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China to eradicate poverty by 2020

SAVO

SAVO

Member
No one in their right mind will defend or is defending things that the West has done wrong. This is a straw man argument.

People can criticize China without accepting the wrongdoings of the West.

You communists, on the other hand, are whitewashing the wrongdoings of the Chinese government!

Not only that, but you are creating false equivalencies by comparing the situation in China today, to things that the West has done in the past. If you compare the regime in China today, to the governments of the West today, the latter have a better record on how they treat their population. There is no arguing about this! It's a fact!

That's why you all live in the West and not in any communist country!
France italy germany and spain ( 4 biggest european countries) they had a big communist movement and they tried their way to communism..and they didnt escape to kive anywhere .. ill list u how things went :
In italy. There was the biggest comunist party in the whole west..the italiab constitution was written by communist after the defeat of fascism.and still untill today and it brought progress to italy.. where the american with the church have major influence like in south italy .the situation is a disaster .
In spain the spanish civil war aimed to abolish monarchy and establish the repubblic .. they lost abd fascisy franco win and till now they are searching for mass graves all around spain.
In germany the communist movemet gave leaders like rosa luxemburg.. and later the Ddr.. a example of socialist society..
France .. ot gave big socialist names and thinkers and till today the leftist marxist ideology still influent ..
What is left for you is the Usa model
Is that what you are going to defend?
 
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  • Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    France italy germany and spain ( 4 biggest european countries) they had a big communist movement and they tried their way to communism..and they didnt escape to kive anywhere .. ill list u how things went :
    In italy. There was the biggest comunist party in the whole west..the italiab constitution was written by communist after the defeat of fascism.and still untill today and it brought progress to italy.. where the american with the church have major influence like in south italy .the situation is a disaster .
    In spain the spanish civil war aimed to abolish monarchy and establish the repubblic .. they lost abd fascisy franco win and till now they are searching for mass graves all around spain.
    In germany the communist movemet gave leaders like rosa luxemburg.. and later the Ddr.. a example of socialist society..
    France .. ot gave big socialist names and thinkers and till today the leftist marxist ideology still influent ..
    What is left for you is the Usa model
    Is that what you are going to defend?
    Strawman after strawman. Where am I blindly defending any political model...American or otherwise?

    You are the one blindly defending communism: a system that killed tens of millions of people (more than the nazi victims)...a system that tortured and imprisoned countless innocent people in gulags and brutal labour camps...a system that ended up starving the very people it was supposed to save...a system that didn't allow people to travel, because if they did they would never come back...a system so bad people risked their lives to run away from it...a system that suppressed people's freedom of speech so it would not be overthrown...and, still, in the end people did overthrow it in disgust and couldn't wait to get rid of it!

    And now you have privileged hippies living a luxury life in the West thinking they're cool because they are communists!
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    And let's not forget that France still produces foie gras which is obtained by force-feeding geese through a metal tube, one of the cruelest practices on animals.
    Lol China outranks every single country on the planet when it comes to animal abuse they just recently legalised tiger bones and rhino horns again for "medical" use. Also ducks deserve it they're all rapists and they only perform gavage on the males so I'm good with eating rapist ducks 👀
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Lol China outranks every single country on the planet when it comes to animal abuse they just recently legalised tiger bones and rhino horns again for "medical" use. Also ducks deserve it they're all rapists and they only perform gavage on the males so I'm good with eating rapist ducks 👀
    Fois gras is cruel and should be illegal.

    But it's ridiculous to claim that France is worse than China regarding human and animal rights abuse.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    Fois gras is cruel and should be illegal.
    Every animal product you consume has been obtained through torturing an animal to some degree. Foie gras tastes excellent and I'm fine with eating it.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    Not necessarily.



    Then you are fine with animal torture as long as you benefit from it.
    Do you know why veal meat is white? It's because they take away the males from their mother and let them starve to death. Pigs and chickens are kept in disgusting conditions, I think something like 80% of pigs suffer from pneumonia upon slaughter. And even when you do buy free range thinking you're doing something nicer by encouraging that label, that usually entails letting the animals out for like 10 minutes into 4 sqm of fresh air depending on the country... Chickens get their beaks trimmed routinely as well, they also spend their entire lives living on metallic grids. Not to mention that nearly all livestock are forced to grow up at alarming rates and consuming less food than they used to. Cows as well are bred, force fed hormones for milk production, and discarded after about 6 months.

    When you start with animal cruelty it doesn't end and it gets increasingly harder to know where to draw the line. Still though nothing in the West does and will ever compare to Chinese practices and their excessive cruelty on both people and animals.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Do you know why veal meat is white? It's because they take away the males from their mother and let them starve to death. Pigs and chickens are kept in disgusting conditions, I think something like 80% of pigs suffer from pneumonia upon slaughter. And even when you do buy free range thinking you're doing something nicer by encouraging that label, that usually entails letting the animals out for like 10 minutes into 4 sqm of fresh air depending on the country... Chickens get their beaks trimmed routinely as well, they also spend their entire lives living on metallic grids. Not to mention that nearly all livestock are forced to grow up at alarming rates and consuming less food than they used to. Cows as well are bred, force fed hormones for milk production, and discarded after about 6 months.

    When you start with animal cruelty it doesn't end and it gets increasingly harder to know where to draw the line. Still though nothing in the West does and will ever compare to Chinese practices and their excessive cruelty on both people and animals.
    You can have chickens in your backyard and get eggs from them. You can even have a cow a milk it yourself if you want.

    But you can't make fois gras without torturing the animal, even if you had your own farm and controlled the whole process.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You can have chickens in your backyard and get eggs from them. You can even have a cow a milk it yourself if you want.

    But you can't make fois gras without torturing the animal, even if you had your own farm and controlled the whole process.
    Animal slaughter doesn't have to be cruel. In many countries, farmed animals are rendered unconscious before their throats are slit.

    It's Islamic halal slaughter that is cruel because the animal has it throat cut while still alive and made to bleed to death.
    (Does anything good come out of this religion?)
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Orange Room Supporter
    Animal slaughter doesn't have to be cruel. In many countries, farmed animals are rendered unconscious before their throats are slit.

    It's Islamic halal slaughter that is cruel because the animal has it throat cut while still alive and made to bleed to death.
    It's not just the way they are killed that is bad, but also the way they are made to live.

    But, theoretically...if people cared enough...they could raise animals for meat, dairy, or eggs without mistreating them.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    You can have chickens in your backyard and get eggs from them. You can even have a cow a milk it yourself if you want.

    But you can't make fois gras without torturing the animal, even if you had your own farm and controlled the whole process.
    Actually you can, they just started making it in Canada, foie gras sans gavage, Google it. My point stands though every single animal/animal product you consume, unless you yourself are a farmer and treat your animals as ethically as possible, is the result of one form of animal cruelty or another.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Fois gras is cruel and should be illegal.

    But it's ridiculous to claim that France is worse than China regarding human and animal rights abuse.

    Not really. Bullfighting, one of the cruelest forms of animal abuse, is still legal in some parts of France.
    I think most of the allegations against China are exaggerated.


    This is what the animal protection institute has to say.
    Screen Shot 2019-12-27 at 11.38.04 PM.png

     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Actually you can, they just started making it in Canada, foie gras sans gavage, Google it.
    I'd have to read more about it to know how much better this system is, but this is new so it's safe to assume the fois gras you're eating comes from tortured animals.

    My point stands though every single animal/animal product you consume, unless you yourself are a farmer and treat your animals as ethically as possible, is the result of one form of animal cruelty or another.
    My argument was about what is possible, not what's being done.

    It's possible to get meat, dairy, and eggs without mistreating animals. It is not possible to get traditionally made fois gras without torturing animals.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    I'd have to read more about it to know how much better this system is, but this is new so it's safe to assume the fois gras you're eating comes from tortured animals.



    My argument was about what is possible, not what's being done.

    It's possible to get meat, dairy, and eggs without mistreating animals. It is not possible to get traditionally made fois gras without torturing animals.
    And it's now possible to get foie gras without gavage. My argument is every single animal product you consume comes from a mistreated animal, some forms are more severe than others granted but meat tastes too good for me to be vegan, so I don't sweat it! Also as I said I reconcile eating foie gras with the fact that ducks are rapists so I don't mind their mistreatment :p
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Isabella is "gauche-foie gras". She cries animal abuse to discredit China, but defends animal cruelty if it benefits her.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    Not really. Bullfighting, one of the cruelest forms of animal abuse, is still legal in some parts of France.
    I think most of the allegations against China are exaggerated.


    This is what the animal protection institute has to say.
    View attachment 16489

    Say that to Taiwan and their enormous pigs being force fed to oblivion 🙄, or the dogs and cats being routinely massacred, or the rhino horns being harvested or the tiger bones or the turtles being hunted for their shells, etc.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    Isabella is "gauche-foie gras". She cries animal abuse to discredit China, but defends animal cruelty if it benefits her.
    I talked about animal cruelty in cosmetics and rhino horns and tiger bones. I'm not vegan so of course I'm a hypocrite when it comes to animal rights. I draw the line on what is not consumed.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Not really. Bullfighting, one of the cruelest forms of animal abuse, is still legal in some parts of France.
    I think most of the allegations against China are exaggerated.


    This is what the animal protection institute has to say.
    View attachment 16489

    Assuming these numbers were gathered adequately and that they reflect reality, you have to look at the "sanctioning" category alone. The "producing" and "consuming" categories only reflect how much animal based products are produced and consumed, not how the animals are treated or what laws are there to protect them. Under the "sanctioning" category, almost all Western countries score better than China.

    And this is without taking into account human rights abuses.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
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    Uyghurs are poor and will be eradicated by 2020!
    Those peaceful Uyghurs want to establish an Islamic republic in China.
    They can spare us their tears because no one is buying it.

    A re-education camp that frees women of the veil and forces Muslims to drink alcohol?
    Doesn't sound like torture to me.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Assuming these numbers were gathered adequately and that they reflect reality, you have to look at the "sanctioning" category alone. The "producing" and "consuming" categories only reflect how much animal based products are produced and consumed, not how the animals are treated or what laws are there to protect them. Under the "sanctioning" category, almost all Western countries score better than China.

    And this is without taking into account human rights abuses.
    China is my 2020 muse. So much to learn from this beautiful country, despite its few shortcomings.
     
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