Deep into Atheism

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  • ostwind

    ostwind

    Well-Known Member
    Honestly, this makes no sense to me, I mean giving these examples is just for the sake of bashing.
    I'll talk about the Christian ones since I am a Christian myself, these are all traditions created by us and has no relation to what the bible says.
    I can find a million example and show you how weird/bad atheists are but in reality, not all of them are like this. This applies to every sect/religion etc..
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    Honestly, this makes no sense to me, I mean giving these examples is just for the sake of bashing.
    I'll talk about the Christian ones since I am a Christian myself, these are all traditions created by us and has no relation to what the bible says.
    I can find a million example and show you how weird/bad atheists are but in reality, not all of them are like this. This applies to every sect/religion etc..
    Atheism is not an ideology with clear dogma, the analogy doesnt work
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Atheism is not an ideology with clear dogma, the analogy doesnt work
    while orphan agnosticism may pass as non dogmatic - and i say orphan because there is no such thing as real agnostics - the same cannot be said about atheism. it is a belief system, and quite a dogmatic one for that matter, and it has plenty of worshipers repeating mantras without understanding them, and most of them are on a holy war. i think this much we can both agree on.
     
    R

    ruins

    Member
    Atheism is not an ideology with clear dogma, the analogy doesnt work
    Atheism (modern one at least) has a very well-defined dogma, some of its tenets include:
    - Analogy to Zeus and Santa Klaus and Flying Spaghetti monster as the basis for rejecting any other God.
    - Science explains everything and if it can't be explained by science, that is because science is not yet complete. Everything else is wishful thinking and delusion.
    - Life is random, has no purpose, evolved by chance, will end by chance.
    - Abrahamic religions are myths written by old men in the bronze age.
    - Religion led to all of the atrocities that happened from 10,000 B.C. up until and including 2019 A.D. Religion is the reason behind all socio-economic problems experienced by hunter gatherers and by modern humans. If it weren't for religion, people would have been free, advanced, immortal, sympathetic, loving each other. Minorities would not been persecuted, women would have been at the head of 95% of countries, and life would have been utopic.
    - Theists are hallucinating and speak to imaginary friends *ha ha*.
    - A few excerpts from Dawkins "The God Delusion" as well as some well-known statements from Christoper Hitchens, to spice things up and give them more credibility.
    Of course, just like in other dogmatic religions, some atheists may deviate slightly from the above, but in principle the core atheists are covered.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    If it weren't for religion, people would have been free, advanced, immortal, sympathetic, loving each other.
    People who seriously believe this, have never read the comment section of any Youtube video.
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Atheism (modern one at least) has a very well-defined dogma, some of its tenets include:
    - Analogy to Zeus and Santa Klaus and Flying Spaghetti monster as the basis for rejecting any other God.
    - Science explains everything and if it can't be explained by science, that is because science is not yet complete. Everything else is wishful thinking and delusion.
    - Life is random, has no purpose, evolved by chance, will end by chance.
    - Abrahamic religions are myths written by old men in the bronze age.
    - Religion led to all of the atrocities that happened from 10,000 B.C. up until and including 2019 A.D. Religion is the reason behind all socio-economic problems experienced by hunter gatherers and by modern humans. If it weren't for religion, people would have been free, advanced, immortal, sympathetic, loving each other. Minorities would not been persecuted, women would have been at the head of 95% of countries, and life would have been utopic.
    - Theists are hallucinating and speak to imaginary friends *ha ha*.
    - A few excerpts from Dawkins "The God Delusion" as well as some well-known statements from Christoper Hitchens, to spice things up and give them more credibility.
    Of course, just like in other dogmatic religions, some atheists may deviate slightly from the above, but in principle the core atheists are covered.
    You sound exactly like a Muslim trying to explain the holy trinity. Cheer up, dude, life isn't that bad.
     
    ignis

    ignis

    New Member
    Atheism (modern one at least) has a very well-defined dogma, some of its tenets include:
    - Analogy to Zeus and Santa Klaus and Flying Spaghetti monster as the basis for rejecting any other God.
    - Science explains everything and if it can't be explained by science, that is because science is not yet complete. Everything else is wishful thinking and delusion.
    - Life is random, has no purpose, evolved by chance, will end by chance.
    - Abrahamic religions are myths written by old men in the bronze age.
    - Religion led to all of the atrocities that happened from 10,000 B.C. up until and including 2019 A.D. Religion is the reason behind all socio-economic problems experienced by hunter gatherers and by modern humans. If it weren't for religion, people would have been free, advanced, immortal, sympathetic, loving each other. Minorities would not been persecuted, women would have been at the head of 95% of countries, and life would have been utopic.
    - Theists are hallucinating and speak to imaginary friends *ha ha*.
    - A few excerpts from Dawkins "The God Delusion" as well as some well-known statements from Christoper Hitchens, to spice things up and give them more credibility.
    Of course, just like in other dogmatic religions, some atheists may deviate slightly from the above, but in principle the core atheists are covered.
    You forgot their devastating (actually: brain-dead) counter-argument (against a strawman) in the form of this feckless mantra: If everything has a cause, then what caused God?

    ------------
    ... a counter argument that is best illustrated in this photo:

    braindead.jpg
     
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    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Atheism (modern one at least) has a very well-defined dogma, some of its tenets include:
    - Analogy to Zeus and Santa Klaus and Flying Spaghetti monster as the basis for rejecting any other God.
    - Science explains everything and if it can't be explained by science, that is because science is not yet complete. Everything else is wishful thinking and delusion.
    - Life is random, has no purpose, evolved by chance, will end by chance.
    - Abrahamic religions are myths written by old men in the bronze age.
    - Religion led to all of the atrocities that happened from 10,000 B.C. up until and including 2019 A.D. Religion is the reason behind all socio-economic problems experienced by hunter gatherers and by modern humans. If it weren't for religion, people would have been free, advanced, immortal, sympathetic, loving each other. Minorities would not been persecuted, women would have been at the head of 95% of countries, and life would have been utopic.
    - Theists are hallucinating and speak to imaginary friends *ha ha*.
    - A few excerpts from Dawkins "The God Delusion" as well as some well-known statements from Christoper Hitchens, to spice things up and give them more credibility.
    Of course, just like in other dogmatic religions, some atheists may deviate slightly from the above, but in principle the core atheists are covered.
    we can add the sagan ritual, a morgan freeman worthy moment, music playing in the background, artificially colored space images, and sagan himself sprinkling some magic star dust over the mix.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    while orphan agnosticism may pass as non dogmatic - and i say orphan because there is no such thing as real agnostics - the same cannot be said about atheism. it is a belief system, and quite a dogmatic one for that matter, and it has plenty of worshipers repeating mantras without understanding them, and most of them are on a holy war. i think this much we can both agree on.
    Atheism (modern one at least) has a very well-defined dogma, some of its tenets include:
    - Analogy to Zeus and Santa Klaus and Flying Spaghetti monster as the basis for rejecting any other God.
    - Science explains everything and if it can't be explained by science, that is because science is not yet complete. Everything else is wishful thinking and delusion.
    - Life is random, has no purpose, evolved by chance, will end by chance.
    - Abrahamic religions are myths written by old men in the bronze age.
    - Religion led to all of the atrocities that happened from 10,000 B.C. up until and including 2019 A.D. Religion is the reason behind all socio-economic problems experienced by hunter gatherers and by modern humans. If it weren't for religion, people would have been free, advanced, immortal, sympathetic, loving each other. Minorities would not been persecuted, women would have been at the head of 95% of countries, and life would have been utopic.
    - Theists are hallucinating and speak to imaginary friends *ha ha*.
    - A few excerpts from Dawkins "The God Delusion" as well as some well-known statements from Christoper Hitchens, to spice things up and give them more credibility.
    Of course, just like in other dogmatic religions, some atheists may deviate slightly from the above, but in principle the core atheists are covered.
    You forgot their devastating (actually: brain-dead) counter-argument (against a strawman) in the form of this feckless mantra: If everything has a cause, then what caused God?

    ------------
    ... a counter argument that is best illustrated in this photo:

    View attachment 12144
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
    we can add the sagan ritual, a morgan freeman worthy moment, music playing in the background, artificially colored space images, and sagan himself sprinkling some magic star dust over the mix.
    All these are personal observations you made from people you encountered or watched videos about. But in no way is it organized or dogmatic to be compared to religions.
    My initial point stands.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    All these are personal observations you made from people you encountered or watched videos about. But in no way is it organized or dogmatic to be compared to religions.
    My initial point stands.
    is it not organized? i wonder, because the majority of atheists seem to be singing to the same tune. is that not how hymns are made?

    but then behavioral patterns have a life of their own. they develop and flourish in the group all while being unintended and unbeknownst to the individual. the end result is nothing short of a systematic dogmatic ideology that governs the group thinking. faith is not simply about whether or not God exists, it is also about the perception and the perspective of the world that ensues, this is the bubble inside which the dogmas are born, and as far as that is concerned, atheism, like all other belief systems, creates a similar bubble where dogmas are born and rituals are practiced, albeit using slightly different pedestals.

    you don't believe me? try rereading the above with the voice of carl sagan in your mind, with photos of galaxies moving slightly across your screen, and a sinister yet easy music playing in the background. or you can simply reexamine the first post in this thread :p
     
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    ignis

    ignis

    New Member
    All these are personal observations you made from people you encountered or watched videos about. But in no way is it organized or dogmatic to be compared to religions.
    My initial point stands.
    Can you refer us to the different kind of atheism that you claim to exist (one where the caricature we're drawing here doesn't apply)?
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Do theists in this thread consider abstinence a form of sex position?
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Can you refer us to the different kind of atheism that you claim to exist (one where the caricature we're drawing here doesn't apply)?
    It is unfortunate that throughout the years and decades past, atheists caricaturized religion to the point that now you're trying to use the same kind of argument. Kind of like giving atheists a taste of their own medicine. But it's sadly not working with you.
     
    ignis

    ignis

    New Member
    It is unfortunate that throughout the years and decades past, atheists caricaturized religion to the point that now you're trying to use the same kind of argument. Kind of like giving atheists a taste of their own medicine. But it's sadly not working with you.
    Except that your (collective 'your') caricatures of religion, of Christianity in particular, are all false ones (targeting strawman versions instead of the actual material). While on the other hand the theists' caricatures of atheists and atheism most often happen to actually be real and valid arguments in themselves (which atheists spend their time addressing and caricaturing a strawman version of).
    ------

    Do theists in this thread consider abstinence a form of sex position?
    The atheists' response to atheism being just another religious position, in the form of a rhetorical question "Do theists consider abstinence a form of sex position?" should too make its way to @ruins ' list above. The analogy fails the atheists' purpose when atheism itself is a form of 'sex position' rather than 'abstinence' when by 'sex position' we mean a metaphysical (counter) claim/position/worldview (which is what atheism is).
    ------

    There's also their "one god further" objection in the form of the one liner "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" which simply presupposes (a strawman version of), rather than actually tackling, their opponent's view of god / their opponent's dismissal of all the other possible gods.

    There's also the already mentioned evidence-shoehorning mantra "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" which becomes a burden on truth and truth seeking when it is used for cherry-picking the evidence (the type of) as to fit a pre-held hypothesis in place of (rather than with) checking whether the hypothesis accounts for and is explained by all the (types of) evidence at hand. In the context of the atheists' position, their task is to demonstrate that atheism best explains or does account for all of existence.
     
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    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    is it not organized? i wonder, because the majority of atheists seem to be singing to the same tune. is that not how hymns are made?
    I really dont get you, why are you comparing a system of belief/philosofy based on observations that are everchanging variables, to a system of faith based on scriptures and clear strict rigid dogma that is constant throughout time. Your hymns in that context are much more perrenial.

    but then behavioral patterns have a life of their own. they develop and flourish in the group all while being unintended and unbeknownst to the individual. the end result is nothing short of a systematic dogmatic ideology that governs the group thinking. faith is not simply about whether or not God exists, it is also about the perception and the perspective of the world that ensues, this is the bubble inside which the dogmas are born, and as far as that is concerned, atheism, like all other belief systems, creates a similar bubble where dogmas are born and rituals are practiced, albeit using slightly different pedestals.
    Behavioral patterns are just that, societal patterns where mob mentality prevails over individual critical thinking. It is not limited to theists nor atheists.
    Sure bubbles can form, fanbois can go on a proselyting rampage but it is mere individual steps. But there is no substance behind it, no clear guidelines, no canon rules, and most importantly no backing bureaucratic structure.
    Also u talk about rituals, can you decribe us a ritual for dawkins worshippers? I’d be really curious what that entails :p

    you don't believe me? try rereading the above with the voice of carl sagan in your mind, with photos of galaxies moving slightly across your screen, and a sinister yet easy music playing in the background. or you can simply reexamine the first post in this thread:p
    Sagan has inspired countless people and broadened their horizon and fed their scientific curiosity and probably through his words many a geek was born instead of another finance/marketing 9/5 drone who has bettered your daily life in ways you cant imagine.

    Give sagan some credit man :)

    As for the first post, well u wrote it with your own bias and want people to reply according to a biased premise.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    There's also their "one god further" objection in the form of the one liner "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" which simply presupposes (a strawman version of), rather than actually tackling, their opponent's view of god / their opponent's dismissal of all the other possible gods.
    Well do you? Why is shiva not as relevant as allah or god?
    I really dont get theists.. your one way road to the truth blinds you so that merely saying that you might be/ probably are wrong bewilders you.

    You want us to believe in a god, that you dont even know what’s his nature.
    At the end of the day, the universe as we know it today, does not need this god to function. Nor does it need us. So why make such a big fuss about it?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I really dont get you, why are you comparing a system of belief/philosofy based on observations that are everchanging variables, to a system of faith based on scriptures and clear strict rigid dogma that is constant throughout time.
    that is a misrepresentation. both systems of beliefs are based on cumulative knowledge systems and evolving theological and philosophical perspectives. the perception that religion is stuck in the single time frame of revelation is one that strikes both camps though; some religions adopt this rigid stance, and some atheists attempt to impose that stance on all theism by generalizing that erroneous perception.
    Your hymns in that context are much more perrenial.
    that is simply because our system is based on cumulative knowledge rather than floating independently of the origin. therefore when we postulate something new, it is based not on our instantaneous whim du jour, but rather on the established and well studies observations layered across long centuries, one layer of truth at a time. that is how human knowledge advances while remaining correct and true.
    Behavioral patterns are just that, societal patterns where mob mentality prevails over individual critical thinking. It is not limited to theists nor atheists.
    yes, but behavioral patterns are nothing short of practiced rituals. that is why you can directly spot the difference between the repetition of mantras and between thoughtful arguments. not that mantras could not be a parroted repetition of a thoughtful argument, but with mantras there is no room for dialogue, let alone for the evolution of the argument and the widening of the uncovered truth.
    Sure bubbles can form, fanbois can go on a proselyting rampage but it is mere individual steps. But there is no substance behind it, no clear guidelines, no canon rules, and most importantly no backing bureaucratic structure.
    that is neither good or bad, it depends on the ideas that are being generated by the individual, however you can rest assured that the ideas, no matter how great how they are, will die out if not properly preserved and properly integrated into the collective memory of the masses, and for that you will need some kind of bureaucracy to ensure their survival.

    the relay of information is the highest uncovered purpose of existence. the font does not do i justice, but that is the most important statement you could ever encounter. every layer of being establishes one above it against the rule of entropy specifically to serve that purpose. what we call life is nothing but one layer at that service. and just like your cells create a conscious you, you and others collectively create a higher level of group consciousness of which you may not be aware.. where consciousness is defined as the articulated communication of truth.

    Also u talk about rituals, can you decribe us a ritual for dawkins worshippers? I’d be really curious what that entails :p
    you may not see it, but i have written poems about it :p

    the ritual is nothing short of a parade, in which everyone is marching.

    ** beyond the day ** *

    Soulless corpses denied but pain
    Crawling down the heart in vain,
    Unending flows of timeless eyes
    Darkened by marks of reprimanded lies!
    .
    Endless mourning of souls that fell,
    Devoted to walk their way towards hell!
    Clawing their flesh and keeping pace,
    To reach the beast deprived from grace...
    .
    Prolonged sobs and agonizing shrieks,
    Echoed afar in a haze of reeks.
    A day ago, a minute past,
    Delusions of lives to longer last,
    Crashed on the heart, the eternal flame,
    Of he who came for sins to blame,
    .
    And now the blood, the torch and chains,
    The unholy touch of infernal reigns,
    His armies roaring his nameless names
    The fallen beast those souls now claims
    .
    And far beyond the judgment day,
    To where a child was meant to lay,
    An empty cradle covered with white
    awaits the child born of light
    .
    baring the marks of an everlasting fight
    His mother drifts into the night,
    strides the path she vastly fears,
    The eternal pass towards burning tears

    * ** DARK ANGEL ** *

    Sagan has inspired countless people and broadened their horizon and fed their scientific curiosity and probably through his words many a geek was born instead of another finance/marketing 9/5 drone who has bettered your daily life in ways you cant imagine.
    he inspired countless people indeed and he also mislead many others by misrepresenting the fact that we live in a universe where matter is at the service of a truth and not the other way around. i would rather people do science because they genuinely thirst for truth and knowledge rather than doing science because they are blinded by the sprinkling star dust that has been thrown into their eyes with a pretense of a detached voice aiming to emotionally manipulate them.

    this is the truth. there are no colors in the universe. color is an information overlay that you brain translates a waveform into. everything out there is dark.

    stardust does not sprinkle, stars do not scintillate, galaxies do not vibrate with perplexing colors, there is no music playing in the emotionally manipulative background of sagan's youtube clips circulated by atheists. it is all an overlay of interpretative information projected by our brains. which is yet another evidence that information transcends the vessel of matter, sagan and other should recognize that and examine its consequences. if they are at the service of truth that is..

    Give sagan some credit man :)
    i give him credit where credit is due, and take it away from him where it is not.

    As for the first post, well u wrote it with your own bias and want people to reply according to a biased premise.
    if you read the 2619 posts that followed my first post, you will find that i am probably the most objective poster in this thread. (poem aside :p)
     
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