Deep into Druze faith

ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

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What gives you confidence in al-Hakem that he was "ma'soom"?
Druze believe he had supernatural abilities, high wisdom and great depth into gnostic secrets and astronomy. And trace his mysterious actions and monkshood into successful attempts of refuting the Islamic tenets. Such as banning a prayer said to lead to God's wrath but nothing happening. And flipping the day and the night for worker hours to make the comparison with what happens in Ramadan and how most Muslims are just flipping day and night in an ultimately meaningless practice. Or pointing out how God is everywhere but Islam dictates directing prayer to the Kaaba which is unnecessary. And that if it is just a method of organization, then the ritual itself is unimportant and not fundamental to prayer or dabiha etc. Which is the crux of the Druze reading... To take conclusions and not abide by literals as mainstream religion was sent down to naive worshipers who needed pointless instructions, rules and concepts such as heaven and hell or demons and angels. While God is far beyond that simplified model.
 
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  • ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    Active Member
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    What are these fundamentals of the druze faith?

    And on what basis do they differ? And what are the beliefs and practices you disagree on amongst yourselves? And why do you think these differences do not qualify to place you into different sects?
    There's fundamentals agreed upon and mentioned in the letters:

    سدق اللسان (With S due to Kaabalist sum of letters).
    حفظ الأخوان
    ترك ما كان عليه الموحدون وما اعتقدوه من عبادة العدم والبهتان
    البراءة من الأبالسة والطغيان (Meaning false prophets)
    التوحيد للمولى في كل عصر وزمان.
    الرضا بفعله كيفما كان
    التسليم لأمره في السر والحدثان

    No, I don't think there's major differences among the Druze to qualify for different sects. Even with the Dai Ammar being more innovative in some aspects.
     
    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

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    The offensive parts about the Prophet and Imam Ali won't be more than the fabrications found in some weakened hadiths
    That's not true. I've studied Islam well and read even the more polished narrations about them. We can agree with no doubt they were men with swords, political interests, many wives and many feuds. Not exactly as qualified spiritually and morally as Buddhist/Druze/Christian monks who grow up in isolation and meditate and pray daily for the rest of their lives with barely any social interaction with the outside world. I'm just being very honest and not bringing up any weak hadiths or specifics. But the general narratives of their lives.

    Now Al-Hakem was a said to be a Mad Caliph and a Warlord. So Druze explain his immoral actions and "craziness" by claiming he attained a high degree of spirituality and was reflecting God's wisdom which is strange to man and violating standard concepts. But which he is only allowed to violate since he is basically God on Earth and above Good and Evil. But the Druze high monks can never attain such degree and so live in very strict and devoted lives to ascend and unite spiritually with God. They think Al-Hakem's actions were also to break thought patterns and custom reflexes and make people think and doubt what they know. This is also part of the Assassin degrees. BTw. So not introduced by the Druze.
     
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    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    Druze believe he had supernatural abilities, high wisdom and great depth into gnostic secrets and astronomy. And trace his mysterious actions and monkshood into successful attempts of refuting the Islamic tenets. Such as banning a prayer said to lead to God's wrath but nothing happening. And flipping the day and the night for worker hours to make the comparison with what happens in Ramadan and how most Muslims are just flipping day and night in an ultimately meaningless practice. Or pointing out how God is everywhere but Islam dictates directing prayer to the Kaaba which is unnecessary. And that if it is just a method of organization, then the ritual itself is unimportant and not fundamental to prayer or dabiha etc. Which is the crux of the Druze reading... To take conclusions and not abide by literals as mainstream religion was sent down to naive worshipers who needed pointless instructions, rules and concepts such as heaven and hell or demons and angels. While God is far beyond that simplified model.
    You have not told me what makes him infallible. Each religion has its own rituals and practices. Replacing one code of rituals with another doesn't speak of superiority. Its a matter of choice.

    Are there are documented stories about his supernatural powers and miracles of flipping days and night? I didnt quite understand what you even meant by flipping days and nights.

    And if the Islamic practices aren't spiritual enough for you and aren't wise enough, what practices did you replace them with? Nothing? Or similar ones?

    As for the qiblah, we dont direct prayers to the Kabaah. We direct prayers to God. The Kaabah is just a Qiblah. Like the Israelite prophets in the old testament (Daniel in particular) in Book of Kings directed his prayers towards the temple in Jerusalem. The owning of a Qiblah did not start with Islam. Islam just considers the Kaabah as the first temple of God and Jerusalem as the second Qiblah.

    The druze faith, being a syncretic faith or a mixture of many influences, should at least have made you more informed about the issue of having a Qiblah. Maybe you'd be more convinced of it, if you had known that Israelites also had a Qiblah. It would have been easier for you to copy and accept. I think your case is one built upon inferiority complex. Just like the Christians and Jews base their on superiority complex and can't imagine a prophet of God from Arabia.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    There's fundamentals agreed upon and mentioned in the letters:

    سدق اللسان (With S due to Kaabalist sum of letters).
    حفظ الأخوان
    ترك ما كان عليه الموحدون وما اعتقدوه من عبادة العدم والبهتان
    البراءة من الأبالسة والطغيان (Meaning false prophets)
    التوحيد للمولى في كل عصر وزمان.
    الرضا بفعله كيفما كان
    التسليم لأمره في السر والحدثان

    No, I don't think there's major differences among the Druze to qualify for different sects. Even with the Dai Ammar being more innovative in some aspects.
    Don't you think the fundamentals you have stated relate to universal principles? And the other ones sound like Islamic ones, e.g al-2amr bil maaroof wal nahi 3anil monkar, tawheed.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    That's not true. I've studied Islam well and read even the more polished narrations about them. We can agree with no doubt they were men with swords, political interests, many wives and many feuds. Not exactly as qualified spiritually and morally as Buddhist/Druze/Christian monks who grow up in isolation and meditate and pray daily for the rest of their lives with barely any social interaction with the outside world. I'm just being very honest and not bringing up any weak hadiths or specifics. But the general narratives of their lives.
    If you have read our simple duas, not even books relating to spirituality and the lives of the Prophet and the 12 Imams, you would have seen how spiritually rich and cleansing Islam is. Even, not to burden you, many minds have been blown into spiritual ecstasy just by listening to Quranic recitation.

    Now, maybe Muslims are not that good as Buddhists and Christians in marketing their faith and giving it labels of love and spirituality. But certainly, the substance is in Islam. But my goal isn't to convince you. My goal is to know about your own faith. And it is ironic that your faith has its root in Islam, and the man you consider its founder was just a Fatimid caliph. Yet, you display all sort of debauchery and shamelessness in condemning Islam as a way of uplifting your faith. It is like shooting one's self on the foot.

    Now Al-Hakem was a said to be a Mad Caliph and a Warlord. So Druze explain his immoral actions and "craziness" by claiming he attained a high degree of spirituality and was reflecting God's wisdom which is strange to man and violating standard concepts. But which he is only allowed to violate since he is basically God on Earth and above Good and Evil. But the Druze high monks can never attain such degree and so live in very strict and devoted lives to ascend and unite spiritually with God. They think Al-Hakem's actions were also to break thought patterns and custom reflexes and make people think and doubt what they know. This is also part of the Assassin degrees. BTw. So not introduced by the Druze.
    So what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

    A caliph could display attributes of madness and be excused as showcasing acts of godliness and spirituality. But a Prophet who stood for self defense and preached to aggressive and intolerant Arabian idolaters is seen as bloodthirsty. That rule of exceptionalism doesn't work.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    Why do we see the Druze Sheikh every time praying the Muslim way on dead Druze figures? They conduct Islamic funerals, even the Sunni way. Not the Shia way, knowing that they're are a Shia Ismaili offshoot.

    Why do they conduct Islamic burial rites. And why the Sunni way to be precise? Is it also a political statement? Is it taqiyyah? Or is it a case of lost identity and having no better option to bury the dead of the druze?

    One more question:

    Do druze people bury their corpses in Muslim cemeteries?
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

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    Why do we see the Druze Sheikh every time praying the Muslim way on dead Druze figures? They conduct Islamic funerals, even the Sunni way. Not the Shia way, knowing that they're are a Shia Ismaili offshoot.

    Why do they conduct Islamic burial rites. And why the Sunni way to be precise? Is it also a political statement? Is it taqiyyah? Or is it a case of lost identity and having no better option to bury the dead of the druze?

    One more question:

    Do druze people bury their corpses in Muslim cemeteries?
    As far as I know, Druze consider Mohammed the devil.
    Why would they bury their corpses in Muslim cemeteries?

    Their whole religion is a sham. They always pretend to be something they're not to blend in with the majority.
     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

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    As far as I know, Druze consider Mohammed the devil.
    Why would they bury their corpses in Muslim cemeteries?

    Their whole religion is a sham. They always pretend to be something they're not to blend in with the majority.
    So are you guys Shiite ?
     
    lebnan_lilkel

    lebnan_lilkel

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    I prefer not to disclose my religion on a political forum in order to maintain a level of neutrality.
    What neutrality ?? The only people that dont know you're shiite hard core are introducing themselves in the new member thread.
     
    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

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    As for the qiblah, we dont direct prayers to the Kabaah. We direct prayers to God. The Kaabah is just a Qiblah. Like the Israelite prophets in the old testament (Daniel in particular) in Book of Kings directed his prayers towards the temple in Jerusalem. The owning of a Qiblah did not start with Islam. Islam just considers the Kaabah as the first temple of God and Jerusalem as the second Qiblah.
    I didn't say Muslims don't pray to God. But said exactly what you said to question the need for a Qiblah.
     
    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

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    Now, maybe Muslims are not that good as Buddhists and Christians in marketing their faith and giving it labels of love and spirituality. But certainly, the substance is in Islam. But my goal isn't to convince you. My goal is to know about your own faith. And it is ironic that your faith has its root in Islam, and the man you consider its founder was just a Fatimid caliph. Yet, you display all sort of debauchery and shamelessness in condemning Islam as a way of uplifting your faith. It is like shooting one's self on the foot..
    The discussion is becoming meaningless. Druze and other groups were secret societies with similar beliefs before the advent of Islam and close to Hinduism. While Islam is in itself a syncretic, gnostic tradition that build itself on Jewish prophets who would probably beat Mohammad with a stick if they ever see him. In addition to Hindu/Zoroastrian beliefs and practices that were common in the region. Yet who claim all Jewish prophets were Muslim and Islam is genuine when it is not. Yet you criticize the Druze and do not see the forest in your own eyes. You don't see your verses attacking both Christianity and Judaism and Polytheism when you've eaten the crumbs that fell from those three tables.
     
    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

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    As far as I know, Druze consider Mohammed the devil.
    Why would they bury their corpses in Muslim cemeteries?

    Their whole religion is a sham. They always pretend to be something they're not to blend in with the majority.
    Manifesto, bro. You're a Shiah and from a sect that does Taqiyah as well. As the Lebanese saying goes, "We buried him together'". Don't call us a sham when we both had to do what we had to do to survive.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    I didn't say Muslims don't pray to God. But said exactly what you said to question the need for a Qiblah.
    You don't believe in certain rituals, you don't have a qiblah, you don't pray regularly, you don't do pilgrimages, you don't fast, you become somewhat religious at over half of your life span and you want to come teach me about spirituality?

    It seems spirituality in your mind is all about answering your surname.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    The discussion is becoming meaningless. Druze and other groups were secret societies with similar beliefs before the advent of Islam and close to Hinduism. While Islam is in itself a syncretic, gnostic tradition that build itself on Jewish prophets who would probably beat Mohammad with a stick if they ever see him. In addition to Hindu/Zoroastrian beliefs and practices that were common in the region. Yet who claim all Jewish prophets were Muslim and Islam is genuine when it is not. Yet you criticize the Druze and do not see the forest in your own eyes. You don't see your verses attacking both Christianity and Judaism and Polytheism when you've eaten the crumbs that fell from those three tables.
    In the figurative sense, all prophets are Muslims (submitting to the will of God). That's all what Islam is about.

    There was no Druze religion, sect, cult or group before Islam. You probably want to trap me. So you can say there was no Islam before Prophet Muhammad (s). But it is not the same. The word "Islam" has a meaning that suggests an action. What is the meaning of "Druze"? It is probably a word derived from the name of someone. That's not the same with Islam.

    For your info, no previous prophets ever declared a religion. They all declared practices and beliefs yo bring people closer to God. Islam happens to be the only religion whose name is found in its holy script and proclaimed by its founder. Jesus (a) wasn't Christian for instance. Moses (a) was Jewish by tribe, etc.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    Manifesto, bro. You're a Shiah and from a sect that does Taqiyah as well. As the Lebanese saying goes, "We buried him together'". Don't call us a sham when we both had to do what we had to do to survive.
    Taqiyyah is not deception or confusion. And Taqiyyah doesn't amount to changing the tenets of your faith or playing hide and seek with beliefs. Taqiyyah is dissimulation. You deny what you are. You may not even necessarily claim what you are not. And Taqiyyah has conditions and rules. It is applied in times of danger to safeguard your life and property only. Not at every given opportunity to deceive people, who may intend no harm at you.

    And you have still answered my questions.

    Why do you bury like Muslims do? Your funeral prayer. And where do you bury your dead?
     
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