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Canada's New Facelift by Justin Trudeau

Danny Z

Legendary Member
A sensitive subject. There is no black and white.

Although I understand the arguments of the pro-life camp, and the abuse of some women to the availability of abortion, the experience of banning abortion or making it inaccessible have shown in some countries the spread of illegal clinics and illegal "doctors" or practitioners that left many women dead, sick or scared for life.

Even in the most pretentious puritan religious countries ... you would be surprised what is going on beneath the surface.
In Canada this subject is closed, you want to discuss this subject, it is not in this thread, in Canada abortion is not even an issue, it is a basic right emanating from of the charter of right
 

Danny Z

Legendary Member
The issue is not to ban abortion because everything mamnou3 marghoub :) People should be made aware about what abortion is in fact and how it puts an end to a life and let them chose which way to go. Governments however can provide plans to adopt and raise the unwanted babies whose parents do not wish to get rid of but cannot afford to raise.
Take your abortion discussion to another thread, in Canada this discussion is closed. Why are you spamming the thread with this discussion?
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
In Canada this subject is closed, you want to discuss this subject, it is not in this thread, in Canada abortion is not even an issue, it is a basic right emanating from of the charter of right

And by the same charter of right, people have the right to say that it is murder :) Discussing this issue here is not a spam when it was an item of Trudeau electoral platform.
 

Danny Z

Legendary Member
Part of the abortion killing procedure is extracting the fetus from the mother, no? and it cannot be compared to a kidney, cos a kidney has no chance in becoming a full human being like you :) T
But my sperm can become a full being and I throw it down the drain, please take this discussion outside this thread.
 

Danny Z

Legendary Member
And by the same charter of right, people have the right to say that it is murder :) Discussing this issue here is not a spam when it was an item of Trudeau electoral platform.

No they have no right, the supreme court has already ruled and it is the higher order of law in the land, laws are not your personal opinion.
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
No they have no right, the supreme court has already ruled and it is the higher order of law in the land, laws are not your personal opinion.

So the supreme court will forbid me from voicing my opinion? That is not Canada anymore that is a dictatorship :) They can draft their laws but I have the right to agree with their laws or not.

Moreover, if one day the supreme court judges become all pro-life they will reverse the law, and forbid you from voicing your opinion, no?
 
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Danny Z

Legendary Member
So the supreme court will forbid me from voicing my opinion? That is not Canada anymore that is a dictatorship :) They can draft their laws but I have the right to agree with their laws or not.

Moreover, if one day the supreme court judges become all pro-life they will reverse the law, and forbid you from voicing your opinion, no?

You can voice your opinion as much as you want, you can even say that the earth is square as well, it is just a discussion that history has shelved in Canada, the society in general has moved on.
 

kmarthe

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You can voice your opinion as much as you want, you can even say that the earth is square as well, it is just a discussion that history has shelved in Canada, the society in general has moved on.

LOL tayyeb w enta ley ze3len? Me and the Canadian society will deal with each others. Live and let live man, I respect your opinion you can also respect mine without denigrating it :)
 

Danny Z

Legendary Member
LOL tayyeb w enta ley ze3len? Me and the Canadian society will deal with each others. Live and let live man, I respect your opinion you can also respect mine without denigrating it :)
Sorry but it is a monologue, you can have this discussion in another thread, do you see Canadian wasting time on these issues? let's talk about legalizing marijuana here, it is a subject that is not yet closed in the Canadian society.
 

mikeys71

Well-Known Member
And not only that, they kill their babies and invite the immigrants to fill the gap because they need workers to support their pension fees, yet when immigrants arrive they are sometimes treated like dogs! The West will pay dearly for its drift from morals and human values... :)
Lebanese should be the last people on earth to talk about Human Values. Let's not air our dirty laundry...
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What do you mean by luck Indie? If every person who happens to be born in a poor family wil sit and cry his luck, you wouldn't have any wealthy people that can be taxed :) Matter of fact, the wealthy ones who don't keep up with working while counting only on their luck end up often depending on others to survive.

I never said anything about a poor person sitting around and crying over his bad luck, or a rich person sitting around and laughing over his good luck. I specifically said that, all other factors being equal (i.e. intelligence, hard work, etc.) between person X and person Y, the one who's born in a wealthier environment will have a head start, while the other will play catch up.

No, it is not fair that those who work have to provide pension for someone who chose not to work counting on the basics that the society can provide. I understand people who cannot work because of health issues for example, but those are a minority and I have nothing against helping them out.

Most people work if they can find a job. No one who is healthy physically and psychologically, and has a decent opportunity for work, will chose to sit around all day and live off of welfare.

This idea that the rich work hard and are forced to support the "lazy poor" is wrong on so many levels. It's elitist, it's insulting, and it's false. Poor people work very hard. Often, they work harder than rich people, without the benefits that rich people have.

Then why the youth are dropping out of colleges?

There could be many reasons why youth are dropping out of college. I certainly never heard anyone say they're dropping out of college because they want to live the rest of their life on welfare.

That is not blackmail that is the truth. Look at the Quebec health system for example, every year a big percentage of doctors end up leaving to the US because they get double their salaries and way less taxes. What happens here, we have a shortage of doctors so if you get sick you have to wait months before getting the chance to be examined, and all the money the government is paying to educate the doctors who left is simply wasted.

That being the truth and that being blackmail are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it is the truth that most economic policy is based on the blackmail from multinational corporations that they will take their business elsewhere if we don't let them get away with screwing everyone.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Is the Keystone Pipeline bad for the environment? or the oil that it carries? if you dont build the Keystone Pipeline do you think that people will go about without oil? they will find other sources of oil (probably from Venezuela) that is even dirtier. The solution is not to cancel the pipeline but rather to find alternative solutions to oil

No one will find alternative solutions to oil when you have politicians being lobbied to support projects like the keystone pipeline.
 

The Bidenator

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Most people work if they can find a job. No one who is healthy physically and psychologically, and has a decent opportunity for work, will chose to sit around all day and live off of welfare.

Oh you would be surprised. I know somebody, an able-bodied person who is a few years older than I, who went to Nebraska to file for welfare and collect checks -- because he was not qualified in California. He quit his job so he can receive welfare checks (including food stamp and section 8) and medical.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Oh you would be surprised. I know somebody, an able-bodied person who is a few years older than I, who went to Nebraska to file for welfare and collect checks -- because he was not qualified in California. He quit his job so he can receive welfare checks (including food stamp and section 8) and medical.

Anecdotal evidence Muki :) One or even ten examples don't make the rule.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Also...why is everyone outraged when a few people screw the system for a few hundred dollars...but find excuses for big corporations screwing the system of millions, if not billions of dollars?
 

Genius

Legendary Member
In Canada this subject is closed, you want to discuss this subject, it is not in this thread, in Canada abortion is not even an issue, it is a basic right emanating from of the charter of right

You seem so bothered by the subject :)

Nothing is closed, societies are dynamic, same as morality and practices. Plus, it was a hot topic under Harper. Therefore it fits right here in the thread.
 

The Bidenator

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I don't believe in meritocracy.

Yes, between two people with exactly the same "luck" in life, the one working harder will succeed more. But between someone born very lucky and someone born in hardship, no matter how hard the latter works, he won't catch up with the former. (Very exceptional cases exist, but we're talking general rules here).

I'm not sure whether you really do not believe in 'meritocracy' in the context of workplace, or just meritocracy when applied to government and social institutions. Meritocracy in the workplace is very much desirable to any employee who wishes to advance in their professional career. I wouldn't want to be working 60 hour weeks, then have the boss's cousin get promoted over me just because of the nature of their relationship. I want my merits to be the basis of consideration for said promotion.

Regardless, success has everything to do with luck (among others). Read Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" and you will understand what I mean by this. An example off the top of my head: People born in January are more advantaged than people born in December, when it comes to NHL in Canada.

There are a lot of reasons to tax the rich and [more importantly] mitigate or eliminate the damage of venture capitalism, but the arguments you make here fall short. It's not a catch-up between the rich and poor, and not everyone is financially equal. I have to go drive to beat traffic, so maybe I will expand more when I have the time, but we have done this back-and-forth a few years ago so I am sure you know what I'm talking about.
 

Danny Z

Legendary Member
You seem so bothered by the subject :)

Nothing is closed, societies are dynamic, same as morality and practices. Plus, it was a hot topic under Harper. Therefore it fits right here in the thread.
I am bothered by people wanting to spill their outdated beliefs on threads that have nothing to do with their religion.
No it was not a topic under Harper. I posted a link to show that Harper government said it was not going to reopen the debate, now we moved to another thread you want to talk abortion go there.
 

The Bidenator

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Anecdotal evidence Muki :) One or even ten examples don't make the rule.

It wasn't proof of anything; we're just having a conversation.

I highly doubt there are statistics that captures the following question: "Are you able to work yet choose not to work in order to collect welfare?"

I can do a search later, but I doubt I'll find anything. The question itself is incriminating (for the lack of a better word), so no one would really answer it in an honest manner. But think about the following for a moment.

35.4% of the US population is on welfare (Dept. of Commerce). I find it hard to believe that over 110 million people are incapable of working. Not only that, but people on welfare do not have an incentive to work. Welfare pays more than $8/hr minimum wage in 39 states, more than $12/hr in 6 states, and more than the average salary of a teacher in 8 states (ibid.).
 

Genius

Legendary Member
I am bothered by people wanting to spill their outdated beliefs on threads that have nothing to do with their religion.
No it was not a topic under Harper. I posted a link to show that Harper government said it was not going to reopen the debate, now we moved to another thread you want to talk abortion go there.

It was a big topic few years ago, and there was an abortion bill to be presented under the conservatives, then Harper decided to not go ahead with it, you can research it, although it was not part of this elections debate. Anyways, m out of this discussion and this disgusting forum, not even sure why I posted about it. Enjoy.
 
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