Deep into Druze faith

Lebanese-Nationalist

Lebanese-Nationalist

Well-Known Member
The Druze in Israel don't even consider themselves to be Arabs, they consider Druze as their ethnicity weirdly enough, and they're even giving their children Hebrew names.

Most Druze realize that now, it's the Christians who are not willing to have them as allies and keep on hating on them.
Christians can't even take each other as allies and hate on one another. You can't expect them to ally with the Druze.

A large portion of the Christianity community over the past 13 years has been deluded into believing the Shia are their main allies. A slightly smaller portion think that the Saudis and Emiratis are their brothers.
 
  • Advertisement
  • W

    wdawle1

    Member
    I'm not not gonna lie, one of the reasons I opened the thread is for Christians to notice how wonderful people they are and stop hating them, how incredible allies they could make.
    There is saying that goes, befriend the druze but never sleep with them. They are the last ally christians should look for. They stab you in the back .
    Btw, let me give you an example on them.I was once talking to druze guy, and he told me they are not muslims and they dont consider themselves muslims.The same guy, I caught him months later speaking with another guy saying druze are muslims and share alot with them.
    So yeh dont be fooled when they speak with you and act like they are close with you. because they do same with others. their whole politics in lebanon was dividing lebanese. They set palestinians on christians, they set muslims on christians. And son walid didnt differ much from father kamal, and he set sunni - shia together.

    Its last ally I would consider, seriously.
     
    W

    wdawle1

    Member
    MK Kara: Druze are Descended from Jews

    MK Kara: Druze are Descended from Jews
    The secret is out, says Druze MK Ayoub Kara: "The Druze are actually descended from the Jewish people, and genetic evidence proves it."

    For centuries, practitioners of the Druze religion took care not to reveal any information about the nature of their beliefs, rituals, and traditions. Under penalty of communal ostracism, or worse, members of Druze communities have refrained from telling any outsider more than basic details about their religion.

    But now, the secret is out. Druze MK Ayoub Kara (Likud) says members of the Druze communities believe in many of the same things that Jews do. And that's not surprising, he adds, since the Druze are actually descended from the Jewish people - and he says he can bring genetic evidence to prove it.

    According to Kara, who is politically allied with the Jewish nationalist camp, there are many aspects of Druze beliefs that mesh with Judaism: “All our prophets are Jewish ones – Moses, Judah, Jethro, and Zevulun, the son of Jacob.” In fact, he says, the Druze are likely one of the lost tribes of the Jewish people – probably Zevulun, considering his special status among them.

    According to Kara, there are no vestigial Jewish practices among the Druze – as there are, surprisingly, among some Arabs in the Land of Israel – but one symbol has stuck with the Druze throughout the centuries. “Only among Druze do you find a red Star of David, in homes, cemeteries, and places of worship,” Kara says. “This is one sign that has been open and visible for centuries, unlike most of the other ones, yet few have noticed.”

    If the Druze dropped most, if not all, Jewish ritual, it's because they feared the sword of Islam. “Unlike Jews and Christians, who have the status of “people of the Book” among Muslims, and are therefore are given some basic rights, Druze are simply heretics to Islam, and such heretics must be either converted or eliminated,” Kara explains. In fact, Druze were massacred by Muslims on several occasions, and “it would have been much worse if they had identified themselves as Jews.” As a result, the Druze initially converted to Christianity and subsequently took on a Muslim identity – but through it all, they never forgot their Jewish identity.

    Those roots explain, at least in part, the fierce loyalty the Druze in Israel have to the state. “However, Druze here are too fearful to loudly proclaim their sympathies with Israel, or to convert to Judaism, although some do – because of the fear of what might happen to their brethren in Syria and Lebanon,” Kara said. Druze soldiers have given their lives for Israel and have risen high in IDF ranks. However, Druze tradition is to be loyal to whatever country rules the area they live in, so that Druze in Syria are loyal to Syria.

    And then there is the genetic study, which shows that Druze display genetic attributes quite similar to those of Jews (see the study for the technical details). “A major genetic test from last year, the first extensive test done of the Druze, proves my contention clearly,” says Kara.

    Not all experts are convinced – at least not yet. Tsvi MiSinai, an Israeli author who has conducted extensive investigations into the cultural and genetic background of the Arabs living west of the Jordan River, and who has concluded that the vast majority of them are descended from the Jewish nation, believes that more study is necessary. “According to the study, the genetic cluster of Druze coincides closely with those of the Samaritans, and is very close to the genetic clusters of Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Jews from the Caucasus,” says MiSinai, author of an ambitious study on “Jewish nationhood” called “Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother.”

    While the evidence so far is persuasive, MiSinai wants to see more. “We know from history that there were definitely Jewish villages that became part of the Druze community, mostly to avoid being forced to convert to Islam, such as the residents of the villages of Abu Snein and Yarcha. If the genetic samples were taken from there, it doesn't say much about the rest of the Druze. I would want to see more of an in-depth study,” MiSinai says.

    Kara says that his evidence stands on its own merits. “For thousands of years the Druze suffered,” he said, “so it's understandable that they would be a little hesitant to come forward after only 60 years of Israel's existence. But when you check our beliefs – and our veneration of the great Jewish prophets – the matter should become clear.”
     
    NAFAR

    NAFAR

    Well-Known Member
    From personal experience, I can say Druze on persona level a mostly secular and are close to Christian on the social level and the way of life....much closer than sunni or shi3a.
    However they are very tribal when it come to marriage.......which is common among all Arabs and middle eastern people.
    I can say that Druze under the right political leadership can coexist peacefully with Christians if they forget about the past and the idea that they once ruled Mount Lebanon.
     
    Aoune32!

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    From personal experience, I can say Druze on persona level a mostly secular and are close to Christian on the social level and the way of life....much closer than sunni or shi3a.
    However they are very tribal when it come to marriage.......which is common among all Arabs and middle eastern people.
    I can say that Druze under the right political leadership can coexist peacefully with Christians if they forget about the past and the idea that they once ruled Mount Lebanon.
    How do you want them to forget the idea that they once ruled mount lebanon? The christians demographically in mount lebanon are twice if not three times the druze number if we count Keserwen, Jbeil, Baabda, Metn, Chouf and Aley. The whole druze number is 200K in the whole country and their birth rates are going down every year so their fear is warranted.
     
    Aoune32!

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    MK Kara: Druze are Descended from Jews

    MK Kara: Druze are Descended from Jews
    The secret is out, says Druze MK Ayoub Kara: "The Druze are actually descended from the Jewish people, and genetic evidence proves it."

    For centuries, practitioners of the Druze religion took care not to reveal any information about the nature of their beliefs, rituals, and traditions. Under penalty of communal ostracism, or worse, members of Druze communities have refrained from telling any outsider more than basic details about their religion.

    But now, the secret is out. Druze MK Ayoub Kara (Likud) says members of the Druze communities believe in many of the same things that Jews do. And that's not surprising, he adds, since the Druze are actually descended from the Jewish people - and he says he can bring genetic evidence to prove it.

    According to Kara, who is politically allied with the Jewish nationalist camp, there are many aspects of Druze beliefs that mesh with Judaism: “All our prophets are Jewish ones – Moses, Judah, Jethro, and Zevulun, the son of Jacob.” In fact, he says, the Druze are likely one of the lost tribes of the Jewish people – probably Zevulun, considering his special status among them.

    According to Kara, there are no vestigial Jewish practices among the Druze – as there are, surprisingly, among some Arabs in the Land of Israel – but one symbol has stuck with the Druze throughout the centuries. “Only among Druze do you find a red Star of David, in homes, cemeteries, and places of worship,” Kara says. “This is one sign that has been open and visible for centuries, unlike most of the other ones, yet few have noticed.”

    If the Druze dropped most, if not all, Jewish ritual, it's because they feared the sword of Islam. “Unlike Jews and Christians, who have the status of “people of the Book” among Muslims, and are therefore are given some basic rights, Druze are simply heretics to Islam, and such heretics must be either converted or eliminated,” Kara explains. In fact, Druze were massacred by Muslims on several occasions, and “it would have been much worse if they had identified themselves as Jews.” As a result, the Druze initially converted to Christianity and subsequently took on a Muslim identity – but through it all, they never forgot their Jewish identity.

    Those roots explain, at least in part, the fierce loyalty the Druze in Israel have to the state. “However, Druze here are too fearful to loudly proclaim their sympathies with Israel, or to convert to Judaism, although some do – because of the fear of what might happen to their brethren in Syria and Lebanon,” Kara said. Druze soldiers have given their lives for Israel and have risen high in IDF ranks. However, Druze tradition is to be loyal to whatever country rules the area they live in, so that Druze in Syria are loyal to Syria.

    And then there is the genetic study, which shows that Druze display genetic attributes quite similar to those of Jews (see the study for the technical details). “A major genetic test from last year, the first extensive test done of the Druze, proves my contention clearly,” says Kara.

    Not all experts are convinced – at least not yet. Tsvi MiSinai, an Israeli author who has conducted extensive investigations into the cultural and genetic background of the Arabs living west of the Jordan River, and who has concluded that the vast majority of them are descended from the Jewish nation, believes that more study is necessary. “According to the study, the genetic cluster of Druze coincides closely with those of the Samaritans, and is very close to the genetic clusters of Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Jews from the Caucasus,” says MiSinai, author of an ambitious study on “Jewish nationhood” called “Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother.”

    While the evidence so far is persuasive, MiSinai wants to see more. “We know from history that there were definitely Jewish villages that became part of the Druze community, mostly to avoid being forced to convert to Islam, such as the residents of the villages of Abu Snein and Yarcha. If the genetic samples were taken from there, it doesn't say much about the rest of the Druze. I would want to see more of an in-depth study,” MiSinai says.

    Kara says that his evidence stands on its own merits. “For thousands of years the Druze suffered,” he said, “so it's understandable that they would be a little hesitant to come forward after only 60 years of Israel's existence. But when you check our beliefs – and our veneration of the great Jewish prophets – the matter should become clear.”
    Look up Jethro and you will see who the druze are.
    Jethro (biblical figure) - Wikipedia
     
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    To be considered durzi both parents must be druze. Walid Joumblat was married three times to non durzi. His son, Taimur Joumblat, the new za3eem of the druze, is therefore not durzi :eek:

     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    A Roum friend of mine is marrying a Dirziyi. Her parents love him and gave him a piece of land to build a house. She has 8 brothers.
    Then you hear about the Sunni who lost his penis for trying to marry Dirziyi.

    Can't work them out.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    A Roum friend of mine is marrying a Dirziyi. Her parents love him and gave him a piece of land to build a house. She has 8 brothers.
    Then you hear about the Sunni who lost his penis for trying to marry Dirziyi.

    Can't work them out.
    Well they're not a homogenous blob with the exact same thoughts split evenly among them , byozmotlo kam wahad with their penises intact :p
     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Maarwan hmades sister is ghassan twanis wife... Or the other way around dunno..

    People with money make their own rules in Lebanon.
     
    Mysobalanus

    Mysobalanus

    New Member
    Thread dedicated to the Druze faith or religion. Honestly I was kinda shocked there was still no thread on them considering their fundamental role in the formation of Lebanon. Fakhreddine was the first to come up with the concept of a united Lebanon back in the 16th century.

    Apparently there are many misconceptions about the Druze and their faith, especially among Christians. I was talking to a Druze guy some time ago and he said Druze faith is much closer to Christianity than to Islam and they actually take offense when someone calls them Muslims, but that due to persecution they had to historically 'portray' themselves as Muslims, that's why a Quran used to be displayed at the entrance of their homes, a practice that is no longer common. However, very few people have access to their actual scriptures, which just the Sheiks and 'initiated' people have access to. He told me that even most Druzes are considered 'ignorant' to have access to those books. If there's any Druze member, your input would be appreciated.
    Hi, I'm Druze.

    1- Druze books

    The main secret books are found online (you can check archive.org). They were mostly revealed after the Ottoman invasions. There's other secondary books that remain secretive and I have some of those. However, a lot of the Druze faith is maintained in oral traditions. The text also includes esoteric blinders and so doesn't reveal fully what is intended.

    2- Druze relation to Christianity

    In terms of creed, the Druze faith is definitely closer to Christianity than it is to Islam. But I'd say Druze are closer to Gnostic Christians and Rosicrucian Freemasons than to typical Christians.

    (1) We reject Mohammad and the Qur'an (aside from some of subtle gnostic references within it),. but we do accept Master Jesus (before resurrection) as one of our five masters (the first bound of the five). The Druze also follow Master John the Baptist (second bound of the five) and other biblical figures (e.g Mark). And it's reported some Druze had baptism like the second son of Sultan Basha Al-Atrash. Also many Druze (e.g my mom) think of St Charbel and St Maron as our high esoteric monks and believe in their blessings.

    (2) The Druze's most revered Al Hakem Bi Amr Allah was of a Melekite Christian mother. And there's speculation whether one of the founders, Master Bahaa, was of a Christian origin. That's because he is called "The Guest" among Druze and showed great knowledge of Christianity. To the point that in his correspondence with the Christians of Constantinople, they thought he was a heretic Christian.

    (3) Master Bahaa even stated clearly that the Christian Saints were the first to follow the actual God (He who appears to mankind) and not the long-lost nothingness (as opposed to those who stayed in the belly of the whale). However, he got a negative response from Constantinople for suggesting heretical beliefs, and so did write an angry letter in the end of the corresopondance. At the time, both Druze and Christians were under persecution and so he described Christians as a "wounded and obnoxious animal that attacks you while you try to help it, making you regret ever having sympathy for it."

    (4) Some Knight Templar lineages claim descent from Druzes or that the secret societies in Lebanon shaped the secrecy and organization followed by them. I suggest reading Entering the Chain of Union by Timothy Hogan or listening to some of his podcasts. There's also white Europeans today who are Druze, as their lineages joined the Druze faith when conversion was allowed. They go under "The reunited Druzes" and other names. Formerly, the Druze branch within Freemasonry was the "Order of the Brazen Serpent" but now it includes Sufis.

    3- Druze genetics

    Lebanese Druze are genetically the closest to Lebanese Maronites [Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture] so blood ties do exist there. However, most Druze adhere to false genetic lies about them being from Arab or Yemenite origins, when that's not true and was done for political purposes (my family being one of those who used that for political power in Syria). If anything, Druze are mostly of Anatolian descent and ancestors of the inhabitants of the area surrounding Lake Van in Turkey and migrated down to reach Lebanon and Syria. So genetically far away from Arabs and closer to Maronites and Jews.

    4- Druze Rituals and Beliefs

    It is said that Druze are a branch of Nizari Ismealis. However, Druze and Nusayris both share a lot of beliefs, and yet one is said to come from the Seveners and one from the Twelvers. In my honest opinion, those secret societies seem to have always existed in Lebanon and Syria even before Islam. And so Master Hamza built his religion based around a secret society that was able to reach to power during that time and become public. With clear roots of Vedatic appearances of God - Hinduism, and other aspects of old religion.

    Druze do not fast in the literal sense, but the esoteric monks only eat very small portions of food. Druze do not pray in the literal sense, but recite poetry e.g on the return of Al-Hakem. Druze do not go on pilgrimage or actually celebrate Islamic holidays (it's done as pretense to outsiders, usually with a Druze celebration done in that time). Druze monks do avoid physical pleasure and believe it is worldly, and reach an alleviated sense of spirituality were they're too engulfed with thoughts and meditation to turn to bodily functions.

    There's rumors on calf-worship or sexual orgies within Druze temples, however they're clearly false and were done by individuals trying to disrepute the Druze's ultra-conservatism. Men and women are separated into different rooms and usually three meetings are held: One that's accessible to the public. Second in which esoteric poetry is recited among only the Uqqal (the initiated). And third were high monks alone discuss politics and social problems in their area. The rooms are not lit per old tradition in ancient religions. Even followed by Freemasons today in initiation rituals.

    Druze believe in reincarnation from human to human (with all souls created at inception - neo-platonism). While Nusayris believe that human souls can transmigrate into animals and stars. Which is why there was a huge split between them and the Druze, when both shared the same secret lodges in the Fatimid caliphate. Nusayris argue Ali Ibn Ali Taleb is an incarnation of God and has appeared in animals such as the dog of Al-Kahf and the Cow that Moses ordered to be slaughtered. While Druze reject that completely and consider Ali Ibn Abi Taleb to be a bound of evil . Druze argue God reflected himself into Al-Hakem and other historic figures preceding him (however, like a light reflects into a mirror). And so Al-Hakem is a spiritual surface meant to reflect the little of God which we barely can understand.

    That's really the gist of it. You can learn more by reading the Epistles of Wisdom online (note that the first four letters are false and meant to dissuade outsiders, it really starts after Letter 5).
     
    Mysobalanus

    Mysobalanus

    New Member
    5- On pan-Arabism and dress-code

    It is Taqiyah (deceit to outsiders). Druze are not Arabs or religiously abide by covering up women. And the Epistles of Wisdom speak of the second Crusades where the Druze should help the Christians in defeating the Muslims to take back the Levant. Emir Fakhr Eddine tried incurring the second crusades when he visited Europe for the same reasons, but ultimately failed.

    However, some Druze do believe they're from Arab lineages (due to how many times that lie has been repeated to them). But the elders know this is false, even the Joumblats who are of a Kurdish origin. The whole appeal to Palestinians and Arabs was a bad move, but I believe it was due to Maronite-Druze hatred rather than actual love for Arabism. Ironically, even the epistles of wisdom attacks the "Arabs".
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    5- On pan-Arabism and dress-code

    It is Taqiyah (deceit to outsiders). Druze are not Arabs or religiously abide by covering up women. And the Epistles of Wisdom speak of the second Crusades where the Druze should help the Christians in defeating the Muslims to take back the Levant. Emir Fakhr Eddine tried incurring the second crusades when he visited Europe for the same reasons, but ultimately failed.

    However, some Druze do believe they're from Arab lineages (due to how many times that lie has been repeated to them). But the elders know this is false, even the Joumblats who are of a Kurdish origin. The whole appeal to Palestinians and Arabs was a bad move, but I believe it was due to Maronite-Druze hatred rather than actual love for Arabism. Ironically, even the epistles of wisdom attacks the "Arabs".
    How can one trust a Druze when their faith revolves around "deceit"?
    Also, if the headcovering thing is just part of a plot to appeal to Arabs, why do many Druze women maintain this tradition today? It's not like they're being persecuted by Muslims.
     
    Mysobalanus

    Mysobalanus

    New Member
    How can one trust a Druze when their faith revolves around "deceit"?
    Also, if the headcovering thing is just part of a plot to appeal to Arabs, why do many Druze women maintain this tradition today? It's not like they're being persecuted by Muslims.
    The dress-code is still maintained because of the fear that we--would be--persecuted if we didn't blend in. It's like Yazdis who are Kurds but still pray in Arabic to this day. We consider Islam to be the strongest religion and that its adherents could be very intolerant if we are singled out as a minority. ISIS and other groups already consider us Kaffirs, but it remains a strategic move in Druze - Muslim relations overall. Certain groups like the Dai Ammar (who are more openly anti-Islamic), do not require the dress-code within their villages (for both men and women). So you could be a Sheikha in the Dai Ammar faction and be dressed as a civilian. (e.g many of the Dai Ammar killed in the 2008 conflicts with Hezbollah were Sheikhs but not in dress-code).

    To know our beliefs, simply read first-hand resources that are now available online or scanned copies found in museums. The only thing Druze could hide are secondary beliefs and oral traditions at this point.
     
    Mysobalanus

    Mysobalanus

    New Member
    How can one trust a Druze when their faith revolves around "deceit"?
    Also, if the headcovering thing is just part of a plot to appeal to Arabs, why do many Druze women maintain this tradition today? It's not like they're being persecuted by Muslims.
    Also, Early Christians also had to go underground and hide their beliefs. "Secrecy" and "deceit to outsiders" existed among minorities and ancient religions and were required for survival.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    The dress-code is still maintained because of the fear that we--would be--persecuted if we didn't blend in. It's like Yazdis who are Kurds but still pray in Arabic to this day. We consider Islam to be the strongest religion and that its adherents could be very intolerant if we are singled out as a minority. ISIS and other groups already consider us Kaffirs, but it remains a strategic move in Druze - Muslim relations overall. Certain groups like the Dai Ammar (who are more openly anti-Islamic), do not require the dress-code within their villages (for both men and women). So you could be a Sheikha in the Dai Ammar faction and be dressed as a civilian. (e.g many of the Dai Ammar killed in the 2008 conflicts with Hezbollah were Sheikhs but not in dress-code).

    To know our beliefs, simply read first-hand resources that are now available online or scanned copies found in museums. The only thing Druze could hide are secondary beliefs and oral traditions at this point.
    Sorry I don't buy into this. It sounds like something you made up to prove your point.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Anyway no one cares enough about the Druze to bother read up on their beliefs. But judging by recent history, they are the most violent group in Lebanon by far.
    Your attempts at whitewashing their history is not working.

    Everytime an invader came to Lebanon, they made them their best friend.
    They will do anything to piss off the Christians!
     
    Top