Civil Marriage in Lebanon.. first step!

Whats your view about marriage?


  • Total voters
    66
Robin Hood

Robin Hood

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
nobody wants religious marriage to be banned. But ideally, your relation with your country is through a civil law, that's how you get married in front of your COUNTRY. you can still go and have whatever religious ceremony you want afterwards.

what's the big deal, just sign a legal piece of paper to settle your situation in front of your country, then do whatever marriage that pleases u.
In Quebec, we can still do religious marriage and have it registered, no need to do two marriage ceremonies and waste time and money.
Everyone is subject to the same civil law still, but religious marriage and divorce are recognized by the Quebec government.
 
  • Advertisement
  • Astarte aka Ishtar

    Astarte aka Ishtar

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Very smart LoooL


    شو ذنب ولادكن يدفعوا تمن غلطاتكن؟
    بلكي رجعت الحرب الطائفيّة؟
    بلا الزواج المدني!!!

     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    So men are a different specie than women and they evolve separately?
    That’s not what I said. We’re talking about a specific trait in men. The “boys will be boys,” slogan that they hide behind to explain certain behaviours. It’s more a lack of will than a hormonal inevitability.

    But women also have some responsibility in this. Many still select the type of men that would have been useful in cavemen days; but, in a more egalitarian society, those types of men should be considered undesirable.

    All this talk about civil vs. religious marriage, and people being afraid for their daughters is pretty superficial. It doesn’t touch the root of the problem. I do want to see civil marriage in Lebanon, but marriage and gender relations themselves should be reassessed and redefined.

    indie is what's keeping the balance in the world. on one extreme you have mufti el sa3oudiyi, on the other you have indie.
    If pointing out hypocritical thought patterns makes me an extremist, then so be it.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    That’s not what I said. We’re talking about a specific trait in men. The “boys will be boys,” slogan that they hide behind to explain certain behaviours. It’s more a lack of will than a hormonal inevitability.

    But women also have some responsibility in this. Many still select the type of men that would have been useful in cavemen days; but, in a more egalitarian society, those types of men should be considered undesirable.

    All this talk about civil vs. religious marriage, and people being afraid for their daughters is pretty superficial. It doesn’t touch the root of the problem. I do want to see civil marriage in Lebanon, but marriage and gender relations themselves should be reassessed and redefined.



    If pointing out hypocritical thought patterns makes me an extremist, then so be it.
    Indie, you know i have a serious issue with these generalizations, but regardless, it doesn't bode well for you. when i hear a woman speak in such terms, i cannot but help wonder what kind of men did she grow up with? when you generalize in this fashion, it is indicative that the problem resides with your perception, because men, just like women, have the good and the bad. many guys out there are very decent and very good natured, in the same proportion and mix that you find decent and good natured women.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Indie, you know i have a serious issue with these generalizations, but regardless, it doesn't bode well for you. when i hear a woman speak in such terms, i cannot but help wonder what kind of men did she grow up with? when you generalize in this fashion, it is indicative that the problem resides with your perception, because men, just like women, have the good and the bad. many guys out there are very decent and very good natured, in the same proportion and mix that you find decent and good natured women.
    Speaking of generalizations…

    I never mentioned good or bad, because those are subjective terms. I mentioned desirable traits and non-desirable traits according to societal standards and expectations; and, the hypocrisy in those standards and expectations.

    That doesn’t make me a traumatized man-hater, and the debate would be more productive if we focused on points and arguments, rather than assuming things about people we know nothing about.

    A lot, if not most, over-protective fathers were once the kind of boys they want to protect their daughters from.
    Do you agree with this statement? If yes, do you agree that it's hypocritical? And that the debate about what kind of marriage best "protects" your daughters from predatory men is useless; because, the issue is not in the kind of marriage available, but in male behaviour that is largely condoned by society on the basis that it's biological and, thus, inevitable.
     
    Placebo

    Placebo

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    In Quebec, we can still do religious marriage and have it registered, no need to do two marriage ceremonies and waste time and money.
    Everyone is subject to the same civil law still, but religious marriage and divorce are recognized by the Quebec government.
    can I muslim marry 4 women in Quebec? And what about inheritance laws?

    They're simply simplifying the procedure in Quebec for the people who wish to have a religious marriage, however when it comes to legal matters, (divorce, inheritance, custody of children) I don't think it's the religious authorities that decide.
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    can I muslim marry 4 women in Quebec? And what about inheritance laws?

    They're simply simplifying the procedure in Quebec for the people who wish to have a religious marriage, however when it comes to legal matters, (divorce, inheritance, custody of children) I don't think it's the religious authorities that decide.
    Polygamy is forbidden. But a couple can choose to refer to religious authorities for marriage and divorce, and the government will recognize it. Even a couple who marries religiously can get a civil divorce here.
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    I hope you are not serious about that, this liberal attitude will lead nowhere good, unless you truly don't care about her innocence when shes 17 for example...you might not be able to prevent it but you can try your best though


    if the daughter/son would want to marry sy whom yourself would completely refuse then sth went utterly wrong between you and your daughter/son, you are not on the same page anymore...one shouldn't love by all means the son or daughter in law but at least being able to accept her/him

    parents should have the right to interfere only when it's obvious the son/daughter is making a mistake, being lied to etc...sometimes ppl are blind to things anybody else sees...anything else should come right with a proper upbringing and environment
    My daughter isn't allowed to date until she's 25 lol :p I'm going to box her up and shoot anyone who comes close :p

    It's scary if you think of it.. What if your child chooses the wrong person? Regardless of how kids are brought up, when they're young and immature they could go for things they would dismiss as they get older. Heck when we were in our teens looks were all we cared for!

    Marriage is a huge responsibility for mature adults only. 18 as a minimal age is ridiculously young.
     
    S

    Salome

    Active Member
    My daughter isn't allowed to date until she's 25 lol :p I'm going to box her up and shoot anyone who comes close :p

    It's scary if you think of it.. What if your child chooses the wrong person? Regardless of how kids are brought up, when they're young and immature they could go for things they would dismiss as they get older. Heck when we were in our teens looks were all we cared for!

    Marriage is a huge responsibility for mature adults only. 18 as a minimal age is ridiculously young.
    25?? :D let's make it 70 to be on the safe side:p...parenting is tough job indeed to keep a balance, to not to loose trust etc

    I sure will do my best to convince her that these are adult businesses thus nothing under 18...
    It happens that good girls get fooled by the bad boys so yes there's always a danger that she will make a mistake regardless of any upbringings what can you do just to hope she's actually smart enough to avoid such mistakes
     
    S

    Salome

    Active Member
    Look at what men have done to the world because they wanted to evolve from simply being animals in the jungle. But when it suits them, all of a sudden they have no control over their hormones so we should tolerate them acting like animals. Except when it comes to their daughters, of course.
    true all these wars are about hormones and who has a bigger *...but honestly I wouldn't like to live in a matriarchal society either where the ambience would be too lesbian for my taste:D maybe there should be some balance between the genders
    men know exactly from what they would like to protect their daughters since they too were once teenagers...
    in any case civil marriage does bring something useful like a brick into a strictly patriarchal society and starts cracking it up from within...many cracks and many frustration will lead to explosion one day, we don't think eventually Lebanon will be spared do we
     
    fidelio

    fidelio

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    That’s not what I said. We’re talking about a specific trait in men. The “boys will be boys,” slogan that they hide behind to explain certain behaviours. It’s more a lack of will than a hormonal inevitability.

    But women also have some responsibility in this. Many still select the type of men that would have been useful in cavemen days; but, in a more egalitarian society, those types of men should be considered undesirable.

    All this talk about civil vs. religious marriage, and people being afraid for their daughters is pretty superficial. It doesn’t touch the root of the problem. I do want to see civil marriage in Lebanon, but marriage and gender relations themselves should be reassessed and redefined.
    That may not be what you wanted to say Indie, but that certainly is what one would infer from what you wrote. You specifically tackled the issue of the evolution of a single gender. I know your intentions and where you come from and my observation was more of a nudge to point this erroneous part out.
    Of course, i do agree with what you claim about the inefficiency of solving a trivial issue such as civil marriage in front of the enormous elephant in the room that is the entire institution of marriage and its own overwhelming problems. But not to take this thread further away from its purpose, i would nod on what we agree about so far.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Speaking of generalizations…

    I never mentioned good or bad, because those are subjective terms. I mentioned desirable traits and non-desirable traits according to societal standards and expectations; and, the hypocrisy in those standards and expectations.

    That doesn’t make me a traumatized man-hater, and the debate would be more productive if we focused on points and arguments, rather than assuming things about people we know nothing about.



    Do you agree with this statement? If yes, do you agree that it's hypocritical? And that the debate about what kind of marriage best "protects" your daughters from predatory men is useless; because, the issue is not in the kind of marriage available, but in male behaviour that is largely condoned by society on the basis that it's biological and, thus, inevitable.
    no i do not agree with the statement, this is not strictly about gender, it is rather about maturity, all kids need parental guidance, young women are just as eager to be with the young guys. both parents play a protective role in the lives of their kids while they are still in their custody, mothers as much as fathers, because they relate to their own experience when they were younger, it doesn't mean they are hypocrites.

    but this is not the point, it felt as if you have a fixed idea in your mind that men are monsters who are out to get the innocent girls, some kind of creatures who cannot control their instincts. this qualifies you to being a full fledged salafist :)
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    men know exactly from what they would like to protect their daughters since they too were once teenagers...
    Exactly my point. But the answer is not to protect daughters, it's to educate sons. Less predatory men automatically insures more safety for women.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Exactly my point. But the answer is not to protect daughters, it's to educate sons. Less predatory men automatically insures more safety for women.
    yes, but how difficult will it be to educate our sons when they inherit idiocy from their mothers?
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    no i do not agree with the statement, this is not strictly about gender, it is rather about maturity, all kids need parental guidance, young women are just as eager to be with the young guys. both parents play a protective role in the lives of their kids while they are still in their custody, mothers as much as fathers, because they relate to their own experience when they were younger, it doesn't mean they are hypocrites.
    It is not simply about maturity. It is also about social conditioning. Young girls may be as eager to be with young boys as the other way around, but I can guarantee you that the reasons and motivations are very different. Society's expectations and reactions towards both are also very different.

    but this is not the point, it felt as if you have a fixed idea in your mind that men are monsters who are out to get the innocent girls, some kind of creatures who cannot control their instincts. this qualifies you to being a full fledged salafist :)
    If you carefully read my post, you will realize I said the exact opposite. I said I don’t buy it when men try to excuse their predatory behaviour by claiming it is instinctive / hormonal.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    yes, but how difficult will it be to educate our sons when they inherit idiocy from their mothers?
    Choose a mother that is not an idiot. i.e. Choose with your head. The one above your shoulders.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Choose a mother that is not an idiot. i.e. Choose with your head. The one above your shoulders.
    i will spare you my cruelty, i have already made my point, you perception of men as predators borders on a psychological disorder.
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    25?? :D let's make it 70 to be on the safe side:p...parenting is tough job indeed to keep a balance, to not to loose trust etc

    I sure will do my best to convince her that these are adult businesses thus nothing under 18...
    It happens that good girls get fooled by the bad boys so yes there's always a danger that she will make a mistake regardless of any upbringings what can you do just to hope she's actually smart enough to avoid such mistakes
    It's not about being fooled or not; it's about wanting to be with someone the parents know is not right for the child. For example, an 18 year old could fall for a good looking guy who is not right for the family she comes from. I'll elaborate more, my daughter with an atheist, or my daughter with a bad boy with bad connections, or my daughter with whatever kind of a man who doesn't measure up to our standards. Disaster... Or even my son! Sheer horror...

    Parenting is tough for sure. I believe the best way to avoid hell breaking loose is first by education and second by surrounding yourself and the kids with the right environment and the right people. You can't throw a child among a bunch of hippies and expect that child to know better. Social circles are important. No to mingling with bad company! You also need to feed that ego. Make the child think s/he's too good for anyone until they are old enough to find a good match :p
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    i will spare you my cruelty, i have already made my point, you perception of men as predators borders on a psychological disorder.
    :D

    Simply addressing my arguments would have sufficed.
     
    Top