Deep into judaism

compol

compol

Member
This thread is dedicated to judaism.

Personally, I do not like this religion, neither do I like hinduism, because contrary to other religions like christianity, islam or buddhism, it's not universalizing. You can't convert (except in some very rare cases) to judaism (nor to hinduism). This might explain why Israel and India are the 2 most racist countries on earth...
 
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  • Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
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    Jews: how do you know your religion is the truth? :biggrin:
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    This thread is dedicated to judaism.

    Personally, I do not like this religion, neither do I like hinduism, because contrary to other religions like christianity, islam or buddhism, it's not universalizing. You can't convert (except in some very rare cases) to judaism (nor to hinduism). This might explain why Israel and India are the 2 most racist countries on earth...
    You can convert to Judaism, but it's difficult. It also tests your persistence and seriousness about becoming a Jew.

    If you wish to become a Jew, all you have to do is go to a local rabbi. He will reject you three times, but will start considering your conversion on the fourth visit. Then you'll appear in a beth din (rabbianical court) in front of 3 dayanim (judges) to start the conversion process.

    After that, you'll engage in a lengthy process of becoming a Jew, that includes learning Hebrew and Babylonian Aramaic (to read the Talmud), as well as other material to learn about Judaism and the Tanach. Of course, this costs a lot of money because you have to buy the material they sell you.

    Orthodox rabbis demand a lot in the conversion process. Conservative and Reform rabbis are usually less demanding.

    After the conversion process, you will be handed a certificate that basically says you're a Jew.

    Jews do not preach religion, however, and it is illegal in Israel to persuade anyone to convert. Being a Jew, however, is different than being "Jewish." Judaism doesn't purport to be the utmost beacon of Jewishness.

    As for the "racism" allegation, ever been to Israel? Such a friendly nation. Also, you surely have not checked the historical timeline of "Christian" Europe and the Islamic "Umma" otherwise you would not be making such an ignorant statement.
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    This thread is dedicated to judaism.

    Personally, I do not like this religion, neither do I like hinduism, because contrary to other religions like christianity, islam or buddhism, it's not universalizing. You can't convert (except in some very rare cases) to judaism (nor to hinduism). This might explain why Israel and India are the 2 most racist countries on earth...
    Some corrections need to be done here.

    Hinduism has been the most peaceful religion in history.

    Judaism, like or not is the main religion behind Christianity and especially Islam.

    And I love how people are forced to persist and study in order to become Jewish. Knowledge seems to be so rooted within the jewish community.

    So much more logical than conversions for example to Islam where anyone can say the shahada without any knowledge and become a number.
    A study in the US found that 80% of converts to Islam leave the faith after they do more studies after their conversion. I know at least a couple.
     
    Gandalf

    Gandalf

    New Member
    Some corrections need to be done here.

    Hinduism has been the most peaceful religion in history.

    Judaism, like or not is the main religion behind Christianity and especially Islam.

    And I love how people are forced to persist and study in order to become Jewish. Knowledge seems to be so rooted within the jewish community.

    So much more logical than conversions for example to Islam where anyone can say the shahada without any knowledge and become a number.
    A study in the US found that 80% of converts to Islam leave the faith after they do more studies after their conversion. I know at least a couple.
    Buddhism is the only religion where GOD did not create soldiers to fight for him.

    If I had to chose between many religions on Earth I would Either chose to follow Jesus or Buddhism....(If I was born without religion)

    Actually if you read the Mahabharata and Bahgavat gita you will see that Arjuna used to kill, but Krishna (GOD) tried to explain to him about murder and war and that it is not right, Arjuna didnt understand until he had to kill his relatives...So then he knew that everyone has relatives, loved ones, and as much as he thinks he is right the other enemy thinks he is right too..

    Judaism is the basic of our poisoned minds...we kill for GOD..it came from them...GOD is ALMIGHTY will punish ect..
    Believe in Yahwe or die, do this or I perish you, do that or you have my wrath..oh come on, this god is very demanding, jealous, and very egoistic he rarely expressed love and affection towards his creatures.. He destroyed all creature in a flood, destroyed babylon, Sodom Gomoroh ect..oh come on...

    Sure there was an alien creature who wanted to rule us and use this planet for some purpose but please dont call him GOD as Egyptians used to do to their Pharaohs ...

     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
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    Here's what I like about Judaism, that I find unique out of all other religions:

    1. No hell :)
    2. They don't care about preaching

    That's it. Everything else is very much the same as the others.
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    Maybe because Abraham, jacob, ishmael, Noah, Moses and king Salomon were all Jewish :clever:
    They were not 'Jews'. They had no 'religion'. Abraham was a monotheist and all messengers after him (and before him) followed the rituals and monotheistic beliefs of Abraham. Judaism came from the Rabbis at the time of Moses. The Torah in your hands calls them 'Jews' because Jew is an ethnic term in it and Jews believe all Prophets are theirs.
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    Some corrections need to be done here.

    Hinduism has been the most peaceful religion in history.

    Judaism, like or not is the main religion behind Christianity and especially Islam.

    And I love how people are forced to persist and study in order to become Jewish. Knowledge seems to be so rooted within the jewish community.

    So much more logical than conversions for example to Islam where anyone can say the shahada without any knowledge and become a number.
    A study in the US found that 80% of converts to Islam leave the faith after they do more studies after their conversion. I know at least a couple.[

    One who ridicules an immaculate conception, Angels appearing to Jesus and Mary, Jesus speaking to Satan and performing miracles, then him rising from the dead and later prophecied to come down from the heavens with angels clouds and trumpets?

    It doesn't take 'studies' for anyone to come to the belief in something. That's bull. When you believe in something you do so in your mind and that's all it takes. No words no music no rituals. Faith is made complex by man made rules.
     
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    compol

    compol

    Member
    For the racism allegations, I have some proofs:
    @Genius:
    The indian society is based on a caste system, which is nothing else than pure racism, according to the UN itself.
    Here is a very interesting study on racism, notice that India is clearly one of the most racist countries on earth:
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...untries-britian-tolerant-survey/1/271586.html

    @Muki:
    I think racism is also inherent to judaism itself, jews consider themselves as the "chosen people", thus considering themselves as a superior "race". According to both zionists and nazis, Judaism is not only a religion, but also a race, (of course, this is total ********, Shlomo Sand had written very interesting books on their true origin.. for instance, Ashkenazis are not Hebrew but from the "Khazar" tribe, from Eastern Europe).
    Israel is extremely racist, the government sterilized ethiopian jews, according to Forbes and Haaretz. The Israeli government also irradiated 100,000 Israeli sephradi kids, it's the infamous Ringworm affair.
    Three of my close friends went to Jerusalem, they told me that they felt a very strong anti-goyim racism in West Jerusalem. Even traders hate tourists. One of them also spent some time in Haifa, and told me that people are more friendly there.

    Muki: you are jewish, right?
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    You can convert to Judaism, but it's difficult. It also tests your persistence and seriousness about becoming a Jew.

    If you wish to become a Jew, all you have to do is go to a local rabbi. He will reject you three times, but will start considering your conversion on the fourth visit. Then you'll appear in a beth din (rabbianical court) in front of 3 dayanim (judges) to start the conversion process.

    After that, you'll engage in a lengthy process of becoming a Jew, that includes learning Hebrew and Babylonian Aramaic (to read the Talmud), as well as other material to learn about Judaism and the Tanach. Of course, this costs a lot of money because you have to buy the material they sell you.

    Orthodox rabbis demand a lot in the conversion process. Conservative and Reform rabbis are usually less demanding.

    After the conversion process, you will be handed a certificate that basically says you're a Jew.

    Jews do not preach religion, however, and it is illegal in Israel to persuade anyone to convert. Being a Jew, however, is different than being "Jewish." Judaism doesn't purport to be the utmost beacon of Jewishness.

    As for the "racism" allegation, ever been to Israel? Such a friendly nation. Also, you surely have not checked the historical timeline of "Christian" Europe and the Islamic "Umma" otherwise you would not be making such an ignorant statement.
    What if you can prove that some of your ancestors were Jewish? Does that make the conversion process easier?
     
    gilthemaster

    gilthemaster

    Well-Known Member
    They were not 'Jews'. They had no 'religion'. Abraham was a monotheist and all messengers after him (and before him) followed the rituals and monotheistic beliefs of Abraham. Judaism came from the Rabbis at the time of Moses. The Torah in your hands calls them 'Jews' because Jew is an ethnic term in it and Jews believe all Prophets are theirs.
    R u denying God giving Moses the 10 commandments? By the way, the Jews or Judaism don' t believe in all prophets r theirs. They don't believe in Jesus nor Mohammed
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    R u denying God giving Moses the 10 commandments? By the way, the Jews or Judaism don' t believe in all prophets r theirs. They don't believe in Jesus nor Mohammed
    No, I'm not denying Moses' prophethood :) I pointed out that Judaism is the religion of the Rabbis, whereas Jew is used to refer to an ethnicity; the Israelites.

    Jews believe all Prophets before Moses are theirs. Of course they don't believe in Jesus and Mohammad.
     
    compol

    compol

    Member
    I pointed out that Judaism is the religion of the Rabbis.
    That's talmudo-judaism, practised by 99.9% of the jews. Samaritans are the true israelites and they don't believe in the talmud.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    @Muki:
    I think racism is also inherent to judaism itself, jews consider themselves as the "chosen people", thus considering themselves as a superior "race". According to both zionists and nazis, Judaism is not only a religion, but also a race, (of course, this is total ********, Shlomo Sand had written very interesting books on their true origin.. for instance, Ashkenazis are not Hebrew but from the "Khazar" tribe, from Eastern Europe).

    Three of my close friends went to Jerusalem, they told me that they felt a very strong anti-goyim racism in West Jerusalem. Even traders hate tourists. One of them also spent some time in Haifa, and told me that people are more friendly there.

    Muki: you are jewish, right?
    If you want me to continue to take you seriously, you won't continue to bring in such anti-Semitic garbage mixing Jews and Khazars. I have neither the time nor the energy to present the documented facts and scientific evidence to the contrary of this, but from the looks of it you have a personal vendetta against Jews (following your posts here) and therefore you aren't worthy of me wasting my time. All it takes is some independent research, albeit from sources which have merit and credibility.

    The concept of "chosen people" has nothing to do with racial superiority. This allegation is anti-Semitic in nature and has been used to stigmatize and persecute Jews throughout the world. The concept of "chosen people" is strictly religious, describing the relationship between god and the Jews. That means that Jews have more duties than non-Jews, and that's where it ends. Of course this shouldn't be surprising to you, because the same concept is found in Islam (my guess is that it was plagiarized off of Judaic scripture). The concept of a dhimmi in Islam is very similar to the concept of "chosen people".

    Race is a superficial term. Jews are an ethnic group, just as they are adherents of a religion.

    I feel weird in Jerusalem when I go, and I am a Jew. Too many religious people live there. Try Tel Aviv or Haifa or any of the coastal cities, these are more representative of the general population.

    Israel is extremely racist, the government sterilized ethiopian jews, according to Forbes and Haaretz. The Israeli government also irradiated 100,000 Israeli sephradi kids, it's the infamous Ringworm affair.
    The government of Israel is not perfect, but these instances aren't incomparable to the racism of other countries, for Israel to be singled out. Even if for the sake of argument I was to give in to your allegation of Israel's racism, is Israel still sterilizing Ethiopian Jews? No. Though the act is despicable and mind you, it was condemned mainly by Israelis and it caused large uproar within Israeli intellectual circles.

    As far as the ringworm affair, the answer lies within the Wikipedia page you cited, under the Scientific findings header.

    What if you can prove that some of your ancestors were Jewish? Does that make the conversion process easier?
    Nope, the formal conversion process does not change. You can believe in everything that Orthodox Jews believe in, but if you have not gone through the formal conversion process, you remain a non-Jew.

    What should be understood, though, is that converting to Judaism is not the main aspect of a person's Jewishness. Ethnicity is important. Therefore, if you can prove that your ancestors were Jews, then you are a Jew. Most denominations of Judaism pay special attention to maternal ancestors, but some liberal Jewish denominations do not care as long as the person in question identifies as a Jew.

    []
     
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    F

    false Morel

    New Member
    As for the "racism" allegation, ever been to Israel? Such a friendly nation.
    I know many Europeans who went to Israel, all for academic reasons, most of them didn't enjoy the experience and went back disappointed with the state and the people there!
    Mostly because of the extremism, even among young generations, to be witnessed there. They seem friendly from the outside, smiling and welcoming.. But when one knows them better, some malice and repulsion starts to surf..

    And you think there is a difference between a race and an ethnic in concept?!
    Anyone, not just Jews, differentiating between humans on basis of religion, race, ethnicity, or nationalism is to my understanding an anti-humanist! These are all form of human discrimination!

    Now of course not all Israelis are like that. No question about that. There are certainly intellectuals and activists who understand the situation down there pretty well. And are open to real and effective communication and connections! But these are a minority. Lost among the brainwashed and extremist crowds!

    And of course all this extremism has its root in Judaism! Same as majority of Christians and Muslims are on the same line of thought..
     
    compol

    compol

    Member
    If you want me to continue to take you seriously, you won't continue to bring in such anti-Semitic garbage mixing Jews and Khazars. I have neither the time nor the energy to present the documented facts and scientific evidence to the contrary of this
    Are you accusing Shlomo Sand, a famous israeli jew historian of being anti-semitic? The only ones who considered jews as an ethnic group were: the nazis and the zionists.
    Is the story of the Berber Queen Kahina who converted to judaism and converted her tribe to judaism also false? (And her tribe followed her by converting to judaism).
    I'm interested in any serious "documented facts and scientific evidence to the contrary of this". I made a research, I did not find anything convincing.

    Why do you say that I am antisemitic because I said that Samaritans are the only jews who do not follow the Talmud? It's written in wikipedia. Is wikipedia anti-semitic too? Did I say somewhere that all talmudic jews should be killed? No! I was just correcting Dalzi's imprecise statement.
    I have nothing against talmudic jews ;)
    I have nothing against moderate zionists who really seek to bring peace by promoting a 2-states-solution.
    I have indeed a hatred againt extremist zionists who want to annex the West Bank and Gaza to Israel and wish to expell all the remaining arabs in historic Palestine to Jordan. This is typically the wish of all ultranationalists israelis like Meir Kahane for instance.

    "He later became known in the United States and Israel for political and religious views that included proposing emergency Jewish mass-immigration to Israel due to the imminent threat of a "second Holocaust" in the United States, advocating that Israel's democracy be replaced by a state modeled on Jewish law, and promoting the idea of a Greater Israel in which Israel would annex the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In order to keep Arabs, whom he stated would never accept Israel as a Jewish state, from becoming a numerical majority in Israel, he proposed a plan allowing Arabs to leave Israel and receive compensation for their property, and forcibly removing Arabs who refused."
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

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    Orange Room Supporter
    Although this has little to do with the subject matter, I'd like to point out that whenever my Lebanese compatriots here criticize Judaism for being racist, please keep in mind that we Lebanese lot are THE most racist group of people on earth. So please keep things in perspectives. Yes, Israel has its faults (other than the main issues we are at war with), but its humanity far suprecedes ours (if we have any).
     
    compol

    compol

    Member
    Although this has little to do with the subject matter, I'd like to point out that whenever my Lebanese compatriots here criticize Judaism for being racist, please keep in mind that we Lebanese lot are THE most racist group of people on earth. So please keep things in perspectives. Yes, Israel has its faults (other than the main issues we are at war with), but its humanity far suprecedes ours (if we have any).
    Lebanese are undoubtfully very racist.
    But there is a crucial difference between the israeli and the lebanese case. Israel is officially a "jewish" state, eventhough 20% of its citizens are non-jews. The israeli national anthem refers only to jews:
    As long as in the heart, within,
    A Jewish soul still yearns,
    And onward, towards the ends of the east,
    An eye still gazes toward Zion;
    Our hope is not yet lost,
    The hope of two thousand years,
    To be a free people in our land
    The land of Zion and Jerusalem.

    While the lebanese constitution states that Lebanon is multiconfessional, and gives nearly equal rights for every religion. (even if in my opinion secterianism should be replaced by secularism to get perfect equality for all citizens, but this is impossible in practise in a religious society, because minorities will consider that this is unfair)
    Now see the difference between the anthem above and the lebanese nachid:
    All of us! For our Country, for our Flag and Glory!
    Our valor and our writings are the envy of the ages.
    Our mountain and our valley, they bring forth stalwart men.
    And to Perfection we devote our words and labor.
    All of us! For our Country, for our Flag and Glory!
    All of us! For our Country
    Our Elders and our children, they await our Country's call,
    And on the Day of Crisis they are as Lions of the Jungle.
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Lebanese are undoubtfully very racist.
    But there is a crucial difference between the israeli and the lebanese case. Israel is officially a "jewish" state, eventhough 20% of its citizens are non-jews. The israeli national anthem refers only to jews:
    As long as in the heart, within,
    A Jewish soul still yearns,
    And onward, towards the ends of the east,
    An eye still gazes toward Zion;
    Our hope is not yet lost,
    The hope of two thousand years,
    To be a free people in our land
    The land of Zion and Jerusalem.

    While the lebanese constitution states that Lebanon is multiconfessional, and gives nearly equal rights for every religion. (even if in my opinion secterianism should be replaced by secularism to get perfect equality for all citizens, but this is impossible in practise in a religious society, because minorities will consider that this is unfair)
    Now see the difference between the anthem above and the lebanese nachid:
    All of us! For our Country, for our Flag and Glory!
    Our valor and our writings are the envy of the ages.
    Our mountain and our valley, they bring forth stalwart men.
    And to Perfection we devote our words and labor.
    All of us! For our Country, for our Flag and Glory!
    All of us! For our Country
    Our Elders and our children, they await our Country's call,
    And on the Day of Crisis they are as Lions of the Jungle.
    Unfortunately for us, our fore-fathers were more progressive and understanding of the meaning of humanity. Too bad it's all ink on paper only.
     
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