Causes of Lebanon 1958 and 1975 Civil Wars

LVV

LVV

Well-Known Member
Most historians and political analysts agree that it was Christians, precisely far-Right Maronites, who started the cycle of sectarian violence.
Following an assassination attempt on Pierre Gemayel, which was blamed on the PLO, the Kataeb responded by attacking a bus carrying Palestinians, killing most on board, including women and children.

This horrible crime was followed by the Karantina massacre which took the lives of not only Palestinian refugees but also many Lebanese Muslim civilians.
What started as clashes between the PLO and Kataeb turned into a bitter sectarian war where killing based on religion was the norm.

The reason Lebanese Muslims sided with the Palestinians in the first place is due to the injustices they suffered at the hands of political Maronitism.
For years, Maronites had been monopolizing the economy and marginalizing all other sects, which resulted in the resentment of Muslims and Druze against Maronites.
For instance, in 1974, Camille Chamoun launched a war against Sidon's poor by banning them from fishing on its coast.

One can argue there are many causes for the civil war, but it my opinion it boils down to one thing: Maronite arrogance.
Whatever happened no body can be a traitor against his own country and army
Why Lebanon will be the only Arab state to open its borders to terrorists attacks of the Palestinians on the world
Maronite agreed to Lebanon independence from France
Muslims received a lot from Independent Lebanon
There was Social inequality but the Muslims socio economic position was better every year
In 1960 Christians agreed to equality in administrative position
Everything was better than the civil war
The major problem was Muslims support to the Palestinians against their own country
All Arab states refused to give a green light to the Palestinians except in Lebanon
Muslims Lebanese were different than Muslims all over the Middle East
 
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  • Muki

    Muki

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Looks like there are as many opinions as there are people.
    The events happened, they are not opinion they are fact.

    What is opinion is what degree of importance do you attribute to all these events (the ones I mention and the ones others do). In my opinion, events that changed the makeup of Lebanon are the most important factors in beginning of civil wars. Events like Cairo agreement (and it's reprecussions) and UAR backing of Muslim rebellion.
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    In 1958 Muslims Lebanese sided with Nasser
    In 1920 they were against the creation of modern Lebanon independent from Syria
    In 1975 they sided with the Palestinians
    Today some of them sided with Isis and Islamic
    Other are with HA
    When will they learn to be first and foremost Lebanese with the Lebanese Army
    The Maronite have also their mistake and they are not angels
    They should have treated Muslims better but they did not betray their country
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    The events happened, they are not opinion they are fact.

    What is opinion is what degree of importance do you attribute to all these events (the ones I mention and the ones others do). In my opinion, events that changed the makeup of Lebanon are the most important factors in beginning of civil wars. Events like Cairo agreement (and it's reprecussions) and UAR backing of Muslim rebellion.
    "The events happened, they are not opinion they are fact" - "What is opinion is what degree of importance do you attribute to all these events"

    And the above is perfect explanation of why we have different opinions.
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    Yes, but it is not particularly relevant because in 1948 Lebanon attacked Israel along with the rest and decided to remain at war with Israel ever since.
    That’s another matter
    Today HA complicate any attempt to establish peace with Israel
    Internal stability is the main concern
    Solving HA weapons is the major headache for Lebanon today
    Nobody wants another civil war
    Yet we have a state inside the state
    Something understands by the Crusader in Chief
    Nobody is supporting the Lebanese Army more than the Trump Administration 500 millions dollars per year to balance HA power
    The US were clear with Israel
    We will not stop your support for Lebanon Government and the Lebanese Army to balance HA to fight terrorism and 2 millions refugees in Lebanon
    US don’t accept Israel claims the Lebanese Government is one with HA
    And President Trump is Israel biggest supporter
     
    Last edited:
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Not true.

    1958 civil war erupted after Muslims -- ordered, armed, and supplied by United Arab Republic (Egypt + Syria) -- rebelled against Maronite government because the latter wanted to remain aligned with Western powers, mainly the US, which interfered after call by Lebanon's President and after Iraq's government fell.

    1975 civil war was started by Palestinians and their Muslim backers, and the problems that eventually led to a full-fledged war in 1975 began with 1969 Cairo Agreement that legalized Palestinian armed presence in Lebanon, which Lebanon was forced to sign once again under pressure of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Anyone who claims the bus massacre began the war is simply ignorant of all the events and Palestinian harassment of Christian (even non-Christian) civilians that preceded it.

    A civil war was imminent sooner or later. The PLO presence was only the trigger.

    If Maronites hadn't imposed a total dominance on Lebanon's politics and economic resources, perhaps they wouldn't have alienated Muslims and Druze. It was the social inequalities that exacerbated sectarian hatred.

    Who the hell monopolizes fishing rights on a coast that fed thousands of poor families?

    People often view the Lebanese civil war as a war between Christians and the PLO, and ignore the numerous social and economic factors that led to it.
    The civil war was also a power conflict between the uninhibited capitalism and fascism of Maronites and socialism.
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    A civil war was imminent sooner or later. The PLO presence was only the trigger.

    If Maronites hadn't imposed a total dominance on Lebanon's politics and economic resources, perhaps they wouldn't have alienated Muslims and Druze. It was the social inequalities that exacerbated sectarian hatred.

    Who the hell monopolizes fishing rights on a coast that fed thousands of poor families?

    People often view the Lebanese civil war as a war between Christians and the PLO, and ignore the numerous social and economic factors that led to it.
    The civil war was also a power conflict between the uninhibited capitalism and fascism of Maronites and socialism.
    Again totally wrong
    Capitalism was present in all Lebanese Community
    Many capitalists were Muslims
    The one who fighted the socialists party of Jumblat was a feudal party who wanted to restore Druze power
    Maronite were not obliged to support lazy people like today the situation continues
    Most taxpayers are Christians, most state employees Muslims
    In spirit of everything Muslims were advancing under independent Lebanon
    Every year their social positions advanced
    In the administration they dominated it
    Like 1958
    1975 or today always the Same problem
    Muslims loyalty is outside Lebanon
    KSA or Iran in 2018
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    In 1958 Muslims Lebanese sided with Nasser
    In 1920 they were against the creation of modern Lebanon independent from Syria
    In 1975 they sided with the Palestinians
    Today some of them sided with Isis and Islamic
    Other are with HA
    When will they learn to be first and foremost Lebanese with the Lebanese Army
    The Maronite have also their mistake and they are not angels
    They should have treated Muslims better but they did not betray their country

    This only proves the obvious. They are not Lebanese, they are just generic Muslim Arabs no different from other Muslims Arabs in the Middle East.

    Imo only Christians and Druze can be Lebanese. As much as Druze sided with Palestinians (which I believe they regret today), they didn't support a union with Egypt and Syria in 1958 for example. The concept of an independent Lebanon actually dates back to Fakhreddine who wanted an independent Mount Lebanon for both Christians and Druze and even tried to convince the Europeans to fight against the Ottomans.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    A civil war was imminent sooner or later. The PLO presence was only the trigger.

    If Maronites hadn't imposed a total dominance on Lebanon's politics and economic resources, perhaps they wouldn't have alienated Muslims and Druze. It was the social inequalities that exacerbated sectarian hatred.

    Who the hell monopolizes fishing rights on a coast that fed thousands of poor families?

    People often view the Lebanese civil war as a war between Christians and the PLO, and ignore the numerous social and economic factors that led to it.
    The civil war was also a power conflict between the uninhibited capitalism and fascism of Maronites and socialism.
    There are plenty of factors, but a single event in 1975 is not trigger of civil war. You can't cherry pick, you have to follow chronology of events. The Muslims supported foreign interference in Lebanon and in both 1958 and 1975 attempted rebellion leading to civil war, brief in the first and major in the second.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    A civil war was imminent sooner or later. The PLO presence was only the trigger.

    If Maronites hadn't imposed a total dominance on Lebanon's politics and economic resources, perhaps they wouldn't have alienated Muslims and Druze. It was the social inequalities that exacerbated sectarian hatred.

    Who the hell monopolizes fishing rights on a coast that fed thousands of poor families?

    People often view the Lebanese civil war as a war between Christians and the PLO, and ignore the numerous social and economic factors that led to it.
    The civil war was also a power conflict between the uninhibited capitalism and fascism of Maronites and socialism.

    Not true. Muslims sided with Palestinians simply due to their hatred of Christians. Most striking thing is Shiites who were also persecuted by Palestinians prior to war, eventually decided to side with Palestinians. Druze sided with Palestinians for different reasons, they were trying to remind Christians who the boss were, and eventually started driving Christians out of Shouf/Aley because they were predicting Lebanon was going to be partitioned.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    In 1958 Muslims Lebanese sided with Nasser
    In 1920 they were against the creation of modern Lebanon independent from Syria
    In 1975 they sided with the Palestinians
    Today some of them sided with Isis and Islamic
    Other are with HA
    When will they learn to be first and foremost Lebanese with the Lebanese Army
    The Maronite have also their mistake and they are not angels
    They should have treated Muslims better but they did not betray their country
    I think Muslims were right to object the creation of modern Lebanon.
    After all, Lebanon was intended as a Christian enclave. The Bekaa, Tripoli, and Sidon were annexed to Greater Lebanon by force, against the will of the local Muslim population.
    Muslims foresaw their predicament and realized they would be reduced to nothing more than a number in a Maronite-majority country.

    And how right they were! The subsequent years confirmed their fears.
    Maronite leaders acted like they were the sole owners of this newly-formed state, plundering the country's wealth and monopolizing decision-making.

    It took 47 years and and a civil war for Muslims to become equal citizens.
    The Lebanese Civil War should be renamed the "Lebanese Muslim Civil Rights Movement."
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    Yes, but it is not particularly relevant because in 1948 Lebanon attacked Israel along with the rest and decided to remain at war with Israel ever since.
    Lebanon didn't 'attack' Israel in 1948. There was no direct confront. Lebanon was part of the Arab League and as such it was forced to show commitment to the war. In fact it was the Maronite Church (who openly supported the creation of Israel in the early 40s btw) who stepped in to avoid any confrontation. Then a few Muslims crossed into Israel on their own and were expelled and that's it.

    "Lebanon's army was the smallest of the Arab armies, consisting of only 3,500 soldiers. In June 1947, Ben-Gurion arrived at an agreement with the Maronite religious leadership in Lebanon that cost a few thousand pounds and kept Lebanon's army out of the War of Independence and the military Arab coalition. According to Rogan and Shlaim, a token force of 1,000 was committed to the invasion. It crossed into the northern Galilee and was repulsed by Israeli forces. Israel then invaded and occupied southern Lebanon until the end of the war."
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Not true. Muslims sided with Palestinians simply due to their hatred of Christians. Most striking thing is Shiites who were also persecuted by Palestinians prior to war, eventually decided to side with Palestinians.
    When the war broke out between the Kataeb and PLO, Shiites didn't take part in the fighting.
    The Lebanese Left has always failed to attract Shiites. It's true that the SSNP and LCP included Shiites among their ranks but they were far and few in-between.

    It wasn't until the mid-80s that the Shiites officially joined the war, and their goal wasn't to fight Christians, but to curb PLO militancy (contrary to what you said.) However Amal took it a bit too far.
    It was then that Hizbullah decided to intervene to put an end to the crimes that were being committed by Amal against Palestinian civilians.
    And this is something they take credit for.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    When the war broke out between the Kataeb and PLO, Shiites didn't take part in the fighting.
    The Lebanese Left has always failed to attract Shiites. It's true that the SSNP and LCP included Shiites among their ranks but they were far and few in-between.

    It wasn't until the mid-80s that the Shiites officially joined the war, and their goal wasn't to fight Christians, but to curb PLO militancy (contrary to what you said.) However Amal took it a bit too far.
    It was then that Hizbullah decided to intervene to put an end to the crimes that were being committed by Amal against Palestinian civilians.
    And this is something they take credit for.
    My bad. I forgot that Shiites were the first to welcome Israel to fight Palestinians by Musa al Sadr himself and about Amal's fierce fights against Palestinians. Such a pity that the Islamic revolution happened in Iran and thus the whole Shiite community became heavily radicalized.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    There are plenty of factors, but a single event in 1975 is not trigger of civil war. You can't cherry pick, you have to follow chronology of events. The Muslims supported foreign interference in Lebanon and in both 1958 and 1975 attempted rebellion leading to civil war, brief in the first and major in the second.
    Following the Anglo-French-Israeli invasion of the Suez Canal, Lebanese Muslims grew resentful of Western imperialism.

    Camille Chamoun added insult to injury by backing the Baghdad Pact.

    As a president you have to take into consideration the different political and cultural views of your country's citizens.
    Muslims, who represented half of the country at the time, rejected rapprochement with the West in favor of Arab unity.

    Chamoun should have known better than to ignore an integral part of Lebanon's society.
    He could have maintained Lebanon's neutrality, at the very least.

    His totalitarian style and unilateral decision-making sowed the first seed of the Lebanese Civil War.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Following the Anglo-French-Israeli invasion of the Suez Canal, Lebanese Muslims grew resentful of Western imperialism.

    Camille Chamoun added insult to injury by backing the Baghdad Pact.

    As a president you have to take into consideration the different political and cultural views of your country's citizens.
    Muslims, who represented half of the country at the time, rejected rapprochement with the West in favor of Arab unity.

    Chamoun should have known better than to ignore an integral part of Lebanon's society.
    He could have maintained Lebanon's neutrality, at the very least.

    His totalitarian style and unilateral decision-making sowed the first seed of the Lebanese Civil War.
    Chamoun defended Lebanon's interests. Lebanon's interests weren't its dissolution as an independent state and addition to a newly-created, short-lived Republic with Egypt and Syria.

    The interests of vast majority of Muslim citizens weren't in joining Arab wars and dissolution of Lebanon as an independent state, either, despite the decisions made by their political leaders.

    Chamoun tried to maintain Lebanon's neutrality and shield it from regional conflicts. Muslim community rebelled and dragged Lebanon into regional conflicts.
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    Following the Anglo-French-Israeli invasion of the Suez Canal, Lebanese Muslims grew resentful of Western imperialism.

    Camille Chamoun added insult to injury by backing the Baghdad Pact.

    As a president you have to take into consideration the different political and cultural views of your country's citizens.
    Muslims, who represented half of the country at the time, rejected rapprochement with the West in favor of Arab unity.

    Chamoun should have known better than to ignore an integral part of Lebanon's society.
    He could have maintained Lebanon's neutrality, at the very least.

    His totalitarian style and unilateral decision-making sowed the first seed of the Lebanese Civil War.
    You know what I will not reply to your arguments
    I already did
    Let’s divide this country
    If we Christians are so bad , let’s get a divorce
    But it is the Muslim who are refusing the divorce and federal Lebanon because they know they are shits without the Christian paying their bills
    Muslims were traitors to their country in 1920
    1958
    1975
    And even today
    Shia with Iran
    Sunnis with KSA
    Don’t give us lessons
    Go pay your taxes and Electricity bills
    You should have remained part of Syria in 1920
    Christians Lebanon should have been like Monaco
    A small Lebanon without our burdens
     
    I

    illusion84

    New Member
    Sectarianism is the cause of all the civil wars in Lebanon.

    You can not blame it only on Maronites as other sects are as much sectarians as Maronites.

    All sects are seeking their own benefits and they don't care about Lebanon as a country.

    Look at us today, Lebanon economy is crumbling and still Christians are fighting for a Veto power for the Christian president, Shia are fighting to deny this Veto power and to infiltrate the Sunnis; Sunnis are fighting to deny the Veto power the Shia and infiltration and so on...

    Pre war Lebanon was not a bright country, maybe Beirut and part of Mount Lebanon benefited to some extent, but South, North, Bekaa, and many areas of Mount Lebanon suffered regional discrimination. Lebanese also suffered discrimination based on religion...

    No one would be living a good life and seeks a bloody civil war! For example in nowadays even though most lebanese are living shitty life; they avoided at all extant a civil war... It is the only bright spot of the recent years.
     
    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Well-Known Member
    Most historians and political analysts agree that it was Christians, precisely far-Right Maronites, who started the cycle of sectarian violence.
    Akid, akid, most historians and political analysts à la Baathi-awmé flavor.

    the Kataeb responded by attacking a bus carrying Palestinians, killing most on board, including women and children.
    The Kataeb responded by attacking a bus carrying armed Palestinians, who were still shooting from ambulances while being evacuated to hospitals.

    This horrible crime was followed by the Karantina massacre which took the lives of not only Palestinian refugees but also many Lebanese Muslim civilians.
    This is what happened between the "horrible crime" and the "Karantina massacre":

    May 20, 1975: Palestinians in Tall el Zaatar attacked Dekwaneh. Civilians were killed and/or beheaded.

    September 10, 1975: Deir Ashash massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    September 11, 1975: Beit Mellat massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    October 9, 1975: Tall Abbas massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    October 30, 1975: Massacre in the convent of Naameh by Palestinians and Syrians.

    December 6, 1975: The assassination of 4 Kataeb on the Fanar road provoked the Black Saturday.

    January 9, 1976: Damour and Jieh massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    January 15, 1976: Kab Elias massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    January 18, 1976: Deir Jennine massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    January 18, 1976: Karantina battle.

    For years, Maronites had been monopolizing the economy and marginalizing all other sects, which resulted in the resentment of Muslims and Druze against Maronites.
    Khay, at last! Now other sects have been monopolizing the economy since 1990, and they’re doing miracles!

    One can argue there are many causes for the civil war, but it my opinion it boils down to one thing: Maronite arrogance.
    and whose arrogance from 1990 till 2018? Let us compare it to the "Maronite arrogance".
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    I'm also stating facts. Pre civil-war, Christian-ruled Lebanon was the financial center of the Middle East, and had a pib per capita higher than Israel and on pair with some European countries even.
    Again, this with a 50% Muslim population trying to sabotage the country at all costs. Do you think that's easy to accomplish?! Lebanese Christians have proved they can successfully self rule.
    Israel boasts itself of being a technological and scientific hub in the middle east while other countries are bloodthirsty, retrogressive and full of retarded cannibals trying to eliminate itself self acclaimed progressive nature. But this same apartheid Israel, that is a western/American colonial project in the Middle East, receives annual aide of four billion dollars from the USA and their intelligence services, agents and spies, in conjunction with other western intelligence agencies are always working round the clock to sabotage, vandalize and destroy the progress, unity and power of those countries surrounding and that are opposed to the Zionist apartheid regime in occupied Palestine.

    Similarly, apartheid White South Africa was a nuclear power. They had nuclear weapons and Israel recognized them as a legitimate authority in an ocean of oppressed black African people.

    Likewise in Lebanon, when you act as the mechanism for a western/French colonial installed regime, which is apartheid in nature, sectarian and racist, all your claims of achievements aren't worth the tissue paper in the bathroom. It is of no hidden secret that western domination came partly or solely as a result of colonialism and looting the resources of Africa, Asia and Latin America and the subjugation of millions into slavery and conquest. And from their ill-gotten wealth, they can afford to legitimize the illegitimate and vindicate the oppressor and promote the tyrant and demonize the victims and oppressed. Today, the American dollar survives and thrives thanks to oil from the Middle East. And the oil will continue to flow for as long as its puppets in the Arabian peninsula countries are willing pro$titutes, who are subservient to American dictates while they are afraid of their own populations. So, if your achievements are based on injustice, inequality, unfairness, apartheid, discrimination, racism, please we as Lebanese people are not interested. We prefer our freedom while being wretched. What you're boasting of isn't by any chance a display or proof of Maronite superiority at governance. It is an exposition that the Maronites were patronized by western powers and supported in order for Lebanon, an Arab country like any other, to become a financial hub and with thriving economy. A country lined up with banks in the streets and lined up with empty stomachs in its houses. Again, we as Lebanese, do not need anyone who claims superiority or misbehave like a special breed of extraterrestrials with supernatural powers to govern us under apartheid.

    It is time to dismantle our confessional/sectarianism an apartheid regime and in fact, long overdue. Taef accord has set a mechanism. We need to fully implement taef to the letter. Otherwise, the hope of building any modern progressive state will remain an illusion.
     
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