Causes of Lebanon 1958 and 1975 Civil Wars

Rachel Corrie

Rachel Corrie

Legendary Member
Sectarianism is the cause of all the civil wars in Lebanon.

You can not blame it only on Maronites as other sects are as much sectarians as Maronites.

All sects are seeking their own benefits and they don't care about Lebanon as a country.

Look at us today, Lebanon economy is crumbling and still Christians are fighting for a Veto power for the Christian president, Shia are fighting to deny this Veto power and to infiltrate the Sunnis; Sunnis are fighting to deny the Veto power the Shia and infiltration and so on...

Pre war Lebanon was not a bright country, maybe Beirut and part of Mount Lebanon benefited to some extent, but South, North, Bekaa, and many areas of Mount Lebanon suffered regional discrimination. Lebanese also suffered discrimination based on religion...

No one would be living a good life and seeks a bloody civil war! For example in nowadays even though most lebanese are living shitty life; they avoided at all extant a civil war... It is the only bright spot of the recent years.
The big catastrophe is not in having brain dead and retrogressive sectarian bigots as compatriots. The big catastrophe was when sectarianism and bigotry were systemized into a so called confession/sectarian system of governance. We have a mechanism in place, in the form of the system of governance, through which sectarian bigotry is systemized and immortalized. Shame!
 
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  • Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    Lebanon refused to participate in 1967 and 1973 wars
    Christians President decided that .
    While this appears to you as a sign of something to take pride in while conversing with your Zionist friend, you forget that the sole intentions were racist. The Palestinians are mostly Muslims, so being indifferent to their plight and trying to appear "neutral" to aide the oppressor and follow western dictates and colonial plans were what made your Maronite leaders, and precisely the Kataeb leaders, follow that route in a majority Muslim country ruled by a Maronite apartheid regime. And you think everything will be fine and great? And lest we forget, the same Israel invaded and drove out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians into Lebanon itself.
     
    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Active Member
    I'm also stating facts. Pre civil-war, Christian-ruled Lebanon was the financial center of the Middle East, and had a pib per capita higher than Israel and on pair with some European countries even.
    Again, this with a 50% Muslim population trying to sabotage the country at all costs. Do you think that's easy to accomplish?! Lebanese Christians have proved they can successfully self rule.
    That's a narrow and ignorant analysis. The causes of the Lebanese civil wars are the same forces that constantly keep Lebanon on the brink today, sectarianism coupled with geopolitics. Albeit, both 1958 and 1975 were proxy wars more than anything. As far as the outcome, unfortunately no one benefited more than Israel. Rather than normalizing relations with their host and focusing on Israel, the Palestinians wreaked havoc where they went. Not entirely their fault considering they were without homes or a country. Plus they were egged on by Lebanese muslims who saw them as their emancipators from a rigged system designed to empower christians over muslims. Not surprisingly, the maronite superiority complex was stubborn. Maronites identified more with the west who sold them out almost at every instant. Funnily enough, they were the last to see that. Even today, some still don't see past their noses as demonstrated by some members on this forum.

    Unfortunately, once you’re in the midst of a sectarian war, moderate voices are drowned out and everything becomes about survival. Growing up on the christian side of the green line as it was known back then. Bachir Gemayel was a hero to us. Arafat’s road through Jerusalem leads through Jounieh did much to deepen the sectarian divide, and was subsequently, defeated. By the same token, leaders like Bachir were a product of the sectarian system. Meaning his like were part of the problem as far as christian superiority and the utter neglect of the other half of the population. On the flip side, Muslims had a score to settle with christians and went to extremes to seize power. Though a noble cause, it was quickly hijacked by foreign powers and they played the perfect pawns.

    Case in point, Lebanon is an artificial country and should never have been carved out by the French and British. Anyway, too late now to go around redrawing maps. First step toward real sovereignty is to reject sectarianism. With it, loyalty will always be to the sect. Without it, gradually we can emerge from the stone age.
     
    Last edited:
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    Whatever happened no body can be a traitor against his own country and army
    Why Lebanon will be the only Arab state to open its borders to terrorists attacks of the Palestinians on the world
    Maronite agreed to Lebanon independence from France
    Muslims received a lot from Independent Lebanon
    There was Social inequality but the Muslims socio economic position was better every year
    In 1960 Christians agreed to equality in administrative position
    Everything was better than the civil war
    The major problem was Muslims support to the Palestinians against their own country
    All Arab states refused to give a green light to the Palestinians except in Lebanon
    Muslims Lebanese were different than Muslims all over the Middle East
    When you treat your fellow countrymen as inferior and impose on them a regine of subjugation, what do you expect them to do?

    Joining forces with the Palestinians was motivated by feelings of victimization by the state and marginalization.
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    In 1958 Muslims Lebanese sided with Nasser
    In 1920 they were against the creation of modern Lebanon independent from Syria
    In 1975 they sided with the Palestinians
    Today some of them sided with Isis and Islamic
    Other are with HA
    When will they learn to be first and foremost Lebanese with the Lebanese Army
    The Maronite have also their mistake and they are not angels
    They should have treated Muslims better but they did not betray their country
    Today, no one stands against the Lebanese army...largely, the Lebanese from all sects are with the Lebanese army. The Lebanese army has learnt how to stay clear and not allow itself to be politicized. Unfortunately, army leadership is still politicized and based on sectarian consideration.
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    That’s another matter
    Today HA complicate any attempt to establish peace with Israel
    Internal stability is the main concern
    Solving HA weapons is the major headache for Lebanon today
    Nobody wants another civil war
    Yet we have a state inside the state
    Something understands by the Crusader in Chief
    Nobody is supporting the Lebanese Army more than the Trump Administration 500 millions dollars per year to balance HA power
    The US were clear with Israel
    We will not stop your support for Lebanon Government and the Lebanese Army to balance HA to fight terrorism and 2 millions refugees in Lebanon
    US don’t accept Israel claims the Lebanese Government is one with HA
    And President Trump is Israel biggest supporter
    So it actually took the existence of a well organized and armed resistance to occupation movement before the US sees it fit to help our army? If our army was string enough with American support to preserve Lebanon's sovereignty, there won't have been need for people to take up arms. And if there was no Israeli occupation and sending us gifts of Palestinian refugees, we won't have had wars. But of course, the south and its safety was never the priority of the Lebanese government. It was until 2006 war before the Lebanese army mover to the border area. Was that a responsible state?

    What is blocking peace with Israel is Israel itself and its atrocities and violations of our sovereignty. It is not HA. They should take back the Palestinian refugees or repatriate them into an Arabian country. Leaving the Palestinians to remain refugees, hoping their cause will die off once the parents die, won't solve anything. The children will remain stateless and not be granted Lebanese citizenship. Israel should withdraw from remaining Lebanese territories too. Your racism comes in when you refuse to see that the Palestinian problem in Lebanon is borne out of Israeli excesses, atrocities and violations and chiefly, through the invasion and occupation of Palestine.
     
    Jo

    Jo

    Administrator
    Master Penguin
    In my opinion, the Lebanese civil war had many direct and indirect reasons dating back to 1948.
    To list a few:
    • The 1948 displacement of the Palestinians
    • The Christian political rule that undermined Muslims.
    • The growing feeling of pan-Arabism and left-wing groups.
    • Muslims were feeling injustice by the rule, regardless if it brought prosperity to the country. Their areas were underdeveloped and poor, their youth were uneducated in most cases.
    • Nasser's heavy influence & interference on the Lebanese Muslims. Nasser hated Chamoun, the latter also backed western powers that attacked Egypt during the Suez Crisis.
    • Baghdad Pact.
    • The 1958 crisis which saw Christians siding with the west and Muslims siding with the Arab countries backed by the Soviets.
    • The 1967 displacement of the Palestinians
    • Lebanon's fragile army - The Palestinians took control over the army barracks on the borders with Israel in 1968 after minor skirmishes and the LAF retreating.
    • Deployment of Arab National Movement (Georges Habash forces) and the PLO in Lebanon by Nasser
    • The inability of the LAF lead by General Fouad Chehab to end the chaos/revolution in Tripoli and around Beirut - which lead to the interference of the Kataeb with a counter-revolution.
    • By the end of the 1960s, more than 400,000 Palestinians were present in Lebanon - mostly armed after being kicked from Jordan (refer to the Black September events)
    • Lebanese Sunnis saw in the Palestinians a chance to change the Political system and gain more power hence they backed them and protected them.
    • By the early 1970s, the PLO had controlled most of Sidon, Tyre and big parts of South Lebanon - They had also trained a lot Sunni groups and shipped fighters from Lybia and Algeria through the ports that they controlled (Sidon, Tyre, Tripoli)
    • The failed attempt of President Camil Chamoun to monopolize fishing along the coast of Lebanon which lead to the 1975 revolution of fishermen in Sidon.
    • The assassination of Maarouf Saad which was blamed on Camil Chamoun. Camil Chamoun also blamed the PLO saying that Saad was narrowing the differences between the Fishing company and fishermen by agreeing on a win-win deal for both - The army lost control of Sidon shortly after that incident.
    After that, things escalated quickly leading to more attacks by the PLO on the Kataeb & Christians and retaliation by the Kataeb.

    Check @Lebanon_not_Arabic post

    May 20, 1975: Palestinians in Tall el Zaatar attacked Dekwaneh. Civilians were killed and/or beheaded.

    September 10, 1975: Deir Ashash massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    September 11, 1975: Beit Mellat massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    October 9, 1975: Tall Abbas massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    October 30, 1975: Massacre in the convent of Naameh by Palestinians and Syrians.

    December 6, 1975: The assassination of 4 Kataeb on the Fanar road provoked the Black Saturday.

    January 9, 1976: Damour and Jieh massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    January 15, 1976: Kab Elias massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    January 18, 1976: Deir Jennine massacres by Palestinians and Syrians.

    January 18, 1976: Karantina battle.
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    K
    While this appears to you as a sign of something to take pride in while conversing with your Zionist friend, you forget that the sole intentions were racist. The Palestinians are mostly Muslims, so being indifferent to their plight and trying to appear "neutral" to aide the oppressor and follow western dictates and colonial plans were what made your Maronite leaders, and precisely the Kataeb leaders, follow that route in a majority Muslim country ruled by a Maronite apartheid regime. And you think everything will be fine and great? And lest we forget, the same Israel invaded and drove out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians into Lebanon itself.
    kataeb opened on Israel after Muslims collaborated with Palestinians against their country
    It was a desperate act
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    In my opinion, the Lebanese civil war had many direct and indirect reasons dating back to 1948.
    To list a few:
    • The 1948 displacement of the Palestinians
    • The Christian political rule that undermined Muslims.
    • The growing feeling of pan-Arabism and left-wing groups.
    • Muslims were feeling injustice by the rule, regardless if it brought prosperity to the country. Their areas were underdeveloped and poor, their youth were uneducated in most cases.
    • Nasser's heavy influence & interference on the Lebanese Muslims. Nasser hated Chamoun, the latter also backed western powers that attacked Egypt during the Suez Crisis.
    • Baghdad Pact.
    • The 1958 crisis which saw Christians siding with the west and Muslims siding with the Arab countries backed by the Soviets.
    • The 1967 displacement of the Palestinians
    • Lebanon's fragile army - The Palestinians took control over the army barracks on the borders with Israel in 1968 after minor skirmishes and the LAF retreating.
    • Deployment of Arab National Movement (Georges Habash forces) and the PLO in Lebanon by Nasser
    • The inability of the LAF lead by General Fouad Chehab to end the chaos/revolution in Tripoli and around Beirut - which lead to the interference of the Kataeb with a counter-revolution.
    • By the end of the 1960s, more than 400,000 Palestinians were present in Lebanon - mostly armed after being kicked from Jordan (refer to the Black September events)
    • Lebanese Sunnis saw in the Palestinians a chance to change the Political system and gain more power hence they backed them and protected them.
    • By the early 1970s, the PLO had controlled most of Sidon, Tyre and big parts of South Lebanon - They had also trained a lot Sunni groups and shipped fighters from Lybia and Algeria through the ports that they controlled (Sidon, Tyre, Tripoli)
    • The failed attempt of President Camil Chamoun to monopolize fishing along the coast of Lebanon which lead to the 1975 revolution of fishermen in Sidon.
    • The assassination of Maarouf Saad which was blamed on Camil Chamoun. Camil Chamoun also blamed the PLO saying that Saad was narrowing the differences between the Fishing company and fishermen by agreeing on a win-win deal for both - The army lost control of Sidon shortly after that incident.
    After that, things escalated quickly leading to more attacks by the PLO on the Kataeb & Christians and retaliation by the Kataeb.

    Check @Lebanon_not_Arabic post
    But let’s not forget
    Muslims PM could stop the administration of the state
    Karame In 1969
    The PM was almost as powerful as the President
    Actually taif codified many of the Customs of the period
    President Shihab gave Muslims equality in the administration
    Muslims Social position was getting better year by year
    Maronite leaders did not build a state
    They failed to have a hindsight about reforms and building an army and giving nationality to immigrants
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    Israel boasts itself of being a technological and scientific hub in the middle east while other countries are bloodthirsty, retrogressive and full of retarded cannibals trying to eliminate itself self acclaimed progressive nature. But this same apartheid Israel, that is a western/American colonial project in the Middle East, receives annual aide of four billion dollars from the USA and their intelligence services, agents and spies, in conjunction with other western intelligence agencies are always working round the clock to sabotage, vandalize and destroy the progress, unity and power of those countries surrounding and that are opposed to the Zionist apartheid regime in occupied Palestine.

    Similarly, apartheid White South Africa was a nuclear power. They had nuclear weapons and Israel recognized them as a legitimate authority in an ocean of oppressed black African people.

    Likewise in Lebanon, when you act as the mechanism for a western/French colonial installed regime, which is apartheid in nature, sectarian and racist, all your claims of achievements aren't worth the tissue paper in the bathroom. It is of no hidden secret that western domination came partly or solely as a result of colonialism and looting the resources of Africa, Asia and Latin America and the subjugation of millions into slavery and conquest. And from their ill-gotten wealth, they can afford to legitimize the illegitimate and vindicate the oppressor and promote the tyrant and demonize the victims and oppressed. Today, the American dollar survives and thrives thanks to oil from the Middle East. And the oil will continue to flow for as long as its puppets in the Arabian peninsula countries are willing pro$titutes, who are subservient to American dictates while they are afraid of their own populations. So, if your achievements are based on injustice, inequality, unfairness, apartheid, discrimination, racism, please we as Lebanese people are not interested. We prefer our freedom while being wretched. What you're boasting of isn't by any chance a display or proof of Maronite superiority at governance. It is an exposition that the Maronites were patronized by western powers and supported in order for Lebanon, an Arab country like any other, to become a financial hub and with thriving economy. A country lined up with banks in the streets and lined up with empty stomachs in its houses. Again, we as Lebanese, do not need anyone who claims superiority or misbehave like a special breed of extraterrestrials with supernatural powers to govern us under apartheid.

    It is time to dismantle our confessional/sectarianism an apartheid regime and in fact, long overdue. Taef accord has set a mechanism. We need to fully implement taef to the letter. Otherwise, the hope of building any modern progressive state will remain an illusion.

    The only countries today that come close to resemble an Apartheid are Arab or Muslim countries.

    And I don't know why you keep singling out the Maronites, all Lebanese Christians are equally superior.
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    You know what I will not reply to your arguments
    I already did
    Let’s divide this country
    If we Christians are so bad , let’s get a divorce
    But it is the Muslim who are refusing the divorce and federal Lebanon because they know they are shits without the Christian paying their bills
    Muslims were traitors to their country in 1920
    1958
    1975
    And even today
    Shia with Iran
    Sunnis with KSA
    Don’t give us lessons
    Go pay your taxes and Electricity bills
    You should have remained part of Syria in 1920
    Christians Lebanon should have been like Monaco
    A small Lebanon without our burdens
    If you want a divorce, you can leave. Simple.

    But you can't divorce us and stay in our house. Out of the eight provinces in Lebanon, you might have a majority population in only one province (and that itself is disputed because Mouth Lebanon is diverse and may further be divided to allow you remain a majority).
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    When you treat your fellow countrymen as inferior and impose on them a regine of subjugation, what do you expect them to do?

    Joining forces with the Palestinians was motivated by feelings of victimization by the state and marginalization.
    Really being a traitor and destroying your country
    The Muslims PM was very powerful before 1975
    Karame imposed the Cairo deal in 1969
    It is true the Maronite President was the most powerful but Christians treated Muslim much better in a prosperous Lebanon independent 1943/1975
    Than Muslims rule 1990/2005 which was a subjected corrupted country
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    The only countries today that come close to resemble an Apartheid are Arab or Muslim countries.

    And I don't know why you keep singling out the Maronites, all Lebanese Christians are equally superior.
    You claim superiority and reject the apartheid label. How does this work in your brain? Or maybe you don't have a brain or you don't know English? You're mystifying.
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    If you want a divorce, you can leave. Simple.

    But you can't divorce us and stay in our house. Out of the eight provinces in Lebanon, you might have a majority population in only one province (and that itself is disputed because Mouth Lebanon is diverse and may further be divided to allow you remain a majority).
    You are refusing divorce or even federal Lebanon
    Give Us Achrafieh
    Keserwan Matn Baabda Zahle and the Christian North and parts of Shouf and Jezzin and we leave you the rest
    We take 2000 take 8000
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    You claim superiority and reject the apartheid label. How does this work in your brain? Or maybe you don't have a brain or you don't know English? You're mystifying.

    Not a claim. A fact. Lebanese Christians outperform Muslims by a large distance in literally everything (except crime, violence and terrorism of course).
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    K

    kataeb opened on Israel after Muslims collaborated with Palestinians against their country
    It was a desperate act
    Why didnt the Kataeb themselves aide the Palestinians and stand by their cause and oppose Israel? Its for racist considerations. Lebanese generally, from all sects, are racists. But the Maronite racism is the icing on the pudding. Its racism par excellence!
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    You are refusing divorce or even federal Lebanon
    Give Us Achrafieh
    Keserwan Matn Baabda Zahle and the Christian North and parts of Shouf and Jezzin and we leave you the rest
    We take 2000 take 8000
    Even if we got only Keserwan, it would still be better than sharing a country with Muslims and the same that happened to Assyrians happens to us.
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    Really being a traitor and destroying your country
    The Muslims PM was very powerful before 1975
    Karame imposed the Cairo deal in 1969
    It is true the Maronite President was the most powerful but Christians treated Muslim much better in a prosperous Lebanon independent 1943/1975
    Than Muslims rule 1990/2005 which was a subjected corrupted country
    Why do you have to treat any one group of people "much better"? As compared to whom and to what? You're sugarcoating the racism that took place back then. You need to treat none much more better. Just treat everyone equally as Lebanese and citizens. Why is that allergic to the Lebanese being?
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    While this appears to you as a sign of something to take pride in while conversing with your Zionist friend, you forget that the sole intentions were racist. The Palestinians are mostly Muslims, so being indifferent to their plight and trying to appear "neutral" to aide the oppressor and follow western dictates and colonial plans were what made your Maronite leaders, and precisely the Kataeb leaders, follow that route in a majority Muslim country ruled by a Maronite apartheid regime. And you think everything will be fine and great? And lest we forget, the same Israel invaded and drove out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians into Lebanon itself.
    Today, no one stands against the Lebanese army...largely, the Lebanese from all sects are with the Lebanese army. The Lebanese army has learnt how to stay clear and not allow itself to be politicized. Unfortunately, army leadership is still politicized and based on sectarian consideration.
    So it actually took the existence of a well organized and armed resistance to occupation movement before the US sees it fit to help our army? If our army was string enough with American support to preserve Lebanon's sovereignty, there won't have been need for people to take up arms. And if there was no Israeli occupation and sending us gifts of Palestinian refugees, we won't have had wars. But of course, the south and its safety was never the priority of the Lebanese government. It was until 2006 war before the Lebanese army mover to the border area. Was that a responsible state?

    What is blocking peace with Israel is Israel itself and its atrocities and violations of our sovereignty. It is not HA. They should take back the Palestinian refugees or repatriate them into an Arabian country. Leaving the Palestinians to remain refugees, hoping their cause will die off once the parents die, won't solve anything. The children will remain stateless and not be granted Lebanese citizenship. Israel should withdraw from remaining Lebanese territories too. Your racism comes in when you refuse to see that the Palestinian problem in Lebanon is borne out of Israeli excesses, atrocities and violations and chiefly, through the invasion and occupation of Palestine.
    1-Nobody supported the Palestinians more than the Christians
    Most of their camps were on Christians land
    We saw how they did return the favor
    2-The Lebanese Army today is led by a great General Aoun chosen by the President who is a patriot non corrupted non sectarian but you are afraid of him
    You are still plotting against the army like 1975
    3 you want what Lebanon to be under Americans sanctions and the Lebanese economy to collapse
    4 Nobody is against HA when fighting terrorism or liberating Lebanon; but the problem is when HA mission is to be an army for Iran who pay him and control him ; we want peace like all Arab countries but we want international resolutions to be applied.
    Anyway peace should be accepted by all Lebanese
     
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