Deep into Druze faith

AtheistForJesus

AtheistForJesus

Well-Known Member
For Christianity, Christ is the Truth, and we shall not deny His presence before any authority! He said, I'm the Truth, The Way, and Life!

Any true Christian is ready to the sacrifice to the Truth. So, if they are martyred as Christians, they died in Jesus name, they are with Jesus in Heaven!
And if concealing your faith will lead to less suffering and death, would you still object to it?

What is more important? To make your faith public or to lessen human suffering?

What if you were faced with a situation where you had to choose between renouncing your Christianity or risk losing your children?
 
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    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    And if concealing your faith will lead to less suffering and death, would you still object to it?

    What is more important? To make your faith public or to lessen human suffering?

    What if you were faced with a situation where you had to choose between renouncing your Christianity or risk losing your children?
    What does renouncing a religion even mean :)
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    I like the Druze name: Almuwa77edoun al Duruz. Sounds really impressive to me.
    I know that's pretty shallow in a very deep thread, but hey :)
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    Taqeyya is not a bad thing :) It is deceit but only when it is deemed necessary by the one deceiving, so it is bound by rules you see :)
    If one wants to deceive another they can quickly convert, invoke taqeyya, then convert back. Done! there even might be an App for that. :)
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    And if concealing your faith will lead to less suffering and death, would you still object to it?

    What is more important? To make your faith public or to lessen human suffering?

    What if you were faced with a situation where you had to choose between renouncing your Christianity or risk losing your children?
    I chose Jesus
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You brought up Taqiya to discredit Islam as a religion where truth doesn't matter.
    I invalidated your argument by providing an example where Christian priests had to conceal their beliefs.

    Based on what fact, other than Taqiya, did you reach the conclusion that "truth doesn't play a significant role in Islam"?
    Clearly the notion of Taqiya is not so foreign to Christianity. Otherwise, it wouldn't have reached Japan.
    1- i didn't bring up taqiya at all.
    2- i asked a simple question: what role truth plays in the ideology of islam.
    3- you guys didn't even understand the question, as if the whole notion is completely alien to you.
    4- you didn't invalidate any arguments because i didn't make any, i simply asked one question.
    5- what does theology have to do with a hollywood movie?
    6- there is no such thing as taqiya in Christianity. and i am not interested in taqiya anyway, nor am i asking about it.
    7- it then follows that it is very safe to conclude that for at least the participants in this thread, the notion of truth is not a theological component of islam.
     
    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    1- i didn't bring up taqiya at all.
    2- i asked a simple question: what role truth plays in the ideology of islam.
    3- you guys didn't even understand the question, as if the whole notion is completely alien to you.
    4- you didn't invalidate any arguments because i didn't make any, i simply asked one question.
    5- what does theology have to do with a hollywood movie?
    6- there is no such thing as taqiya in Christianity. and i am not interested in taqiya anyway, nor am i asking about it.
    7- it then follows that it is very safe to conclude that for at least the participants in this thread, the notion of truth is not a theological component of islam.
    You should ask that question in the appropriate thread.

    and even if asked, your question won't be dignified with an answer. It belittles your claim of knowledge and exposes your ignorance and deep seated hatred and bigotry. To claim a religion doesn't teach about truth and honesty, while our Prophet was called "al sadeq al amin" even by his critics and enemies in his own time. Roo7 ndab.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You should ask that question in the appropriate thread.

    and even if asked, your question won't be dignified with an answer. It belittles your claim of knowledge and exposes your ignorance and deep seated hatred and bigotry. To claim a religion doesn't teach about truth and honesty, while our Prophet was called "al sadeq al amin" even by his critics and enemies in his own time. Roo7 ndab.
    well, i was giving you the opportunity to behave like an illuminated human being by presenting you with the chance to do something right. was i asking for much? :)

    this btw summarizes your behavior throughout the whole religious threads; misdirected anger, misplaced zeal and ya 2oummet mou7ammad.

    and yes, i do know the answer to the question i asked, the purpose of the question was not to solicit an answer, but rather to catalyze your thinking process. and unfortunately you still have no clue what the question means because the notion of truth that i am referring to is obviously an alien concept to you. you still do not distinguish between the role played by the component of truth in theology and between someone being truthful; two completely different issues.

    bass ma fi lzoum t3ayet 3al 3alam w tbahdelon isa fi shi mannak fehmeno :p
     
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    Rachel Corrie

    Rachel Corrie

    Legendary Member
    well, i was giving you the opportunity to behave like an illuminated human being by presenting you with the chance to do something right. was i asking for much? :)

    this btw summarizes your behavior throughout the whole religious threads; misdirected anger, misplaced zeal and ya 2oummet mou7ammad.

    and yes, i do know the answer to the question i asked, the purpose of the question was not to solicit an answer, but rather to catalyze your thinking process. and unfortunately you still have no clue what the question means because the notion of truth that i am referring to is obviously an alien concept to you. you still do not distinguish between the role played by the component of truth in theology and between someone being truthful; two completely different issues.

    bass ma fi lzoum t3ayet 3al 3alam w tbahdelon isa fi shi mannak fehmeno :p
    You can't give what you don't have...and no one is soliciting your permission for anything.

    The usual raising of shoulders and egotistical replies far from the truth and the reality and textual and historical evidences. I hope your so called holy spirit 3am bi washweshlak shu tektob. Inspired 2al! Wlak roo7....
     
    I

    ignis

    New Member
    Have you seen the movie Silent by Scorcese?
    It raises the question of whether it is ever OK to deny your faith.

    The movie tells a story of Rodrigues, a Jesuit priest who travelled to Japan, at a time when Christianity was outlawed and punishable by death.
    He is caught at one point and forced to renounce Christianity. At first he resists, but when the Japanese threaten to torture other Christian captives, he eventually finds himself forced to practice Taqiyya in order to save their lives.

    It shows how dogmatic and suicidal Christianity can be at times.
    How many lives could have been saved had Jesus preached Taqiyya?

    Below is a summary of the plot.
    Summary of the Plot
    Christianity has been outlawed in Japan. Unless you deny your faith (‘recant’) you will be tortured and killed. But where the authorities formerly targeted priests, they have learned that Japanese Christians only grow stronger when they see the courage and strength of a priests’ faith in the face of persecution. So the Japanese inquisitor has a new strategy: keep the priest alive, and torture other people until he recants to put an end to their suffering.


    Rodrigues is proud and determined, willing to face any amount of torture for the gospel message he believes in. He suffers for others’ sake as Christ suffered. But the Portuguese Jesuit is not prepared to find that his great mentor and guide, Ferreira, recanted years ago and now lives with his Japanese wife as a Buddhist. Nor is Rodrigues prepared for the ultimate challenge: will he deny his faith to end the torture of innocent people?

    The whole movie leads slowly and inexorably up to the point of this decision, tracing the contours of Rodrigues’ struggle.

    Finally Rodrigues reaches the climactic moment of decision. “You must now do the most painful act of love to have ever been performed,” says Ferreira. It is what Ferreira did: trample on the icon of Christ, enacting the abandonment of his Christian faith. “What would Jesus do?” Ferreira adds. “He would have compassion on these people. Christ would apostatize for their sake.” And in the greatest mental confusion and anguish, Rodrigues relents and tramples the icon. The tortured bodies nearby are immediately released. It is over. He has publicly abandoned his faith and his calling as a priest, but in his heart he remains a follower of Jesus until the day he dies.
    You brought up Taqiya to discredit Islam as a religion where truth doesn't matter.
    I invalidated your argument by providing an example where Christian priests had to conceal their beliefs.

    Based on what fact, other than Taqiya, did you reach the conclusion that "truth doesn't play a significant role in Islam"?
    Clearly the notion of Taqiya is not so foreign to Christianity. Otherwise, it wouldn't have reached Japan.
    And if concealing your faith will lead to less suffering and death, would you still object to it?

    What is more important? To make your faith public or to lessen human suffering?

    What if you were faced with a situation where you had to choose between renouncing your Christianity or risk losing your children?

    Concealing and lying (or bearing false witness) are not the same thing, just as not revealing the truth and lying are separate things; one could still do the former without doing the latter.

    In reference to the movie you brought here (Silence), why should one save/love those victims in the first place? If it is because of X, then why is it because of X? if truly it is X because of Y, then one cannot coherently be considered to be loving them or to be saving their lives, all while and by bearing false witness to Y or to the causality therein, and therefore to Truth.

    The characters of Rodrigues and Ferreira and their story are a fine depiction of how the best of heretics (which could appear initially very pious, caring and thoughtful) would operate in their fall, in holding to and practicing their heresy, and the fruitlessness of their thoughts and actions on the long run, humanity-wise. True Christians (or the Saints) are made of different matter. Nothing good or meaningful abides outside or contrary to Truth. Hence, the death of the victims, in situations such as that in the film, cannot possibly be attributed to those not choosing to save/love them by choosing to bear false witness to Truth, when Truth is the very source and foundation those victims, and the very act of loving/saving them, are dependent on in the first place. In other words, had those two characters not chosen to bear fall witness to Truth, the possible death of the victims is would be attributed solely to the Japanese torturers. This is basically how Christianity spread in the worst of situations (particularly, situations like those in the early centuries).
     
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    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You can't give what you don't have...and no one is soliciting your permission for anything.

    The usual raising of shoulders and egotistical replies far from the truth and the reality and textual and historical evidences. I hope your so called holy spirit 3am bi washweshlak shu tektob. Inspired 2al! Wlak roo7....
    wouldn't it have been easier for you to provide an answer instead of going on this rampage?

    i will help you find the answer though. i think the only perception of truth in islam is from the narrow perspective of being truthful versus lying. and because the bigger notion is completely missing from the scripture, it follows that the corresponding dimension is also completely missing from islamic theology. though it is more like there is no islamic theology in the real meaning of the word because the wider notion of truth is simply a foreign notion to the islamic faith, and that dimension is essential to hold the theological structure together, and without it the structure would simply crumble, and you would be left with sporadic repetitions and loosely linked notions of the divine.

    feel free to correct me if i am wrong. but no need to do marajel, we're just talking :)

    but that aside, what is more upsetting is that our friends who tackled this issue did not understand the question, and completely missed that there is a wider meaning for truth, one that is intertwined with everything in existence.
     
    Mysobalanus

    Mysobalanus

    New Member
    You don't believe in certain rituals, you don't have a qiblah, you don't pray regularly, you don't do pilgrimages, you don't fast, you become somewhat religious at over half of your life span and you want to come teach me about spirituality?

    It seems spirituality in your mind is all about answering your surname.
    The devout monks you see in the Druze faith are secluded into meditation and religious studies from a young age. They also do not marry or engage in trade or war. But live their whole lives for spirituality.
     
    Mysobalanus

    Mysobalanus

    New Member
    In the figurative sense, all prophets are Muslims (submitting to the will of God). That's all what Islam is about.

    There was no Druze religion, sect, cult or group before Islam. You probably want to trap me. So you can say there was no Islam before Prophet Muhammad (s). But it is not the same. The word "Islam" has a meaning that suggests an action. What is the meaning of "Druze"? It is probably a word derived from the name of someone. That's not the same with Islam.
    Druze do not refer to themselves as Druze. It was name given to them by enemies. They refer to themselves as Muhwaideen or Unitarians and consider the historic figures they enlist as Unitarians. It's identical to every gnostic tradition (Islam originally being one) that claims previous historic figures as part of the religion through this method.

    For your info, no previous prophets ever declared a religion. They all declared practices and beliefs yo bring people closer to God. Islam happens to be the only religion whose name is found in its holy script and proclaimed by its founder. Jesus (a) wasn't Christian for instance. Moses (a) was Jewish by tribe, etc.
    Jesus was a Christian and even a role-model of Christianity. And he started a Christian movement that is very different than Islam. I don't think he was okay with lashing adulterers in particular. Moses was a Judaist and a role-model of Judaism and lead a movement very different than Islam.
     
    Mysobalanus

    Mysobalanus

    New Member
    Why do you bury like Muslims do? Your funeral prayer. And where do you bury your dead?
    We don't bury like Muslims do. We put our dead in small rooms built usually in the woods (similar to Maronite graves). But in our case, I'm not sure about Maronites, they're not put under the ground. The corpse remains in the coffin on top of the ground and eventually the bones are taken out and incinerated.

    The funeral prayer is Islamic as other parts of the public religion because as you said, "Islam is very peaceful and there's nobody out there to harm us". We just like to play hide and seek for the fun of it like Nusayris, Assasins, Sufis, Yazdis and Rosicrucians. It's just a habit we can't change. :)
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    I chose Jesus
    You'd choose to put your children at risk instead of concealing or denying your beliefs to save them?

    This is an example of how Christianity turns people into irrational fanatics.
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    You'd choose to put your children at risk instead of concealing or denying your beliefs to save them?

    This is an example of how Christianity turns people into irrational fanatics.
    Do you believe in God and do you trust Him?
     
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