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Cryptocurrency

Booyakasha

Well-Known Member
#1
Just started to get educated on the subject after watching Banking on Bitcoin on Netflix.
Kicked things off on Reddit a couple of hours ago.
I am 100% convinced of the potential. I am now trying to understand how to and in what to invest.

Still trying to figure out how things work and the technobabble 'forks' "alt currencies" etc.

It seems like getting a hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger is the best option for beginners, correct?
Anyone here has traded, invested in crypto?
Any tips on resources for newbies?
 
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  • Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    #2
    Just started to get educated on the subject after watching Banking on Bitcoin on Netflix.
    Kicked things off on Reddit a couple of hours ago.
    I am 100% convinced of the potential. I am now trying to understand how to and in what to invest.

    Still trying to figure out how things work and the technobabble 'forks' "alt currencies" etc.

    It seems like getting a hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger is the best option for beginners, correct?
    Anyone here has traded, invested in crypto?
    Any tips on resources for newbies?
    I remember @kalel had an old thread about bitcoins where I called them a scam way back in 2015 or 2014 ? I don't know maybe check that out
     
    #5
    Just started to get educated on the subject after watching Banking on Bitcoin on Netflix.
    Kicked things off on Reddit a couple of hours ago.
    I am 100% convinced of the potential. I am now trying to understand how to and in what to invest.

    Still trying to figure out how things work and the technobabble 'forks' "alt currencies" etc.

    It seems like getting a hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger is the best option for beginners, correct?
    Anyone here has traded, invested in crypto?
    Any tips on resources for newbies?
    how much budget do you have to invest in this project ?
     
    #7
    Bitcoin don't even dream about it.
    alternative currencies maybe a better option .. still Litecoin is also impossible for 2-3K USD
    to start minimum 10 000 K .. for Litecoin ... bitcoin for a country like Lebanon ... it will be impossible .. unless you rent an underground warehouse and you fill it with Graphic cards to mitigate the noise.
     

    Booyakasha

    Well-Known Member
    #8
    Bitcoin don't even dream about it.
    alternative currencies maybe a better option .. still Litecoin is also impossible for 2-3K USD
    to start minimum 10 000 K .. for Litecoin ... bitcoin for a country like Lebanon ... it will be impossible .. unless you rent an underground warehouse and you fill it with Graphic cards to mitigate the noise.
    Thanks. I don't live in Leb.
    I am saying 2-3k USD because I don't have much clue yet. As my risk tolerance increases the budget could increase to 10k+.
    Do you have to buy 1 full bitcoin for 5-6k or can you buy a partial amount of 1 bitcoin? for example 0.5 bitcoin?
    Could you share quickly how you got into it and what info sources you use to stay up to date?
     
    #9
    Thanks. I don't live in Leb.
    I am saying 2-3k USD because I don't have much clue yet. As my risk tolerance increases the budget could increase to 10k+.
    Do you have to buy 1 full bitcoin for 5-6k or can you buy a partial amount of 1 bitcoin? for example 0.5 bitcoin?
    Could you share quickly how you got into it and what info sources you use to stay up to date?
    where do you live and which laws apply to noise ?
     
    #11
    listen I did my extensive research on youtube and personally I found that I'm too late for bitcoin. this band wagon is only in the favor of the bulky investor.

    1 - warehouse is a must if you are thinking of making benefits out of it.
    2 - in a residential area, it won't be possible. the neighbors will complain from the noise of 10s of graphic cards
    3 - you have to make account for a huge electricity bill
    4 - maintenance cost and warehouse rent.
    5 - safety pre-caution. yes you are building a mini company however, in this company only machines work with 1-3 operators ( employees )
    6 - electric power back-up ( UPS and connections )
    7 - cooling system ... no not only computer cooling systems. Huge cooling fans.

    If you can swalow the above. I could give you some advice.
     

    joe tayyar

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #12
    You can also trade crypto on metatrader 4, I think its easier like that.

    Planing to buy litecoin and forget about it for 4-6 years. Good risk reward.
     

    kalel

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #14
    Just started to get educated on the subject after watching Banking on Bitcoin on Netflix.
    Kicked things off on Reddit a couple of hours ago.
    I am 100% convinced of the potential. I am now trying to understand how to and in what to invest.

    Still trying to figure out how things work and the technobabble 'forks' "alt currencies" etc.

    It seems like getting a hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger is the best option for beginners, correct?
    Anyone here has traded, invested in crypto?
    Any tips on resources for newbies?
    dont invest in BTC - if you havent bought BTC before this train is long gone. get other currencies. i deal only BTC, Ethereum, Dash and Litecoin.

    You dont have to get a hardware wallet. Its easy to use sure but you can also use several different multisig solutions. You can also get a Yubikey - it works like a charm or store you btc on a secure VM. Dont lose your backups - it will break your heart.

    i have done microtrading and used trading bots. If you dont have a big capital you wont earn a lot but its solid for microtrading. Now BTC is still exploding but its going to calm down at some point. its quite abnormal. Storm before the fork.

    Ping me offline if you have any inquiries. happy to help out.

    I invested recently in a few ICOs. Big return on investment but a lot of scams.
     

    Danny Z

    Legendary Member
    #15
    Cryptocurrencies that are not backed up by governments are a scam. The only reason some people make money out of them it is because of the greater fool theory. However unlike real estate or Art where the greater fool gets something out of his payment. Cryptocurrencies are empty and devoid of any comfort or emotional value which makes them even more vulnerable and have less greater fools. You might end up being the greatest fool yourself.
     

    Dirty Dragon

    Well-Known Member
    #16
    Cryptocurrencies that are not backed up by governments are a scam. The only reason some people make money out of them it is because of the greater fool theory. However unlike real estate or Art where the greater fool gets something out of his payment. Cryptocurrencies are empty and devoid of any comfort or emotional value which makes them even more vulnerable and have less greater fools. You might end up being the greatest fool yourself.
    Why is it a scam ?
    The fact that it is NOT backed up by any government or bank is one of the primary attraction of cryptocurrency concept.
     

    Danny Z

    Legendary Member
    #17
    Why is it a scam ?
    The fact that it is NOT backed up by any government or bank is one of the primary attraction of cryptocurrency concept.
    And that's exactly the stupidity about it, what`s the intrinsic value of money, what is currency, start with the basics, how money was created and how it is valued.

    That's one thing, the second thing if nobody wants to take your scam money, who do you complain to, who created it, who's responsible?
     
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    Dirty Dragon

    Well-Known Member
    #18
    And that's exactly the stupidity about it, what`s the intrinsic value of money, what is currency, start with the basics, how money was created and how it is valued.

    That's one thing, the second thing if nobody wants to take your scam money, who do you complain to, who created it, who's responsible?
    The intrinsic value of any money is willingness of others to accept it. There is no other value for paper except burning it for heat or wiping your ass with it. Fiat currency is no different in this regard.

    The only real difference between a fiat currency and a cryptocurrency is
    1. Size of the economy that trade using this currency
    2. Centralized vs decentralized nature infrastructure that supports the trading

    For #2, the advantages of cryptocurrencies over fiat currency are clear.
    For #1, yes cryptocurrences are traded in relatively small and fragile economies... but in principle nothing prevents more people from trading with it so in principle there is nothing "scam" about it.
     

    Danny Z

    Legendary Member
    #19
    The intrinsic value of any money is willingness of others to accept it. There is no other value for paper except burning it for heat or wiping your ass with it. Fiat currency is no different in this regard.
    Not true, money is a medium of exchange that facilitates trade in goods and services. People began to use their most marketable goods as media of exchange. In primitive societies they used cattle, or measures of grain, salt, or fish. In early civilizations where the division of labor. Then they moved to silver and Gold and then somebody decided to keep in a safe the gold a place for you in exchange of Fiat so he gave people papers IOUs so you can withdraw the Gold, people knowing that Gold is safe there started paying others with IOU itself. The banker realized that the Gold is never withdrawn so he wrote other IOU and started circulating them. People realized he's doing this so they rushed and wanted to claim the IOUs, to calm them he said i will not give you all your Gold everybody but I will give you small amounts every year on it you do not withdraw it right now, and this what created interest, So to sum it all the conclusion is that the universal use of paper monies today would be inconceivable without their prior use as “substitutes” for real money, such as gold and silver, for which there was a nonmonetary demand.Only when man grew accustomed to these substitutes, and governments deprived him of his freedom to employ gold and silver as media of exchange, did government tender paper emerge as the legal or “fiat money. So money is created by governments, and government garantee it against exchanged goods. If government doesn't then people will not use it and will exchange goods directly.
    Also the money's supply is controlled by central banks, inflation and monetary policy is crucial to the supply and demand of money, when people stop trusting that governments will pay them then bonds cease to exist, and governments can't take debt anymore. The money supply is a modern economy can grow or shrink based on governments issuing bonds or not and this will lead to controlling inflation, kick starting a recession, people taking on mortgages or not, it has major and crucial implication in every person's life.
    The only real difference between a fiat currency and a cryptocurrency is
    1. Size of the economy that trade using this currency
    For #1, yes cryptocurrences are traded in relatively small and fragile economies... but in principle nothing prevents more people from trading with it so in principle there is nothing "scam" about it.
    Yes the scam is that this cryptoscam has no prior “substitutes” for it, it was not purchased by money or Gold or cattle, it was created by a software in a computer, it is not pegged to a US dollar or any other currency, it fluctuates with demand and supply om the market, and is based on the greater fool theory, people buy it because other will buy it from them. Criminals like it because it has no money trail that can lead to their arrest and because there are greater fools who buy it from them after they pay drugs and weapons with it on on the dark web so they launder their crimes.
    2. Centralized vs decentralized nature infrastructure that supports the trading[

    Decentralized means nobody knows who creates and who stands behind and it is not backed by governments, it is actually
    For #2, the advantages of cryptocurrencies over fiat currency are clear.
    This is the biggest and single disadvantage of cryptoscams, anybody can just go and create another similar scam, who prevents him from doing so and decide it is is money. In fact there are already a ton of them these pyramid schemes List of cryptocurrencies - Wikipedia
    Actually the fact that you think that this is an advantage is actually what makes me think you have no idea how the economy works.
    The simple and most basic idea of centralizing the supply of money is what makes people trust money to replace goods in the first place.
     
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    Dirty Dragon

    Well-Known Member
    #20
    Not true, money is a medium of exchange that facilitates trade in goods and services. People began to use their most marketable goods as media of exchange. In primitive societies they used cattle, or measures of grain, salt, or fish. In early civilizations where the division of labor. Then they moved to silver and Gold and then somebody decided to keep in a safe the gold a place for you in exchange of Fiat so he gave people papers IOUs so you can withdraw the Gold, people knowing that Gold is safe there started paying others with IOU itself. The banker realized that the Gold is never withdrawn so he wrote other IOU and started circulating them. People realized he's doing this so they rushed and wanted to claim the IOUs, to calm them he said i will not give you all your Gold everybody but I will give you small amounts every year on it you do not withdraw it right now, and this what created interest, So to sum it all the conclusion is that the universal use of paper monies today would be inconceivable without their prior use as “substitutes” for real money, such as gold and silver, for which there was a nonmonetary demand.Only when man grew accustomed to these substitutes, and governments deprived him of his freedom to employ gold and silver as media of exchange, did government tender paper emerge as the legal or “fiat money. So money is created by governments, and government garantee it against exchanged goods.
    Thank you for the mini lecture, it might be useful for some to read but for most part this is common knowledge.

    If government doesn't then people will not use it and will exchange goods directly.
    Not true. It is not practical to barter with goods directly, and people will always find a way to make their lives easier. Government mandate is not required for that, but it does help. Government is a form of social contract in the first place, not so different than a social contract where everyone agrees to use a cryptocurrency as an exchange for example. Some might not accept it just like some evades taxes or break laws (act outside the government social contract), but overall it works.

    Besides, a government can make a cryptocurrency legal tender... nothing stops that in theory. A central regulation authority is not required for that.

    Also the money's supply is controlled by central banks, inflation and monetary policy is crucial to the supply and demand of money, when people stop trusting that governments will pay them then bonds cease to exist, and governments can't take debt anymore. The money supply is a modern economy can grow or shrink based on governments issuing bonds or not and this will lead to controlling inflation, kick starting a recession, people taking on mortgages or not, it has major and crucial implication in every person's life.
    And that is a lot of power to place in a central authority don't you think ?
    Power that can be and is abused to rob entire masses of people in the extreme cases.

    Yes the scam is that this cryptoscam has no prior “substitutes” for it, it was not purchased by money or Gold or cattle, it was created by a software in a computer, it is not pegged to a US dollar or any other currency, it fluctuates with demand and supply om the market
    The US dollar itself isn't pegged to anything and fluctuates by supply and demand. Is it scam? If answer is no because it has a "prior substitute" , then consider the goods traded by whoever is willing to accept a cryptocurrency as a "prior substitute".

    ... and is based on the greater fool theory, people buy it because other will buy it from them.
    There are speculators in every domain who want to make a profit, like @Booyakasha :D. Because some speculate on foreign currency exchange or even something as directly useful as crude oil, it means we should not do/use it and it is a scam ?

    Criminals like it because it has no money trail that can lead to their arrest and because there are greater fools who buy it from them after they pay drugs and weapons with it on on the dark web so they launder their crimes.
    No money trail is a good thing. As if we are lacking more invasions of privacy. I'd rather deal with petty criminals than Orwellian governments.

    This is the biggest and single disadvantage of cryptoscams, anybody can just go and create another similar scam, who prevents him from doing so and decide it is is money. In fact there are already a ton of them these pyramid schemes List of cryptocurrencies - Wikipedia
    Calling these "pyramid schemes" is factually incorrect. Perhaps you meant "speculaton bubbles" or something like that. Yes maybe... again there is speculation bubbles in any domain... it might be high for cryptocurrencies right now doesn't mean the advantages of the concept are negated.

    The simple and most basic idea of centralizing the supply of money is what makes people trust money to replace goods in the first place.
    Not true. Centralization is not required for peer to peer trust. How does torrent technology works, why would someone host a torrent if they are not confident someone else will host another torrent they want? A peer to peer trust network backed by a robust system is enough for people to trust a currency.

    In my opinion if any cryptocurrency reaches a critical mass in terms of number of users/size of trade, it will pose a very serious threat to all of today fiat currencies.

    TL;DR Any money is only as useful/safe/"legit" as how many are willing to accept it in exchange for goods and services. And now that a decentralized architecture for transactions is invented, the only difference (other than centralization) is how many are willing to accept it as a currency.
     
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