Deep into Atheism

Dynamite Joe

Dynamite Joe

Active Member
despite the scandalous nature of the series, and although it addresses a difficult time in the Church, and despite the exaggerations, it still paints Christians in a too sophisticated light for dynamite joe's taste. he wouldn't want to portray Christians in any light other than brute cavemen, dressed in hooded gray wool outfits and using their crosses as clubs.
On the contrary, it was systemic terrorism and brutality at its most efficient. The mafia before the mafia...
 
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  • Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Active Member
    "Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood.

    I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.

    And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them."

    Acts 20:28-30

    You see, @SeaAb , Christians have been taught from the beginning not to follow people just because they speak in God's name.

    But why look at the original source that are the Scriptures when you can learn about Christianity from am exaggerated Hollywood script?

    Surely, a TV show centered around sex, scandal, and corruption is more useful to our friend @Dynamite Joe than learning intellectual honesty.

    Good on you for pointing him in the right direction.
    Speaking of original scriptures, there's some interesting passages I quoted you that are still awaiting your comments...

    And any person or organization claiming a monopoly on truth is by nature dictatorial and preaching a dangerous ideology.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Speaking of original scriptures, there's some interesting passages I quoted you that are still awaiting your comments...

    And any person or organization claiming a monopoly on truth is by nature dictatorial and preaching a dangerous ideology.
    And I already told you that I don't play with cheats who keep shifting the goal post.

    When you provide evidence for your initial claims, or you admit that you have no such evidence, we can move to any other point you feel like discussing.

    We will be addressing one point at a time, or none at all.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Care to tell us why it would be sohard to explainn to a kid that, stealing somebody else's property is a bad thing, without invoquing religion?

    Morality, from a religious pov, is very different depending from which religous group one comes from. Here we mostly debate atheism bs chritianity and sometimes islam, but in asia people have a much different set of values that emanate from their religions that i fikd unacceptable, especially in hinduism, but for them its just life as we know it.

    This divergence in moral values based on religion creates inequality and is a perversion of the rights each one of us should be entitled to. But if u teach morality to a kid under certain guidelines of just dont be an asshole to other people, then there would be no distortion of the message.

    @Dark Angel you say that morality, or lack there of in a society that does not follow a set of feligious rules, is bound fade to memory and people will just think abr themselves in selfish ways. But selfishness is already present in religious society, from the most pious to the heretic. This more of psychological problem than a morality problem.

    So the argument that without religion, morality would just fade to memory is a moot point for me. Religious morality would replaced by a set of universal civic guidelines, just like the declaration if human rights, it would say dont be a **** to others bruh :)
    this is today's bible reading, it should answer your question about morality. but i am a bit curious to check if you can perceive how it addresses this very subject in the text, not testing you, i know you are perceptive, but still i would like to see if you could figure it out on your own.

    luke 15: 11-32
    قال الربُّ هذا المثَل. انسانٌ كان لهُ ابنان * فقال اصغرُهما لأَبيهِ يا أَبتِ أَعطِني النصيبَ الذي يخصنُّي من المال . فقسم بينهما معيشَتَهُ * وبعد ايامٍ غير كثيرةٍ جمع الابن الاصغر كلَّ شيءٍ لهُ وسافر الى بلدٍ بعيدٍ وبذَّرَ مالهُ هناك عائشًا في الخلاعة * فلمَّا أَنفَقَ كلَّ شيءٍ لهُ حدثت في ذلك البلد مجاعةٌ شديدةٌ فأخذ في العَوَز * فذهب وانضوى الى واحدٍ من اهل ذلك البلد فارسلهُ الى حقولهِ يرعى خنازير * وكان يشتهي ان يملأَ بطنهُ من الخرنوب الذي كانتِ الخنازير تأكلهُ فلم يُعطِهِ احدٌ * فرجع الى نفسهِ وقال كم لأَبي من أُجَراء يفضُل عنهمُ الخبز وانا أَهِلك جوعًا * أقوم وامضي الى ابي واقول لهُ يا أَبتِ قد أَخطَاتُ الى السماء وامامك . ولست مستحقًّا بعدُ ان أُدعَى لك ابنًا فاجعَلني كأَحد أُجَرائـِك * فقام وجاء الى أبيهِ . وفيما هو بعدُ غير بعيدٍ رآهُ ابوهُ فتحنَّن عليهِ واسرع وأَلقى بنفسهِ على عنقهِ وقبَّلهُ * فقال لهُ الابن يا أَبتِ قد أَخطات الى السماء وامامك ولست مستحِقًّا بعدُ ان أُدعى لك أبنًا * فقال الأَبُ لعبيدهِ هاتوا الحلَّة الاولى وأَلبِسوهُ واجعلوا خاتمًا في يدهِ وحِذاءً في رجلَيهِ * وأتوا بالعجل المسمَّن واذبحوهُ فناكلَ ونفرَح * لانَّ ابنيَ هذا كان ميتًا فعاش وكان ضالاًّ فوُجد . فطفِقوا يفرَحون * وكان ابنَهُ الاكبرُ في الحقل . فلمَّا اتى وقرُب من البيت سمع اصواتَ الغِناء والرقص * فدعا احد الغِلمانِ وسأَلهُ ما هذا * فقال لهُ قد قدمَ اخوك فذبح ابوك العجلَ المسمَّنَ لانَّهُ لقيَهُ سالمًا * فغضب ولم يُرِدْ ان يدخل. فخرج ابوهُ وطفِق يتوسَّلُ اليه * فاجاب وقال لأَبيهِ كم لي مِنَ السنينِ اخْدمُكَ ولم أَتَعـَدَّ لك وصيَّةً قطُّ وانت لم تُعطِني قطُّ جَديًا لأَفرحَ معَ اصدقائي * ولَّما جاء ابنَك هذا الذي اكل معيشَتَك معَ الزواني ذبحتَ لهُ العجلَ المسمَّن * فقال لهُ يا ابني انت معي في كلّ حينٍ وكلُّ ما هو لي فهو لك * ولكن كان ينبغي أن نفرَحَ ونُسَرَّ لانَّ اخاك هذا كان ميّتًا فعاشَ وكان ضالاًّ فوُجد.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Staff member
    this is today's bible reading, it should answer your question about morality. but i am a bit curious to check if you can perceive how it addresses this very subject in the text, not testing you, i know you are perceptive, but still i would like to see if you could figure it out on your own.

    luke 15: 11-32
    قال الربُّ هذا المثَل. انسانٌ كان لهُ ابنان * فقال اصغرُهما لأَبيهِ يا أَبتِ أَعطِني النصيبَ الذي يخصنُّي من المال . فقسم بينهما معيشَتَهُ * وبعد ايامٍ غير كثيرةٍ جمع الابن الاصغر كلَّ شيءٍ لهُ وسافر الى بلدٍ بعيدٍ وبذَّرَ مالهُ هناك عائشًا في الخلاعة * فلمَّا أَنفَقَ كلَّ شيءٍ لهُ حدثت في ذلك البلد مجاعةٌ شديدةٌ فأخذ في العَوَز * فذهب وانضوى الى واحدٍ من اهل ذلك البلد فارسلهُ الى حقولهِ يرعى خنازير * وكان يشتهي ان يملأَ بطنهُ من الخرنوب الذي كانتِ الخنازير تأكلهُ فلم يُعطِهِ احدٌ * فرجع الى نفسهِ وقال كم لأَبي من أُجَراء يفضُل عنهمُ الخبز وانا أَهِلك جوعًا * أقوم وامضي الى ابي واقول لهُ يا أَبتِ قد أَخطَاتُ الى السماء وامامك . ولست مستحقًّا بعدُ ان أُدعَى لك ابنًا فاجعَلني كأَحد أُجَرائـِك * فقام وجاء الى أبيهِ . وفيما هو بعدُ غير بعيدٍ رآهُ ابوهُ فتحنَّن عليهِ واسرع وأَلقى بنفسهِ على عنقهِ وقبَّلهُ * فقال لهُ الابن يا أَبتِ قد أَخطات الى السماء وامامك ولست مستحِقًّا بعدُ ان أُدعى لك أبنًا * فقال الأَبُ لعبيدهِ هاتوا الحلَّة الاولى وأَلبِسوهُ واجعلوا خاتمًا في يدهِ وحِذاءً في رجلَيهِ * وأتوا بالعجل المسمَّن واذبحوهُ فناكلَ ونفرَح * لانَّ ابنيَ هذا كان ميتًا فعاش وكان ضالاًّ فوُجد . فطفِقوا يفرَحون * وكان ابنَهُ الاكبرُ في الحقل . فلمَّا اتى وقرُب من البيت سمع اصواتَ الغِناء والرقص * فدعا احد الغِلمانِ وسأَلهُ ما هذا * فقال لهُ قد قدمَ اخوك فذبح ابوك العجلَ المسمَّنَ لانَّهُ لقيَهُ سالمًا * فغضب ولم يُرِدْ ان يدخل. فخرج ابوهُ وطفِق يتوسَّلُ اليه * فاجاب وقال لأَبيهِ كم لي مِنَ السنينِ اخْدمُكَ ولم أَتَعـَدَّ لك وصيَّةً قطُّ وانت لم تُعطِني قطُّ جَديًا لأَفرحَ معَ اصدقائي * ولَّما جاء ابنَك هذا الذي اكل معيشَتَك معَ الزواني ذبحتَ لهُ العجلَ المسمَّن * فقال لهُ يا ابني انت معي في كلّ حينٍ وكلُّ ما هو لي فهو لك * ولكن كان ينبغي أن نفرَحَ ونُسَرَّ لانَّ اخاك هذا كان ميّتًا فعاشَ وكان ضالاًّ فوُجد.
    I failed to see what u wanted to get at with this text.
    The behavior of the two brothers has always struck me as odd. One is an entitled brat that came back for welfare after he wasted his money, while the other one has daddy issues and is completly jealous of the love that his dad shows to his brother.

    Morality in this case was clearly based on the fathers love for his child, while both of the brothers showed contempt at each other.

    So u've got two different reactions for this event based on two extremes of human emotions, love and dislike. I dont see how religion can influence these reactions. I know what the metaphor oif the father stands for but indintbsee how it fits in the debate.

    Maybe am not as perceptive as u thought, or try not to post deep stuff on monday morning :p
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I failed to see what u wanted to get at with this text.
    The behavior of the two brothers has always struck me as odd. One is an entitled brat that came back for welfare after he wasted his money, while the other one has daddy issues and is completly jealous of the love that his dad shows to his brother.

    Morality in this case was clearly based on the fathers love for his child, while both of the brothers showed contempt at each other.

    So u've got two different reactions for this event based on two extremes of human emotions, love and dislike. I dont see how religion can influence these reactions. I know what the metaphor oif the father stands for but indintbsee how it fits in the debate.

    Maybe am not as perceptive as u thought, or try not to post deep stuff on monday morning :p
    if you start monday morning on such a deep note then your whole week stands to be very promising :p

    both sons in this parable leave alot to be envied and are both far from being complete, and they represent at least one side of the human condition. like most parables given by Jesus, there exists more than one level for interpreting them. on a first glance it appears as though the focus is on the son who demanded his inheritance and went away to squander it, on a second glance it would appear as though the focus is on the forgiving father, on a third it is the reaction of the brother that might capture your attention. and in reality all of these are valid and true.

    but on one of the more particular levels, there is a different realization that settles in, and it is about the richness and what it represents. the father gave his son his whole share, without requesting that his son be bounded to Him. the son went away, and he woke up one day to find he had nothing. and then he returned to his father who was ready to give him his share all over again, as if somehow the richness of the father was still as abundant as it was before he divided it in half.

    now, to bind that back to theology and the very notion of the original sin: "Man wanting to be like god without God" and God's standing offer: "Man is created to like god, but with God". a very subtle nuance, but in one of the two perspective there is abundance, rejuvenation, replenishment, renovation, etc... while on the other perspective there is depletion, diminishing, etc...

    so how does that tie to morality? it is true, at this very day you can decide to split morality morality and move away, and at a first glance it will completely resemble that other half, but once deprived from the fountains that replenish it, a time will come, when it is no longer being replenished, and it shall wither and slowly fade away, while that other half part will always continue to grow and prosper.

    ** theatrical bow **
     
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    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Active Member
    The Top 10 Most Restrictive, False and Dangerous Religious Beliefs
    The Top 10 Most Restrictive, False and Dangerous Religious Beliefs



    The suffering perpetrated by religion (which continues to this day) stems from restrictive, false and dangerous religious beliefs – based on separation.

    Restrictive, false and dangerous religious beliefs
    abound throughout the world, and dominate the mainstream teachings of organized religion. Religion has caused a lot of unnecessary pain to mankind, despite whatever truth and good intentions it has. Some of these dangerous religious beliefs fool you into thinking you can out-source your morality, ethics or spirituality to some external organization. Others prevent you from taking full responsibility for yourself and your actions, thus hindering you from stepping fully into your power. Still others goad you into a false sense of security where there is none. All of them limit you and the deeper realization of Who You Are. Additionally, all of them stem from the single fundamental delusion of separateness, i.e. that we are discrete and separate beings, that some people are better than others and that there is somewhere better you need to get to. An idea based on separateness leads to judgment and exclusion, and can never be as true and powerful as one based on connectedness. All of the following religious beliefs are disempowering obstacles in the way of true freedom.


    Believing Silly Things Can Lead to Dangerous Consequences
    You may think that believing silly things is harmless. They can be, but they can also have serious ramifications. Remember Voltaire’s quote in the image to the left: “those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” If you can convince people to follow you or your group, and that they will get rewarded in some way by doing this (e.g. get to Heaven, get fame, money, sex, knowledge or power, receive safety and security, etc.), you are well on your way to getting them to commit acts of unconsciousness. Next comes tests of loyalty: will they lie for you? Will they cover up for you? Will they cheat for you? Will they die or kill for you? Believing silly, foolish or absurd ideas can have horrible consequences. If you can’t tell truth from lies, you pave the way for corrupt people to seize power, manipulate you with deceptive propaganda and establish tyranny. How many people have murdered in the name of God or committed heinous crimes in the name of religion, all stemming from their dangerous religious beliefs?

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #1: God is on My Side
    So many people get stumped on this one, and all sorts of horrendous division, judgement, condemnation, war and bloodshed has occurred over it. It takes on various forms: god is on my side (not yours); my god is better than your god; my god is the correct god (not yours); god will favor and reward me (not you), etc.
    So much of it stems from a false idea of what “God” is. Whatever you think God is, it’s important to realize that the “kingdom of God” or your own divinity is within you – not in buildings of wood and stone. Even Jesus confirmed this spiritual truth when he said (in various places in the Bible and in the missing Gospel of Thomas from the Nag Hammadi) that if you “split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone and you will find me.”
    Let’s reduce it to the basics. What is God? For most people, it’s their idea of the infinite being, the creator of all. Another way of saying this is that God = All That Is. If we literally insert the phrase “All That Is” into sentences that contain “God”, look at the results we get:
    God is on my side => All That Is is on my side​
    How exactly can All That Is be on your side? How can All That Is have any sides? If it did have sides, how could it not be on all sides at the same time? After all, it includes everything.
    My god is better than your god => My All That Is is better than your All That Is
    How can you have my or your All That Is? How can you possess All That Is? It’s everything, so it belongs equally to everyone, if it is even able to be possessed. Now, you may have an idea of All That Is, which is your idea to hold onto, but that’s just your idea. It’s your perception or understanding of All That Is. It is not All That Is itself. So again, by inserting All That Is, we reduce the sentence to meaninglessness (reductio ad absurdum as they used to say in Latin).
    My god is the correct god => My All That Is is the correct All That Is
    Like the one above, this becomes nonsensical. How can there be a correct or right All That Is? All That Is is simply All That Is. It just is. It’s neither correct nor incorrect; it’s all of it.
    God will favor and reward me => All That Is will favor and reward me​
    More exclusiveness. I’m “in” and you’re “out”. I’m part of the “in” club, and you are not. This is a powerful delusion and one of the most dangerous religious beliefs. It underpins many of the following religious beliefs.


    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #2: My Religion is the Only True and Correct Religion

    The very word “religion” is derived from the Latin verb religare, meaning “to bind”. Thus, etymologically, religion describes the binding of oneself with God. Some people such as the founder of the Sufi tradition in the West, Hazrat Inayat Khan, have suggested that each and every human is a religion unto themselves, because of their unique and individualized relationship with the Infinite. (Sufism, by the way, is the Path of the Open Heart, and is inclusively open to anyone of any religion, and is not, as widely believed, a subset of Islam.) There cannot be one true religion, because religion itself is a belief system, a lens, a set of perceptions about what Life and God is. Most people adopt the religion they are born into through coincidence of birth. Life is about remembering and experiencing our own connection with the Infinite, not mentally adopting someone else’s belief system.


    The non-believer, infidel, kafir or heretic threatens the basis of the illusion. The dangerous religious belief, in response, is often to neutralize him in some way. Inquisition, anyone?

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #3: Non-Believers or Infidels are “Evil”
    Psychologically speaking, humans want to belong and to feel accepted. This primal need is exploited by many religions, and twisted into a compulsion to make themselves right and everyone else wrong. If you’re in the club, and your club is the true and correct one, then by definition, everyone else must be wrong – and sometimes evil too. The non-believer or heretic is not only an outsider, but also someone who doesn’t deserve full moral treatment, and often can be seen as less than human. History has shown us that just by thinking differently and independently, you frequently run the risk of being condemned and killed for your trouble.
    There are a plethora of examples of how people outside a certain religion are considered evil. Look at the dreaded Inquisition whose goal was to suppress heresy at any cost. More recently, documents have shown how British 3 year olds were told that non-Jews are “evil” in a Kindergarten worksheet handed out at ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools in north London. In the Torah, slaves taken from among outsiders don’t merit the same protections as Hebrew slaves. Islam has the concept of “dhimmitude” which is a set of rules to deal with non-Muslims (monotheists are more highly regarded than polytheists). You can check out these Bible quotes to see what Christianity thinks of non-believers. In the end, it is often simply too much for religions to tolerate the free-thinking non-believer, since he or she threatens the illusion and shows that people can be completely free, happy, kind and content outside of religion.


    The extra special chosen people: one of the most deceptive, self-congratulatory and dangerous religious beliefs.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #4: We Are The Chosen People
    The idea that “God” has a favorite set of “Chosen People” is another one of these silly yet extremely divisive and dangerous ideas that you find in numerous religions. It is a central tenet of Judaism that Jews are God’s chosen people. The Bible states that Christians are the chosen ones. In the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, there are exactly 144,000 places reserved in Heaven for the chosen people. Calvinism contains the concept of predestination which teaches that a certain special few (God’s elect) are to receive eternal life and salvation by grace, while the rest get eternal damnation for all their sins. In monotheistic religion in general, you are condemned to Hell, eternal damnation or some other kind of imaginary Doom for making the wrong decision in this life for not “believing” in the “official” way it is – according to the supposedly enlightened leaders of those organized religions.


    More dangerous religious beliefs: worshipping Jesus instead of following him creates more tension and separation.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #5: Jesus, Mohammad and Other Prophets Were a Special Kind of Human that You Can Never Be
    Many of the world’s main religions love to teach that there is something special or magical about their prophet, as opposed to other religions, spiritual paths and traditions, and also as opposed to YOU! This is another example showing that most organized religion is based on separation, not connectedness. Jesus is the ONLY son of God – you are not. The false notion is that all the prophets are not leaders you can emulate, but rather godly beings who you need to put on a pedestal and worship. You can never be as good as they were, because you’re just a dirty little sinner. All this, of course, is in direct contradiction to what Jesus actually said, if we are to believe the Gospel of John 14:12:
    “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.”
    Greater works than Jesus – I wonder how the Christian censors let that one through!


    Another one of those dangerous religious-beliefs, indeed: always focusing on the future.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #6: Sacrifice the Now for A Better Future
    Many religions achieve power and popularity through psychological trickery. One of the most effective ways to control people is to promise them a better future – especially if that future is an afterlife about which it is difficult to prove anything. By making elaborate and grandiose promises of Heaven-like afterlives – whether they be full of angels, milk and honey, or hundreds of virgins – you can fool people into accepting horrendous conditions in their current lives. You can also stifle people’s motivation to do anything constructive about their situation now. After all, if this life is nothing compared to the pending glorious afterlife, why bother?
    Of course, the tendency to deny the (real) now and live in the (imagined and not yet real) future is ego-driven dysfunction and insanity. Eckhart Tolle in The Power of Now sums it up best:
    “(The ego) constantly projects itself into the future to ensure its continued survival and to seek some kind of release or fulfillment there. It says: “One day, when this, that, or the other happens, I am going to be okay, happy, at peace.” Even when the ego seems to be concerned with the present, it is not the present that it sees: It misperceives it completely because it looks at it through the eyes of the past. Or it reduces the present to a means to an end, an end that always lies in the mind-projected future. Observe your mind and you’ll see that this is how it works.
    The present moment holds the key to liberation.”
    There is a place in life for thoughtful planning and long-term thinking, however this is not the issue here. The problem is compulsive thinking and too much attention focused on the past and future, rather than an embracing of the now and the present moment – which is all you truly have anyway.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #7: Obey Us or Go to Hell
    Invented afterlife notions provide further fodder for the cunning to exploit the foolish. Bribing people with eternal life works well, but conversely, you can also blackmail people with eternal damnation. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and others have all concocted ideas of a fire-and-brimstone Hell-like afterlife, replete with pain, never-ending torture and demons. As Valerie Tarico writes:
    “Most Buddhists see hell as a metaphor, a journey into the evil inside the self, but the descriptions of torturing monsters and levels of hell can be quite explicit. Likewise, many Muslims and Christians hasten to assure that it is a real place, full of fire and the anguish of non-believers. Some Christians have gone so far as to insist that the screams of the damned can be heard from the center of the Earth or that observing their anguish from afar will be one of the pleasures of paradise.”


    The Indulgence System: based on the dangerous religious beliefs that a middleman priest can absolve you of your sins.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #8: The Indulgence System (Paying for the Right to Do Evil)
    Organized religions such as Catholicism championed an ingenious business model during the Middle Ages, which still persists in various forms to this day. It was the Indulgence System. Indulgences were the right to do evil. If you have the say over what God allows or not, why not make some money off it? As the website Grand Design Exposed states:
    “Apparently, the Indulgence System had been a Church tradition since Pope Leo III had begun granting them in the year 800, payable in the money coined by Pope Adrian I in 780 … Indulgences were floated on the Church’s credibility, rather like government bonds are issued on the credibility of states today. In 1491, for example, Innocent VII granted the 20-year Butterbriefe indulgence, by which Germans could pay 1/20th of a guilder for the annual privilege of eating dairy products even while meriting from fasting. The proceeds of the Butterbriefe went to build a bridge at Torgau. Rome’s indulgence economy was as extensive as America’s income tax system today. And it was every bit as fueled by the people’s trembling compliance, voluntarily, to a presumption of liability.”
    In 1515 Pope Leo X (whose father happened to be the great Florentine banker Lorenzo de’Medici, of the Venetian Black Nobility) issued a Bull of Indulgence, which authorized a whole array of indulgences:
    “(Leo) authoriz(ed) letters of safe conduct to Paradise and pardons for every evil imaginable, from a 25-cent purgatory release (the dead left purgatory the instant one’s coins hit the bottom of the indulgence-salesman’s bucket) to a license so potent that it would excuse someone who had raped the Virgin Mary. For the payment of four ducats, one could be forgiven for murdering one’s father. Sorcery was pardoned for 6 ducats. For robbing a church, the law could be relaxed for only 9 ducats. Sodomy was pardoned for 12 ducats. Half the revenues from Leo’s indulgence went to a fund for the building of St. Peter’s Cathedral, and the other half to paying 40% interest rates on bank loans subsidizing the magnificent works of art and architecture with which His Holiness was establishing Rome as the cultural capital of the Renaissance.”
    What a profitable racket! It’s business as usual for the Vatican, who still use the Indulgence System to manipulate people, such as this absurd attempt to get Pope Francis more Twitter followers


    More dangerous religious beliefs: the wages of sin is death. Utter nonsense – literally.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #9: Christ Died to Pay for Our Sins
    This one is obviously from Christianity, but you may find parallels in other religious doctrines. This one requires a serious perversion of reasonable and clear thinking. Christian doctrine declares something like this:
    “We celebrate Christ’s death, because it is only through his death and atoning sacrifice that we are reconciled to God and have forgiveness of sin. Every time we partake of the communion of the bread and cup, we are celebrating the death that purchased our redemption.”
    This is utter nonsense – and I mean that literally. It is non-sense. It is completely non-sensical. It requires a suspension of ordinary logic and the adoption of a twisted way of thinking to even try to turn this idea into something resembling a cohesive notion.
    First of all, why focus on the bloody and gruesome death of Jesus, when the point of his life was his ability to love unconditionally? This is twisted perversion by turning black into white, reminiscent of Satanism, as covered in the article Are Parts of Organized Religion Satanic?
    Secondly, how can a person dying 2000 years ago “pay” for our “sins”? Your own actions, thoughts, feelings and state of being determine your outcome – period. Only you can “redeem” yourself – by forgiving yourself, apologizing to another, and changing your behavior going forward. What Jesus did or didn’t do a long time ago can’t absolve you from the fundamental truth that you are the creator of your own life and destiny. There is nothing to “pay” for, because a real God of Love doesn’t require humans to prostrate down before it and sacrifice themselves.
    The word “sin”, by the way, can be better translated as “to miss the mark” or to err, which strips it of all its moral guilt-laden overtones the Catholic Church loves to use on its followers. If you merely make a mistake or error, which every single human does all the time, depending on whom it affected and how it affected them, there may not be anything to “pay” at all for it.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #10: Holy Wars
    Many of history’s wars and genocides have been fueled by dangerous religious beliefs, including the Christian crusades of the Middle Ages and the many bloody battles recounted in the texts of the Koran and Torah. Even within religious sects there can be a holy war, as can be seen with the constant in-fighting between Sunni and Shia Muslims. Sadly, today we have still not as a species risen above the delusion that war and mass murder can be holy, noble, pious and “the will of God” … although the will of God always seems to be interpreted for us by learned religious scholars and leaders whose word is untouchable. The recent rise of ISIS shows that religion can still be used by some to justify heinous crimes such as large-scale theft (of oil and land), rape and murder.


    The only thing that really matters with any religion: living from the heart and being kind.

    Conclusion: Religion is Beset With Madness
    These 10 dangerous religious beliefs just go to show that most organized religion has long been infected with madness and insanity. The history of religion shows that, overall, it is a highly distorted lens through which to see the world, whatever good it may bring to individual cases. Ultimately, humanity is entering a new era of consciousness where religion and priestly middlemen are no longer necessary. If religion is to survive going forward, it needs to drop all its dangerous religious beliefs, rigid doctrine, stale dogma, sense of superiority and outdated notions in a big hurry – before it becomes an antiquated irrelevance.
     
    R

    ruins

    Member
    The Top 10 Most Restrictive, False and Dangerous Religious Beliefs
    The Top 10 Most Restrictive, False and Dangerous Religious Beliefs



    The suffering perpetrated by religion (which continues to this day) stems from restrictive, false and dangerous religious beliefs – based on separation.

    Restrictive, false and dangerous religious beliefs
    abound throughout the world, and dominate the mainstream teachings of organized religion. Religion has caused a lot of unnecessary pain to mankind, despite whatever truth and good intentions it has. Some of these dangerous religious beliefs fool you into thinking you can out-source your morality, ethics or spirituality to some external organization. Others prevent you from taking full responsibility for yourself and your actions, thus hindering you from stepping fully into your power. Still others goad you into a false sense of security where there is none. All of them limit you and the deeper realization of Who You Are. Additionally, all of them stem from the single fundamental delusion of separateness, i.e. that we are discrete and separate beings, that some people are better than others and that there is somewhere better you need to get to. An idea based on separateness leads to judgment and exclusion, and can never be as true and powerful as one based on connectedness. All of the following religious beliefs are disempowering obstacles in the way of true freedom.


    Believing Silly Things Can Lead to Dangerous Consequences
    You may think that believing silly things is harmless. They can be, but they can also have serious ramifications. Remember Voltaire’s quote in the image to the left: “those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” If you can convince people to follow you or your group, and that they will get rewarded in some way by doing this (e.g. get to Heaven, get fame, money, sex, knowledge or power, receive safety and security, etc.), you are well on your way to getting them to commit acts of unconsciousness. Next comes tests of loyalty: will they lie for you? Will they cover up for you? Will they cheat for you? Will they die or kill for you? Believing silly, foolish or absurd ideas can have horrible consequences. If you can’t tell truth from lies, you pave the way for corrupt people to seize power, manipulate you with deceptive propaganda and establish tyranny. How many people have murdered in the name of God or committed heinous crimes in the name of religion, all stemming from their dangerous religious beliefs?

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #1: God is on My Side
    So many people get stumped on this one, and all sorts of horrendous division, judgement, condemnation, war and bloodshed has occurred over it. It takes on various forms: god is on my side (not yours); my god is better than your god; my god is the correct god (not yours); god will favor and reward me (not you), etc.
    So much of it stems from a false idea of what “God” is. Whatever you think God is, it’s important to realize that the “kingdom of God” or your own divinity is within you – not in buildings of wood and stone. Even Jesus confirmed this spiritual truth when he said (in various places in the Bible and in the missing Gospel of Thomas from the Nag Hammadi) that if you “split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone and you will find me.”
    Let’s reduce it to the basics. What is God? For most people, it’s their idea of the infinite being, the creator of all. Another way of saying this is that God = All That Is. If we literally insert the phrase “All That Is” into sentences that contain “God”, look at the results we get:
    God is on my side => All That Is is on my side​
    How exactly can All That Is be on your side? How can All That Is have any sides? If it did have sides, how could it not be on all sides at the same time? After all, it includes everything.
    My god is better than your god => My All That Is is better than your All That Is
    How can you have my or your All That Is? How can you possess All That Is? It’s everything, so it belongs equally to everyone, if it is even able to be possessed. Now, you may have an idea of All That Is, which is your idea to hold onto, but that’s just your idea. It’s your perception or understanding of All That Is. It is not All That Is itself. So again, by inserting All That Is, we reduce the sentence to meaninglessness (reductio ad absurdum as they used to say in Latin).
    My god is the correct god => My All That Is is the correct All That Is
    Like the one above, this becomes nonsensical. How can there be a correct or right All That Is? All That Is is simply All That Is. It just is. It’s neither correct nor incorrect; it’s all of it.
    God will favor and reward me => All That Is will favor and reward me​
    More exclusiveness. I’m “in” and you’re “out”. I’m part of the “in” club, and you are not. This is a powerful delusion and one of the most dangerous religious beliefs. It underpins many of the following religious beliefs.


    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #2: My Religion is the Only True and Correct Religion

    The very word “religion” is derived from the Latin verb religare, meaning “to bind”. Thus, etymologically, religion describes the binding of oneself with God. Some people such as the founder of the Sufi tradition in the West, Hazrat Inayat Khan, have suggested that each and every human is a religion unto themselves, because of their unique and individualized relationship with the Infinite. (Sufism, by the way, is the Path of the Open Heart, and is inclusively open to anyone of any religion, and is not, as widely believed, a subset of Islam.) There cannot be one true religion, because religion itself is a belief system, a lens, a set of perceptions about what Life and God is. Most people adopt the religion they are born into through coincidence of birth. Life is about remembering and experiencing our own connection with the Infinite, not mentally adopting someone else’s belief system.


    The non-believer, infidel, kafir or heretic threatens the basis of the illusion. The dangerous religious belief, in response, is often to neutralize him in some way. Inquisition, anyone?

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #3: Non-Believers or Infidels are “Evil”
    Psychologically speaking, humans want to belong and to feel accepted. This primal need is exploited by many religions, and twisted into a compulsion to make themselves right and everyone else wrong. If you’re in the club, and your club is the true and correct one, then by definition, everyone else must be wrong – and sometimes evil too. The non-believer or heretic is not only an outsider, but also someone who doesn’t deserve full moral treatment, and often can be seen as less than human. History has shown us that just by thinking differently and independently, you frequently run the risk of being condemned and killed for your trouble.
    There are a plethora of examples of how people outside a certain religion are considered evil. Look at the dreaded Inquisition whose goal was to suppress heresy at any cost. More recently, documents have shown how British 3 year olds were told that non-Jews are “evil” in a Kindergarten worksheet handed out at ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools in north London. In the Torah, slaves taken from among outsiders don’t merit the same protections as Hebrew slaves. Islam has the concept of “dhimmitude” which is a set of rules to deal with non-Muslims (monotheists are more highly regarded than polytheists). You can check out these Bible quotes to see what Christianity thinks of non-believers. In the end, it is often simply too much for religions to tolerate the free-thinking non-believer, since he or she threatens the illusion and shows that people can be completely free, happy, kind and content outside of religion.


    The extra special chosen people: one of the most deceptive, self-congratulatory and dangerous religious beliefs.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #4: We Are The Chosen People
    The idea that “God” has a favorite set of “Chosen People” is another one of these silly yet extremely divisive and dangerous ideas that you find in numerous religions. It is a central tenet of Judaism that Jews are God’s chosen people. The Bible states that Christians are the chosen ones. In the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, there are exactly 144,000 places reserved in Heaven for the chosen people. Calvinism contains the concept of predestination which teaches that a certain special few (God’s elect) are to receive eternal life and salvation by grace, while the rest get eternal damnation for all their sins. In monotheistic religion in general, you are condemned to Hell, eternal damnation or some other kind of imaginary Doom for making the wrong decision in this life for not “believing” in the “official” way it is – according to the supposedly enlightened leaders of those organized religions.


    More dangerous religious beliefs: worshipping Jesus instead of following him creates more tension and separation.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #5: Jesus, Mohammad and Other Prophets Were a Special Kind of Human that You Can Never Be
    Many of the world’s main religions love to teach that there is something special or magical about their prophet, as opposed to other religions, spiritual paths and traditions, and also as opposed to YOU! This is another example showing that most organized religion is based on separation, not connectedness. Jesus is the ONLY son of God – you are not. The false notion is that all the prophets are not leaders you can emulate, but rather godly beings who you need to put on a pedestal and worship. You can never be as good as they were, because you’re just a dirty little sinner. All this, of course, is in direct contradiction to what Jesus actually said, if we are to believe the Gospel of John 14:12:
    “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.”
    Greater works than Jesus – I wonder how the Christian censors let that one through!


    Another one of those dangerous religious-beliefs, indeed: always focusing on the future.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #6: Sacrifice the Now for A Better Future
    Many religions achieve power and popularity through psychological trickery. One of the most effective ways to control people is to promise them a better future – especially if that future is an afterlife about which it is difficult to prove anything. By making elaborate and grandiose promises of Heaven-like afterlives – whether they be full of angels, milk and honey, or hundreds of virgins – you can fool people into accepting horrendous conditions in their current lives. You can also stifle people’s motivation to do anything constructive about their situation now. After all, if this life is nothing compared to the pending glorious afterlife, why bother?
    Of course, the tendency to deny the (real) now and live in the (imagined and not yet real) future is ego-driven dysfunction and insanity. Eckhart Tolle in The Power of Now sums it up best:
    “(The ego) constantly projects itself into the future to ensure its continued survival and to seek some kind of release or fulfillment there. It says: “One day, when this, that, or the other happens, I am going to be okay, happy, at peace.” Even when the ego seems to be concerned with the present, it is not the present that it sees: It misperceives it completely because it looks at it through the eyes of the past. Or it reduces the present to a means to an end, an end that always lies in the mind-projected future. Observe your mind and you’ll see that this is how it works.
    The present moment holds the key to liberation.”
    There is a place in life for thoughtful planning and long-term thinking, however this is not the issue here. The problem is compulsive thinking and too much attention focused on the past and future, rather than an embracing of the now and the present moment – which is all you truly have anyway.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #7: Obey Us or Go to Hell
    Invented afterlife notions provide further fodder for the cunning to exploit the foolish. Bribing people with eternal life works well, but conversely, you can also blackmail people with eternal damnation. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and others have all concocted ideas of a fire-and-brimstone Hell-like afterlife, replete with pain, never-ending torture and demons. As Valerie Tarico writes:
    “Most Buddhists see hell as a metaphor, a journey into the evil inside the self, but the descriptions of torturing monsters and levels of hell can be quite explicit. Likewise, many Muslims and Christians hasten to assure that it is a real place, full of fire and the anguish of non-believers. Some Christians have gone so far as to insist that the screams of the damned can be heard from the center of the Earth or that observing their anguish from afar will be one of the pleasures of paradise.”


    The Indulgence System: based on the dangerous religious beliefs that a middleman priest can absolve you of your sins.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #8: The Indulgence System (Paying for the Right to Do Evil)
    Organized religions such as Catholicism championed an ingenious business model during the Middle Ages, which still persists in various forms to this day. It was the Indulgence System. Indulgences were the right to do evil. If you have the say over what God allows or not, why not make some money off it? As the website Grand Design Exposed states:
    “Apparently, the Indulgence System had been a Church tradition since Pope Leo III had begun granting them in the year 800, payable in the money coined by Pope Adrian I in 780 … Indulgences were floated on the Church’s credibility, rather like government bonds are issued on the credibility of states today. In 1491, for example, Innocent VII granted the 20-year Butterbriefe indulgence, by which Germans could pay 1/20th of a guilder for the annual privilege of eating dairy products even while meriting from fasting. The proceeds of the Butterbriefe went to build a bridge at Torgau. Rome’s indulgence economy was as extensive as America’s income tax system today. And it was every bit as fueled by the people’s trembling compliance, voluntarily, to a presumption of liability.”
    In 1515 Pope Leo X (whose father happened to be the great Florentine banker Lorenzo de’Medici, of the Venetian Black Nobility) issued a Bull of Indulgence, which authorized a whole array of indulgences:
    “(Leo) authoriz(ed) letters of safe conduct to Paradise and pardons for every evil imaginable, from a 25-cent purgatory release (the dead left purgatory the instant one’s coins hit the bottom of the indulgence-salesman’s bucket) to a license so potent that it would excuse someone who had raped the Virgin Mary. For the payment of four ducats, one could be forgiven for murdering one’s father. Sorcery was pardoned for 6 ducats. For robbing a church, the law could be relaxed for only 9 ducats. Sodomy was pardoned for 12 ducats. Half the revenues from Leo’s indulgence went to a fund for the building of St. Peter’s Cathedral, and the other half to paying 40% interest rates on bank loans subsidizing the magnificent works of art and architecture with which His Holiness was establishing Rome as the cultural capital of the Renaissance.”
    What a profitable racket! It’s business as usual for the Vatican, who still use the Indulgence System to manipulate people, such as this absurd attempt to get Pope Francis more Twitter followers


    More dangerous religious beliefs: the wages of sin is death. Utter nonsense – literally.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #9: Christ Died to Pay for Our Sins
    This one is obviously from Christianity, but you may find parallels in other religious doctrines. This one requires a serious perversion of reasonable and clear thinking. Christian doctrine declares something like this:
    “We celebrate Christ’s death, because it is only through his death and atoning sacrifice that we are reconciled to God and have forgiveness of sin. Every time we partake of the communion of the bread and cup, we are celebrating the death that purchased our redemption.”
    This is utter nonsense – and I mean that literally. It is non-sense. It is completely non-sensical. It requires a suspension of ordinary logic and the adoption of a twisted way of thinking to even try to turn this idea into something resembling a cohesive notion.
    First of all, why focus on the bloody and gruesome death of Jesus, when the point of his life was his ability to love unconditionally? This is twisted perversion by turning black into white, reminiscent of Satanism, as covered in the article Are Parts of Organized Religion Satanic?
    Secondly, how can a person dying 2000 years ago “pay” for our “sins”? Your own actions, thoughts, feelings and state of being determine your outcome – period. Only you can “redeem” yourself – by forgiving yourself, apologizing to another, and changing your behavior going forward. What Jesus did or didn’t do a long time ago can’t absolve you from the fundamental truth that you are the creator of your own life and destiny. There is nothing to “pay” for, because a real God of Love doesn’t require humans to prostrate down before it and sacrifice themselves.
    The word “sin”, by the way, can be better translated as “to miss the mark” or to err, which strips it of all its moral guilt-laden overtones the Catholic Church loves to use on its followers. If you merely make a mistake or error, which every single human does all the time, depending on whom it affected and how it affected them, there may not be anything to “pay” at all for it.

    Dangerous Religious Beliefs #10: Holy Wars
    Many of history’s wars and genocides have been fueled by dangerous religious beliefs, including the Christian crusades of the Middle Ages and the many bloody battles recounted in the texts of the Koran and Torah. Even within religious sects there can be a holy war, as can be seen with the constant in-fighting between Sunni and Shia Muslims. Sadly, today we have still not as a species risen above the delusion that war and mass murder can be holy, noble, pious and “the will of God” … although the will of God always seems to be interpreted for us by learned religious scholars and leaders whose word is untouchable. The recent rise of ISIS shows that religion can still be used by some to justify heinous crimes such as large-scale theft (of oil and land), rape and murder.


    The only thing that really matters with any religion: living from the heart and being kind.

    Conclusion: Religion is Beset With Madness
    These 10 dangerous religious beliefs just go to show that most organized religion has long been infected with madness and insanity. The history of religion shows that, overall, it is a highly distorted lens through which to see the world, whatever good it may bring to individual cases. Ultimately, humanity is entering a new era of consciousness where religion and priestly middlemen are no longer necessary. If religion is to survive going forward, it needs to drop all its dangerous religious beliefs, rigid doctrine, stale dogma, sense of superiority and outdated notions in a big hurry – before it becomes an antiquated irrelevance.
    Dangerous Belief #11: Killing Giordano Bruno

    Giordano, a beacon of science, was set out to groundbreaking discoveries. Using magic and mysticism, he was on the brink of discovering the theory of relativity; centuries before Einstein. Then, using some plagiarism from his contemporaries, he was close to creating the first smartphone. Yet, in the middle of the night, the Evil Church, scheming to kill arguably the most important scientist, magician, and plagiarism guru that has ever lived, sent out its inquisitors to kill Giordano. By doing so, it delayed human progress by centuries. Smartphones would have been around since the early 1700s, humans would have gone to Saturn in the 1750s, and relativity would have been formalized in the 1600s. Alas, the Inquisition gnashed Giordano's teeth in a lake of fire and Christ's vicars on Earth triumphed over science by killing the one man who was destined to make leaps forward in scientific progress.
     
    R

    Ralph N

    Active Member
    Giordano Bruno made the same realization centuries ago, yet the Church killed him.
    Thats why I say always to put a line between Jesus and the Church.. yes the HOLY POLITICIANS of the Church murdered him, but would Jesus do that?!... Jesus forgave loved... nehna e3din nekol khara w nehbela...
     
    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Active Member
    Thats why I say always to put a line between Jesus and the Church.. yes the HOLY POLITICIANS of the Church murdered him, but would Jesus do that?!... Jesus forgave loved... nehna e3din nekol khara w nehbela...
    Ephesians 2:8-9
    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    John 3:18
    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

    John 3:36
    "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

    Matthew 13:41-42
    “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

    Revelation 21:6-8
    "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

    Romans 3:22
    Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Ephesians 2:8-9
    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    John 3:18
    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

    John 3:36
    "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

    Matthew 13:41-42
    “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

    Revelation 21:6-8
    "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

    Romans 3:22
    Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    it is weird to see someone exhibiting this level of animosity towards Christ as such. usually being against Christ manifests itself differently in people. you on the other hand exhibit raw attacks of animalistic nature, closer to a first reaction animal instincts than to a well thought up process. you are one of very few i have encountered who exhibit such a deep hatred for Christ, and you never really participate in anything other than attacking Jesus.. that really puts you in a different category all together. quite an unholy nature you are exhibiting here.
     
    Last edited:
    L

    Lemon

    Well-Known Member
    it is weird to see someone exhibiting this level of animosity towards Christ as such. usually being against Christ manifests itself differently in people. you on the other hand exhibit raw attacks of animalistic nature, closer to a first reaction animal instincts than to a well thought up process. you are one of very few i have encountered who exhibit such a deep hatred for Christ, and you never really participate in anything other than attacking Jesus.. that really puts you in a different category all together. quite an unholy nature you are exhibiting here.
    All he did was quote the bible... :shifty:
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    All he did was quote the bible... :shifty:
    yes, all he did was quote the bible. that is pretty obvious.

    what is it you did though?

    what exactly is the purpose of your witted comment given you are no doubt familiar with the long history of our friend quoting the bible? are there any honorable motivation for your comment that i am failing to grasp?
     
    R

    ruins

    Member
    Ephesians 2:8-9
    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    John 3:18
    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

    John 3:36
    "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

    Matthew 13:41-42
    “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

    Revelation 21:6-8
    "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

    Romans 3:22
    Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Church!
     
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