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Christian theology still fails at the Problem of Unnecessary Suffering

Orangina

Orangina

Legendary Member
Not really. Humans have a choice in how they want to react in response to outside stimuli. If you choose to think thoughts of suffering, that’s on you. But that doesn’t make it Reality.

So like I said, suffering is an illusion.
you always try to play interesting and intelligent...
 
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  • Myso

    Myso

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Not really. Humans have a choice in how they want to react in response to outside stimuli. If you choose to think thoughts of suffering, that’s on you. But that doesn’t make it Reality.

    So like I said, suffering is an illusion.
    If you have any free time on lunch, I'd like to show you how suffering isn't an illusion in my own way.

    1579115975753.png
     
    Orangina

    Orangina

    Legendary Member
    You’re looking at the picture from both an ethnocentric and emotive perspective. That doesn’t make it inherently evil.
    great, let's say that yea u r right when one believes that he is body, thoughts, emotions and is trapped in his ego and materialism than he will suffer. so basically in order for someone to stop suffering the only option is for him to stop identifying him or herself with the physical body. So again one should stop thinking and experience emptiness and be in the "here" and "now"... but this needs lot and enormous work of meditation and yoga... the majority of people cannot reach such a state while their tongue is being cut for example... Buddha maybe... Jesus on the cross maybe!
     
    NAFAR

    NAFAR

    Legendary Member
    Well the suffering is created by men and not God; one can think about 2 theories:
    Theory 1: God don't exist and men are evil by nature
    Theory 2: God exist and he is giving freedom to men to choose between right and wrong..... Christianity teaching is all about love and forgiveness but men choose otherwise.
    In both theories, it is men to be blamed for all the suffering and not Christianity or God.
     
    V

    Venomous Hummingbird II

    Guest
    Well the suffering is created by men and not God; one can think about 2 theories:
    Theory 1: God don't exist and men are evil by nature
    Theory 2: God exist and he is giving freedom to men to choose between right and wrong..... Christianity teaching is all about love and forgiveness but men choose otherwise.
    In both theories, it is men to be blamed for all the suffering and not Christianity or God.
    Nature creates suffering as well.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    As an atheist myself I am embarrassed at the remarkably shallow level of understanding of my fellow atheists.
    people come in all shapes and forms, atheists are no different. it is striking though that the arguments of the average atheist are no longer on par with what they used to be. there are many underlying causes leading to that, the advent of the internet, the change in the global culture, the consumer mentality, the trolling wave, etc...

    but that aside, there is an interesting book by C.S Lewis, the problem of pain, read it if you have some time available on your hands, in case you haven't read it already. it is quite interesting and sums up some of the cumulative historical perspectives on the issue, topped by Lewis' own perception. in particular given that Lewis is himself coming from an atheist background.
     
    V

    Venomous Hummingbird II

    Guest
    Most Christian understanding of pain basically boils down to, "God is infinitely more wiser than human beings so pain actually may not be pain you're just misunderstanding it or it may be good for you". Basically, stfu and keep praying to your imaginary being and keep tithing in Church, ahamma shi hayde.
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Most Christian understanding of pain basically boils down to, "God is infinitely more wiser than human beings so pain actually may not be pain you're just misunderstanding it or it may be good for you". Basically, stfu and keep praying to your imaginary being and keep tithing in Church, ahamma shi hayde.
    Ask yourself this: Which love is greater? Loving a creature that is beautiful, comfortable, and happy or loving one that is wretched and suffering with pain? The latter would seem to be the greater love, hence one more closely related to god's love than the former.

    Instead of asking if there is a god then why is there suffering, a more interesting question is: Since god is all powerful and infinitely good, then why doesn't that cancel out all evil in the world?

    As for your last statement about churches taking money, it is true that in several instances some men in power abused their authority and preyed on the poor. However when taken into context, in other words when compared to the church's history of being the single greatest financial contributor to charity, then the tithes would seem to be well spent.
     
    V

    Venomous Hummingbird II

    Guest
    Ask yourself this: Which love is greater? Loving a creature that is beautiful, comfortable, and happy or loving one that is wretched and suffering with pain? The latter would seem to be the greater love, hence one more closely related to god's love than the former.

    Instead of asking if there is a god then why is there suffering, a more interesting question is: Since god is all powerful and infinitely good, then why doesn't that cancel out all evil in the world?

    As for your last statement about churches taking money, it is true that in several instances some men in power abused their authority and preyed on the poor. However when taken into context, in other words when compared to the church's history of being the single greatest financial contributor to charity, then the tithes would seem to be well spent.
    First premise, who said that whatever entity is out there is capable of human emotions of love and sadness and anger? What if it's similar to AI? Second one, all religions try to assuage the confusion around the subject by creating fallacies to half-solve it. If God is all-loving and suffering is essential to human progress, then there wouldn't be earthquakes and volcano eruptions and diseases and the indomitable appetite that exists in Man to destroy and conquer. There would be a less severe and broken world.

    It is clear that human beings are feebly trying to reconcile the notion of a loving God by creating justification for the immense pain that existed since the creation of life.

    You can easily draw parallels between Lebanese politics and religion. Just read how the mentally and emotionally damaged deadbeats here on this forum write. Just read it. 3awwwwnists believe that their all-loving God 3awwwn is having sleepless nights because his beloved country is in a dreadful state. Geageaists, Amal, HA, Kataeb, FM etc. are all the same. Children with inferiority complexes that need the notion that there's a savior out there that will make it alright for them. And without him chaos will ensue. As long as he exists (i.e: "Jabal Baabda"), sorrow will be not be their fate. Without him, their identity dissipates. HE is their identity. They are what they are because of him. And everything that happens happens for a reason and only HE will make it alright.

    Just read how Uncle Dark Angel, has a self-righteous attitude and lectures us how we're uncultured swines w ma 7ada fehmen addo while he never dared to answer me how his beloved Micho sold the country to Iran, because bayno w ben 7alo ma byestarje yfakkir fiya.

    Read how lebmonage, MUST follow people who make pseudo-intellectuals look like Derrida who keep telling him that his Mama Iran will destroy the evil shaytan akbar and everything will be alright.

    Just look how LFers here pop out just to make a 3awwwn joke here and there and somehow the notion that their hakim is an overrated militia man who only succeeded at ousting Hobeika because he outnumbered him and defeating Gemayel because the latter is more retarded than a dead chipmunk, kel el 7roub li abla wala we7de msherak fiya.

    Children with inferiority complexes. They NEED this else they would be suicidal. Same with religious people. Same with ultra-atheist fanatics as well. Pain exists because life is that way. If there's a God somewhere, he's probably laughing at us at how stupid we are. Ah bas eh ba3at ebno (5eda mn hon how people percieve everything through their lenses) ta yensalab and fulfill scripture ma3 enno scripture in the old testament doesn't point to someone who will born of virgin birth and the messiah will bring peace and justice, EXACTLY NOT what happened bas keep believing la enno someday, someday, you will be happy.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    great, let's say that yea u r right when one believes that he is body, thoughts, emotions and is trapped in his ego and materialism than he will suffer. so basically in order for someone to stop suffering the only option is for him to stop identifying him or herself with the physical body.

    So again one should stop thinking and experience emptiness and be in the "here" and "now"... but this needs lot and enormous work of meditation and yoga... the majority of people cannot reach such a state while their tongue is being cut for example... Buddha maybe... Jesus on the cross maybe!
    But the overwhelming majority of people are not being nailed to crosses.

    And no, it is definitely not a case of “not thinking,” as one’s thinking ultimately defines his/her reality. Rather, it’s more of an understanding and realization that every instance of existence is a manifestation of Absolute Oneness (God). Ergo, nothing is inherently good or evil, as these are dualistic concepts, but God is One.

    For example, someone may pray to God for riches. However, that same individual may go about his days thinking (and consequently acting) in a manner where he wasn’t going to obtain a single dime.

    He gives up and blames God, when in reality it was his own opinion (general pattern of thinking) of God that manifested his failures.
     
    Totenkopf

    Totenkopf

    New Member
    So to recap this thread: Because suffering exists, God does not exist.

    Looks like our friend here only swims in shallow waters.....:drowning:

    If God is all-loving and suffering is essential to human progress, then there wouldn't be earthquakes and volcano eruptions and diseases and the indomitable appetite that exists in Man to destroy and conquer. There would be a less severe and broken world.
    Absolutely, he would have also created unicorns and care bears that shoot multi colored beams from their stomach. The clouds would be also be edible and taste like cotton candy. 👍
     
    V

    Venomous Hummingbird II

    Guest
    So to recap this thread: Because suffering exists, God does not exist.

    Looks like our friend here only swims in shallow waters.....:drowning:



    Absolutely, he would have also created unicorns and care bears that shoot multi colored beams from their stomach. The clouds would be also be edible and taste like cotton candy. 👍
    Na
     
    gilthemaster

    gilthemaster

    Well-Known Member
    Yahweh is one bad motherfucka lmao. He created billions and billions of galaxies but picked one nomadic tribe to be a "light unto the nations" and for that tribe he's prepared to cause famine and bloodshed to anyone who does them harm. Historically, the Jews were most likely not taken as slaves in Egypt, but let's say they were. There was slavery in other parts of the world as well but Big D-ck Jehov doesn't care, only for his beloved Heebs lol
    I understand u r trying to make a point but being offensive in the procress actually turns many people off from replying
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I understand u r trying to make a point but being offensive in the procress actually turns many people off from replying
    why? are you under the impression that he actually intended for this to be an objective discussion? he just wanted to insult some people. the real question that should be asked is why would anyone behave in such a way? there is no need to explain why some people feel very personally offended by Christ. these are the people you should stay away from, and teach your kids to avoid wherever they meet them.
     
    Myso

    Myso

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Ask yourself this: Which love is greater? Loving a creature that is beautiful, comfortable, and happy or loving one that is wretched and suffering with pain? The latter would seem to be the greater love, hence one more closely related to god's love than the former.

    Instead of asking if there is a god then why is there suffering, a more interesting question is: Since god is all powerful and infinitely good, then why doesn't that cancel out all evil in the world?

    As for your last statement about churches taking money, it is true that in several instances some men in power abused their authority and preyed on the poor. However when taken into context, in other words when compared to the church's history of being the single greatest financial contributor to charity, then the tithes would seem to be well spent.
    I'm not an atheist, but it is clear to me that you're an atheist with a very shallow understanding who thinks he doesn't have a very shallow understanding among atheists.

    I suggest reading and watching Dr. Arif Ahmed, a lecturer of philosophy in Cambridge, on the problem of gratuitous evil. As you have no idea what this thread is about. And considered The Book of Jobs a response to the argument, when it actually serves as an example. And then talked of eliminating all evil, missing the point as to why "gratuitous suffering" was singled out.

    Your contributions added nothing. It just showed you have a case of Dunning–Kruger like @Dark Angel. And just another toxic and empty member.
     
    Myso

    Myso

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    So to recap this thread: Because suffering exists, God does not exist.

    Looks like our friend here only swims in shallow waters.....:drowning:



    Absolutely, he would have also created unicorns and care bears that shoot multi colored beams from their stomach. The clouds would be also be edible and taste like cotton candy. 👍
    ^ Another example of someone that doesn't know how to read.
     
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