouad chehab in the past, and that was the very first domino that fell and lead to all the chaos that followed.
     
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