Cultural Muslims in Lebanon?

Ice Tea

Ice Tea

Active Member
"Cultural Muslims are religiously unobservant, secular or irreligious individuals who still identify with the Muslim culture or the religion due to family background, personal experiences, or the social and cultural environment in which they grew up."


Imo, Beiruti Sunnis tend to be secular and I would classify many as 'cultural Muslims'. They tend to be educated and 'Christian-like' in behaviour, probably because they are mostly middle or upper class. The rest of Sunnis, notably in Tripoli/Akkar and Sidon, are completely the opposite tho, to the point that Christians no longer feel safe and avoid going there at all costs.

When it comes to Shias, I've yet to see a secular one, even the younger generation. People say in the past they used to be more secular, but nowadays they are all Hezbollah extremists. Maybe the fact they are the poorest and least educated group plays a role.

Now, I don't consider Alawites or Druze to be
Muslims, but imo they are mostly secular with many even being irreligious. What do you think?
 
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  • AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    I think the number of "cultural Shiites" is misrepresented.
    I was born into a God-fearing yet irreligious Shiite family and certainly don't identify with Shia Islam, neither culturally or religiously.
    Also, I dislike Hizbullah and I'm an anti-Islam activist.

    I know many "Shiites" like me.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    "When it comes to mosque attendance about 1% of the Muslims in Azerbaijan, 5% in Albania, 9% in Uzbekistan, 10% in Kazakhstan, 19% in Russia, and 22% in Kosovo attend mosque once a week or more. According to a Pew Research Center study, only 15% of the Muslims in Albania and 18% of the Muslims in Kazakhstan said that religion was very important in their lives. The same study found that only 2% of Muslims in Kazakhstan, 4% in Albania, 10% in Kosovo, 14% in Bosnia and Herzegovina, 14% in Kyrgyzstan, 16% in Uzbekistan, and 21% in Azerbaijan perform all five prayers a day. Furthermore, according to a 2016 Pew Research Center Report, only 7% to 13% of all Turks think that religion should affect laws directly or indirectly."


    Interestingly enough, Albania and Azerbaijan, are two Muslim-majority countries that are also considered among the least religious countries in the world. Both are former communist countries in which religion was suppressed. Albania was also self-declared the first atheist country in the world, they replaced religion with nationalism, Albanians now say that the religion of Albania is 'Albanism'.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    "When it comes to mosque attendance about 1% of the Muslims in Azerbaijan, 5% in Albania, 9% in Uzbekistan, 10% in Kazakhstan, 19% in Russia, and 22% in Kosovo attend mosque once a week or more. According to a Pew Research Center study, only 15% of the Muslims in Albania and 18% of the Muslims in Kazakhstan said that religion was very important in their lives. The same study found that only 2% of Muslims in Kazakhstan, 4% in Albania, 10% in Kosovo, 14% in Bosnia and Herzegovina, 14% in Kyrgyzstan, 16% in Uzbekistan, and 21% in Azerbaijan perform all five prayers a day. Furthermore, according to a 2016 Pew Research Center Report, only 7% to 13% of all Turks think that religion should affect laws directly or indirectly."


    Interestingly enough, Albania and Azerbaijan, are two Muslim-majority countries that are also considered among the least religious countries in the world. Both are former communist countries in which religion was suppressed. Albania was also self-declared the first atheist country in the world, they replaced religion with nationalism, Albanians now say that the religion of Albania is 'Albanism'.
    When mosque attendance goes down to 0%, you can expect the Arab world to prosper!
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    "Cultural Muslims are religiously unobservant, secular or irreligious individuals who still identify with the Muslim culture or the religion due to family background, personal experiences, or the social and cultural environment in which they grew up."


    Imo, Beiruti Sunnis tend to be secular and I would classify many as 'cultural Muslims'. They tend to be educated and 'Christian-like' in behaviour, probably because they are mostly middle or upper class. The rest of Sunnis, notably in Tripoli/Akkar and Sidon, are completely the opposite tho, to the point that Christians no longer feel safe and avoid going there at all costs.

    When it comes to Shias, I've yet to see a secular one, even the younger generation. People say in the past they used to be more secular, but nowadays they are all Hezbollah extremists. Maybe the fact they are the poorest and least educated group plays a role.

    Now, I don't consider Alawites or Druze to be
    Muslims, but imo they are mostly secular with many even being irreligious. What do you think?
    I've met young Beiruti Sunnis who are religious and young Beiruti Shia who are not.

    But after my experiences with some Muslims, both on and off the forum, Sunni and Shia, I wouldn't automatically trust a Muslim who claims to be secular...they can suddenly shift and say the most outrageous, sectarian, and hateful things. I only trust secular claims from Muslims I am friends with and have known for years.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    I've met young Beiruti Sunnis who are religious and young Beiruti Shia who are not.

    But after my experiences with some Muslims, both on and off the forum, Sunni and Shia, I wouldn't automatically trust a Muslim who claims to be secular...they can suddenly shift and say the most outrageous, sectarian, and hateful things. I only trust secular claims from Muslims I am friends with and have known for years.

    Tbh I only truly trust gay ex-Muslims like @manifesto . Even if he says some sectarian and pro-Muslim stuff from time to time, he's just trolling.
     
    Xynus87

    Xynus87

    New Member
    What do you mean educated and "Christian-like"? This statement is obviously subjective and biased and you may be yourself Christian. Lebanon was supposed to be the safe-haven of the Christians and so all other minorities were neglected. During the Ottoman-era, Maronites and other catholics were historically protected by the French, Orthodox sects were protected by Russia, the English protected the Druze emirs and the Sunnis were themselves protected by the Ottomans who were sunnis too. Shiites were neglected and remained unprotected for quite a long time, Safavids (probably the only Shiites) were at war with the Ottomans. So it makes sense they were the poorest and least educated. However things are obviously changing due to better lifestyle.
     
    D

    Deleted member 73465

    Guest
    "Cultural Muslims are religiously unobservant, secular or irreligious individuals who still identify with the Muslim culture or the religion due to family background, personal experiences, or the social and cultural environment in which they grew up."


    Imo, Beiruti Sunnis tend to be secular and I would classify many as 'cultural Muslims'. They tend to be educated and 'Christian-like' in behaviour, probably because they are mostly middle or upper class. The rest of Sunnis, notably in Tripoli/Akkar and Sidon, are completely the opposite tho, to the point that Christians no longer feel safe and avoid going there at all costs.

    When it comes to Shias, I've yet to see a secular one, even the younger generation. People say in the past they used to be more secular, but nowadays they are all Hezbollah extremists. Maybe the fact they are the poorest and least educated group plays a role.

    Now, I don't consider Alawites or Druze to be
    Muslims, but imo they are mostly secular with many even being irreligious. What do you think?
    I agree and have friends from the Beirut Sunnis and can confirm they are secular (or at least pretend to be)
    I don’t agree with u that Shiites are less educated. That may be the case before in the 80s but nowadays just scan who’s entering the medical schools. Lots of money in their pockets
     
    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Well-Known Member
    ... Shiites were neglected and remained unprotected for quite a long time.... So it makes sense they were the poorest and least educated.
    Weren’t Armenians and Jews also neglected and unprotected ? Where are they today?
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Weren’t Armenians and Jews also neglected and unprotected ? Where are they today?
    Jews neglected and unprotected? LOL They were given a slice of Palestine. Any resolution that's not in their favor can be vetoed by the US.
    Armenians weren't neglected, either. They were embraced by the local Christian communities.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    Jews neglected and unprotected? LOL They were given a slice of Palestine. Any resolution that's not in their favor can be vetoed by the US.
    Armenians weren't neglected, either. They were embraced by the local Christian communities.

    Yes, a 'slice of Palestine' was given to Holocaust survivors and Jewish refugees from Muslim countries. And Armenians came literally with nothing but the clothes they were wearing.
     
    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Well-Known Member
    Jews neglected and unprotected? LOL They were given a slice of Palestine. Any resolution that's not in their favor can be vetoed by the US.
    Armenians weren't neglected, either. They were embraced by the local Christian communities.
    During Ottoman era?
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think the number of "cultural Shiites" is misrepresented.
    I was born into a God-fearing yet irreligious Shiite family and certainly don't identify with Shia Islam, neither culturally or religiously.
    Also, I dislike Hizbullah and I'm an anti-Islam activist.

    I know many "Shiites" like me.
    Another U-turn? Man you should keep a tracker underneath your avatar la7atta na3ref iza 3am ne7ki ma3 Dr. Jeckyll aw Mr. Hyde.
     
    Xynus87

    Xynus87

    New Member
    Weren’t Armenians and Jews also neglected and unprotected ? Where are they today?
    The phrase "Shiites are the least educated" is clearly the worst phrase written in here. Go and observe Professors in the Lebanese University, more than half of them are Shiites. Despite the neglecting that occurred you can observe all of Shiite scholars since the 10th century until the 21th century, who not only studied Islam but also Mathematics, astronomy and philosophy (and sometimes natural sciences too). The phrase I should have referred mainly to was the poorest, obviously Shiites were for a long time. Jews were neglected, can you tell me what were the Jews prior to world war 2? After WW2 and the compassion that happened to the Jews (in addition to getting a land that is not their own) helped them get special status especially in the USA. Armenians are not in the best condition ever since the great massacre that happened to them, and all the wars that happened during and after WW1. I don't mean to poke fun of anyone of any sect clearly, this should be a friendly discussion but making vague phrases that are offensive should get a good response.
     
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    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    "cultural Muslims"...lol
    Wlak El "cultural Lebanese", Kellon 3a Ba3don, Anja2 Yen3addo 3al Asabi3...
    Ba3dein it's called "cultivated" or "cultured"... Mesh Ma32oul Shou Vilgueure (@TM Nidal Ahmadieh)
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    "cultural Muslims"...lol
    Wlak El "cultural Lebanese", Kellon 3a Ba3don, Anja2 Yen3addo 3al Asabi3...
    Ba3dein it's called "cultivated" or "cultured"... Mesh Ma32oul Shou Vilgueure (@TM Nidal Ahmadieh)
    He's not talking about cultured or well-educated Muslims.
    He's rather talking about Muslims who are irreligious yet identify with Muslim culture due to their upbringing or family background, hence the term "Cultural Muslims".
    This term has its own Wikipedia page. I wouldn't be surprised if @Ice Tea has created it :p

    PS: Nidal Ahmadiyyeh is such a crazy witch.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    He's not talking about cultured or well-educated Muslims.
    He's rather talking about Muslims who are irreligious yet identify with Muslim culture due to their upbringing or family background, hence the term "Cultural Muslims".
    This term has its own Wikipedia page. I wouldn't be surprised if @Ice Tea has created it :p
    Yes I know...Bass since he is mostly interested in talking about "educated and 'Christian-like", or classy and dangerous Hamaj ones, then I figured he is mostly pointing at another direction.

    Anyway, Lebanese in their wide majority are rather "cultural sectarian", and equally ill cultured people, no mater their "cultural religion", if anyone has doubts. :lol:

    PS: Nidal Ahmadiyyeh is such a crazy witch.
    Yes tell me about her....hahaha.
     
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