Informational Deep Into Christianity

Dark Angel

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
Nobody is saying that the phrase is a scienfic discovery, i.e. something we measure or attempt to prove or disprove. It's one of the major underpinnings of the scientific method itself. To call it an transgression against science is lucricruous and false, ask any scientist. And you say it can be riddled with counter-examples, yet you haven't given any. I urge you to study the topic more before attempting to embarrass yourself further.
no it is not one of the underpinning of the scientific method itself, it is as subjective as can be without any definition of the terms extraordinary or ordinary, it was revived by sagan solely for subjective reasons, and it is used almost exclusively by the neo-atheists community, ie the community that aggressively raises the flag of science without understanding the first thing about it, while annexing statements the caliber of stop embarrassing yourself further at the end of their fallacies to give the misguided that they know what they are talking about. in the double split experiment, which highlights how a conscious observer changes reality, and opens the gates wide for the role of awareness in quantum physics, the evidence is a coloration on a screen. will you refute the extraordinary claim because the evidence is very ordinary?
so you can rest assured, the statement is extremely subjective and unscientific. it is neither an underpinning, nor embarrassing to those who refute it, it is simply one of the pitiful catch phrases that the neo-atheists use when they cannot find the proper meme on google.
I don't believe any eye-witness testimony exists. The accounts of Jesus's life we have now are written long after his death, and edited so many times that while there are some aspects there that may trace back to eye-witnesses and real events, it's anyone's guess which parts are true and which are fabrication. Except, of course, the parts that are obviously fabricated because they involve supernatural phenomena.
So? I don't believe the supernatural parts of muhammed's life either.
except that:
  • the accounts exist.
  • they begin getting written less than 20 years after the resurrection.
  • they are not edited so many times and any changes are always pointed out and can be traced back to the many original greek manuscripts.
  • it is not anyones guess which parts are true or not.
all of that constitutes an excellent reference set by the standards historians apply.

no you can reject the supernatural all you want, many atheist scholars do. no one is shoving it down your throat. you however fail to perceive how supernatural what you call natural is. a bunch of atoms become a living being with consciousness, physical matter that follows precise mathematical laws, existence coming to be from nothing etc.. you reject the supernatural on the premise that you do not believe in miracles, while in reality everything around you is a miracle. the differences is that you, like many other neo-atheists, are unfortunately stuck on the surface and the first layer of what there is, and because you are incapable of going beyond that layer, you want everyone else to stay there with you.

I am not disputing this nor have I pretended to. Just because you call him "Christ" and Dynamite Joe calls him "a man from Judea" doesn't change a thing. What I am disputing, however, are specific parts of his life that are neither accepted by most historians, and which are likely to be near complete fabrications.
that is not what triggered the discussion. what triggered it was that your friend calls Him "(if he actually existed)" not a man from judea. well guess what? He actually existed. and your friend only began calling him a man from judea after i brought in the consensus of the historians and scholars, and he will come back in few weeks or months or whatever to do the same thing again, as this is not the first iteration, simply because there is no truth in him. and had you possessed any respect for truth, you would have described the point as it really is.

And here you go jumping from one topic to another again without addressing anything. Sure, I don't really have any desire to go "deep into Christianity" as the thread title suggests. But I can point out fallacies and untruths where I see them. Here, for example, you are quoting me in reference to the topic that faith is not provable by science. I have no problem with that, but it seems that you do, because you cling to the assertions and defend ignis's list of "historical facts" even though the list isn't even internally consistent, let alone agreed by most secular scholars.
so, hmmm i am jumping from one topic to another without addressing anything? really? i find this to be an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. all of that paragraph of yours is nothing but hollow conjectures. i have not defended anything or anyone, i pointed out to you that you that the terms contested and skeptical hold different meanings and you cannot use them interchangeably. and yet here we are, your uncanny ability to argue against trivialities is still manifesting itself unchecked. this is yet another trade mark of the neo-atheist.
I used the same definition that ignis's source meant, in context. Here it is:
"William Lane Craig does confirm Habermas recorded 1400 scholars (both skeptics and non-skeptics alike) whom 75% agree the tomb was empty"
So it doesn't refer to eyewitnesses, it refers to the alleged scholars being of that opinion. You are simply wrong on this point and have misunderstood what you are even arguing for.
lol you still do not get my friend, let me re explain it to you. your statement:
"Second, Habermas claims that there are skeptics among these scholars. I find that very hard to believe because he lists number 4, "the tomb was empty" as the most contested argument. But the list also includes a claim that "James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus". So are you saying that the scholars are more skeptical of the empty tomb, than about a resurrected Jesus? That's not believable at all."
is riddled with transitional fallacies, you are even starting from the wrong premise that scholars begin from an identical list as the one craig collected from their collective works, and you are making another fallacies going from that premise to the conclusion, by wrongly assuming that the most contested item should be the most skeptical one. and now you bring in the eye witnesses? lol honestly my friend, did you guys all go to the same school or something?
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  • Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Active Member
    that is a lie. the truth is that it is neither "So" nor "according to tradition". it is according to historians who date the Pauline letters. but it is expected that you would falsify such conjunction. and the question is why do you need to resort to such twisted and dishonest methods in arguments?

    more twisted lies. the truth is that some of the works have been questioned, based on style and wording, and the verdict is:

    Authorship of six of Paul the Apostle's letters has been questioned by a few scholars, according to E. P. Sanders.[10] The disputed ones are Epistle to the Ephesians, Epistle to the Colossians, Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, First Epistle to Timothy, Second Epistle to Timothy, and Epistle to Titus. Of these, the first three are sometimes referred to as "Deutero-Pauline letters", meaning "secondary letters of Paul". They internally claim to have been written by Paul, but a minority of modern writers dispute that assertion. Those known as the "Pastoral Epistles" (Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus) are regarded as pseudographs by a small minority, but the vast majority of scholars consider them genuine.[8]

    the only exception being the epistles to the hebrews, which has been attributed to probably a disciple of Paul, and it was addressed by origen of alexandria.

    The church father Origen of Alexandria rejected the Pauline authorship of Hebrews, instead asserting that, although the ideas expressed in the letter were genuinely Pauline, the letter itself had actually been written by someone else.[8] Most modern scholars generally agree that Hebrews was not written by the apostle Paul. Various other possible authorships have been suggested.[9]

    halla2 it is understandable your personal anger is directed towards the canonical books because that is all you see, and because you think that is all we have, but like always my friend, you are wrong.

    what you fail to understand is that the huge number of original greek manuscripts provide a completely different perspective than the one you are pushing for, and more importantly that there exists thousands of other epistles and documents about Christianity that are not present in the bible, but they also corroborate and support the evidence presented in the canonical gospels.

    for instance this is one of many epistles written by ignatius of antioch (35AD-107AD) and this one is addressed to the ephesians, and there are hundreds of such letters and epistles written by the Church's fathers and dating to the very birth of Christianity, all around the basin of the mediterranean, with clear and singed authorship appearing all the manuscripts, corroborating and supporting the teachings found in the canonical books of the new testaments.

    Ignatius of Antioch
    Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fullness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning[1] of time, that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united[2] and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God: Abundant happiness through Jesus Christ, and His undefiled grace.​

    I have become acquainted with your name, much-beloved in God, which ye have acquired by the habit of righteousness, according to the faith and love in Jesus Christ our Saviour. Being the followers[4] of God, and stirring up[5] yourselves by the blood of God, ye have perfectly accomplished the work which was beseeming to you. For, on hearing that I came bound from Syria for the common name and hope, trusting through your prayers to be permitted to fight with beasts at Rome, that so by martyrdom I may indeed become the disciple of Him "who gave Himself for us, an offering and sacrifice to God,"[6][ye hastened to see me[7]]. I received, therefore,[8] your whole multitude in the name of God, through Onesimus, a man of inexpressible love,[9] and your bishop in the flesh, whom I pray you by Jesus Christ to love, and that you would all seek to be like him. And blessed be He who has granted unto you, being worthy, to obtain such an excellent bishop.​
    As to my fellow-servant Burrhus, your deacon in regard to God and blessed in all things,[1] I beg that he may continue longer, both for your honour and that of your bishop. And Crocus also, worthy both of God and you, whom I have received as the manifestation[2] of your love, hath in all things refreshed[3] me, as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ shall also refresh[3] him; together with Onesimus, and Burrhus, and Euplus, and Fronto, by means of whom, I have, as to love, beheld all of you. May I always have joy of you, if indeed I be worthy of it. It is therefore befitting that you should in every way glorify Jesus Christ, who hath glorified you, that by a unanimous obedience "ye may be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment, and may all speak the same thing concerning the same thing,"[5] and that, being subject to the bishop and the presbytery, ye may in all respects be sanctified.​
    I do not issue orders to you, as if I were some great person. For though I am bound for the name [of Christ], I am not yet perfect in Jesus Christ. For now I begin to be a disciple, and I speak to you as fellow- disciples with me. For it was needful for me to have been stirred up by you in faith, exhortation, patience, and long-suffering. But inasmuch as love suffers me not to be silent in regard to you, I have therefore taken[6] upon me first to exhort you that ye would all run together in accordance with the will of God. For even Jesus Christ, our inseparable life, is the [manifested] will of the Father; as also bishops, settled everywhere to the utmost bounds [of the earth], are so by the will of Jesus Christ.​
    Wherefore it is fitting that ye should run together in accordance with the will of your bishop, which thing also ye do. For your justly renowned presbytery, worthy of God, is fitted as exactly to the bishop as the strings are to the harp. Therefore in your concord and harmonious love, Jesus Christ is sung. And do ye, man by man, become a choir, that being harmonious in love, and taking up the song of God in unison, ye may with one voice sing to the Father through Jesus Christ, so that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that ye are indeed the members of His son. It is profitable, therefore, that you should live in an unblameable unity, that thus ye may always enjoy communion with God.​
    For if I in this brief space of time, have enjoyed such fellowship with your bishop--I mean not of a mere human, but of a spiritual nature--how much more do I reckon you happy who are so joined to him as the Church is to Jesus Christ, and as Jesus Christ is to the Father, that so all things may agree in unity! Let no man deceive himself: if any one be not within the altar, he is deprived of the bread of God. For if the prayer of one or two possesses[4] such power, how much more that of the bishop and the whole Church !He, therefore, that does not assemble with the Church, has even[5] by this manifested his pride, and condemned himself. For it is written, "God resisteth the proud."[9] Let us be careful, then, not to set ourselves in opposition to the bishop, in order that we may be subject to God.​
    Now the more any one sees the bishop keeping silence,[10] the more ought he to revere him. For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household,[11] as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would upon the Lord Himself. And indeed Onesimus himself greatly commends your good order in God, that ye all live according to the truth, and that no sect has any dwelling-place among you. Nor, indeed, do ye hearken to any one rather than to Jesus Christ speaking in truth.​
    For some are in the habit of carrying about the name [of Jesus Christ] in wicked guile, while yet they practise things unworthy of God, whom ye must flee as ye would wild beasts. For they are ravening dogs, who bite secretly, against whom ye must be on your guard, inasmuch as they are men who can scarcely be cured. There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible,[7] even Jesus Christ our Lord.​
    Let not then any one deceive you, as indeed ye are not deceived, inasmuch as ye are wholly devoted to God. For since there is no strife raging among you which might distress you, ye are certainly living in accordance with God's will. I am far inferior to you, and require to be sanctified by your Church of Ephesus, so renowned throughout the world. They that are carnal cannot do those things which are spiritual, nor they that are spiritual the things which are carnal; even as faith cannot do the works of unbelief, nor the unbelief the works of faith. But even those things which ye do according to the flesh are spiritual; for ye do all things in Jesus Christ.​
    Nevertheless, I have heard of some who have passed on from this to you, having false doctrine, whom ye did not suffer to sow among you, but stopped your ears, that ye might not receive those things which were sown by them, as being stones[1] of the temple of the Father, prepared for the building of God the Father, and drawn up on high by the instrument of Jesus Christ, which is the cross,[2] making use of the Holy Spirit as a rope, while your faith was the means by which you ascended, and your love the way which led up to God. Ye, therefore, as well as all your fellow-travellers, are God- bearers, temple-bearers, Christ-bearers, bearers of holiness, adorned in all respects with the commandments of Jesus Christ, in whom also I exult that I have been thought worthy, by means of this Epistle, to converse and rejoice with you, because with respect to your Christian life[7] ye love nothing but God only.​
    And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men. For there is in them hope of repentance that they may attain to God. See,[2] then, that they be instructed by your works, if in no other way. Be ye meek in response to their wrath, humble in opposition to their boasting: to their blasphemies return[4] your prayers; in contrast to their error, be ye stedfast[5] in the faith; and for their cruelty, manifest your gentleness. While we take care not to imitate their conduct, let us be found their brethren in all true kindness; and let us seek to be followers of the Lord (who ever more unjustly treated, more destitute, more condemned?), that so no plant of the devil may be found in you, but ye may remain in all holiness and sobriety in Jesus Christ, both with respect to the flesh and spirit.​
    The last times are come upon us. Let us therefore be of a reverent spirit, and fear the long-suffering of God, that it tend not to our condemnation. For let us either stand in awe of the wrath to come, or show regard for the grace which is at present displayed--one of two things. Only [in one way or another] let us be found in Christ Jesus unto the true life. Apart from Him, let nothing attract[16] you, for whom I bear about these bonds, these spiritual jewels, by which may I arise through your prayers, of which I entreat I may always be a partaker, that I may be found in the lot of the Christians of Ephesus, who have always been of the same mind with the apostles through the power of Jesus Christ.​
    I know both who I am, and to whom I write. I am a condemned man, ye have been the objects of mercy; I am subject to danger, ye are established in safety. Ye are the persons through(1) whom those pass that are cut off for the sake of God. Ye are initiated into the mysteries of the Gospel with Paul, the holy, the martyred, the deservedly most happy, at whose feet(4) may I be found, when I shall attain to God; who in all his Epistles makes mention of you in Christ Jesus.​
    Take heed, then, often to come together to give thanks to God, and show forth His praise. For when ye assemble frequently in the same place, the powers of Satan are destroyed, and the destruction at which he aims(7) is prevented by the unity of your faith. Nothing is more precious than peace, by which all war, both in heaven and earth,(8) is brought to an end.​
    None of these things is hid from you, if ye perfectly possess that faith and love towards Christ Jesus(10) which are the beginning and the end of life. For the beginning is faith, and the end is love.(11) Now these two. being inseparably connected together,(12) are of God, while all other things which are requisite for a holy life follow after them. No man [truly] making a profession of faith sinneth;(13) nor does he that possesses love hate any one. The tree is made manifest by its fruit;(15) so those that profess themselves to be Christians shall be recognised by their conduct. For there is not now a demand for mere profession,(16) but that a man be found continuing in the power of faith to the end.​
    It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not to be one. It is good to teach, if he who speaks also acts. There is then one Teacher, who spake and it was done; while even those things which He did in silence are worthy of the Father. He who possesses the word of Jesus, is truly able to hear even His very silence, that he may be perfect, and may both act as he speaks, and be recognised by his silence. There is nothing which is hid from God, but our very secrets are near to Him. Let us therefore do all things as those who have Him dwelling in us, that we may be His temples,(20) and He may be in us as our God, which indeed He is, and will manifest Himself before our faces. Wherefore we justly love Him.​
    Do not err, my brethren.(3) Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(4) If, then, those who do this as respects the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with any one who corrupts by wicked doctrine the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such an one becoming defiled [in this way], shall go away into everlasting fire, and so shall every one that hearkens unto him.​
    For this end did the Lord suffer the ointment to be poured upon His head,(7) that He might breathe immortality into His Church. Be not ye anointed with the bad odour of the doctrine of the prince of this world; let him not lead you away captive from the life which is set before you. And why are we not all prudent, since we have received the knowledge of God, which is Jesus Christ? Why do we foolishly perish, not recognising the gift which the Lord has of a truth sent to us?​
    Let my spirit be counted as nothing(10) for the sake of the cross, which is a stumbling-block" to those that do not believe, but to us salvation and life eternal. "Where is the wise man? where the disputer?"(1) Where is the boasting of those who are styled prudent? For our God, Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment(3) of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost. He was born and baptized, that by His passion He might purify the water.​
    Now the virginity of Mary was hidden from the prince of this world, as was also her offspring, and the death of the Lord; three mysteries of renown,(5) which were wrought in silence by(6) God. How, then, was He manifested to the world?(7) A star shone forth in heaven above all the other stars, the light of Which was inexpressible, while its novelty struck men with astonishment. And all the rest of the stars, with the sun and moon, formed a chorus to this star, and its light was exceedingly great above them all. And there was agitation felt as to whence this new spectacle came, so unlike to everything else [in the heavens]. Hence every kind of magic was destroyed, and every bond of wickedness disappeared; ignorance was removed, and the old kingdom abolished, God Himself being manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life. And now that took a beginning which had been prepared by God. Henceforth all things were in a state of tumult, because He meditated the abolition of death.​
    If Jesus Christ shall graciously permit me through your prayers, and if it be His will, I shall, in a second little work which I will write to you, make further manifest to you [the nature of] the dispensation of which I have begun [to treat], with respect to the new man, Jesus Christ, in His faith and in His love, in His suffering and in His resurrection. Especially [will I do this 14] if the Lord make known to me that ye come together man by man in common through grace, individually,(1) in one faith, and in Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David according to the flesh, being both the Son of man and the Son of God, so that ye obey the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but [which causes] that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ.​
    My soul be for yours and theirs(2) whom, for the honour of God, ye have sent to Smyrna; whence also I write to you, giving thanks unto the Lord, and loving Polycarp even as I do you. Remember me, as Jesus Christ also remembered you. Pray ye for the Church which is in Syria, whence I am led bound to Rome, being the last of the faithful who are there, even as I have been thought worthy to be chosen(4) to show forth the honour of God. Farewell in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ, our common hope.​
    Google mining for evidence supporting the existence of the Son fo God will not change his mythic status and the fact that the New Testament is largely pseudepigraphical and edited works; that includes Paul’s letters. The same source that you originally quoted backs this up. Moreover, per your admission, the very first books of the NT were written 2 decades later, and the remaining much later than that. This begs the question, considering the New Testament was written nearly 2,000 years ago (based on gossip and old wives tales by unknown authors who falsified their work) is this extraordinary enough evidence for a man rising from the dead, walking on water, turning water to wine, healing the sick and so forth. Not only do these authors claim miracles, but they claim god came in flesh and blood and know the exact place and time he was born with great detail, later was smuggled to Egypt as a young suckling, had his last supper with his posse each of which is named, during his crucifixion his exact words are known from the cross, after he died there was a great quake that opened up the graves of Jerusalem allowing the dead to walk the streets and visit the temple, and last but not least, there was witness of his ascension to heaven… The lunacy of this quite apparent, and for someone in 2018 to stake a case that he’s privy to this evidence and has a "crushing majority" of scholars backing him up is a tad bit delusionary. Like LVV here, be honest with yourself, all this takes a great leap of faith.
    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Active Member
    Are you really discarding the possibility that any text can be misinterpreted or misquoted? and as such you don't feel obliged to demonstrate the validity of your interpretation? Or is it that the demonstration you'd be offering consists of banging your head against the wall, putting your head in the sand, and blindly sticking to your claim and repeating it ad nauseam?

    What if other people are claiming that the scriptures you are quoting actually say something different or even contrary to what you are claiming they are saying, and unlike you, have actually already built a reasoned argument in support of their position which happens also to be universally/officially adopted for the texts in question? How do you go about proving them wrong or proving your position? Is it by merely repeating 'the scriptures say what i am saying they are saying' ad infinitum? Without actually demonstrating or validating it? As you've been doing so far? Are you really not noticing that such a behavior fits the textbook definition of 'blind believer'? But things get even worse when you proceed from there on to parading yourself as the rational enlightened type that is set on enlightening and awakening people out of their blind irrational beliefs.

    The scriptures, based on the existing mainstream interpretation which you are supposed to be tackling and invalidating, not only do not call for people to subjugate one another, but actually call for all to conquer subjugation via love, self-sacrifice and endurance, to endure subjugation while and by espousing what actually truly opposes and eradicates it. You have to either invalidate this interpretation or demonstrate that such a call espouses slavery/subjugation. However, I gathered from your response that you have decided to evade doing either, and to proceed instead with delivering one last kick to an otherwise dead and rotten horse, namely by attempting to sustain your claim by merely repeating it and re-quoting the parable in question in support of it without actually demonstrating how does said parable support your claim, or how does your claim follow from said parable, while fittingly brushing away any opposing seemingly-inconvenient explanation as "personiziaed philosophical constructs that mean nothing" rather than trying to actually tackle and invalidate it. However, I will be offering it again now and will keep hoping for a rational rebuttal from your part so i can relay it to my friends to nudge them out of their slavery-espousing beliefs;

    If i am being likened in a parable to the thief, then i'm being likened to the thief in certain aspects, by definition. Since semblance isn't necessarily equation, the question that follows is: in what aspects am I being likened to the thief in the parable? For it could be in the aspect of [stealing and espousing the idea of stealing], or in the aspect of [being swift, moving discretely and showing up unexpectedly]. In order to settle this, the task of the interpreter is to retrieve and support the answer from the parable, and consequently conclude whether myself in the parable (or the parable itself) espouses theft.

    Likewise, if humans and God are being likened in a parable to slaves and master, respectively, the question that follows is: in what aspects are humans and God being likened to slaves and master, respectively? For it could be in the aspect of [being subject to a certain authority, having and exercising authority over others] or in the aspect of [being unjustly subject to a certain authority, possessing such authority and abusing it]. If humans and God are being likened to slaves and master respectively, in the former aspect, then 1) the parable doesn't say 'beat your slaves for disobedience' any more or any differently than 'the justice system' in principle says so, and 2) the parable doesn't equate 'following God' to a 'slave following his master' any more or any differently than 'following justice' is equated to 'a slave following his master'. Your task, therefore, is to demonstrate otherwise, or to demonstrate that humans and God, in the parable, are likened to slaves and masters respectively, in the latter aspect.


    If by pseudepigraphical you mean fraud, then there's no pseudepigraphical material in the Bible.
    Yes, I mean fraud and falsely attributed works. It's not my opinion, its a fact verified by scholars. Although, fraud may not apply in every case since many of these authors attributed their works to mythical figures who didn't even exist...

    In terms of interpretation, the entire God and his creation premise is a slave master relationship. I cannot count the numerous instances in the New Testament that warn you to fear god who can smite and torture you, that obeying and worshiping him will earn you much rewards in heaven with eternal praise, that he is the way to life and glory... That is slavery on a divine level.
    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Active Member
    This is for Christians
    Not an atheist Jew
    Facts facts
    Nice coming from a follower of the Lamb of God who died and saved even the atheist Jews. However, if I may be so bold and speak on the behalf of other atheists, you've earned our respect since you're the only proud Christian here who is unapologetic about the great empire that your popes and their minions led with an iron fist for many centuries. In the process of this great reign, your empire wiped out many Jews, or for that matter, anyone who stood in their way.


    Nice coming from a follower of the Lamb of God who died and saved even the atheist Jews. However, if I may be so bold and speak on the behalf of other atheists, you've earned our respect since you're the only proud Christian here who is unapologetic about the great empire that your popes and their minions led with an iron fist for many centuries. In the process of this great reign, your empire wiped out many Jews, or for that matter, anyone who stood in their way.
    Don't tell us that when you were a devout Christian, you did not know what the popes, their minions, and Christ's vicars did? Wow, you were truly living a fairytale.


    Yes, I mean fraud and falsely attributed works. It's not my opinion, its a fact verified by scholars. Although, fraud may not apply in every case since many of these authors attributed their works to mythical figures who didn't even exist...
    In fact, there are no authors for the Bible per se. It is mostly a collection of pseudoepigraphic material, collected by some men who were walking in Judea talking about a man (if he really existed) that they never met. The mythical figures to which they attributed their work to also never met the Nazarine.
    In terms of interpretation, the entire God and his creation premise is a slave master relationship. I cannot count the numerous instances in the New Testament that warn you to fear god who can smite and torture you, that obeying and worshiping him will earn you much rewards in heaven with eternal praise, that he is the way to life and glory... That is slavery on a divine level.
    The New Testament has numerous instances of gnashing teeth, take this for example:
    Matthew 13:42
    They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Ralph N

    Active Member
    In fact, there are no authors for the Bible per se. It is mostly a collection of pseudoepigraphic material, collected by some men who were walking in Judea talking about a man (if he really existed) that they never met. The mythical figures to which they attributed their work to also never met the Nazarine.

    The New Testament has numerous instances of gnashing teeth, take this for example:
    Matthew 13:42
    They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Who will throw who? Who will throw them into the blazing furnace?!!!

    Ralph N

    Active Member
    the Jesuits will throw the "secret government of the world" in the blazing furnace of moulin d'or.
    El gharib fik enak 3emel hallak modern Priest bas ba3dak like mid-evil priests ready to kill in the name of the Church.. Masskhara w hartakka and soukhriye ...esstak gharibe ya DARK...

    At least I should be wrong to be mocked right?!!!

    Ralph N

    Active Member
    Christ and his vicars on Earth will throw unbelievers there.
    Ruins you dont know what happened and how it happened Christ is not the one who said such a thing.. And even if he did say it, he said it would happen in the after life...not here & now.. He said that so that people would be afraid to harm or kill each other if he said it...
    If you really want to know Jesus neither do I or some dark or light angel or any one can tell you about him, you need to search for him and experiance him.. thats it...


    Well-Known Member
    Our History of Christians and Christianity continues
    Mary greatest of all Women and the Divine Morher Of God and Humanity