Cryptocurrency

[transformers]

Cryptocurrencies that are not backed up by governments are a scam. The only reason some people make money out of them it is because of the greater fool theory. However unlike real estate or Art where the greater fool gets something out of his payment. Cryptocurrencies are empty and devoid of any comfort or emotional value which makes them even more vulnerable and have less greater fools. You might end up being the greatest fool yourself.

That is entirely not true. Crypto currencies are not a fraud in general. scam exists in everyday life. spotting scam in the virtual world is easier and faster. hacking and stealing crypto currency is a different issue altogether.

Crypto currency cannot and will not replace real world currencies because the relation between them is mutual.
crypto currency is not without back-up. If you watch a lot of youtube videos from channels of extreme crypto miners .. you will conclude that as long as silicon valley and china's manufacturing empire exists and energy is available. crypto currency will survive. when you are buying computers and graphic cards and upgrading them continiously to stay in the game .. you are spending real money and good deal of real money. not to forget electricity bills.

what more currency back-up do you need? for example bitcoin: as the encrypted formula becomes more complex and big. it needs more processing power to decrypt it. it is a never ending circle. a life by itself.

 

[Dirty Dragon]

That is entirely not true. Crypto currencies are not a fraud in general. scam exists in everyday life. spotting scam in the virtual world is easier and faster. hacking and stealing crypto currency is a different issue altogether.

Crypto currency cannot and will not replace real world currencies because the relation between them is mutual.
crypto currency is not without back-up. If you watch a lot of youtube videos from channels of extreme crypto miners .. you will conclude that as long as silicon valley and china's manufacturing empire exists and energy is available. crypto currency will survive. when you are buying computers and graphic cards and upgrading them continiously to stay in the game .. you are spending real money and good deal of real money. not to forget electricity bills.

what more currency back-up do you need? for example bitcoin: as the encrypted formula becomes more complex and big. it needs more processing power to decrypt it. it is a never ending circle. a life by itself.

What if the hardware company decides to start accepting bitcoin for the hardware ?

 

[Danny Z]

what more currency back-up do you need? for example bitcoin: as the encrypted formula becomes more complex and big. it needs more processing power to decrypt it. it is a never ending circle. a life by itself.

Go take a couple of classes of macroeconomy. money and banking. Formulas, encryption and complexity is engineering, it has nothing to do with the reason money was created and the fundamentals of the value of money, and spending computer cards and electricity is actually a reason why this currency should even be negative rather because it costs money to maintain. Kill wa7ad byeji 3abelou yefta7 currency creates a formula and servers out of thin air and decides we can exchange this air for goods. If governments don't back up a cryptocurrency then it is a scam. Shou hall habal hayda, wake up.

 

[Dirty Dragon]

Go take a couple of classes of macroeconomy. money and banking. Formulas, encryption and complexity is engineering, it has nothing to do with the reason money was created and the fundamentals of the value of money, and spending computer cards and electricity is actually a reason why this currency should even be negative rather because it costs money to maintain. Kill wa7ad byeji 3abelou yefta7 currency creates a formula and servers out of thin air and decides we can exchange this air for goods. If governments don't back up a cryptocurrency then it is a scam. Shou hall habal hayda, wake up.

I've taken a couple of economy classes, does this qualify me? Ba3dein will give you a pro tip, engineers are better economists than economists

You are comparing the technology side of crypto to the economic fundamentals. If you wanna compare "formulas, encryption and complexity" used to build the infrastructure... you should compare it to money mints, ATM machines, etc (the infrastructure of fiat currency).... Do you think those cost any less resources to build and maintain? Here is something to think about... do you know that one cent coin costs more than one cent to produce ?

Government backing is important of course, but you are missing the point. This is a historic invention that is still very new. The financial institutions, and what universities teach on economics/banking etc... its 100s of years old... it won't change overnight. What you are not understanding that in no time in human history was it even possible to have distributed infrastructure for processing transactions... the major breakthrough is not "bitcoin" or any cryptocurrency in particular, it is the idea. This is a seed that has only recently been planted and it might take decades for the tree to grow fully.

 

[transformers]

Go take a couple of classes of macroeconomy. money and banking. Formulas, encryption and complexity is engineering, it has nothing to do with the reason money was created and the fundamentals of the value of money, and spending computer cards and electricity is actually a reason why this currency should even be negative rather because it costs money to maintain. Kill wa7ad byeji 3abelou yefta7 currency creates a formula and servers out of thin air and decides we can exchange this air for goods. If governments don't back up a cryptocurrency then it is a scam. Shou hall habal hayda, wake up.

ma that's the big problem 3azizi Danny. If you read my entire post .. you would understand that crypto currency is based on engineering ... the sole purpose of its popularity because it opened a whole new market for technology products. Before you would buy 3 graphic cards to run Crysis. Now you're buying a 100 graphic cards to decrypt a complex algorithm and be awarded with bitcoins.

The virtual currency was a Japanese programmer idea .. however turning into a profitable business was the evil idea of Silicon Valley. this currency isn't without a back-up !! it's driving an entire market of computer manufacturers. NVIDIA AMD INTEL MSI ASUS SAMSUNG THERMALTAKE MICROSOFT etc ..

 

[transformers]

What if the hardware company decides to start accepting bitcoin for the hardware ?

Tabi3eh jeddan !! no matter how much bitcoin you mine .. it won't be enough to upgrade your systems without extra real money. they already made tons of millions from the first wave .. wlak even from the thrid and fourth waves of buyers and the algorithm keep complexing the encryption. for example: Booyakasha ba3do jdeed .. el 7aboub ma ma3o bitcoins .. baddo eytek 10 000 $ lay fout bel litecoin. Bitcoin insa ya baba 100 000 $ or more is needed. and Graphic cards might fail due to overheat with time. sometimes from a human error. as most set-ups are not protected for cooling purposes.
imagine int mabsout bel set-up taba3ak wou faj2a sa7bak za7atit tanket el bira min 2eedo .. ya3tik el VGA ... ..besides if you pay in bitcoins. you lose bitcoins. you lose bitcoins you have less bitcoins. someone else takes your place.

 

[Danny Z]

ma that's the big problem 3azizi Danny. If you read my entire post .. you would understand that crypto currency is based on engineering ... the sole purpose of its popularity because it opened a whole new market for technology products. Before you would buy 3 graphic cards to run Crysis. Now you're buying a 100 graphic cards to decrypt a complex algorithm and be awarded with bitcoins.

The virtual currency was a Japanese programmer idea .. however turning into a profitable business was the evil idea of Silicon Valley. this currency isn't without a back-up !! it's driving an entire market of computer manufacturers. NVIDIA AMD INTEL MSI ASUS SAMSUNG THERMALTAKE MICROSOFT etc ..

All this post has nothing to do with the economy, I am not discussing the technical part of how it works or what it needs to work etc. I am talking currency, i.e. money and banking, once you stop talking and NVIDIA cards and Crysis, maybe we can have a discussion.

 

[Danny Z]

I've taken a couple of economy classes, does this qualify me? Ba3dein will give you a pro tip, engineers are better economists than economists

You are comparing the technology side of crypto to the economic fundamentals. If you wanna compare "formulas, encryption and complexity" used to build the infrastructure... you should compare it to money mints, ATM machines, etc (the infrastructure of fiat currency).... Do you think those cost any less resources to build and maintain? Here is something to think about... do you know that one cent coin costs more than one cent to produce ?

Government backing is important of course, but you are missing the point. This is a historic invention that is still very new. The financial institutions, and what universities teach on economics/banking etc... its 100s of years old... it won't change overnight. What you are not understanding that in no time in human history was it even possible to have distributed infrastructure for processing transactions... the major breakthrough is not "bitcoin" or any cryptocurrency in particular, it is the idea. This is a seed that has only recently been planted and it might take decades for the tree to grow fully.

The idea could be a breakthrough, but it is inapplicable, the fact that the infrastructure doesn't have and underlying trust behind it, no government backing it, and people left and right inventing currencies is that makes it not feasible. What schools teach you is what the world is and it took centuries to develop into the economy of today. Currency has value because it is a substitute for something, Currency was backed by Gold until Nixon removed the Gold backing as the USD became accepted by all other countries knowing that the world uses this currency to trade even outside the US, the underlying substitute is the trust that people accept the USD and the only reason they do is because the US is a huge economy and because the US honors the bonds they issued. Bitcoin or Ethereum only work in the black underground web because transactions cannot be traced and criminals can launder money with it selling it on the open market and because bigger fools buy it, the underlying substitute is drugs and illegal guns.

 

[Dirty Dragon]

Tabi3eh jeddan !! no matter how much bitcoin you mine .. it won't be enough to upgrade your systems without extra real money. they already made tons of millions from the first wave .. wlak even from the thrid and fourth waves of buyers and the algorithm keep complexing the encryption. for example: Booyakasha ba3do jdeed .. el 7aboub ma ma3o bitcoins .. baddo eytek 10 000 $ lay fout bel litecoin. Bitcoin insa ya baba 100 000 $ or more is needed. and Graphic cards might fail due to overheat with time. sometimes from a human error. as most set-ups are not protected for cooling purposes.
imagine int mabsout bel set-up taba3ak wou faj2a sa7bak za7atit tanket el bira min 2eedo .. ya3tik el VGA ... ..besides if you pay in bitcoins. you lose bitcoins. you lose bitcoins you have less bitcoins. someone else takes your place.

Not sure what your exact point is.

That bitcoin is a bad investment? Never claimed it was a good investment. Aslan the first implementation of any novel idea is almost never the one that succeeds... facebooks is not the first social media, youtube not the first video streaming, tinder not the first dating app... The mass successful product usually takes a novel idea that is already been tested and proven to work and improves it, learning the right lessons.

Or are you trying to say that cryptocurrency in general (the idea of a decentralized infrastructure) will never replace fiat money (central banks), and the hype is some marketing strategy to create demand for computer hardware ? If this is what you mean, I disagree.

 

[transformers]

Not sure what your exact point is.

That bitcoin is a bad investment? Never claimed it was a good investment. Aslan the first implementation of any novel idea is almost never the one that succeeds... facebooks is not the first social media, youtube not the first video streaming, tinder not the first dating app... The mass successful product usually takes a novel idea that is already been tested and proven to work and improves it, learning the right lessons.

Or are you trying to say that cryptocurrency in general (the idea of a decentralized infrastructure) will never replace fiat money (central banks), and the hype is some marketing strategy to create demand for computer hardware ? If this is what you mean, I disagree.

I didn't say it was a hype. a hype is temporary. you're confusing me with Danny Z. I describe Crypto currency as it is no more no less. and crypto currency will never replace money or at Gold reserves. the Japanese creator of crypto currency created it as a mean of transferring money securly around the world without a lot of complications. Silicon valley saw an opportunity to make money out of it. I'm not saying it is a bad investment .. it is not for everyone. you see bitcoin is now impossible for a lot of people. the amount of investment to harvest bitcoin is huge !! .. @Booyakasha wanted to invest with 3000 dollars it is an investment without a big turn over in percentage. it's reliability depends on a lot of factors like any other Data business.

Imagine a civil war rose in the united states for example ... what will happen to many technological infrastructures and online businesses ? a country like Lebanon for example isn't a good ground for a bitcoin adventure. don't you agree ?

 

[transformers]

All this post has nothing to do with the economy, I am not discussing the technical part of how it works or what it needs to work etc. I am talking currency, i.e. money and banking, once you stop talking and NVIDIA cards and Crysis, maybe we can have a discussion.

the thread is about crypto currency investment. not about if cryptocurrency will replace fiat money or not !! such discussion belongs to a different thread !! and it is between you and dirty dragon ... so take your khaleesy and **** her under a tent not in public mr. kahl Danny

 

[Dirty Dragon]

I didn't say it was a hype. a hype is temporary. you're confusing me with Danny Z. I describe Crypto currency as it is no more no less. and crypto currency will never replace money or at Gold reserves. the Japanese creator of crypto currency created it as a mean of transferring money securly around the world without a lot of complications. Silicon valley saw an opportunity to make money out of it. I'm not saying it is a bad investment .. it is not for everyone. you see bitcoin is now impossible for a lot of people. the amount of investment to harvest bitcoin is huge !! .. @Booyakasha wanted to invest with 3000 dollars it is an investment without a big turn over in percentage. it's reliability depends on a lot of factors like any other Data business.

Imagine a civil war rose in the united states for example ... what will happen to many technological infrastructures and online businesses ? a country like Lebanon for example isn't a good ground for a bitcoin adventure. don't you agree ?

You raise valid points, and trust me one can think of many problems and obstacles for widespread use of cryptocurrency (one of which you mentioned, is that it depends on an existing centralized industries). Am not discussing this from perspective of an investor or speculator at all, am discussing how the concept has the potential to evolve and change social power structures. Nothing to do with investment and profit !

There is a FAT middle man called banks and financial institutions. There is distrust of this middle man, and of governments globally not only in conspiracy minded Middle East... there is a global THIRST from populations to cut the wings of this middle man. The cryptocurrency concept gives the tools to cut the wings of this middle man. Right now is still in "horizontal expansion" stage... people are wrapping their heads around it, thinking of ways to make it better or more scalable and overcome potential obstacles. Next will come "vertical expansion", where the issue will become political. It will take time, turmoil, and possibly even blood before meaningful changes happen.

Can you give a justification why in theory central banks will never be replaced ? What prevents that in principle ?

 

[transformers]

You raise valid points, and trust me one can think of many problems and obstacles for widespread use of cryptocurrency (one of which you mentioned, is that it depends on an existing centralized industries). Am not discussing this from perspective of an investor or speculator at all, am discussing how the concept has the potential to evolve and change social power structures. Nothing to do with investment and profit !

There is a FAT middle man called banks and financial institutions. There is distrust of this middle man, and of governments globally not only in conspiracy minded Middle East... there is a global THIRST from populations to cut the wings of this middle man. The cryptocurrency concept gives the tools to cut the wings of this middle man. Right now is still in "horizontal expansion" stage... people are wrapping their heads around it, thinking of ways to make it better or more scalable and overcome potential obstacles. Next will come "vertical expansion", where the issue will become political. It will take time, turmoil, and possibly even blood before meaningful changes happen.

Can you give a justification why in theory central banks will never be replaced ? What prevents that in principle ?

in the case of a disaster. paper money is lighter to carry versus hardware data centers

 

[Dirty Dragon]

in the case of a disaster. paper money is lighter to carry versus hardware data centers

Are you serious ?

 

[transformers]

Are you serious ?

how do you transfer your bitcoin set-up (mine) in case of a disaster ?

 

[Dirty Dragon]

how do you transfer your bitcoin set-up (mine) in case of a disaster ?

There is a lot to be said about this, so here is a brief bullet list:

- Disaster is a threat to the entire global integrated economy, this is not a cryptocurrency specific issue. The $$ included, it will collapse and be as good as nothing in that case.
- A mining node is the equivalent of a bank branch, not a wallet. Not everyone needs one, it is not for everyone, and you can't transfer banks and related infrastructures either.
- Big data centers are more efficient but not necessary, distributed computing is a thing. There is already malware in operation that siphon computing power from a farm of infected personal computer and mobile devices (or even websites that run it in the browser when you visit them) to mine bitcoins specifically, or for other reasons.

 

[transformers]

There is a lot to be said about this, so here is a brief bullet list:
- Disaster is a threat to the entire global integrated economy, this is not a cryptocurrency specific issue. The $$ included, it will collapse and be as good as nothing in that case.

hayda el 2e3sar elli darab el shaytan el akbar is an example of the disaster I'm speaking about. again you are talking about the general idea. I'm talking about the example of a simple invenstor .. ma3o hal 25000 dollars or so .. emballash wou mabsout fiyoun. wou faj2a kherbet el deneh. shu bya3mel ? in the case of paper money. he can put them in his pocket and flee.

- A mining node is the equivalent of a bank branch, not a wallet. Not everyone needs one, it is not for everyone, and you can't transfer banks and related infrastructures either.

a mining node is a mine that has become so huge ( it's real money investment is so huge that it can be trusted as a node ) ... ya3neh sa7bo is guaranteed to be rich enough to correct any down time as quick as possible.
and he happen to live in a stable enough 1st world country.

- Big data centers are more efficient but not necessary, distributed computing is a thing. There is already malware in operation that siphon computing power from a farm of infected personal computer and mobile devices (or even websites that run it in the browser when you visit them) to mine bitcoins specifically, or for other reasons.

This is a scam operation that doesn't always work. only in case of an 0-day vulnerability and a massive distributed attack on a target where this vulnerability is still available. this example of yours is another reason why real money cannot be disposed of in favor of crypto currency

 

[Dirty Dragon]

hayda el 2e3sar elli darab el shaytan el akbar is an example of the disaster I'm speaking about. again you are talking about the general idea. I'm talking about the example of a simple invenstor .. ma3o hal 25000 dollars or so .. emballash wou mabsout fiyoun. wou faj2a kherbet el deneh. shu bya3mel ? in the case of paper money. he can put them in his pocket and flee.

Yes am talking about the general idea, not an example of simple investor.

a mining node is a mine that has become so huge ( it's real money investment is so huge that it can be trusted as a node ) ... ya3neh sa7bo is guaranteed to be rich enough to correct any down time as quick as possible.
and he happen to live in a stable enough 1st world country.

Tayib... and if you want to open a bank branch and be part of the current financial architecture... how rich do you need to be?
The barrier to entry is much lower for crypto. This is the main point.

This is a scam operation that doesn't always work. only in case of an 0-day vulnerability and a massive distributed attack on a target where this vulnerability is still available. this example of yours is another reason why real money cannot be disposed of in favor of crypto currency

I ask you to transform your perspective a little bit. I used malware as an example of distributed computing. Lets use some imagination and imagine that in year 2100, every person smartphone has an extra chip for mining by default. Hek instead of having 100,000 big data centers, you have a few billion small ones. Get my point ?

 

[transformers]

la2 I didn't get your point because you are eliminating many physical limitations such as heat !! for example as a result of mining operation in favor to win an argument of a ethopian far away future. imagine your testicles turning into barbecue while your phone mining inside your pocket and worse if you have more than one phone with you .. or even your hand being fried. or how long will your battery last ? or even your phone before it blows

 

[transformers]

Just started to get educated on the subject after watching Banking on Bitcoin on Netflix.
Kicked things off on Reddit a couple of hours ago.
I am 100% convinced of the potential. I am now trying to understand how to and in what to invest.

Still trying to figure out how things work and the technobabble 'forks' "alt currencies" etc.

It seems like getting a hardware wallet like Trezor or Ledger is the best option for beginners, correct?
Anyone here has traded, invested in crypto?
Any tips on resources for newbies?

@Dirty Dragon this was the OP of the thread not your general idea ... open a different thread and make love with your Kahl @Danny Z about Fiat vs Crypto .. real vs virtual money. I'm not a business person. I'm a tech person.