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Canada's New Facelift by Justin Trudeau

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
it depends on your definition of الفسق و المجون :)
but in any case, this is a country where people tolerate and accept others even if they don't agree with them (veiled women, abortion rights, pro-israel/pro-palestinians, gay rights, the poor, the rich, the handicapped, etc). Those who have issues with being tolerant, probably wouldn't fit in.

Ana b3ardak, ma tjib siret abortion right lianno betla3 men teyebh w mish mni7a bayyen mzallat eddem el 3alam..... :D :D :D
There is nothing called right to kill fetus...
In France 220K are killed each year...Even the worst mass murderers didn't reach this level....
They kill their fetus and go demonstrate if someone kicked a dog...what a hypocrisy...
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Ana b3ardak, ma tjib siret abortion right lianno betla3 men teyebh w mish mni7a bayyen mzallat eddem el 3alam..... :D :D :D
There is nothing called right to kill fetus...
In France 220K are killed each year...Even the worst mass murderers didn't reach this level....
They kill their fetus and go demonstrate if someone kicked a dog...what a hypocrisy...

And not only that, they kill their babies and invite the immigrants to fill the gap because they need workers to support their pension fees, yet when immigrants arrive they are sometimes treated like dogs! The West will pay dearly for its drift from morals and human values... :)
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
And not only that, they kill their babies and invite the immigrants to fill the gap because they need workers to support their pension fees, yet when immigrants arrive they are sometimes treated like dogs! The West will pay dearly for its drift from morals and human values... :)

Very well said....
After our first child we waited many years before having the others.
We didn't have as they call an unplanned pregnancy because we were taking precautions (PS. No pills).
We are not smarter than anyone, so the idea of pregnancy by error, mistake, accident does not pass with me....
Even if it were an error, people take responsibility for their errors in every society.
If you hit someone with your car by accident, you will pay him indemnities......
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Very well said....
After our first child we waited many years before having the others.
We didn't have as they call an unplanned pregnancy because we were taking precautions (PS. No pills).
We are not smarter than anyone, so the idea of pregnancy by error, mistake, accident does not pass with me....
Even if it were an error, people take responsibility for their errors in every society.
If you hit someone with your car by accident, you will pay him indemnities......

I think it is our duty to become more active in local political parties and social organizations if we really want to resist the acceptability of "murder rights" for killing unwanted babies :) Either educate the ones committing "errors" as for how they should avoid the deadly errors, or adopt the unwanted little victims and educate them to become efficient contributors to the society growth instead of tacharch7o the immigrants!

Ironically JustLeb, the 220K babies killed every year in France could compensate the 250K immigrants that France accepts yearly and over which the French political parties are fighting with potentially growing social problems :) What goes around, comes around.
 
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Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
and an increase of taxes for the wealthy ones (those might make big money but they also help creating jobs for many others).

They can help create jobs because they got lucky life circumstances. Why should they get lucky twice and be rewarded for being born lucky?

The outcome of such logic is that those who weren't born lucky, and didn't get the means to develop their potential, remain at the mercy of the former.

When the rich pay higher taxes, the money can be used to help narrow the gap between those on top and those at the bottom. Instead of almost everyone being forced into corporate servitude, some might be able to open their own small business, for example, and create jobs of their own.
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
They can help create jobs because they got lucky life circumstances. Why should they get lucky twice and be rewarded for being born lucky?

The outcome of such logic is that those who weren't born lucky, and didn't get the means to develop their potential, remain at the mercy of the former.

When the rich pay higher taxes, the money can be used to help narrow the gap between those on top and those at the bottom. Instead of almost everyone being forced into corporate servitude, some might be able to open their own small business, for example, and create jobs of their own.

When someone strives to become successful and consequently wealthy, luck counts only for 10% while hard work counts for 90%. No one finds his/her money on the streets, but when people are used to a system that regardless of what you do you will get your pension anyways, why get educated and work?

I know young people who are on wellfare not because they can't work but simply because they don't want to. Check the rate of education drop also, that gives you an idea about the culture of laziness that is being implemented in Canada. People are already taxed enough, and an increase of taxes for the very wealthy ones will end up pushing those to move elsewhere, most probably to our southern neighbour, and we end up with less income for the federal and provincial governments because those who can provide money simply hachalo :)
 
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Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
When someone strives to become successful and consequently wealthy, luck counts only for 10% while hard work counts for 90%. No one finds his/her money on the streets, but when people are used to a system that regardless of what you do you will get your pension anyways, why get educated and work?

I don't believe in meritocracy.

Yes, between two people with exactly the same "luck" in life, the one working harder will succeed more. But between someone born very lucky and someone born in hardship, no matter how hard the latter works, he won't catch up with the former. (Very exceptional cases exist, but we're talking general rules here).

No one finds his/her money on the streets, but when people are used to a system that regardless of what you do you will get your pension anyways, why get educated and work?

Because the welfare and the pension will barely cover your expenses, and if you want to afford more than your very basic expenses, you need to work.

I know young people who are on wellfare not because they can't work but simply because they don't want to. Check the rate of education drop also, that gives you an idea about the culture of laziness that is being implemented in Canada.

I'm sure there are better explanations than a "culture of laziness."

People are already taxed enough, and an increase of taxes for the very wealthy ones will end up pushing those to move elsewhere, most probably to our southern neighbour and end up with less income for the federal and provincial governments because those who can provide money simply hachalo :)

And that's called being blackmailed...which is basically the state of global capitalism today. "Us lucky bastards are rich, but we want to get richer and have more privileges, and if you don't let us get away with it here, we will take our slave jobs and miserable salaries elsewhere." People are being forced to give in to these thieves just so they can keep the crumbs that they are barely surviving on.
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I don't believe in meritocracy.

Yes, between two people with exactly the same "luck" in life, the one working harder will succeed more. But between someone born very lucky and someone born in hardship, no matter how hard the latter works, he won't catch up with the former. (Very exceptional cases exist, but we're talking general rules here).

What do you mean by luck Indie? If every person who happens to be born in a poor family wil sit and cry his luck, you wouldn't have any wealthy people that can be taxed :) Matter of fact, the wealthy ones who don't keep up with working while counting only on their luck end up often depending on others to survive.

Because the welfare and the pension will barely cover your expenses, and if you want to afford more than your very basic expenses, you need to work.

No, it is not fair that those who work have to provide pension for someone who chose not to work counting on the basics that the society can provide. I understand people who cannot work because of health issues for example, but those are a minority and I have nothing against helping them out.

I'm sure there are better explanations than a "culture of laziness."

Then why the youth are dropping out of colleges?

And that's called being blackmailed...which is basically the state of global capitalism today. "Us lucky bastards are rich, but we want to get richer and have more privileges, and if you don't let us get away with it here, we will take our slave jobs and miserable salaries elsewhere." People are being forced to give in to these thieves just so they can keep the crumbs that they are barely surviving on.

That is not blackmail that is the truth. Look at the Quebec health system for example, every year a big percentage of doctors end up leaving to the US because they get double their salaries and way less taxes. What happens here, we have a shortage of doctors so if you get sick you have to wait months before getting the chance to be examined, and all the money the government is paying to educate the doctors who left is simply wasted.
 
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Dreaming in Red

Active Member
Canada is bent on disintegration. Once it faces any weakness in economy it will happen, and the disintegrated parts form the canadian union like in europe. I think its better for Canadians and for the world.
 

loubnaniTO

Legendary Member
Staff member
Super Penguin
lTO, I don't think "abortion rights" can be placed on an equal stance with other items you listed, and without opening the debate here again, abortion rights = murder rights :) Killing a 1 minute old human is exactly the same thing as killing a many years old human. Had the hundreds of thousands aborted babies been given the chance to live they would have been contributing the Western socities and work force in the same way each one of us is doing. Instead of defending the murder rights, governments should develop plans for "adopting and raising" those unwanted babies.

intolerant towards salafis

enjoy it when canada turns into l parts of france or UK or Amsterdam

Robert Spencer in FrontPage: Justin Trudeau: Canada’s Obama

Ana b3ardak, ma tjib siret abortion right lianno betla3 men teyebh w mish mni7a bayyen mzallat eddem el 3alam..... :D :D :D
There is nothing called right to kill fetus...
In France 220K are killed each year...Even the worst mass murderers didn't reach this level....
They kill their fetus and go demonstrate if someone kicked a dog...what a hypocrisy...

wow.. hold your horses everyone. Yes, i don't want this thread to turn into a debate about abortion, but just to clarify, i (loubnanito) am PERSONALLY against abortion. I'd hate to see people aborting, while others desperate to have children.
That said though, abortion is happening whether it is legal or not. And unfortunately when it's happening illegally, it is happening in a cruel way and posing a health threat even to the mother. So there is one view, and then there is the other view - women who call for their right to do whatever they want with their own body... so it is controversial to say the least. I would be more in favour of regulating it, and at the same time campaigning to discourage women from doing it... making it "illegal" will not eliminate it.

that's my 2 cents, wanted just to clarify my position, but yea let's not turn this into an abortion thread.. we can open another one :)
 

HannaTheCrusader

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
wow.. hold your horses everyone. Yes, i don't want this thread to turn into a debate about abortion, but just to clarify, i (loubnanito) am PERSONALLY against abortion. I'd hate to see people aborting, while others desperate to have children.
That said though, abortion is happening whether it is legal or not. And unfortunately when it's happening illegally, it is happening in a cruel way and posing a health threat even to the mother. So there is one view, and then there is the other view - women who call for their right to do whatever they want with their own body... so it is controversial to say the least. I would be more in favour of regulating it, and at the same time campaigning to discourage women from doing it... making it "illegal" will not eliminate it.

that's my 2 cents, wanted just to clarify my position, but yea let's not turn this into an abortion thread.. we can open another one :)

I am pro female rights

so why did you lump me iwth them

anyway, i feel canada with this new leader , he might mess things up and turn it , into canadistan
 

loubnaniTO

Legendary Member
Staff member
Super Penguin
Are you sure about the equitable and environmentally friendly part? He supports the keystone pipeline, no?

Is the Keystone Pipeline bad for the environment? or the oil that it carries? if you dont build the Keystone Pipeline do you think that people will go about without oil? they will find other sources of oil (probably from Venezuela) that is even dirtier. The solution is not to cancel the pipeline but rather to find alternative solutions to oil
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
wow.. hold your horses everyone. Yes, i don't want this thread to turn into a debate about abortion, but just to clarify, i (loubnanito) am PERSONALLY against abortion. I'd hate to see people aborting, while others desperate to have children.
That said though, abortion is happening whether it is legal or not. And unfortunately when it's happening illegally, it is happening in a cruel way and posing a health threat even to the mother. So there is one view, and then there is the other view - women who call for their right to do whatever they want with their own body... so it is controversial to say the least. I would be more in favour of regulating it, and at the same time campaigning to discourage women from doing it... making it "illegal" will not eliminate it.

that's my 2 cents, wanted just to clarify my position, but yea let's not turn this into an abortion thread.. we can open another one :)

I elaborated on the issue of abortion lTO because Trudeau made all his candidates sign a commitment paper regarding the "abortion rights" before the elections. Good to know that you are against it!

Even those saying that women are free to do whatever they want with their bodies and those promoting abortion as a "right" should understand that this is a murder, regardless if it is committed "legally" or illegally :) A government that campaigns for making abortion as an acceptable "right" is not doing a good thing because it is a way to promote murder.
 

loubnaniTO

Legendary Member
Staff member
Super Penguin
I am pro female rights

so why did you lump me iwth them

anyway, i feel canada with this new leader , he might mess things up and turn it , into canadistan

didn't mean to lump you with their "opinions" , but rather with the subject at hand.

as for "Canadistan", if one is tolerant, it doesn't mean that they will compromise on security. Our security has never been as threatened as it has been since Harper (the hardline right wing) has been in office.
As a reminder, his father who was Prime Minister in the late 60s to the 80s. He's the one who promoted tolerance and equal rights in Canada, but when it came to security, you couldn't mess with him. He was questioned at one point by reporters as to how far he would go in deploying the army, his famous line was "just watch me"/

So yes, his son's performance is yet to be tested, but all i am saying, being tolerant and compassionate, and security do not have to be mutually exclusive.
 

Danny Z

Legendary Member
I elaborated on the issue of abortion lTO because Trudeau made all his candidates sign a commitment paper regarding the "abortion rights" before the elections. Good to know that you are against it!

Even those saying that women are free to do whatever they want with their bodies and those promoting abortion as a "right" should understand that this is a murder, regardless if it is committed "legally" or illegally :) A government that campaigns for making abortion as an acceptable "right" is not doing a good thing because it is a way to promote murder.

Murder as defined by societies is when a human is killed, a fetus is not human because it cannot exist on its own, it has to be in the fetus of the mother to live, so as long as it is a fetus it is like any other living organ in the body, like a kidney, is removing a kidney willingly murder?
On the other hand my sperm can make a baby, should I be allowed to flush it down the toilet or is it a murder as well?
Back to the political debate here, we are passed the issue whether abortion is murder or not. This discussion reached the supreme court in the nineties and abortion law were tossed away because law was in breach of Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which guarantees the right to life, liberty, and security of the person. As one of the justices stated: "The right to liberty...guarantees a degree of personal autonomy over important decisions intimately affecting his or her private life. ... The decision whether or not to terminate a pregnancy is essentially a moral decision and in a free and democratic society, the conscience of the individual must be paramount to that of the state."

Stop living in the past
 
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Genius

Legendary Member
Murder as defined by societies is when a human is killed, a fetus is not human because it cannot exist on its own, it has to be in the fetus of the mother to live, so as long as it is a fetus it is like any other living organ in the body, like a kidney, is removing a kidney willingly murder?
On the other hand my sperm can make a baby, should I be allowed to flush it down the toilet or is it a murder as well?

A sensitive subject. There is no black and white.

Although I understand the arguments of the pro-life camp, and the abuse of some women to the availability of abortion, the experience of banning abortion or making it inaccessible have shown in some countries the spread of illegal clinics and illegal "doctors" or practitioners that left many women dead, sick or scared for life.

Even in the most pretentious puritan religious countries ... you would be surprised what is going on beneath the surface.
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Murder as defined by societies is when a human is killed, a fetus is not human because it cannot exist on its own, it has to be in the fetus of the mother to live, so as long as it is a fetus it is like any other living organ in the body, like a kidney, is removing a kidney willingly murder?
On the other hand my sperm can make a baby, should I be allowed to flush it down the toilet or is it a murder as well?
Back to the political debate here, we are passed the issue whether abortion is murder or not. This discussion reached the supreme court in the nineties and abortion law were tossed away because law was in breach of Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which guarantees the right to life, liberty, and security of the person. As one of the justices stated: "The right to liberty...guarantees a degree of personal autonomy over important decisions intimately affecting his or her private life. ... The decision whether or not to terminate a pregnancy is essentially a moral decision and in a free and democratic society, the conscience of the individual must be paramount to that of the state."

Stop living in the past

Part of the abortion killing procedure is extracting the fetus from the mother, no? and it cannot be compared to a kidney, cos a kidney has no chance in becoming a full human being like you :) Tell that to the parents who are dying to have kid maybe the kidney comparison can help them :)

Past or not past, putting an end to a human life is murder regardless of laws drafted by other humans. Anyways, this is a debate where no one would "win" and everyone has its own opinion that is dictated by his/her conscience. If you are OK with abortion others are not. As simple as that :)
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
A sensitive subject. There is no black and white.

Although I understand the arguments of the pro-life camp, and the abuse of some women to the availability of abortion, the experience of banning abortion or making it inaccessible have shown in some countries the spread of illegal clinics and illegal "doctors" or practitioners that left many women dead, sick or scared for life.

Even in the most pretentious puritan religious countries ... you would be surprised what is going on beneath the surface.

The issue is not to ban abortion because everything mamnou3 marghoub :) People should be made aware about what abortion is in fact and how it puts an end to a life and let them chose which way to go. Governments however can provide plans to adopt and raise the unwanted babies whose parents do not wish to get rid of but cannot afford to raise.
 
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