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Changing the Lebanese Political System: What are the Alternatives to the Present Sectarian System

Nonan

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Fi tnen ma tarako thread without spamming with decentralization/federalism/division while this is not on the table for any party in Lebanon.
Tamno belkon this ain't gonna happen anytime soon and Christians will stay and be just fine.
In a federal state, do all MOFs also belong to the Shiites?
 

Death To Google

New Member
decentralization is different from federalism that is the opposite of division
Christians are not fine and we suffer from foreign money and demographic invasions
we are struggling to keep our land and our homes and they will use whatever they can to uproot us from this country
FACTS

I know the difference between them.
Division am against.
Decentralization I support to an extent if done with the good mentality and intentions.
Federalism I would support if Lebanon was part of Syria or something but as of now it doesnt solve any problems. And those who insessantly promote it on forum never posted any wholesome framework including borders and alloction of powers between central state and districts... nothing only slogans.
 

Mockinggbird

New Member
I know the difference between them.
Division am against.
Decentralization I support to an extent if done with the good mentality and intentions.
Federalism I would support if Lebanon was part of Syria or something but as of now it doesnt solve any problems. And those who insessantly promote it on forum never posted any wholesome framework including borders and alloction of powers between central state and districts... nothing only slogans.
In terms of borders There are a lot of posssibilities
For example if you take the current elections 15 district as a start
1-Tripoli-donniyeh, north-3, jbeil keserwan , metn, beirut-1 , beirut-2 largely remain as is with minor fine tunings maybe
2- baabda and zahleh split into 3
3- jezzine drop Rihane and receive east saida
4- Baalbek drop deir el ahmar and receive zahleh chi3a villages
5- swap between hasbaya and rachaya sunni Druze villages
6-border fine tune between aley and baabda
7-chouf coast and deir kamar enclave
8-akkar enclave
One standard can be implemented on all districts whereby there should be a minimum number of people and area to create an enclave and whereby minorities will still have the right to stay where they were born
But they should not complain they have few political rights
On a parallel level Lebanon can be split into something bigger than a municipality and smaller than a district
around 100 big municipality that have bigger rights and capabilities
The current municipalities are very small and obsolete
 

Death To Google

New Member
In terms of borders There are a lot of posssibilities
For example if you take the current elections 15 district as a start
1-Tripoli-donniyeh, north-3, jbeil keserwan , metn, beirut-1 , beirut-2 largely remain as is with minor fine tunings maybe
2- baabda and zahleh split into 3
3- jezzine drop Rihane and receive east saida
4- Baalbek drop deir el ahmar and receive zahleh chi3a villages
5- swap between hasbaya and rachaya sunni Druze villages
6-border fine tune between aley and baabda
7-chouf coast and deir kamar enclave
8-akkar enclave
One standard can be implemented on all districts whereby there should be a minimum number of people and area to create an enclave and whereby minorities will still have the right to stay where they were born
But they should not complain they have few political rights

On a parallel level Lebanon can be split into something bigger than a municipality and smaller than a district
around 100 big municipality that have bigger rights and capabilities
The current municipalities are very small and obsolete

More important than borders is allocation of power between central state and districts. Try to brainstorm a framework and you will see why it does not offer solution to any problem. National defense and foreign policy is the prerogative of central state (unless you are talking division), which means it can impose on the federations to adopt this defense strategy or foreign policy.

Also, political rights? What kind of political right are you talking about that you are okay with minorities not having?
 

Randomiser

New Member
Let me guess the Vice President is from the shia sect?

For me I rather the same setup but with a few amendments.

1) No time frame for President to sign.
2) Vice PM need signature also. So President, PM, Vice PM and MOF.
3) MOF can go to shia.

This will mean that the four largest sects in the country have veto in the executive. 2 christian and 2 muslims. I would place the only way to override the veto is getting 2/3 votes in the government.

A senate which has power to amend or send back bills to Parliament. The senate is half half christian muslim with a christian head rotation with druze. The senate also to approve or send back needs 2/3.

Then a 15 district electoral law no sect allotment.

Do you understand how a Presidential System works? President is have a vast executive powers and can override ministers if he wishes too.
In Lebanon case, President and Vice President should be different religions(Muslim/Christian) but not a specific sect.

While the President in such systems have veto powers over normal Bills which can override by 2/3 of both Parliament/Senate.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
Do you understand how a Presidential System works? President is have a vast executive powers and can override ministers if he wishes too.
In Lebanon case, President and Vice President should be different religions(Muslim/Christian) but not a specific sect.

While the President in such systems have veto powers over normal Bills which can override by 2/3 of both Parliament/Senate.

I understand how a Presidential system works. We used to have it prior to Taef and there was a PM and a Speaker. What we need is to implement the law and introduce small amendments to it so each community feels safe in the country. The shia want to have a say in the executive which I understand but we as christians want a say in the legislative. :)
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
In terms of borders There are a lot of posssibilities
For example if you take the current elections 15 district as a start
1-Tripoli-donniyeh, north-3, jbeil keserwan , metn, beirut-1 , beirut-2 largely remain as is with minor fine tunings maybe
2- baabda and zahleh split into 3
3- jezzine drop Rihane and receive east saida
4- Baalbek drop deir el ahmar and receive zahleh chi3a villages
5- swap between hasbaya and rachaya sunni Druze villages
6-border fine tune between aley and baabda
7-chouf coast and deir kamar enclave
8-akkar enclave
One standard can be implemented on all districts whereby there should be a minimum number of people and area to create an enclave and whereby minorities will still have the right to stay where they were born
But they should not complain they have few political rights
On a parallel level Lebanon can be split into something bigger than a municipality and smaller than a district
around 100 big municipality that have bigger rights and capabilities
The current municipalities are very small and obsolete

This is not about dropping and adding districts or areas. This is about the future of the christians in the country. We need to implement Taef with a senate and decentralization. Then we can see what else needs to happen and implement it. It needs to happen in PMAs term.
 

Mockinggbird

New Member
This is not about dropping and adding districts or areas. This is about the future of the christians in the country. We need to implement Taef with a senate and decentralization. Then we can see what else needs to happen and implement it. It needs to happen in PMAs term.
I don’t believe there is something called secularism in Muslim majority countries
It will not work
Never worked anywhere in the world
Check Tunisia check turkey and you will understand that secularism is a western concept created to have peace between catholic and Protestant populations
The only viable solution is federalism
Anything else is just a waste of time
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
I don’t believe there is something called secularism in Muslim majority countries
It will not work
Never worked anywhere in the world
Check Tunisia check turkey and you will understand that secularism is a western concept created to have peace between catholic and Protestant populations
The only viable solution is federalism
Anything else is just a waste of time

I tend to agree with the solution lal asaf. Without federalism or some sort of heavy decentralization the issues and problems will keep on occurring. we need a solution and fast. each electoral law district should be a province with local governments voted in by the people and they should be taking care of people's affairs and not the state. The state will be there just for defense and foreign affairs.
 

Mockinggbird

New Member
I tend to agree with the solution lal asaf. Without federalism or some sort of heavy decentralization the issues and problems will keep on occurring. we need a solution and fast. each electoral law district should be a province with local governments voted in by the people and they should be taking care of people's affairs and not the state. The state will be there just for defense and foreign affairs.
First step would be to have a territorial reform
Denmark is a brilliant example similar to Lebanon in population bit bigger in terms of land size
where they reduced the number of municipalities from over 300 to 98
In Lebanon we have more than 1200 municipalities with majority of them being very small and obsolete
We need to reduce this number to around 100
This will be the start of optimizing the structure of the state and create the required decentralization
These big municipalities can later create groupings that will be the basis of a federal Lebanese state
It’s not that complex and will require a dialogue between all Lebanese groups
 
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