Deep into Druze faith

Iron Maiden

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Taqiyyah is not deception or confusion. And Taqiyyah doesn't amount to changing the tenets of your faith or playing hide and seek with beliefs. Taqiyyah is dissimulation. You deny what you are. You may not even necessarily claim what you are not. And Taqiyyah has conditions and rules. It is applied in times of danger to safeguard your life and property only. Not at every given opportunity to deceive people, who may intend no harm at you.

And you have still answered my questions.

Why do you bury like Muslims do? Your funeral prayer. And where do you bury your dead?
Its amazing that god needed to codify deceit in his revelations. Why would he ask that of his followers and those who submitted to his will. If he wills them to be in danger why would they hide from it?
 
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  • Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    Its amazing that god needed to codify deceit in his revelations. Why would he ask that of his followers and those who submitted to his will. If he wills them to be in danger why would they hide from it?
    Ask Peter (in the New Testament) and Abraham (in the Old Testament). Peter denier Jesus thrice before the cock crow. And Abraham claimed Sarah, his wife, was his sister.

    If you can understand those instances without any issue, then those are examples of Taqiyyah from the Bible.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Ask Peter (in the New Testament) and Abraham (in the Old Testament). Peter denier Jesus thrice before the cock crow. And Abraham claimed Sarah, his wife, was his sister.

    If you can understand those instances without any issue, then those are examples of Taqiyyah from the Bible.
    peter reflected human weakness, something that all human beings exhibit. God however should not encourage deceit. Truth is a primary component in the Christian faith. it is not always the case with other religions.

    what does islam teach about truth? (taqiya aside)
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    peter reflected human weakness, something that all human beings exhibit. God however should not encourage deceit. Truth is a primary component in the Christian faith. it is not always the case with other religions.

    what does islam teach about truth? (taqiya aside)
    You need to wash your brain with dettol.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    Ask Peter (in the New Testament) and Abraham (in the Old Testament). Peter denier Jesus thrice before the cock crow. And Abraham claimed Sarah, his wife, was his sister.

    If you can understand those instances without any issue, then those are examples of Taqiyyah from the Bible.
    U could just hav answered i dunno man its just is, ma bada hal2ad
     
    Le منشار

    Le منشار

    New Member
    7 pages on a thread about a hidden cult .. what's the point ?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    the truth is not a general word, it has to be about something
    it seems this is your personal answer, i am more interested in the official islamic perspective. what does the quran and the hadith have to say about the subject? what does the tafsir? the oulama? etc.
     
    Le منشار

    Le منشار

    New Member
    it seems this is your personal answer, i am more interested in the official islamic perspective. what does the quran and the hadith have to say about the subject? what does the tafsir? the oulama? etc.
    ِAbout what !!! go and ask one of your favorite mousakkafine and tell him I want to know the truth and his immediate answer would be "about what ?"
    shu bi sir ma3koun ba3ed el 12 bel leil ?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    ِAbout what !!! go and ask one of your favorite mousakkafine and tell him I want to know the truth and his immediate answer would be "about what ?"
    shu bi sir ma3koun ba3ed el 12 bel leil ?
    i c.. @Rachel Corrie you agree with that?
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    peter reflected human weakness, something that all human beings exhibit. God however should not encourage deceit. Truth is a primary component in the Christian faith. it is not always the case with other religions.

    what does islam teach about truth? (taqiya aside)
    Have you seen the movie Silent by Scorcese?
    It raises the question of whether it is ever OK to deny your faith.

    The movie tells a story of Rodrigues, a Jesuit priest who travelled to Japan, at a time when Christianity was outlawed and punishable by death.
    He is caught at one point and forced to renounce Christianity. At first he resists, but when the Japanese threaten to torture other Christian captives, he eventually finds himself forced to practice Taqiyya in order to save their lives.

    It shows how dogmatic and suicidal Christianity can be at times.
    How many lives could have been saved had Jesus preached Taqiyya?

    Below is a summary of the plot.
    Summary of the Plot
    Christianity has been outlawed in Japan. Unless you deny your faith (‘recant’) you will be tortured and killed. But where the authorities formerly targeted priests, they have learned that Japanese Christians only grow stronger when they see the courage and strength of a priests’ faith in the face of persecution. So the Japanese inquisitor has a new strategy: keep the priest alive, and torture other people until he recants to put an end to their suffering.


    Rodrigues is proud and determined, willing to face any amount of torture for the gospel message he believes in. He suffers for others’ sake as Christ suffered. But the Portuguese Jesuit is not prepared to find that his great mentor and guide, Ferreira, recanted years ago and now lives with his Japanese wife as a Buddhist. Nor is Rodrigues prepared for the ultimate challenge: will he deny his faith to end the torture of innocent people?

    The whole movie leads slowly and inexorably up to the point of this decision, tracing the contours of Rodrigues’ struggle.

    Finally Rodrigues reaches the climactic moment of decision. “You must now do the most painful act of love to have ever been performed,” says Ferreira. It is what Ferreira did: trample on the icon of Christ, enacting the abandonment of his Christian faith. “What would Jesus do?” Ferreira adds. “He would have compassion on these people. Christ would apostatize for their sake.” And in the greatest mental confusion and anguish, Rodrigues relents and tramples the icon. The tortured bodies nearby are immediately released. It is over. He has publicly abandoned his faith and his calling as a priest, but in his heart he remains a follower of Jesus until the day he dies.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Have you seen the movie Silent by Scorcese?
    It raises the question of whether it is ever OK to deny your faith.

    The movie tells a story of Rodrigues, a Jesuit priest who travelled to Japan, at a time when Christianity was outlawed and punishable by death.
    He is caught at one point and forced to renounce Christianity. At first he resists, but when the Japanese threaten to torture other Christian captives, he eventually finds himself forced to practice Taqiyya in order to save their lives.

    It shows how dogmatic and suicidal Christianity can be at times.
    How many lives could have been saved had Jesus preached Taqiyya?

    Below is a summary of the plot.
    Summary of the Plot
    Christianity has been outlawed in Japan. Unless you deny your faith (‘recant’) you will be tortured and killed. But where the authorities formerly targeted priests, they have learned that Japanese Christians only grow stronger when they see the courage and strength of a priests’ faith in the face of persecution. So the Japanese inquisitor has a new strategy: keep the priest alive, and torture other people until he recants to put an end to their suffering.


    Rodrigues is proud and determined, willing to face any amount of torture for the gospel message he believes in. He suffers for others’ sake as Christ suffered. But the Portuguese Jesuit is not prepared to find that his great mentor and guide, Ferreira, recanted years ago and now lives with his Japanese wife as a Buddhist. Nor is Rodrigues prepared for the ultimate challenge: will he deny his faith to end the torture of innocent people?

    The whole movie leads slowly and inexorably up to the point of this decision, tracing the contours of Rodrigues’ struggle.

    Finally Rodrigues reaches the climactic moment of decision. “You must now do the most painful act of love to have ever been performed,” says Ferreira. It is what Ferreira did: trample on the icon of Christ, enacting the abandonment of his Christian faith. “What would Jesus do?” Ferreira adds. “He would have compassion on these people. Christ would apostatize for their sake.” And in the greatest mental confusion and anguish, Rodrigues relents and tramples the icon. The tortured bodies nearby are immediately released. It is over. He has publicly abandoned his faith and his calling as a priest, but in his heart he remains a follower of Jesus until the day he dies.
    i am not talking about taqiya or discussing whether it is good or bad. i am asking what role truth plays in islamic theology according to islamic scripture. it does appear though from the answers i have received so far that the notion might be a foreign one to islam as people are not able to wrap their minds around the question. maybe the question is unclear?
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    i am not talking about taqiya or discussing whether it is good or bad. i am asking what role truth plays in islamic theology according to islamic scripture. it does appear though from the answers i have received so far that the notion might be a foreign one to islam as people are not able to wrap their minds around the question. maybe the question is unclear?
    You brought up Taqiya to discredit Islam as a religion where truth doesn't matter.
    I invalidated your argument by providing an example where Christian priests had to conceal their beliefs.

    Based on what fact, other than Taqiya, did you reach the conclusion that "truth doesn't play a significant role in Islam"?
    Clearly the notion of Taqiya is not so foreign to Christianity. Otherwise, it wouldn't have reached Japan.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    Let's stay on topic, this is a thread about Druze. If you wanna discuss Islam, there's a proper thread for it.
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    Let's stay on topic, this is a thread about Druze. If you wanna discuss Islam, there's a proper thread for it.
    Isn't Druze technically an offshoot of Islam?
    Deep down :) in keeping with the Deep into thread... :)
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    You brought up Taqiya to discredit Islam as a religion where truth doesn't matter.
    I invalidated your argument by providing an example where Christian priests had to conceal their beliefs.

    Based on what fact, other than Taqiya, did you reach the conclusion that "truth doesn't play a significant role in Islam"?
    Clearly the notion of Taqiya is not so foreign to Christianity. Otherwise, it wouldn't have reached Japan.
    For Christianity, Christ is the Truth, and we shall not deny His presence before any authority! He said, I'm the Truth, The Way, and The Life!

    Any true Christian is ready to the sacrifice to the Truth. So, if they are martyred as Christians, they died in Jesus name, they are with Jesus in Heaven!
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    You brought up Taqiya to discredit Islam as a religion where truth doesn't matter.
    I invalidated your argument by providing an example where Christian priests had to conceal their beliefs.

    Based on what fact, other than Taqiya, did you reach the conclusion that "truth doesn't play a significant role in Islam"?
    Clearly the notion of Taqiya is not so foreign to Christianity. Otherwise, it wouldn't have reached Japan.
    Taqeyya is not a bad thing :) It is deceit but only when it is deemed necessary by the one deceiving, so it is bound by rules you see :)
     
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