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Deep into Islam..

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  • NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    Their dreams to make the same in Lebanon. But Lebanon is not France, we know how to maintain our values ;)
    I think that without Islam, Christianity in Lebanon would have died a long time ago, as it did in the West...

    There’s a reason why Christian Arabs/Middle Easterners are far less “liberal” than their European counterparts....
     
    Drama Queen

    Drama Queen

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think that without Islam, Christianity in Lebanon would have died a long time ago, as it did in the West...

    There’s a reason why Christian Arabs/Middle Easterners are far less “liberal” than their European counterparts....
    Do you mean to say that living in constant fear of being wiped out tends to make people lean on the conservative side?
     
    Drama Queen

    Drama Queen

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You want to ban us from Lebanon? 😳
    What Vicking meant is that France, out of compassion for refugees and passive immigration policies, is becoming more and more Islamized.
    Some cafés in Muslim neighborhoods are already banning women from entering.
    The way I see it, it's Lebanese Muslims who are are imposing their lifestyle on minorities in their areas. (Tripoli, Sour, Saida...)
    And he's absolutely right. So save me your crocodile tears please.

     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    Do you mean to say that living in constant fear of being wiped out tends to make people lean on the conservative side?
    “Living in constant fear...” Lol, this sounds like the lame whining that BLM are all about.

    In any event, no, I’m simply saying that without Islam, Christianity in Lebanon would probably have went down the same destructive and hedonistic path that it did in Western Europe.
     
    V

    vicking747

    Member
    You want to ban us from Lebanon? 😳
    Why are you twisting my words ? I don’t want Lebanon to end up being an Islamic State like Iran or Saudi. No one is banning anyone here. What about you ?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Well, it really doesn’t matter what your snarky persona thinks about any particular theological stipulation. Christians don’t follow the Law, so I’m not sure why they think they’re in some sort of superior position to mock any of its precepts, whether they come from the Islamic or Judaic tradition. Perhaps it’s attention-seeking.

    Can you please provide the Hadith number of that alleged text by Abu Hurairah? We have to be real careful with your type. The following Hadith by Aisha directly contradicts your text;

    Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490: Narrated 'Aisha:

    The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him."
    you have to be real careful with my type? what type would that be? the type that possesses more than two neurons in their brains?

    and do you not know how to search or validate you own books or the hadiths that you supposedly believe in and cherish?
    what do you know, then?


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    510 صحيح مسلم
    عن أبي ذَرٍّ رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْه، عن رسولِ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّم، قال: ((إذا قامَ أحدُكم فصَلَّى فإنَّه يَستُرُه إذا كان بَينَ يَديهِ مِثلُ آخِرَةِ الرَّحلِ، فإذا لم يكُنْ بَينَ يَديهِ مِثلُ آخِرَةِ الرَّحلِ فإنَّه يَقطَعُ صلاتَه: الحمارُ، والمرأةُ، والكلبُ الأسودُ))
    511 صحيح مسلم

    عن أبي هُرَيرةَ رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْه، قال: قال رسولُ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّم: ((يَقطَعُ الصَّلاةَ: المرأةُ، والحمارُ، والكلبُ، ويقِي ذلك مِثلُ مُؤْخِرةِ الرَّحلِ)
    رواه ابن خزيمة (831)، وابن حبان (2391). قال الألباني في ((السلسلة الصحيحة)) (3323): (إسناده صحيح رجاله ثقات رجال مسلم)
    عن أبي ذرٍّ رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْه، عنِ النبيِّ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّم، قال: ((تُعادُ الصلاةُ من ممرِّ الحمارِ، والمرأةِ، والكلبِ الأسودِ))، قلت: ما بالُ الأسودِ من الكلبِ الأصفرِ، من الكلبِ الأحمرِ؟! فقال: سألتُ رسولَ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّم كما سألتَني، فقال: ((الكلبُ الأسودُ شَيطانٌ)

    1593852993974.png
    i am curious to know, why would a donkey or a dog make your prayers void? "ah... you saw a dog.. start again."
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    you have to be real careful with my type? what type would that be? the type that possesses more than two neurons in their brains?
    No, it’s simply the case that online Christian apologists/missionaries (at least based on my own experiences) can be pretty crafty, and sometimes outright deceiving, so it’s best that we be...careful.

    In any event, I’m glad that you provided us with more information (as Islam is a religion of evidence).

    I already posted the Hadith by Aisha where she explains that she always used to pass in front of the Prophet while he was praying. Here’s another one showing where the Prophet would sometimes touch A’isha in his prayers, but nevertheless continue praying.

    Narrated Maimuna: (the wife of the Prophet) During my menses, I never prayed, but used to sit on the mat beside the mosque of Allah's Apostle. He used to offer the prayer on his sheet and in prostration some of his clothes used to touch me." ((Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 329)
    Here is yet another Hadith that shows a far more general stance toward anything or anyone that passes in front of a praying Muslim:

    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 489:

    Narrated Busr bin Said: that Zaid bin Khalid sent him to Abi Juhaim to ask him what he had heard from Allah's Apostle about a person passing in front of another person who was praying. Abu Juhaim replied, "Allah's Apostle said, 'If the person who passes in front of another person in prayer knew the magnitude of his sin he would prefer to wait for 40 (days, months or years) rather than to pass in front of him." Abu An-Nadr said, "I do not remember exactly whether he said 40 days, months or years."
    So, essentially, the Christian Missionaries are wrong for misinterpreting (or mistranslating) your Hadith. The majority of scholars and Imams have concluded that “his prayer will be cut off” is not literal and does not mean that the salat is either annulled or nullified, but that the person praying will be disturbed and distracted from the salat, possibly causing it to be less than perfect.

    Indeed, a beautiful and attractive woman passing in front of a praying man has more potential to distract him, as opposed to a regular man, hence why the Prophet mentioned a woman (and Allah knows best!).

    Interestingly, I did find one Imam opinion who asserts that only the black dog passing would actually nullify the prayer, and that’s probably because the “black dog” is considered a devil. But these are metaphysical realities that can’t really be proved either way.....
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    No, it’s simply the case that online Christian apologists/missionaries (at least based on my own experiences) can be pretty crafty, and sometimes outright deceiving, so it’s best that we be...careful.

    In any event, I’m glad that you provided us with more information (as Islam is a religion of evidence).

    I already posted the Hadith by Aisha where she explains that she always used to pass in front of the Prophet while he was praying. Here’s another one showing where the Prophet would sometimes touch A’isha in his prayers, but nevertheless continue praying.



    Here is yet another Hadith that shows a far more general stance toward anything or anyone that passes in front of a praying Muslim:



    So, essentially, the Christian Missionaries are wrong for misinterpreting (or mistranslating) your Hadith. The majority of scholars and Imams have concluded that “his prayer will be cut off” is not literal and does not mean that the salat is either annulled or nullified, but that the person praying will be disturbed and distracted from the salat, possibly causing it to be less than perfect.

    Indeed, a beautiful and attractive woman passing in front of a praying man has more potential to distract him, as opposed to a regular man, hence why the Prophet mentioned a woman (and Allah knows best!).

    Interestingly, I did find one Imam opinion who asserts that only the black dog passing would actually nullify the prayer, and that’s probably because the “black dog” is considered a devil. But these are metaphysical realities that can’t really be proved either way.....
    i have no respect for weasels. a purely islamic issue and a subject of contradiction between different hadiths which collectively or individually make no sense, is now thrown on the shoulder of Christian missionaries and mistranslation :lol::lol: and despite mainstream official islamic authorities supporting the validity of the hadith in a direct response to this very question, you still want to lie and deny it.

    these hadiths are yet more evidences to the necessity of the reforms that islamic scholars need to begin on their own scriptures, the size and the weight of these reforms are considerable and they are becoming more urgent with every passing day.


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    source
     
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    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    i have no respect for weasels. a purely islamic issue and a subject of contradiction between different hadiths which collectively or individually make no sense, is now thrown on the shoulder of Christian missionaries and mistranslation :lol::lol: and despite mainstream official islamic authorities supporting the validity of the hadith in a direct response to this very question, you still want to lie and deny it.
    1. Unsubstantiated conjecture. If they don’t make sense to you, that’s not our problem. Perhaps you should stick to “Jesus loves me!” rather than immerse yourself in the nuanced and complicated science of Hadith studies....

    2. No one is dying the validity of the Hadith, so I’m not sure what you’re on about....
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    1. Unsubstantiated conjecture. If they don’t make sense to you, that’s not our problem. Perhaps you should stick to “Jesus loves me!” rather than immerse yourself in the nuanced and complicated science of Hadith studies....
    i guess i'll just have to miss out on keeping a watchful eye for donkeys and black dogs. bummer.
    the word of choices that you should have opted for is "intricate".

    2. No one is dying the validity of the Hadith, so I’m not sure what you’re on about....
    religious trolls are quite rare these days, you have this going for you. but perhaps it was not always so in the past though, as evidenced by the narrations mr abu huraira and others, which fail to meet even the standards of the seventh century.

    for if we contemplate where the state of mind of other people were in that era, and taking for an example maximus the confessor (580-662) - one of abu huraira's contemporaries, who unfortunately remained far from attaining abu huraira's pinnacle of spirituality, climax of wisdom, well deserved fame, and the leading role of culminating keen human faculties in the explicit analysis of the impact that donkeys, women and dogs (in that order) could have on prayers - said on this subject:

    “He who truly loves God prays entirely without distraction, and he who prays entirely without distraction loves God truly. But he whose intellect is fixed on any worldly thing does not pray without distraction, and consequently he does not love God.”
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    i guess i'll just have to miss out on keeping a watchful eye for donkeys and black dogs. bummer.
    the word of choices that you should have opted for is "intricate".

    religious trolls are quite rare these days, you have this going for you. but perhaps it was not always so in the past though, as evidenced by the narrations mr abu huraira and others, which fail to meet even the standards of the seventh century.
    I was expecting a serious argument, but all I got was the usual snide and snarky remarks. Better luck next time I suppose....

    for if we contemplate where the state of mind of other people were in that era, and taking for an example maximus the confessor (580-662) - one of abu huraira's contemporaries, who unfortunately remained far from attaining abu huraira's pinnacle of spirituality, climax of wisdom, well deserved fame, and the leading role of culminating keen human faculties in the explicit analysis of the impact that donkeys, women and dogs (in that order) could have on prayers - said on this subject:

    “He who truly loves God prays entirely without distraction, and he who prays entirely without distraction loves God truly. But he whose intellect is fixed on any worldly thing does not pray without distraction, and consequently he does not love God.”
    Touching! However, someone should tell this Mr. Maximus that there are varying degrees to one’s love and attachment to God.

    Ergo, there is no harm in one (especially one who’s heart still clings to the dunya) taking the necessary precautions to avoid any possible material and metaphysical distractions.

    Of course, there are countless of narrations that show how the Prophet, or his companions, or the many saints and friends of God that prayed in a state where they seemed utterly detached from the physical world....
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I was expecting a serious argument, but all I got was the usual snide and snarky remarks. Better luck next time I suppose....
    we can safely presume that serious arguments went down the drain with the donkey, the woman and the dog theory, wouldn't you say?

    in reality we do not need to go further to test this odd perception of the Divine and the spiritual, and that of mankind as well.

    Touching! However, someone should tell this Mr. Maximus that there are varying degrees to one’s love and attachment to God.
    very touching, coming from someone who bases his spirituality on the likes of abou hourayra.
    and oh yes, we'll be right to that after you send someone to tell mr abou hourayra how ridiculous his perception of prayer is.

    Ergo, there is no harm in one (especially one who’s heart still clings to the dunya) taking the necessary precautions to avoid any possible material and metaphysical distractions.
    in particular when this "metaphysical distraction" is a black dog or a donkey; unlike of course a camel or a sheep; for the black dog is obviously a devil, as we all presently know:
    سألتُ رسولَ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّم كما سألتَني، فقال: الكلبُ الأسودُ شَيطانٌ

    Of course, there are countless of narrations that show how the Prophet, or his companions, or the many saints and friends of God that prayed in a state where they seemed utterly detached from the physical world....
    of course, there are hundreds of thousands of narrations, about anything and everything, many of them contradict each other, and the majority of them are not even on par with the ethical standards of even the 6th century. so there is indeed no shortage of narrations about any subject, there is also no shortage of evidence that most if not all of these narrations are made up, let alone by people who have no perception of neither the Divne and the spiritual nor the human dimensions.

    but keep arguing, by all means.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    we can safely presume that serious arguments went down the drain with the donkey, the woman and the dog theory, wouldn't you say?


    in reality we do not need to go further to test this odd perception of the Divine and the spiritual, and that of mankind as well.
    This reminds of me a passage from the Quran;

    Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient.*
    Like I explained to you before, your arrogant and smug perceptions of particular Muslim stipulations has nothing to do with anything, besides your own natural expression to prove something about yourself (and that your god is bigger than mine).

    Son, I’m concerned with Reality. I’m not interested in what may or may not make sense to you because your too far up your ass to deal with the issue in an objective and non-personal attitude.

    very touching, coming from someone who bases his spirituality on the likes of abou hourayra.
    and oh yes, we'll be right to that after you send someone to tell mr abou hourayra how ridiculous his perception of prayer is.
    As per usual, you don’t counter the argument, but just bring up more insecurities. I’m not taking your bait, boy.


    in particular when this "metaphysical distraction" is a black dog or a donkey; unlike of course a camel or a sheep; for the black dog is obviously a devil, as we all presently know:
    سألتُ رسولَ اللهِ صلَّى اللهُ عليه وسلَّم كما سألتَني، فقال: الكلبُ الأسودُ شَيطانٌ


    You’re absolutely right it’s the devil. If the average human finds such a notion ludicrous, good for him! But he’s only limiting himself to ego-based perceptions of existence. No, the Muslim submits to Reality, and not to the vain and modern thought-conceptions of the so-called “intellectual class.”


    of course, there are hundreds of thousands of narrations, about anything and everything, many of them contradict each other, and the majority of them are not even on par with the ethical standards of even the 6th century. so there is indeed no shortage of narrations about any subject, there is also no shortage of evidence that most if not all of these narrations are made up, let alone by people who have no perception of neither the Divne and the spiritual nor the human dimensions.

    but keep arguing, by all means.
    Oh, I’m not arguing. I’m merely reflecting your own narrow-minded and ego-based approach right back at you.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    This reminds of me a passage from the Quran;

    Like I explained to you before, your arrogant and smug perceptions of particular Muslim stipulations has nothing to do with anything, besides your own natural expression to prove something about yourself (and that your god is bigger than mine).

    Son, I’m concerned with Reality. I’m not interested in what may or may not make sense to you because your too far up your ass to deal with the issue in an objective and non-personal attitude.
    there is nothing arrogant and smug about point out the emperor has no clothes. in reality i am simply deflating your arrogance, by serving you a bitter dose of reality to keep your feet on the ground.

    As per usual, you don’t counter the argument, but just bring up more insecurities. I’m not taking your bait, boy.
    there was no arguments to be countered. i am keeping you focused on the main issue.

    You’re absolutely right it’s the devil. If the average human finds such a notion ludicrous, good for him! But he’s only limiting himself to ego-based perceptions of existence. No, the Muslim submits to Reality, and not to the vain and modern thought-conceptions of the so-called “intellectual class.”
    the muslim submits to the reality that a black dog is the devil, instead of modern and vain thought-conceptions of the so-called "intellectual class".

    it won't be long until this house of cards collapses my friend, let's hope it won't implode with a boom. though i have to admit, like the "average human" notion that you are forwarding :lol:

    Oh, I’m not arguing. I’m merely reflecting your own narrow-minded and ego-based approach right back at you.
    yes of course, i am narrow minded because i cannot see that a black dog is in actuality the devil.

    at any rate this subject received all the attention it deserves. any other treasures you want to share with us?
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    yes of course, i am narrow minded because i cannot see that a black dog is in actuality the devil.
    No, you are narrow-minded because you do not consider the potential metaphysical and quantum mechanical forms that these things can manifest on any particular dimensional level.
     
    L

    Lemon

    Well-Known Member
    I'm 50% certain that NewLeb is some sort of parody. Talking shoes? And now black dogs being "potential metaphysical and quantum mechanical forms"? Hmm.
     
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