Civil Marriage in Lebanon.. first step!

Whats your view about marriage?


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  • Xena

    Xena

    Active Member
    people should marry from their own sect, just like the orthodox law!

    what's confusing is that people who are defending the orthodox law are also defending civil marriage.... double standards or lack of consistency?... just wondering...
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    people should marry from their own sect, just like the orthodox law!

    what's confusing is that people who are defending the orthodox law are also defending civil marriage.... double standards or lack of consistency?... just wondering...
    years of having strangers select your husbands for you do that to a person :) the orthodox law is just a little lesson for the hariri brat and whoever is behind him. mind you that our first choice has always been a proportional law with Lebanon as a single district, but FM vetoed it simply because they want to continue assigning our spouses. which felt kinda like rape. once sanyoura and hariri and fatfat and al saoud realize that Lebanon is not a part of saoudi arabia just like it is neither a part or iran nor a part of the vatican, the orthodox law will no longer be needed.
     
    S

    Salome

    Active Member
    Exactly my point. But the answer is not to protect daughters, it's to educate sons. Less predatory men automatically insures more safety for women.
    i don't know, "less predatory men" will think more idealist and behave so decent that they might let their daughters end up in a hippy communa just by thinking that all other men are equally decent and overlook thus dangers....so I guess in the end men who have seen a lot they will protect their daughters better...until the patriarchal society changes


    i will spare you my cruelty, i have already made my point, you perception of men as predators borders on a psychological disorder.
    when can you generalise in ur opinion? I understand if it's true for the majority and not for the exception....if you are from the exception, a decent man with only decent intentions you shouldn't feel addressed here and get offended in name of those majority who are the opposite of you


    It's not about being fooled or not; it's about wanting to be with someone the parents know is not right for the child. For example, an 18 year old could fall for a good looking guy who is not right for the family she comes from. I'll elaborate more, my daughter with an atheist, or my daughter with a bad boy with bad connections, or my daughter with whatever kind of a man who doesn't measure up to our standards. Disaster... Or even my son! Sheer horror...

    Parenting is tough for sure. I believe the best way to avoid hell breaking loose is first by education and second by surrounding yourself and the kids with the right environment and the right people. You can't throw a child among a bunch of hippies and expect that child to know better. Social circles are important. No to mingling with bad company! You also need to feed that ego. Make the child think s/he's too good for anyone until they are old enough to find a good match :p
    sometimes environment and proper company is not enough that's why I said good girls can be fooled...obviously a bad girl will herself fool others than other way round...I don't agree with the ego part, in most societies it will cause problem for the kid and she will end up without friends...
    anyway interfering for parents into the life of their adult son/daughter is very delicate it can go wrong any time if the parents overstep their limits and might end up loosing their kid rather than changing their minds
     
    Xena

    Xena

    Active Member
    years of having strangers select your husbands for you do that to a person :) the orthodox law is just a little lesson for the hariri brat and whoever is behind him. mind you that our first choice has always been a proportional law with Lebanon as a single district, but FM vetoed it simply because they want to continue assigning our spouses. which felt kinda like rape. once sanyoura and hariri and fatfat and al saoud realize that Lebanon is not a part of saoudi arabia just like it is neither a part or iran nor a part of the vatican, the orthodox law will no longer be needed.
    pfff! d**n it! i find it so hard to contradict you :p
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    i don't know, "less predatory men" will think more idealist and behave so decent that they might let their daughters end up in a hippy communa just by thinking that all other men are equally decent and overlook thus dangers....so I guess in the end men who have seen a lot they will protect their daughters better...until the patriarchal society changes

    when can you generalise in ur opinion? I understand if it's true for the majority and not for the exception....if you are from the exception, a decent man with only decent intentions you shouldn't feel addressed here and get offended in name of those majority who are the opposite of you

    sometimes environment and proper company is not enough that's why I said good girls can be fooled...obviously a bad girl will herself fool others than other way round...I don't agree with the ego part, in most societies it will cause problem for the kid and she will end up without friends...
    anyway interfering for parents into the life of their adult son/daughter is very delicate it can go wrong any time if the parents overstep their limits and might end up loosing their kid rather than changing their minds
    there is no generalizations, human beings are the children of their own circumstances and family care, some people grow up to be decent and self respecting individuals, while others turn out to be sluts and predators and so on, mainly because they didn't have a decent parenting.

    the mother is as responsible as the father in bringing up her sons, if a mother thinks of her son as a predator that needs to be tamed, than this mother deserves to spend a few weeks in the psychiatric ward in some hospital. respect for one's self and for others is something that both daughters and sons to learn and practice.

    the job of parent is to help their kids make the right judgments, be they sons or daughters, and that's the best protection, for one cannot be holding a shotgun and guarding his kids around the clock.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    there is no generalizations, human beings are the children of their own circumstances and family care, some people grow up to be decent and self respecting individuals, while others turn out to be sluts and predators and so on, mainly because they didn't have a decent parenting.

    the mother is as responsible as the father in bringing up her sons, if a mother thinks of her son as a predator that needs to be tamed, than this mother deserves to spend a few weeks in the psychiatric ward in some hospital. respect for one's self and for others is something that both daughters and sons to learn and practice.

    the job of parent is to help their kids make the right judgments, be they sons or daughters, and that's the best protection, for one cannot be holding a shotgun and guarding his kids around the clock.
    In essence, you’re saying what I’ve been saying this whole time, just in different words. Yet, I have psychological problems? People are funny.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    i don't know, "less predatory men" will think more idealist and behave so decent that they might let their daughters end up in a hippy communa just by thinking that all other men are equally decent and overlook thus dangers....so I guess in the end men who have seen a lot they will protect their daughters better...until the patriarchal society changes
    "Less predatory" doesn't have to mean stupid or unrealistic :p

    when can you generalise in ur opinion? I understand if it's true for the majority and not for the exception....if you are from the exception, a decent man with only decent intentions you shouldn't feel addressed here and get offended in name of those majority who are the opposite of you
    I have to thank your post for this part here. It's exactly what I was thinking.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    In essence, you’re saying what I’ve been saying this whole time, just in different words. Yet, I have psychological problems? People are funny.
    absolutely not saying anything close or similar to what you are saying. if you have forgotten what you have said i will remind you, here it is in bold.

    That’s not what I said. We’re talking about a specific trait in men. The “boys will be boys,” slogan that they hide behind to explain certain behaviours. It’s more a lack of will than a hormonal inevitability.

    But women also have some responsibility in this. Many still select the type of men that would have been useful in cavemen days; but, in a more egalitarian society, those types of men should be considered undesirable.

    All this talk about civil vs. religious marriage, and people being afraid for their daughters is pretty superficial. It doesn’t touch the root of the problem. I do want to see civil marriage in Lebanon, but marriage and gender relations themselves should be reassessed and redefined.

    If pointing out hypocritical thought patterns makes me an extremist, then so be it.
    your claim that men share a specific trait is as ridiculous as someone else claiming that all women are sluts, because they have this specific trait, it is more of a slutty nature than hormones in action.
     
    Danny Z

    Danny Z

    Legendary Member
    absolutely not saying anything close or similar to what you are saying. if you have forgotten what you have said i will remind you, here it is in bold.



    your claim that men share a specific trait is as ridiculous as someone else claiming that all women are sluts, because they have this specific trait, it is more of a slutty nature than hormones in action.
    maybe she meant men with a specific trait?
     
    Astarte aka Ishtar

    Astarte aka Ishtar

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    يشهد فندق فينيسيا في هذه الأثناء أول زواج مدني في لبنان





    The wedding celebration of Khulud and Nidal in Phoenicia Hotel will be broadcasted live on New TV tonight from 8pm onwards (till about 11pm).
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    يشهد فندق فينيسيا في هذه الأثناء أول زواج مدني في لبنان





    The wedding celebration of Khulud and Nidal in Phoenicia Hotel will be broadcasted live on New TV tonight from 8pm onwards (till about 11pm).
    I'm curious in knowing, under which sigha they are marrying?
    Also, I though they are already married.
     
    loubnaniTO

    loubnaniTO

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    ندوة عن الزواج المدني لـ "الجماعة الاسلامية": لإقراره لغير المسلمين

    نظمت "الجماعة الاسلامية" في برجا ندوة، بعنوان "الزواج المدني وتضليل الرأي العام" حاضر فيها نائب رئيس جامعة طرابلس الدكتوررأفت ميقاتي، في حضور محافظ الجماعة في جبل لبنان المهندس محمد قداح ومسؤولها السياسي عمر سراج وعدد من العلماء وحشد من أهالي البلدة.
    ورأى ميقاتي "أن المستهدف الاول من قانون الأحوال الشخصية الذي يريدون أن يفرضونه هم فئة الشباب"، مؤكدا "أن الاسلام راعي لكل الحقوق والواجبات للانسان المسلم وخاصة في ما يتعلق بالعلاقات الأسرية"، داعيا "كل من طالب ويطالب باقرار هكذا قوانين احترام المسلمين وتشريعاتهم".

    وأشار ميقاتي الى ان مطالبة البعض بقانون الزواج الذي أطلق عليه "لا ديني" يعود لاسباب عديدة منها وجود مشاكل بين بعض الطوائف الاخرى ومرجعياتها سواء كانت كنسية أو دينية وهذا ما لا نراه عندنا كمسلمين، متسائلا: لماذا تريدون أن تحلوا مشكلاتكم على حسابنا؟
    وعما يحضر من فاعليات لاقامة حفلة زواج مدني في ساحة الشهداء في بيروت بتاريخ 13 نيسان المقبل، وعد ميقاتي بأنه لن يحصل، "فهم من حقهم أن يتظاهروا ويطالبوا بتنفيذ القانون لكن أن يحاولوا فرضه بالقوة علينا فهذا لن يحصل ولن يتم"
    ، مؤكداً التواصل مع نواب الأمة لرفض تشريعه، لافتاً الى عدم ممانعة المسلمين من اقرار هذا القانون لغير المسلمين.
     
    L'arbalette

    L'arbalette

    Well-Known Member
    ندوة عن الزواج المدني لـ "الجماعة الاسلامية": لإقراره لغير المسلمين

    نظمت "الجماعة الاسلامية" في برجا ندوة، بعنوان "الزواج المدني وتضليل الرأي العام" حاضر فيها نائب رئيس جامعة طرابلس الدكتوررأفت ميقاتي، في حضور محافظ الجماعة في جبل لبنان المهندس محمد قداح ومسؤولها السياسي عمر سراج وعدد من العلماء وحشد من أهالي البلدة.
    ورأى ميقاتي "أن المستهدف الاول من قانون الأحوال الشخصية الذي يريدون أن يفرضونه هم فئة الشباب"، مؤكدا "أن الاسلام راعي لكل الحقوق والواجبات للانسان المسلم وخاصة في ما يتعلق بالعلاقات الأسرية"، داعيا "كل من طالب ويطالب باقرار هكذا قوانين احترام المسلمين وتشريعاتهم".

    وأشار ميقاتي الى ان مطالبة البعض بقانون الزواج الذي أطلق عليه "لا ديني" يعود لاسباب عديدة منها وجود مشاكل بين بعض الطوائف الاخرى ومرجعياتها سواء كانت كنسية أو دينية وهذا ما لا نراه عندنا كمسلمين، متسائلا: لماذا تريدون أن تحلوا مشكلاتكم على حسابنا؟
    وعما يحضر من فاعليات لاقامة حفلة زواج مدني في ساحة الشهداء في بيروت بتاريخ 13 نيسان المقبل، وعد ميقاتي بأنه لن يحصل، "فهم من حقهم أن يتظاهروا ويطالبوا بتنفيذ القانون لكن أن يحاولوا فرضه بالقوة علينا فهذا لن يحصل ولن يتم"
    ، مؤكداً التواصل مع نواب الأمة لرفض تشريعه، لافتاً الى عدم ممانعة المسلمين من اقرار هذا القانون لغير المسلمين.
    Why not. If they want to hold their communities hostage, that should be their problems... Maybe muslims would elect better MPs next time
     
    Silence

    Silence

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Fine, a muslim who wants to marry civil will just have to do the "Shatb Qayd Ta2efi" first and he/she will be free of their control.
    Those idiots will realize later that their "official" count is shrinking like for the tens of thousands of Sunnis who made "officially" Shia for inheritance.

    On the other hand, isn't it anticonstitutional to have a civil law that apllies to some and not to the others?
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    I remember how people laughed at Ziad Baroud for going through this "useless step"
    Most of these people were here in the forum.

    It turns out that this "useless step" might be the key to enforce something as great as civil marriage in Lebanon
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Here's the thread, and some of the comments:
    http://www.oroom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38144&highlight=baroud

    I'll let you guess who said what :) (in case you don't want to go through the thread)

    A good step,yet only cosmetic.Enough BS,we need the real change.
    but then many things need to be changed too:
    1- introduction of civil marriage (under what law would 2 people with no religion marry??)
    It hurts me to see non-FPMer doing what FPMers should be doing.....
    I doubt FPM was going to do this in case the Ministry of Interior was with us, anyway that's another subject.
    cosmetics just cosmetics
    instead of taking a proper stand and arrest te thugs of sg in the lbc case and enfirce THE RULE OF LAW..
    he diverts attention
    This step will lead to other steps...
    As Tabbara said, once a big chunk of people cancel their sect, the state will be forced to recognize them and assign laws for them and so on....
    I am heavely against and I support a FULL SECTARIAN system.
    Because in the real world I can simply ask the following question:We first removed the mention from the identity card and now, from the civil status registers...Good...But Wein Bosrofa Hay?
     
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