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    الحق ع جبران باسيل

Dear Lebanon

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I was tempted to chose as a title for this thread, something that would be more crude and blunt, in order to depict the awful and unbearable level that this country has reached. But then, I remembered that the purpose is to discuss the mater in order to find solutions. And to that effect, one needs first to care about the country, if not love it, at least a little. Hence the title to remind everyone the state of mind this thread needs.

Now that this part is cleared, let's get to the topic.

As we all see and feel, the quality of life in Lebanon has become mediocre to say the least. We can start by enumerating the many problems that were engendered by successive years of wars and the suffocating corruption of the Oligarchy that is ruling this country, like water, electricity, lack of services...etc...etc..

However what is most striking, is the fact that the open living space is becoming dirty and ugly, and in parallel, the Lebanese are becoming exceedingly vulgar and ill mannered, aggressive, disrespectful, and dangerous, that's if they are not futile, stupid and shallow.

Matter of fact is that societal norms have disappeared since quite a while, and the country has turned into a jungle, where each individual forges himself his own education and his own sets of rules and believes that he upholds the truth about what he considers right and what he considers wrong, and wants to even enforce it on others.

One effect of that anomaly that we are witnessing, is that people reached a stage where they happen to just kill each others in the street for the most futile of pretexts. We usually jump up easily to blame authorities, or the system, but the truth is far more complex. Of course it is true that lack of justice and order helps crime expand. But in here, we are rather witnessing ordinary people turning, not into criminals, but into "beasts", and by that, I mean a society regressing and going back into a primitive state.

Now I don't want to turn this discussion into some sociological debate, but rather into an insight of what could be made to reverse this process.

And sometimes, small steps can make big differences.

But first, one needs to identify the problem. So let's try and expose that in small steps. Then we can start seeing if it can be addressed, if not solved.



I suggest to tackle both the space, and the people. What problems does the space suffer from, what problems do the people suffer from, and what simple trick can be done to solve that.

Here is my contribution by few ideas:

1- The public space in Lebanon needs to be restored, cleaned up, and evacuated from all trespassers. This should be the task of each municipality and it could be enforced without much efforts. Granted that there are few cases of a magnitude that can have a political weight, and can therefore be left for a later stage, but for the most it is not a difficult task. It just needs to be addressed This issue is vital because this country is small and overcrowded. It needs to breath and remain beautiful. Gardens should be taken care of adequately. As for the roads, the State needs to create sidewalks for most of them, and protect the pedestrian areas.

And since manpower is needed, I believe that the military service should be restored, and should include civil service. This would not only contribute to create an effective workforce, but would also help raise better citizens on all levels.

And if Lebanon shows seriousness in this effort, many countries and organizations would be happy to help and contribute.

2- Public transportation. This is the easiest task. Yet the one that creates most and immediate benefits. Many companies from all around the World would be more than happy to work in any place or city on a BOT basis, and that's for the biggest structures. As for smaller structures, many municipalities have the means to implement public transportation services, which could generate revenues.

Noting that with a full functioning public transport system, Lebanon would be making a giant leap into development of its remote areas, let alone, into the expansion of its touristic potential. Public transportation is the best touristic guide and development tool.

3- People: Lebanese people need to be taught common sets of values. I'm not sure what is the best way to follow in order to reprogram them again, but I think that this is a long and slow process that should start, and keep growing over the years. The use of ads in TV and on billboards should be extensive. Small messages to engrave in people's minds. Over and over again.

First thing that the Lebanese needs to learn, is to wait in a line. I know that some might smile, but let me say how I personally consider it. A person that doesn't wait in the line, is a person that actually steals another person's turn. Whether when driving or standing in a queue. This is just theft. And not only that, it is also rude. Notice that we have reached a level, where people deal with each others on all matters with the same state of mind, with carelessness, rudeness, and theft. So there is a real correlation here.

And let me be clear that all levels of the Lebanese society are alike in this. The rich, the poor, the educated, the illiterate, the one with one nationality or the one with half a dozen nationalities, the proud "cunning/resourceful" one and the hypocrite poser. When it comes to the ground, they all behave like chicken running to grab, eat and run.

It is the state of mind that should be addressed first and foremost. Standing in line teaches many notions. It teaches the person that it lives in a society, it teaches respect, humility, it makes the person understand that others are equal to her, and that others too, have rights and deserve respect just like she does. It teaches the person to be just, to be honest, to be patient, etc...etc...This is why I always say that no society can be considered evolved until its citizens learn to wait in line..This behavior is to my understanding, the pillar of a civilized society.

Ok, enough for now, let's get the thread going...
------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Please try and keep this thread civil and constructive. No nagging or finger pointing or blame gaming or politics or sectarianism allowed.This kind of childish behavior is not welcome in this discussion. This thread might require some more effort in maturity and self discipline, which does not prevent from being severe or even harsh in exposing all kind of symptoms this country is showing.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
I was tempted to chose as a title for this thread, something that would be more crude and blunt, in order to depict the awful and unbearable level that this country has reached. But then, I remembered that the purpose is to discuss the mater in order to find solutions. And to that effect, one needs first to care about the country, if not love it, at least a little. Hence the title to remind everyone the state of mind this thread needs.

Now that this part is cleared, let's get to the topic.

As we all see and feel, the quality of life in Lebanon has become mediocre to say the least. We can start by enumerating the many problems that were engendered by successive years of wars and the suffocating corruption of the Oligarchy that is ruling this country, like water, electricity, lack of services...etc...etc..

However what is most striking, is the fact that the open living space is becoming dirty and ugly, and in parallel, the Lebanese are becoming exceedingly vulgar and ill mannered, aggressive, disrespectful, and dangerous, that's if they are not futile, stupid and shallow.

Matter of fact is that societal norms have disappeared since quite a while, and the country has turned into a jungle, where each individual forges himself his own education and his own sets of rules and believes that he upholds the truth about what he considers right and what he considers wrong, and wants to even enforce it on others.

One effect of that anomaly that we are witnessing, is that people reached a stage where they happen to just kill each others in the street for the most futile of pretexts. We usually jump up easily to blame authorities, or the system, but the truth is far more complex. Of course it is true that lack of justice and order helps crime expand. But in here, we are rather witnessing ordinary people turning, not into criminals, but into "beasts", and by that, I mean a society regressing and going back into a primitive state.

Now I don't want to turn this discussion into some sociological debate, but rather into an insight of what could be made to reverse this process.

And sometimes, small steps can make big differences.

But first, one needs to identify the problem. So let's try and expose that in small steps. Then we can start seeing if it can be addressed, if not solved.



I suggest to tackle both the space, and the people. What problems does the space suffer from, what problems do the people suffer from, and what simple trick can be done to solve that.

Here is my contribution by few ideas:

1- The public space in Lebanon needs to be restored, cleaned up, and evacuated from all trespassers. This should be the task of each municipality and it could be enforced without much efforts. Granted that there are few cases of a magnitude that can have a political weight, and can therefore be left for a later stage, but for the most it is not a difficult task. It just needs to be addressed This issue is vital because this country is small and overcrowded. It needs to breath and remain beautiful. Gardens should be taken care of adequately. As for the roads, the State needs to create sidewalks for most of them, and protect the pedestrian areas.

And since manpower is needed, I believe that the military service should be restored, and should include civil service. This would not only contribute to create an effective workforce, but would also help raise better citizens on all levels.

And if Lebanon shows seriousness in this effort, many countries and organizations would be happy to help and contribute.

2- Public transportation. This is the easiest task. Yet the one that creates most and immediate benefits. Many companies from all around the World would be more than happy to work in any place or city on a BOT basis, and that's for the biggest structures. As for smaller structures, many municipalities have the means to implement public transportation services, which could generate revenues.

Noting that with a full functioning public transport system, Lebanon would be making a giant leap into development of its remote areas, let alone, into the expansion of its touristic potential. Public transportation is the best touristic guide and development tool.

3- People: Lebanese people need to be taught common sets of values. I'm not sure what is the best way to follow in order to reprogram them again, but I think that this is a long and slow process that should start, and keep growing over the years. The use of ads in TV and on billboards should be extensive. Small messages to engrave in people's minds. Over and over again.

First thing that the Lebanese needs to learn, is to wait in a line. I know that some might smile, but let me say how I personally consider it. A person that doesn't wait in the line, is a person that actually steals another person's turn. Whether when driving or standing in a queue. This is just theft. And not only that, it is also rude. Notice that we have reached a level, where people deal with each others on all matters with the same state of mind, with carelessness, rudeness, and theft. So there is a real correlation here.

And let me be clear that all levels of the Lebanese society are alike in this. The rich, the poor, the educated, the illiterate, the one with one nationality or the one with half a dozen nationalities, the proud "cunning/resourceful" one and the hypocrite poser. When it comes to the ground, they all behave like chicken running to grab, eat and run.

It is the state of mind that should be addressed first and foremost. Standing in line teaches many notions. It teaches the person that it lives in a society, it teaches respect, humility, it makes the person understand that others are equal to her, and that others too, have rights and deserve respect just like she does. It teaches the person to be just, to be honest, to be patient, etc...etc...This is why I always say that no society can be considered evolved until its citizens learn to wait in line..This behavior is to my understanding, the pillar of a civilized society.

Ok, enough for now, let's get the thread going...
------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Please try and keep this thread civil and constructive. No nagging or finger pointing or blame gaming or politics or sectarianism allowed.This kind of childish behavior is not welcome in this discussion. This thread might require some more effort in maturity and self discipline, which does not prevent from being severe or even harsh in exposing all kind of symptoms this country is showing.

You are wasting your time. :)
It is in our blood unfortunately. Most not all but most simply don't care. We Lebanese think that we are a special race for some reason. Maybe because we are surrounded by Jarabs. Even those who live abroad are the same. They only follow laws due to the country they are in. When they come back to Lebanon they start to be the same as those that are in the country.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I was tempted to chose as a title for this thread, something that would be more crude and blunt, in order to depict the awful and unbearable level that this country has reached. But then, I remembered that the purpose is to discuss the mater in order to find solutions. And to that effect, one needs first to care about the country, if not love it, at least a little. Hence the title to remind everyone the state of mind this thread needs.

Now that this part is cleared, let's get to the topic.

As we all see and feel, the quality of life in Lebanon has become mediocre to say the least. We can start by enumerating the many problems that were engendered by successive years of wars and the suffocating corruption of the Oligarchy that is ruling this country, like water, electricity, lack of services...etc...etc..

However what is most striking, is the fact that the open living space is becoming dirty and ugly, and in parallel, the Lebanese are becoming exceedingly vulgar and ill mannered, aggressive, disrespectful, and dangerous, that's if they are not futile, stupid and shallow.

Matter of fact is that societal norms have disappeared since quite a while, and the country has turned into a jungle, where each individual forges himself his own education and his own sets of rules and believes that he upholds the truth about what he considers right and what he considers wrong, and wants to even enforce it on others.

One effect of that anomaly that we are witnessing, is that people reached a stage where they happen to just kill each others in the street for the most futile of pretexts. We usually jump up easily to blame authorities, or the system, but the truth is far more complex. Of course it is true that lack of justice and order helps crime expand. But in here, we are rather witnessing ordinary people turning, not into criminals, but into "beasts", and by that, I mean a society regressing and going back into a primitive state.

Now I don't want to turn this discussion into some sociological debate, but rather into an insight of what could be made to reverse this process.

And sometimes, small steps can make big differences.

But first, one needs to identify the problem. So let's try and expose that in small steps. Then we can start seeing if it can be addressed, if not solved.



I suggest to tackle both the space, and the people. What problems does the space suffer from, what problems do the people suffer from, and what simple trick can be done to solve that.

Here is my contribution by few ideas:

1- The public space in Lebanon needs to be restored, cleaned up, and evacuated from all trespassers. This should be the task of each municipality and it could be enforced without much efforts. Granted that there are few cases of a magnitude that can have a political weight, and can therefore be left for a later stage, but for the most it is not a difficult task. It just needs to be addressed This issue is vital because this country is small and overcrowded. It needs to breath and remain beautiful. Gardens should be taken care of adequately. As for the roads, the State needs to create sidewalks for most of them, and protect the pedestrian areas.

And since manpower is needed, I believe that the military service should be restored, and should include civil service. This would not only contribute to create an effective workforce, but would also help raise better citizens on all levels.

And if Lebanon shows seriousness in this effort, many countries and organizations would be happy to help and contribute.

2- Public transportation. This is the easiest task. Yet the one that creates most and immediate benefits. Many companies from all around the World would be more than happy to work in any place or city on a BOT basis, and that's for the biggest structures. As for smaller structures, many municipalities have the means to implement public transportation services, which could generate revenues.

Noting that with a full functioning public transport system, Lebanon would be making a giant leap into development of its remote areas, let alone, into the expansion of its touristic potential. Public transportation is the best touristic guide and development tool.

3- People: Lebanese people need to be taught common sets of values. I'm not sure what is the best way to follow in order to reprogram them again, but I think that this is a long and slow process that should start, and keep growing over the years. The use of ads in TV and on billboards should be extensive. Small messages to engrave in people's minds. Over and over again.

First thing that the Lebanese needs to learn, is to wait in a line. I know that some might smile, but let me say how I personally consider it. A person that doesn't wait in the line, is a person that actually steals another person's turn. Whether when driving or standing in a queue. This is just theft. And not only that, it is also rude. Notice that we have reached a level, where people deal with each others on all matters with the same state of mind, with carelessness, rudeness, and theft. So there is a real correlation here.

And let me be clear that all levels of the Lebanese society are alike in this. The rich, the poor, the educated, the illiterate, the one with one nationality or the one with half a dozen nationalities, the proud "cunning/resourceful" one and the hypocrite poser. When it comes to the ground, they all behave like chicken running to grab, eat and run.

It is the state of mind that should be addressed first and foremost. Standing in line teaches many notions. It teaches the person that it lives in a society, it teaches respect, humility, it makes the person understand that others are equal to her, and that others too, have rights and deserve respect just like she does. It teaches the person to be just, to be honest, to be patient, etc...etc...This is why I always say that no society can be considered evolved until its citizens learn to wait in line..This behavior is to my understanding, the pillar of a civilized society.

Ok, enough for now, let's get the thread going...
------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Please try and keep this thread civil and constructive. No nagging or finger pointing or blame gaming or politics or sectarianism allowed.This kind of childish behavior is not welcome in this discussion. This thread might require some more effort in maturity and self discipline, which does not prevent from being severe or even harsh in exposing all kind of symptoms this country is showing.

I have multiple projects that I would love to implement in Lebanon, but the country is unaffordable to live in, and these are not projects I can implement from abroad.

And this is a big part of the problem...many people who are creative and passionate, and who would love to contribute, end up abroad because they simply cannot afford to live in Lebanon.

I could come up with creative ways to fund my projects, but I would still have to solve the issue of maintaining a reasonable standard of living for myself. I am not that demanding, I can even deal with the electricity cuts and the political instability, but I draw the line at having no water and no guaranteed access to health care (both of which I have experienced while in Lebanon).
 

Randomiser

New Member
We're fighting for a lost cause here, it's simply better to leave and find a better place. The country is going to nowhere except worst as long the current political establishment remain in charge and current constitution that is nominally functional remains in place.

The politicians from ALL parties never gave a single damn about the people, every minor or major project or plan made by government include at least millions of dollars worth of profit to the politicians and their aides.

The country is slowly turning into an authoritarian multi-tribal police state, any kind of defiance to the establishment is met with brutal force and manipulating games, protesters are beaten, arrested, and sued in courts for calling for their rights, people are being chased by police for Facebook posts and tweets, whenever an strong electoral alliance of civil society that challenge their words they ally among themselves to crash it like Beirut Elections last year along with universities and syndicates elections. Sometimes, they send their own gangs and hooligans to the job in angry mobs.

Even wealthy Lebanese who wants to make investments in the country and create jobs for the young people can't do much. These Lebanese investors are met with demands from the dominant politicians in "that" area to have a free share in profits and have their own people in key positions, as if we are still leaving in an tribal-era with emir in every section of the country.

Some might argue that some parties provide social services and jobs within their areas, they are wrong. They want to stay dominate and keep the people in check and under their control, they keep the population submissive by controlling their income and all means of least suitable and decent life while big heads making millions of dollars.

The economical collapse is imminent and coming sooner or late if the current policies and debt rising remains the same, that would be the only situation to see a real revolution that the politicians can't handle, but any new political class will have to inherit a dominantly-import regressive economy with 100 billion $ debt along with 5 billion $ interest/year along with an inflated currency, outdated and wrecked infrastructure/State institutions.
 

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I have multiple projects that I would love to implement in Lebanon, but the country is unaffordable to live in, and these are not projects I can implement from abroad.

And this is a big part of the problem...many people who are creative and passionate, and who would love to contribute, end up abroad because they simply cannot afford to live in Lebanon.

I could come up with creative ways to fund my projects, but I would still have to solve the issue of maintaining a reasonable standard of living for myself. I am not that demanding, I can even deal with the electricity cuts and the political instability, but I draw the line at having no water and no guaranteed access to health care (both of which I have experienced while in Lebanon).

Yes I understand your concerns. And I do agree that this hinders the action, just like many many other obstacles. And this is why I said earlier, that we need to start with very little steps. We can't see too big at this stage because we'll end up frozen and discouraged.

These days a small hashtag, a public poll, a billboard ad, car stickers,... can mobilize enough people to start a giant operation. Even new words could be invented.

I'm not any kind of activist, however, I do reckon that some activism is needed to get things rolling. Things are going the wrong way too fast and it is time to reverse it. People are educating their kids to be rude, violent, inconsiderate of others, disrespectful...Take a tour in schools and you will be amazed at the level the next generation is raised by.

And if we take a look back to 2 or 3 decades earlier, we can easily see that the Lebanese society of today, has not much to do with the Lebanese society of that time.

These are simply not the same people. Today there are no more values and no more social norms. And this is leading to destruction. In one or 2 generations, we might reach a point where nothing would remain from our traditions and cultural identity. At this point, any notion of Lebanese society would have disappeared, and we would be living in an ugly small land, dissected into separated and unrelated small areas, having each its own landscape and its own standards of living, and forming each a detached microcosm that has no past and no future.

And the common space would be a dumpster for all, in a common explicit or tacit agreement, if not in a common disregard and lack of concern.


#Do_Not_Litter_My_Streets
#You're_Ugly_When_You_Swear
#Public_Space_Is_Sacred
#Smile_You're_an_Official_Idiot
#You're_Not_Funny
#A_Proud_Retard
 

nonsense

Legendary Member
I was tempted to chose as a title for this thread, something that would be more crude and blunt, in order to depict the awful and unbearable level that this country has reached. But then, I remembered that the purpose is to discuss the mater in order to find solutions. And to that effect, one needs first to care about the country, if not love it, at least a little. Hence the title to remind everyone the state of mind this thread needs.

Now that this part is cleared, let's get to the topic.

As we all see and feel, the quality of life in Lebanon has become mediocre to say the least. We can start by enumerating the many problems that were engendered by successive years of wars and the suffocating corruption of the Oligarchy that is ruling this country, like water, electricity, lack of services...etc...etc..

However what is most striking, is the fact that the open living space is becoming dirty and ugly, and in parallel, the Lebanese are becoming exceedingly vulgar and ill mannered, aggressive, disrespectful, and dangerous, that's if they are not futile, stupid and shallow.

Matter of fact is that societal norms have disappeared since quite a while, and the country has turned into a jungle, where each individual forges himself his own education and his own sets of rules and believes that he upholds the truth about what he considers right and what he considers wrong, and wants to even enforce it on others.

One effect of that anomaly that we are witnessing, is that people reached a stage where they happen to just kill each others in the street for the most futile of pretexts. We usually jump up easily to blame authorities, or the system, but the truth is far more complex. Of course it is true that lack of justice and order helps crime expand. But in here, we are rather witnessing ordinary people turning, not into criminals, but into "beasts", and by that, I mean a society regressing and going back into a primitive state.

Now I don't want to turn this discussion into some sociological debate, but rather into an insight of what could be made to reverse this process.

And sometimes, small steps can make big differences.

But first, one needs to identify the problem. So let's try and expose that in small steps. Then we can start seeing if it can be addressed, if not solved.



I suggest to tackle both the space, and the people. What problems does the space suffer from, what problems do the people suffer from, and what simple trick can be done to solve that.

Here is my contribution by few ideas:

1- The public space in Lebanon needs to be restored, cleaned up, and evacuated from all trespassers. This should be the task of each municipality and it could be enforced without much efforts. Granted that there are few cases of a magnitude that can have a political weight, and can therefore be left for a later stage, but for the most it is not a difficult task. It just needs to be addressed This issue is vital because this country is small and overcrowded. It needs to breath and remain beautiful. Gardens should be taken care of adequately. As for the roads, the State needs to create sidewalks for most of them, and protect the pedestrian areas.

And since manpower is needed, I believe that the military service should be restored, and should include civil service. This would not only contribute to create an effective workforce, but would also help raise better citizens on all levels.

And if Lebanon shows seriousness in this effort, many countries and organizations would be happy to help and contribute.

2- Public transportation. This is the easiest task. Yet the one that creates most and immediate benefits. Many companies from all around the World would be more than happy to work in any place or city on a BOT basis, and that's for the biggest structures. As for smaller structures, many municipalities have the means to implement public transportation services, which could generate revenues.

Noting that with a full functioning public transport system, Lebanon would be making a giant leap into development of its remote areas, let alone, into the expansion of its touristic potential. Public transportation is the best touristic guide and development tool.

3- People: Lebanese people need to be taught common sets of values. I'm not sure what is the best way to follow in order to reprogram them again, but I think that this is a long and slow process that should start, and keep growing over the years. The use of ads in TV and on billboards should be extensive. Small messages to engrave in people's minds. Over and over again.

First thing that the Lebanese needs to learn, is to wait in a line. I know that some might smile, but let me say how I personally consider it. A person that doesn't wait in the line, is a person that actually steals another person's turn. Whether when driving or standing in a queue. This is just theft. And not only that, it is also rude. Notice that we have reached a level, where people deal with each others on all matters with the same state of mind, with carelessness, rudeness, and theft. So there is a real correlation here.

And let me be clear that all levels of the Lebanese society are alike in this. The rich, the poor, the educated, the illiterate, the one with one nationality or the one with half a dozen nationalities, the proud "cunning/resourceful" one and the hypocrite poser. When it comes to the ground, they all behave like chicken running to grab, eat and run.

It is the state of mind that should be addressed first and foremost. Standing in line teaches many notions. It teaches the person that it lives in a society, it teaches respect, humility, it makes the person understand that others are equal to her, and that others too, have rights and deserve respect just like she does. It teaches the person to be just, to be honest, to be patient, etc...etc...This is why I always say that no society can be considered evolved until its citizens learn to wait in line..This behavior is to my understanding, the pillar of a civilized society.

Ok, enough for now, let's get the thread going...
------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Please try and keep this thread civil and constructive. No nagging or finger pointing or blame gaming or politics or sectarianism allowed.This kind of childish behavior is not welcome in this discussion. This thread might require some more effort in maturity and self discipline, which does not prevent from being severe or even harsh in exposing all kind of symptoms this country is showing.
It is a good thing that you have brought this up. I think a lot of people share your feelings about the situation, but keeping it clear and constructive is necessary as you said.

Public space, public transportation, these two essential basics are necessary. I can imagine a lot of improvements that could be taken up at the municipal level when it comes to public space. Transportation though is a biggie, because I imagine most of it is in fact going in and out of beirut, and around the capital itself.

Values is definitely something we could work on bottoms-up. Maybe we should define a list of who we want to be, rather than our perception of what we are, and aim towards achieving it. What do we want to be as a Lebanese society in 10 years, in 20 years, what values do we want to have? That is maybe more important than What do we want Lebanon to be like in the same timeline (though essential as well).

If we are able to reach such a basic list with consensus at some level, then the discussion goes to how to spread it out and push people towards it, bit by bit. Needless to say this will all be futile unless the government improves infrastructure and socioeconomic situation in parallel, but we have to do our part.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
My thoughts:
1- before public transportation, we must have a police force that a- knows the (driving) law and b- ruthlessly apply it (on themselves, public figures and entities as well as normal citizens). Our streets are a perfect example of broken windows: small infractions go unpunished, so people feel enabled to do bigger infractions, and bigger ones, to the point of shooting someone point blank... we must absolutely force law and order there. It is one of those seemingly small steps but I believe will make a massive difference, if anything people don't get to where they are going with an aggressive state of mind.

2- standards standards standards! We have very able skilled labour, and very good construction companies, yet we only think of the initial building phase and never the ongoing maintenance: cleaning façades, maintaining paint, lights, markings... for private and public spaces, buildings and structures. We let things get dirty, worn down, until they are no longer usable and need to be completely changed. A waste of resources and loss of our heritage. Just look at the new bridges in Antelias, or newly asphaltes roads... contractors are not held accountable for the maintenance so they do a shit job compacting and use crap materials, which then creates holes that we never fix, and end up having to redo the road ...! New amen 3am building, the airport...
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Great topic Abu. You're seeing things as we all do, and putting your finger on very specific important solution aspects. It's indeed a troubling situation, because it's about a systematic decomposition and breakdown of basic social and cultural norms, caused by various factors.

To reverse the trend huge efforts are needed. We Lebanese, unlike many societies, have no experience of communitarian activities and efforts, where a bunch of locals launch initiatives and pursue them. It's not in our culture. So, whatever needs be done it should be channelized through already established channels and I see political parties as the only most direct such means to get the message through.

Enrolling powerful media and media personalities, and having the active support of parties and state institutions like the interior and eduction ministries as well as representatives for schools, in a massive information campaign during a couple of years, in addition to the measures you mentioned, should yield us something in return in 5, 10 years from now.

All is needed is relentless efforts to keep enforcing awareness about the issue inside people's minds, and then true dedication and perseverance for the engaged in campaigns or others thought of measures to make the change. Huge project and will take time but if nothing is done, Lebanon will continue to be "every man for himself" country.
 

Suzie

New Member
When you say standards I'm hoping you mean building standards and materials used.
From what l have seen and experienced in lebanon these problems begin with the construction. Unskilled workers on building sites with no knowledge or experience working on our infrastructure. Buildings in framing stage which already have collapsed walls and are patched up. No flashing on windows. Electrical wiring sticking out. Load bearing walls knocked out and rebuilt In a different location. These are a few examples.
Where are the project managers and who is in charge? Who inspects these?
The foundation, footings, reinforcement and concrete grade is the most important part infrastructure. Too many shortcuts and cheaper options are used at this crucial stage. Most problem arise for other reasons but this would be the main one.
Materials which do not conform or maybe they do in Lebanon should be checked.
I've tried to contact Libnor and other organisations regarding conformity with no response. And l am guessing nobody cares.
It should be mandatory and regulated especially if products are being imported. Fire ratings, asbestos, formaldehyde, adhesives, windows, glass and many other issues can be harmful and dangerous on buildings and have short and long term effects on the infrastrutture and the lives of people living in them.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
My thoughts:
1- before public transportation, we must have a police force that a- knows the (driving) law and b- ruthlessly apply it (on themselves, public figures and entities as well as normal citizens). Our streets are a perfect example of broken windows: small infractions go unpunished, so people feel enabled to do bigger infractions, and bigger ones, to the point of shooting someone point blank... we must absolutely force law and order there. It is one of those seemingly small steps but I believe will make a massive difference, if anything people don't get to where they are going with an aggressive state of mind.

2- standards standards standards! We have very able skilled labour, and very good construction companies, yet we only think of the initial building phase and never the ongoing maintenance: cleaning façades, maintaining paint, lights, markings... for private and public spaces, buildings and structures. We let things get dirty, worn down, until they are no longer usable and need to be completely changed. A waste of resources and loss of our heritage. Just look at the new bridges in Antelias, or newly asphaltes roads... contractors are not held accountable for the maintenance so they do a shit job compacting and use crap materials, which then creates holes that we never fix, and end up having to redo the road ...! New amen 3am building, the airport...

I have to disagree with you regarding most of the building companies. They are some of the biggest contributors to Lebanon's demise. They have no appreciation for architecture, urbanism, the environment, or historical heritage. All they care about is their fat wallets.

From the soulless glass and concrete towers to the cheesy historical replicas...they neither understand modern design, nor true historic charm.

But hey...when 75% of the women trade their natural Lebanese beauty for a disfigured plastic mask, and people think it looks good, you can't expect them to have better standards when it comes to buildings.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I have to disagree with you regarding most of the building companies. They are some of the biggest contributors to Lebanon's demise. They have no appreciation for architecture, urbanism, the environment, or historical heritage. All they care about is their fat wallets.

From the soulless glass and concrete towers to the cheesy historical replicas...they neither understand modern design, nor true historic charm.

But hey...when 75% of the women trade their natural Lebanese beauty for a disfigured plastic mask, and people think it looks good, you can't expect them to have better standards when it comes to buildings.
You must distinguish between the architectural companies (who create the space, atmosphere, vision of what is to be builtc translate the vision into what is possible and how it would look like), the design companies that then create the plans to actually build, and the contracting companies that execute the buildings/structures. The local companies that are very strong are the contracting companies (fi ktir), whereas the design is the architect AND the client, so if he client zaw2o zbele, your design will be zbele... our contracting companies can execute brilliant stuff...
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
I was tempted to chose as a title for this thread, something that would be more crude and blunt, in order to depict the awful and unbearable level that this country has reached. But then, I remembered that the purpose is to discuss the mater in order to find solutions. And to that effect, one needs first to care about the country, if not love it, at least a little. Hence the title to remind everyone the state of mind this thread needs.

Now that this part is cleared, let's get to the topic.

As we all see and feel, the quality of life in Lebanon has become mediocre to say the least. We can start by enumerating the many problems that were engendered by successive years of wars and the suffocating corruption of the Oligarchy that is ruling this country, like water, electricity, lack of services...etc...etc..

However what is most striking, is the fact that the open living space is becoming dirty and ugly, and in parallel, the Lebanese are becoming exceedingly vulgar and ill mannered, aggressive, disrespectful, and dangerous, that's if they are not futile, stupid and shallow.

Matter of fact is that societal norms have disappeared since quite a while, and the country has turned into a jungle, where each individual forges himself his own education and his own sets of rules and believes that he upholds the truth about what he considers right and what he considers wrong, and wants to even enforce it on others.

One effect of that anomaly that we are witnessing, is that people reached a stage where they happen to just kill each others in the street for the most futile of pretexts. We usually jump up easily to blame authorities, or the system, but the truth is far more complex. Of course it is true that lack of justice and order helps crime expand. But in here, we are rather witnessing ordinary people turning, not into criminals, but into "beasts", and by that, I mean a society regressing and going back into a primitive state.

Now I don't want to turn this discussion into some sociological debate, but rather into an insight of what could be made to reverse this process.

And sometimes, small steps can make big differences.

But first, one needs to identify the problem. So let's try and expose that in small steps. Then we can start seeing if it can be addressed, if not solved.



I suggest to tackle both the space, and the people. What problems does the space suffer from, what problems do the people suffer from, and what simple trick can be done to solve that.

Here is my contribution by few ideas:

1- The public space in Lebanon needs to be restored, cleaned up, and evacuated from all trespassers. This should be the task of each municipality and it could be enforced without much efforts. Granted that there are few cases of a magnitude that can have a political weight, and can therefore be left for a later stage, but for the most it is not a difficult task. It just needs to be addressed This issue is vital because this country is small and overcrowded. It needs to breath and remain beautiful. Gardens should be taken care of adequately. As for the roads, the State needs to create sidewalks for most of them, and protect the pedestrian areas.

And since manpower is needed, I believe that the military service should be restored, and should include civil service. This would not only contribute to create an effective workforce, but would also help raise better citizens on all levels.

And if Lebanon shows seriousness in this effort, many countries and organizations would be happy to help and contribute.

2- Public transportation. This is the easiest task. Yet the one that creates most and immediate benefits. Many companies from all around the World would be more than happy to work in any place or city on a BOT basis, and that's for the biggest structures. As for smaller structures, many municipalities have the means to implement public transportation services, which could generate revenues.

Noting that with a full functioning public transport system, Lebanon would be making a giant leap into development of its remote areas, let alone, into the expansion of its touristic potential. Public transportation is the best touristic guide and development tool.

3- People: Lebanese people need to be taught common sets of values. I'm not sure what is the best way to follow in order to reprogram them again, but I think that this is a long and slow process that should start, and keep growing over the years. The use of ads in TV and on billboards should be extensive. Small messages to engrave in people's minds. Over and over again.

First thing that the Lebanese needs to learn, is to wait in a line. I know that some might smile, but let me say how I personally consider it. A person that doesn't wait in the line, is a person that actually steals another person's turn. Whether when driving or standing in a queue. This is just theft. And not only that, it is also rude. Notice that we have reached a level, where people deal with each others on all matters with the same state of mind, with carelessness, rudeness, and theft. So there is a real correlation here.

And let me be clear that all levels of the Lebanese society are alike in this. The rich, the poor, the educated, the illiterate, the one with one nationality or the one with half a dozen nationalities, the proud "cunning/resourceful" one and the hypocrite poser. When it comes to the ground, they all behave like chicken running to grab, eat and run.

It is the state of mind that should be addressed first and foremost. Standing in line teaches many notions. It teaches the person that it lives in a society, it teaches respect, humility, it makes the person understand that others are equal to her, and that others too, have rights and deserve respect just like she does. It teaches the person to be just, to be honest, to be patient, etc...etc...This is why I always say that no society can be considered evolved until its citizens learn to wait in line..This behavior is to my understanding, the pillar of a civilized society.

Ok, enough for now, let's get the thread going...
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PS: Please try and keep this thread civil and constructive. No nagging or finger pointing or blame gaming or politics or sectarianism allowed.This kind of childish behavior is not welcome in this discussion. This thread might require some more effort in maturity and self discipline, which does not prevent from being severe or even harsh in exposing all kind of symptoms this country is showing.
Ana ma3ak bi kell shi 2elto, but where do you want to start?
 

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Ana ma3ak bi kell shi 2elto, but where do you want to start?

I don't know...really...I have no idea at all.

But my feeling tells me that we need to make a list of all things that reflects the illness this country and its people are suffering from, maybe ideas could pop up then.

Like chronic honking when driving and at each gear shift or turn or stop...shouldn't that type of agitated behavior be considered a mental disorder or illness?

Or like not being capable of stopping correctly at the red light, and keep advancing till almost blocking the crossroad.

Or worse...Keep taking a turn to the right, even though the road sign is red and blocking the opposite flow of cars.

Seriously...These are more than just ill manners and bad behavior...the signs are rather of disturbed people with deep psychological issues. And it's pretty much generalized and therefore alarming.


I'm not sure but I suggest that the Mods keep editing the opening post by adding to it a list of our successive examples, divided for example into two sections, one related to the landscape, and the other to the people. A kind of $hit list, in a way, so maybe by looking at it, over and over again, ideas might start flowing.

Heik Shi I think...Ma Ba3rif,,,
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
What culture and standards are we talking about exactly when the bank will give you a loan to get plastic surgery but not one to buy a house? Cosmetic surgery is now part of the tourism industry in Lebanon sar 3ade. There is no hope for the Lebanese. All my family is in Lebanon and there is no hope for them either. The way they think about things is very different to one who is abroad. Lebanon has always been and always will be about 'ME'. No one cares about anyone.

I am very happy that I am outside the country and living outside especially that I have a family and my little one is 6 months. I will raise her how our grandfathers were raised of respect for everyone and to be humble unlike how Lebanon and the Lebanese do these days.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
I don't know...really...I have no idea at all.

But my feeling tells me that we need to make a list of all things that reflects the illness this country and its people are suffering from, maybe ideas could pop up then.

Like chronic honking when driving and at each gear shift or turn or stop...shouldn't that type of agitated behavior be considered a mental disorder or illness?

Or like not being capable of stopping correctly at the red light, and keep advancing till almost blocking the crossroad.

Or worse...Keep taking a turn to the right, even though the road sign is red and blocking the opposite flow of cars.

Seriously...These are more than just ill manners and bad behavior...the signs are rather of disturbed people with deep psychological issues. And it's pretty much generalized and therefore alarming.


I'm not sure but I suggest that the Mods keep editing the opening post by adding to it a list of our successive examples, divided for example into two sections, one related to the landscape, and the other to the people. A kind of $hit list, in a way, so maybe by looking at it, over and over again, ideas might start flowing.

Heik Shi I think...Ma Ba3rif,,,

You should start by teaching the Lebanese to appreciate time. :)
When a person tells you 3pm ya3ne 3pm. Not 10pm not not coming not not calling ya3ne 3pm or you call earlier and state the reason why you are late or not come. One who appreciates the time appreciates those who are opposite to him on the table.
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
I don't know...really...I have no idea at all.

But my feeling tells me that we need to make a list of all things that reflects the illness this country and its people are suffering from, maybe ideas could pop up then.

Like chronic honking when driving and at each gear shift or turn or stop...shouldn't that type of agitated behavior be considered a mental disorder or illness?

Or like not being capable of stopping correctly at the red light, and keep advancing till almost blocking the crossroad.

Or worse...Keep taking a turn to the right, even though the road sign is red and blocking the opposite flow of cars.

Seriously...These are more than just ill manners and bad behavior...the signs are rather of disturbed people with deep psychological issues. And it's pretty much generalized and therefore alarming.


I'm not sure but I suggest that the Mods keep editing the opening post by adding to it a list of our successive examples, divided for example into two sections, one related to the landscape, and the other to the people. A kind of $hit list, in a way, so maybe by looking at it, over and over again, ideas might start flowing.

Heik Shi I think...Ma Ba3rif,,,
Baddak shi metel Broken windows theory - Wikipedia
Bass msibtak the ones who should implement it are the ones who will get hurt by it the most.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
@AbouSandal what you are trying to do is noble but it is too late. Society has gone. There is nothing left and the Lebanese are doomed. Some are talking about space and architecture etc I am speaking about respect and common decency. I don't know if one needs to exterminate them and start from scratch.
 

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Baddak shi metel Broken windows theory - Wikipedia
Bass msibtak the ones who should implement it are the ones who will get hurt by it the most.

Beautiful suggestion. Agree to the comment too. This is why action should be independent from any person of power and/or political weight. Ya3ne Law Badda Tchatteh, Kenit Ghayyamit.

People of goodwill should just ignore the existence of politicians, and advance with their ideas regardless, with whatever tools they can grab on their way.

Or else, we all just keep waiting and waiting...And truth is that we can then wait as long as we want, still, nothing will happen. This is a proven fact.

Seriously...We've been waiting since well before Remy Bandaleh started singing 3touna El Toufouli...Eh 7allna Nefham...lol
 

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@AbouSandal what you are trying to do is noble but it is too late. Society has gone. There is nothing left and the Lebanese are doomed. Some are talking about space and architecture etc I am speaking about respect and common decency. I don't know if one needs to exterminate them and start from scratch.

I understand what you're saying. But I'm still insisting on putting up a fight over it. And I'm not afraid of failing. I'm just afraid of failing, without even trying.

So far, all what people have done, is wait for others to do the work for them. Others that are not even remotely interested by their concerns. So maybe it's just time to get up and do it by yourself.

It might be late, but there is no harm in trying...
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
I understand what you're saying. But I'm still insisting on putting up a fight over it. And I'm not afraid of failing. I'm just afraid of failing, without even trying.

So far, all what people have done, is wait for others to do the work for them. Others that are not even remotely interested by their concerns. So maybe it's just time to get up and do it by yourself.

It might be late, but there is no harm in trying...

But how do you want to do this? We need to teach people first respect regardless of sex, colour or race. Let them have respect first and to be on time for an appointment and the rest will just flow. One needs to have respect for their environment and should know that littering is wrong. One should have a place to put their garbage and no it isn't the floor.
 
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