Christian-Muslim Relations In the Middle-East

The_FPMer

The_FPMer

Active Member
I’m curious and not really debating, but why do you not find it good to say “I wish you a happy Easter” to anyone that celebrates it? Mind you there is nothing wrong to thank whomever wishes you a happy Easter and say you don’t celebrate it.
He had a traumatizing incident with a group of snarky rabbits during his childhood :p
 
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  • Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I’m curious and not really debating, but why do you not find it good to say “I wish you a happy Easter” to anyone that celebrates it? Mind you there is nothing wrong to thank whomever wishes you a happy Easter and say you don’t celebrate it.
    It has nothing to do with hatred for Christians or intolerance. For example, whatever other holidays Christians commemorate, like Palm Sunday, I don't mind wishing them or complimenting them. But in the case of Easter, it is different. Aside the fact that Easter has been reported to have pagan roots, Easter is contentious. My faith says Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. And here you have someone commemorating what he believes is the death and crucifixion of Jesus. It contradicts my faith. If I'm not compelled to wish someone "happy Easter", I'd rather not. If I feel compelled to, and I do it, it wont change my faith. But if I'm not compelled to, I'd rather ignore it. I wont give it any significance and I won't promote its commemoration. If someone wishes me, I'd ignore. If the person is a friend, I'd thank him because I believe he is wishing me out of goodwill.
     
    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    It has nothing to do with hatred for Christians or intolerance. For example, whatever other holidays Christians commemorate, like Palm Sunday, I don't mind wishing them or complimenting them. But in the case of Easter, it is different. Aside the fact that Easter has been reported to have pagan roots, Easter is contentious. My faith says Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. And here you have someone commemorating what he believes is the death and crucifixion of Jesus. It contradicts my faith. If I'm not compelled to wish someone "happy Easter", I'd rather not. If I feel compelled to, and I do it, it wont change my faith. But if I'm not compelled to, I'd rather ignore it. I wont give it any significance and I won't promote its commemoration. If someone wishes me, I'd ignore. If the person is a friend, I'd thank him because I believe he is wishing me out of goodwill.
    Thanks for replying. I guess where we differ is that I don’t think wishing anyone a happy day/celebration has anything to do with my beliefs. I say Ramadan Kareem all around even though for me it is very much divorced from my faith. It’s not an endorsement of the holiday or of the commemoration rather a well wish on someone’s happy day. Would a Lebanese “Ten3ad 3leyk” trigger a similar reaction?
     
    Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    New Member
    I have provided ample proof that the Middle East's inhabitants before Islam were majority Christian, if you refuse to accept that truth because it bothers you that's something else completely.

    "By the 7th century the majority of the population of the Middle East was Christian, and Byzantium was one of the two great powers when Muhammad was born."

    "How did the ancient Middle East transform from a majority-Christian world to the majority-Muslim world we know today"
    of what type of Christians?

    they waged wars with the crusaders. So basically sectarian war of who is the best Christian.

    the whole argument about beliefs is silly. Whether you are a Muslim, Jewish and Christian, and you are originally from those region you can trace your genetic lineage and ancestors back to 4000 years pre Abrahamic religions. Religions were created for community purposes to offer philosophy, wisdom and way of life for people who wanted to understand their world better a long time ago. So the sooner we stop comparing belief to race the better and the more tolerant we can become with one another.
     
    SAVO

    SAVO

    Member

    "By the 7th century the majority of the population of the Middle East was Christian, and Byzantium was one of the two great powers when Muhammad was born."


    "How did the ancient Middle East transform from a majority-Christian world to the majority-Muslim world we know today, and what role did violence play in this process? These questions lie at the heart of Christian Martyrs under Islam: Religious Violence and the Making of the Muslim World (Princeton University Press), a new book by associate professor of Islamic history Christian C. Sahner. In a guest post for Arts Blog, Professor Sahner, from Oxford's Faculty of Oriental Studies, explores his findings."


    "A century ago, 20% of the population in the region was Christian. Today Christians account for only about 5% and their numbers are still dwindling."
    islam back then was like the corona virus today ..exponential spread rate and high number of victims.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    It has nothing to do with hatred for Christians or intolerance. For example, whatever other holidays Christians commemorate, like Palm Sunday, I don't mind wishing them or complimenting them. But in the case of Easter, it is different. Aside the fact that Easter has been reported to have pagan roots, Easter is contentious. My faith says Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. And here you have someone commemorating what he believes is the death and crucifixion of Jesus. It contradicts my faith. If I'm not compelled to wish someone "happy Easter", I'd rather not. If I feel compelled to, and I do it, it wont change my faith. But if I'm not compelled to, I'd rather ignore it. I wont give it any significance and I won't promote its commemoration. If someone wishes me, I'd ignore. If the person is a friend, I'd thank him because I believe he is wishing me out of goodwill.

    But your faith doesn't say anything about Jesus/Yasu, only the Isa guy.
     
    Joe tayyar

    Joe tayyar

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    All
    We
    Their
    Wont find
    Those people
    Wont see
    Us

    All your posts are about us vs them.

    There are Muslims wishing Christians well on the same links you posted.

    Besides, there are people who react the same way when it is Ashura period. They post images of the 0.1% Shia who self flagellate and use that to paint Ashura. They also post offensive comments and go as far as saying Imam Hussein dont need your tears etc.

    Everyone has his own beliefs and ways and some people are intolerant and cant keep their mouth quiet.

    When it comes to Easter, it is mainly what sets Islam and Christianity apart. Different paths on the concept of salvation and Muslims believe Jesus "was neither killed nor crucified" as per the Holy Quran. Just as those Christian celebrities believe Jesus was killed and crucified, others don't believe that. Everyone is free to express himself as he likes.

    Therefore, I didn't read any threatening statements or posts on those links. All I read were statements that disagree with a certain belief. Except if you want me to read 10,000 comments to find a threatening remark. I dont have the patience of @Joe tayyar

    Personally, on Easter, I dont find it good to wish anyone. It is different on Christmas. Even though Jesus was not born on Christmas, Muslims (with the exception of Salafists/Wahhabis) also feel they can be happy and rejoice on the symbolic birthday commemoration of Jesus, who is regarded as one of the main prophets of Islam. Even when someone wish me on Easter (most times through online messages), I either ignore or I simply thank them. I dont exchange wishes.
    Patience, patience is a virtue!
    Im still on comment 2366 of maya diab profile, I still have najwa, nancy, and the rest, but damn why haifa is not included, this would have brought the attention of @Amirkani maybe we can get him back.. LoL
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    there is no way to compare the light ( soviet union) to the dark ideology of islam ...

    here for you an example :

    afghanistan before ..during communism :
    View attachment 19056

    and afghanistan now under sharia

    View attachment 19057
    You should try to be more respectful towards others so you dont invite unnecessary backlash. As much as we often agree on many issues outside ideological frameworks, you have no right to resort to name calling because you want to claim some type or form of "light".

    Your "light" (Soviet) has collapsed. In case you dont know. Long dead and buried and will never resurrect. But my backward ideology will remain until the Hereafter and there is nothing you or anyone under the face of the sun can do about it.

    I do not understand how people relate nakedness or unclothedness to "light". We must really be seeing different lights. You saw the backward "light" that has collapsed. Funny enough, "light" is used in a spiritual sense by believers in God. I don't know what level of mental fogginess is leading a communist/atheist to claim "light". Very ignorant and empty statement to make.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    islam back then was like the corona virus today ..exponential spread rate and high number of victims.
    This was exactly the case of the Soviet Union. Devouring so many nations and imposing deadly its ideology and will. How many millions did Stalin and Lenin eliminate? As much as the Sunni caliphs were oppressive, it was not during the time of the Prophet that Islam expanded outside Arabia. In the time of the Prophet no offensive battle was EVER fought. You are free to believe in whatever distorted views. The Prophet never fought any offensive battle.

    Even the claim of oppression of the Sunni caliphs by Christians in the Middle East has been exaggerated. Christians and Jews for example, were treated much better as "People of the Book" than the Shia Muslims were treated by the Sunni caliphate. They even held political offices and appointments. The survival of the Christians in the Middle East as a community is testament. On the other hand, the Shia survived as an oppressed underground minority community clinging on to taqiyyah to deny their faith and identity in order to survive.

    In some instances, the Christians even acted as henchmen of the Sunni caliphate to oppress the Shia. That was seen in Mount Lebanon. Christians conmived and cooperated with the Sunni caliphate to replace the Shia in Mount Lebanon after genocide and ethnic cleansing. Thus the oppressors appointed the same Christians as overlords in those areas after the Shia were persecuted. The same Christians who sing about forced conversions and persecution acted as henchmen to the oppressors. So let no one pretend they are the doves and others are the demons. You dont care about oppression. You only care about yourselves. You wont bother about Sunni caliphate oppression or persecution when you are not on the receiving end. It is all about selfish interests. And to paint a picture that all Christians who became Muslims were forced to convert is not a historical fact. Many Christian tribes and Jews converted wholesale to Islam in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and Egypt.

    Comparing the Soviet/Communism to Islam, in the case of Islam, nations embraced the faith/ideology long after the political control of Arabians and later the Turks had died off. They didn't leave their ideology, like the people of the former Soviet republics buried communism. You should reflect which message has impacted mankind deeper: the Quran or the Communist Manifesto. Then ask yourself why.
     
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    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Thanks for replying. I guess where we differ is that I don’t think wishing anyone a happy day/celebration has anything to do with my beliefs. I say Ramadan Kareem all around even though for me it is very much divorced from my faith. It’s not an endorsement of the holiday or of the commemoration rather a well wish on someone’s happy day. Would a Lebanese “Ten3ad 3leyk” trigger a similar reaction?
    I can wish you happy lent. The fast on lent reflects the time Jesus spent in the wilderness. I can wish a Jew happy passover. In the case of Easter, it isnt a matter of wishing you. Easter contradicts my faith. I believe Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. You believe otherwise. I'd choose another day there is no contradiction to wish you well, even if that commemoration has got nothing to do with my faith. In fact, it is because it isnt relate to my faith, that I am embracing you and wishing you. It doesnt have to be on Easter.
     
    SAVO

    SAVO

    Member
    This was exactly the case of the Soviet Union. Devouring so many nations and imposing deadly its ideology and will. How many millions did Stalin and Lenin eliminate? As much as the Sunni caliphs were oppressive, it was not during the time of the Prophet that Islam expanded outside Arabia. In the time of the Prophet no offensive battle was EVER fought. You are free to believe in whatever distorted views. The Prophet never fought any offensive battle.

    Even the claim of oppression of the Sunni caliphs by Christians in the Middle East has been exaggerated. Christians and Jews for example, were treated much better as "People of the Book" than the Shia Muslims were treated by the Sunni caliphate. They even held political offices and appointments. The survival of the Christians in the Middle East as a community is testament. On the other hand, the Shia survived as an oppressed underground minority community clinging on to taqiyyah to deny their faith and identity in order to survive.

    In some instances, the Christians even acted as henchmen of the Sunni caliphate to oppress the Shia. That was seen in Mount Lebanon. Christians conmived and cooperated with the Sunni caliphate to replace the Shia in Mount Lebanon after genocide and ethnic cleansing. Thus the oppressors appointed the same Christians as overlords in those areas after the Shia were persecuted. The same Christians who sing about forced conversions and persecution acted as henchmen to the oppressors. So let no one pretend they are the doves and others are the demons. You dont care about oppression. You only care about yourselves. You wont bother about Sunni caliphate oppression or persecution when you are not on the receiving end. It is all about selfish interests. And to paint a picture that all Christians who became Muslims were forced to convert is not a historical fact. Many Christian tribes and Jews converted wholesale to Islam in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and Egypt.

    Comparing the Soviet/Communism to Islam, in the case of Islam, nations embraced the faith/ideology long after the political control of Arabians and later the Turks had died off. They didn't leave their ideology, like the people of the former Soviet republics buried communism. You should reflect which message has impacted mankind deeper: the Quran or the Communist Manifesto. Then ask yourself why.

    muslim women used to like communists .. since comunists gave them dignity , freedom , equality and progress ..
    look how shia ideology consider them .. make a comparison ..and you will arrive :)
    now since the communism is no more widespread .. and in comunist countries they tend not to marry foreigners like in north korea,.. now muslim women are desperate to marry European to get a visa and escape from their muslim society .. thats a fact !
     
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    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    This was exactly the case of the Soviet Union. Devouring so many nations and imposing deadly its ideology and will. How many millions did Stalin and Lenin eliminate? As much as the Sunni caliphs were oppressive, it was not during the time of the Prophet that Islam expanded outside Arabia. In the time of the Prophet no offensive battle was EVER fought. You are free to believe in whatever distorted views. The Prophet never fought any offensive battle.

    Even the claim of oppression of the Sunni caliphs by Christians in the Middle East has been exaggerated. Christians and Jews for example, were treated much better as "People of the Book" than the Shia Muslims were treated by the Sunni caliphate. They even held political offices and appointments. The survival of the Christians in the Middle East as a community is testament. On the other hand, the Shia survived as an oppressed underground minority community clinging on to taqiyyah to deny their faith and identity in order to survive.

    In some instances, the Christians even acted as henchmen of the Sunni caliphate to oppress the Shia. That was seen in Mount Lebanon. Christians conmived and cooperated with the Sunni caliphate to replace the Shia in Mount Lebanon after genocide and ethnic cleansing. Thus the oppressors appointed the same Christians as overlords in those areas after the Shia were persecuted. The same Christians who sing about forced conversions and persecution acted as henchmen to the oppressors. So let no one pretend they are the doves and others are the demons. You dont care about oppression. You only care about yourselves. You wont bother about Sunni caliphate oppression or persecution when you are not on the receiving end. It is all about selfish interests. And to paint a picture that all Christians who became Muslims were forced to convert is not a historical fact. Many Christian tribes and Jews converted wholesale to Islam in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and Egypt.

    Comparing the Soviet/Communism to Islam, in the case of Islam, nations embraced the faith/ideology long after the political control of Arabians and later the Turks had died off. They didn't leave their ideology, like the people of the former Soviet republics buried communism. You should reflect which message has impacted mankind deeper: the Quran or the Communist Manifesto. Then ask yourself why.

    You gotta be delusional to think Christians were ever in position to 'oppress' Muslims in the Middle East. You wanna talk about Mount Lebanon? A region where Christians were obliged to wear only black clothes and weren't even allowed to own a horse.

    Spare me this Shia persecution bs, you guys are Muslims. Your beef with Sunnis have nothing to do with us, nor do we care about it. All we know is that Shias and Sunnis have been killing each other for a long time.

    There's been several Shia dynasties, they enforced the same Sharia law as the Sunnis. Non-Muslim were just as persecuted if not more. Just look at Iran, non-Muslims and even Sunnis are persecuted, just like non-Muslims and Shias are persecuted in Sunni countries. But again, the Shia-Sunni vendetta has nothing to do with us. All we know is that you're both Muslims and you both persecute us.


    I can wish you happy lent. The fast on lent reflects the time Jesus spent in the wilderness. I can wish a Jew happy passover. In the case of Easter, it isnt a matter of wishing you. Easter contradicts my faith. I believe Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. You believe otherwise. I'd choose another day there is no contradiction to wish you well, even if that commemoration has got nothing to do with my faith. In fact, it is because it isnt relate to my faith, that I am embracing you and wishing you. It doesnt have to be on Easter.
    Again, you don't believe in Jesus. You believe in Isa.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    muslim women used to like communists .. since comunists gave them dignity , freedom , equality and progress ..
    look how shia ideology consider them .. make a comparison ..and you will arrive :)
    now since the communism is no more widespread .. and in comunist countries they tend not to marry foreigners like in north korea,.. now muslim women are desperate to marry European to get a visa and escape from their muslim society .. thats a fact !
    I think your ignorance is costly. It is a waste of my time. The only women, perhaps who are eager to marry foreign men for visa are the ones in your family. You probably are using that to label others. You have reduced the women in your life to the position of naked barbies and that is sad. It is how short the skirt is that makes you see high long and smooth their legs are. That is repugnant.

    If you are not just an empty headed communist fanatic, you'd have known better the status of women in Shia Islam. I do not want to turn this into a detailed religious discussion. You can use google search and check available resources and make a balanced research. Both in the past and in the present women are honoured and have a similarly high status in society as men. You cant mention the Prophet Muhammad, Imam Ali and Imam Hussein without mentioning three heroines alongside them.

    You can also check the fact that most university students in Iran are females. The vice president of Iran is a woman. There has never been a US VP or a Russian VP who is female. There are Shia female engineers, pilots, and scientists.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Can we refrain from personally attacking each other? Thank you.
    I didn't attack you. I am only describing your post. And since your post lacks substance, there was no way to make a sensible reply to it than to object and describe its quality. If you need better replies, try to up your posts and make them sound more sensible.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    You gotta be delusional to think Christians were ever in position to 'oppress' Muslims in the Middle East. You wanna talk about Mount Lebanon? A region where Christians were obliged to wear only black clothes and weren't even allowed to own a horse.

    Spare me this Shia persecution bs, you guys are Muslims. Your beef with Sunnis have nothing to do with us, nor do we care about it. All we know is that Shias and Sunnis have been killing each other for a long time.

    There's been several Shia dynasties, they enforced the same Sharia law as the Sunnis. Non-Muslim were just as persecuted if not more. Just look at Iran, non-Muslims and even Sunnis are persecuted, just like non-Muslims and Shias are persecuted in Sunni countries. But again, the Shia-Sunni vendetta has nothing to do with us. All we know is that you're both Muslims and you both persecute us.
    It is better to wear black clothes than to have a black heart. You should provide references how Shia in Mount Lebanon made you wear black clothes. By the way, you are not Lebanese and that is clear through your posts and the fact you cant read or speak Lebanese Arabic. You have at least twice, asked someone to translate.
     
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