Causes of Lebanon 1958 and 1975 Civil Wars

Ice Tea

Ice Tea

Member
I am not looking for excuses, I am simply stating a fact.
I'm also stating facts. Pre civil-war, Christian-ruled Lebanon was the financial center of the Middle East, and had a pib per capita higher than Israel and on pair with some European countries even.
Again, this with a 50% Muslim population trying to sabotage the country at all costs. Do you think that's easy to accomplish?! Lebanese Christians have proved they can successfully self rule.
 
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  • proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    I'm also stating facts. Pre civil-war, Christian-ruled Lebanon was the financial center of the Middle East, and had a pib per capita higher than Israel and on pair with some European countries even.
    Again, this with a 50% Muslim population trying to sabotage the country at all costs. Do you think that's easy to accomplish?! Lebanese Christians have proved they can successfully self rule.
    Lebanon was created in 1943.

    Throughout it's short history country had 2 (hot) civil wars.

    My question - who started each war and why?
     
    L

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    Lebanon was created in 1943.

    Throughout it's short history country had 2 (hot) civil wars.

    My question - who started each war and why?
    In 1975 the Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon and the Lebanese Left led by Kamal Jumblat and most Muslims suppported them
    The Mufti Hassan Khaled said in 1975
    The Palestinians are the army of the Muslims
    The Lebanese Army divided and it was the civil war
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    Lebanon was created in 1943.

    Throughout it's short history country had 2 (hot) civil wars.

    My question - who started each war and why?
    The same people who started all the wars with Israel. These people (and I don't even mean only Arab Muslims, since there were even Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis, Kurds etc who came to help their Muslim brothers during the war) can't stand the idea of a non-Monolithic Muslim Middle East stuck in the 8th century. How can you expect a country to successfully exist when they become the majority?
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    In 1975 the Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon and the Lebanese Left led by Kamal Jumblat and most Muslims suppported them
    The Mufti Hassan Khaled said in 1975
    The Palestinians are the army of the Muslims
    The Lebanese Army divided and it was the civil war
    I have different information regarding how 1975 was has started.
    "In 1975 the Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" is impossible to accomplish had it been just Palis against the rest of the Lebanon.

    In reality before "Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" they actually were invited by one of your fractions to provide support in your own war against each other and only later Palis became a runaway train.

    That is regarding 1975 civil war.

    However, if I am not mistaking it was a war #2, there was another civil war in Lebanon earlier, in the late 1950s.

    Still, who started both wars?
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    The same people who started all the wars with Israel. These people (and I don't even mean only Arab Muslims, since there were even Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis, Kurds etc who came to help their Muslim brothers during the war) can't stand the idea of a non-Monolithic Muslim Middle East stuck in the 8th century. How can you expect a country to successfully exist when they become the majority?
    Between 1948 and 1973 all war with Israel were started by pan-Arabs, Christians and Muslims alike.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    I have different information regarding how 1975 was has started.
    "In 1975 the Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" is impossible to accomplish had it been just Palis against the rest of the Lebanon.

    In reality before "Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" they actually were invited by one of your fractions to provide support in your own war against each other and only later Palis became a runaway train.

    That is regarding 1975 civil war.

    However, if I am not mistaking it was a war #2, there was another civil war in Lebanon earlier, in the late 1950s.

    Still, who started both wars?
    Your information are not factual... While indeed there were Palestinians in Lebanon before the civil war it wasn't until the Cairo agreement that they were given the right to carry arms and they attempted to overthrow the king in Jordan which subsequently lead to them getting kicked out and seeking refuge in Lebanon and Syria... Following those events the Palestinians clashed with the Lebanese army and had control over their camps in Lebanon, please note all of the above happened before the 1975 war.

    Long story short, the Palestinians were not invited into Lebanon to provide support for anyone and their presence in Lebanon is a major contributing factor to the civil war as they contributed heavily towards the destabilisation of Lebanon and increasing sectarian strife.
     
    L

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    I have different information regarding how 1975 was has started.
    "In 1975 the Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" is impossible to accomplish had it been just Palis against the rest of the Lebanon.

    In reality before "Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" they actually were invited by one of your fractions to provide support in your own war against each other and only later Palis became a runaway train.

    That is regarding 1975 civil war.

    However, if I am not mistaking it was a war #2, there was another civil war in Lebanon earlier, in the late 1950s.

    Still, who started both wars?
    But I told you the Lebanese left supported the Palestinians plus the majority of Muslims
    Christians were in power
    The Lebanese divided over 2 issues
    Support for Palestinians attacks on Israel and Palestinians control over certain Lebanese regions
    Constitutional provisions of powers
    In 1958
    Also two Issues
    The Role Of Lebanon during Nasser the Egyptian President who unified the Arab World behind him
    Chamoun the Christian President Of the time followed s pro western policy adhering to anti communism alliance of Baghdad plus he was accused in 1958 he wanted to extend his term; he asked the US marines help in 1958 . He was able to resist Nasser takeover of Lebanon.
    This can give you an idea
    Lebanese Civil War - Wikipedia 1975

    1958 Lebanon crisis - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited:
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Your information are not factual... While indeed there were Palestinians in Lebanon before the civil war it wasn't until the Cairo agreement that they were given the right to carry arms and they attempted to overthrow the king in Jordan which subsequently lead to them getting kicked out and seeking refuge in Lebanon and Syria... Following those events the Palestinians clashed with the Lebanese army and had control over their camps in Lebanon, please note all of the above happened before the 1975 war.

    Long story short, the Palestinians were not invited into Lebanon to provide support for anyone and their presence in Lebanon is a major contributing factor to the civil war as they contributed heavily towards the destabilisation of Lebanon and increasing sectarian strife.
    "Long story short, the Palestinians were not invited into Lebanon to provide support" - I am talking about Palis who already were in the country.

    As to Black September, weren't Palis kicked out of Jordan into Tunisia.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Lebanon refused to participate in 1967 and 1973 wars
    Christians President decided that .
    Yes, but it is not particularly relevant because in 1948 Lebanon attacked Israel along with the rest and decided to remain at war with Israel ever since.
     
    manifesto

    manifesto

    Well-Known Member
    I have different information regarding how 1975 was has started.
    "In 1975 the Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" is impossible to accomplish had it been just Palis against the rest of the Lebanon.

    In reality before "Palestinians tried to takeover Lebanon" they actually were invited by one of your fractions to provide support in your own war against each other and only later Palis became a runaway train.

    That is regarding 1975 civil war.

    However, if I am not mistaking it was a war #2, there was another civil war in Lebanon earlier, in the late 1950s.

    Still, who started both wars?
    Most historians and political analysts agree that it was Christians, precisely far-Right Maronites, who started the cycle of sectarian violence.
    Following an assassination attempt on Pierre Gemayel, which was blamed on the PLO, the Kataeb responded by attacking a bus carrying Palestinians, killing most on board, including women and children.

    This horrible crime was followed by the Karantina massacre which took the lives of not only Palestinian refugees but also many Lebanese Muslim civilians.
    What started as clashes between the PLO and Kataeb turned into a bitter sectarian war where killing based on religion was the norm.

    The reason Lebanese Muslims sided with the Palestinians in the first place is due to the injustices they suffered at the hands of political Maronitism.
    For years, Maronites had been monopolizing the economy and marginalizing all other sects, which resulted in the resentment of Muslims and Druze against Maronites.
    For instance, in 1974, Camille Chamoun launched a war against Sidon's poor by banning them from fishing on its coast.

    One can argue there are many causes for the civil war, but it my opinion it boils down to one thing: Maronite arrogance.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Most historians and political analysts agree that it was Christians, precisely far-Right Maronites, who started the cycle of sectarian violence.
    Following an assassination attempt on Pierre Gemayel, which was blamed on the PLO, the Kataeb responded by attacking a bus carrying Palestinians, killing most on board, including women and children.

    This horrible crime was followed by the Karantina massacre which took the lives of not only Palestinian refugees but also many Lebanese Muslim civilians.
    What started as clashes between the PLO and Kataeb turned into a bitter sectarian war where killing based on religion was the norm.

    The reason Lebanese Muslims sided with the Palestinians in the first place is due to the injustices they suffered at the hands of political Maronitism.
    For years, Maronites had been monopolizing the economy and marginalizing all other sects, which resulted in the resentment of Muslims and Druze against Maronites.
    For instance, in 1974, Camille Chamoun launched a war against Sidon's poor by banning them from fishing on its coast.

    One can argue there are many causes for the civil war, but it my opinion it boils down to one thing: Maronite arrogance.
    What were Palestinians doing between 1969 and April 13, 1975?
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Most historians and political analysts agree that it was Christians, precisely far-Right Maronites, who started the cycle of sectarian violence.
    Following an assassination attempt on Pierre Gemayel, which was blamed on the PLO, the Kataeb responded by attacking a bus carrying Palestinians, killing most on board, including women and children.

    This horrible crime was followed by the Karantina massacre which took the lives of not only Palestinian refugees but also many Lebanese Muslim civilians.
    What started as clashes between the PLO and Kataeb turned into a bitter sectarian war where killing based on religion was the norm.

    The reason Lebanese Muslims sided with the Palestinians in the first place is due to the injustices they suffered at the hands of political Maronitism.
    For years, Maronites had been monopolizing the economy and marginalizing all other sects, which resulted in the resentment of Muslims and Druze against Maronites.
    For instance, in 1974, Camille Chamoun launched a war against Sidon's poor by banning them from fishing on Sidon's coast.

    One can argue there are many causes for the civil war, but it my opinion it boils down to one thing: Maronite arrogance.
    I definitely do not know contemporary Lebanon's history firsthand, but I too have an impression (from what I read) that at least one (if not both) Lebanon civil war was started by some Christian sect.
     
    manifesto

    manifesto

    Well-Known Member
    I definitely do not know contemporary Lebanon's history firsthand, but I too have an impression (from what I read) that at least one (if not both) Lebanon civil war was started by some Christian sect.
    The first civil war happened in 1860 between Druze and Maronites.

    But post Lebanon's independence, there was only one civil war (1975-1990).
    There was a political conflict between Christians and Muslims in 1958, but it didn't escalate into a civil war.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I definitely do not know contemporary Lebanon's history firsthand, but I too have an impression (from what I read) that at least one (if not both) Lebanon civil war was started by some Christian sect.
    Not true.

    1958 civil war erupted after Muslims -- ordered, armed, and supplied by United Arab Republic (Egypt + Syria) -- rebelled against Maronite government because the latter wanted to remain aligned with Western powers, mainly the US, which interfered after call by Lebanon's President and after Iraq's government fell.

    1975 civil war was started by Palestinians and their Muslim backers, and the problems that eventually led to a full-fledged war in 1975 began with 1969 Cairo Agreement that legalized Palestinian armed presence in Lebanon, which Lebanon was forced to sign once again under pressure of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Anyone who claims the bus massacre began the war is simply ignorant of all the events and Palestinian harassment of Christian (even non-Christian) civilians that preceded it.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    The first civil war happened in 1860 between Druze and Maronites.

    But post Lebanon's independence, there was only one civil war (1975-1990).
    There was a political conflict between Christians and Muslims in 1958, but it didn't escalate into a civil war.
    "There was a political conflict between Christians and Muslims in 1958, but it didn't escalate into a civil war"

    Granted, it was relatively short, but it too took away few thousands of people.
     
    L

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    The first civil war happened in 1860 between Druze and Maronites.

    But post Lebanon's independence, there was only one civil war (1975-1990).
    There was a political conflict between Christians and Muslims in 1958, but it didn't escalate into a civil war.
    Palestinians said Jerusalem or al qads road pass by Jounieh
    And the Muslim mufti said
    The Palestinians are the Muslims army
    Unfortunately in 1975 many Muslims leaders were traitors against their country
    This destroyed Lebanon in a time when most Lebanese in 1975 were ready to support civil marriages and to pass to a non sectarian state slowly but surely
    I know there was Economic and Social inequalities but everything was better than the civil war
    Lebanon was the Paris of the Middle East
    The Palestinians terrorists and their Muslims allies which did not represent all Muslims destroyed the most beautiful country in the Middle East
    And supported terrorists attacks on the world
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Not true.

    1958 civil war erupted after Muslims -- ordered, armed, and supplied by United Arab Republic (Egypt + Syria) -- rebelled against Maronite government because the latter wanted to remain aligned with Western powers, mainly the US, which interfered after call by Lebanon's President and after Iraq's government fell.

    1975 civil war was started by Palestinians and their Muslim backers, and the problems that eventually led to a full-fledged war in 1975 began with 1969 Cairo Agreement that legalized Palestinian armed presence in Lebanon, which Lebanon was forced to sign once again under pressure of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Anyone who claims the bus massacre began the war is simply ignorant of all the events and Palestinian harassment of Christian (even non-Christian) civilians that preceded it.
    Looks like there are as many opinions as there are people.
     
    L

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    I definitely do not know contemporary Lebanon's history firsthand, but I too have an impression (from what I read) that at least one (if not both) Lebanon civil war was started by some Christian sect.
    It is not important how it started
    We were attacked by terrorists Palestinians who were comitting terrorists attacks in the whole world
    Arafat the terrorist was leading them
     
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