Do you think the eletricity sector should be privatized ?

Do you think the eletricity sector should be privatized ?

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Jo

Jo

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Future MP calls for privatization of electricity sector

BEIRUT: Future MP Mohammad Qabbani on Monday called for the privatization of Lebanon’s electricity sector, saying that the country cannot afford to invest in energy production.

Qabbani, who also heads the Parliamentary Energy Committee, said in a news conference that Lebanon must move towards the private sector to increase electricity generation.

He justified his position by stating that he was echoing the sentiments of late Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, who he said “was the first to suggest this in 2002.”

The MP was making references to law 462 that determines the rules and principles governing the electricity sector, including the role of the government and the basis on which it can be transferred wholly or partially to the private sector.

Qabbani also cited a proposal by former Tripoli MP Robert Fadel that called on the inclusion of the private sector in 2014.

According to local media, Energy and Water Minister Cesar Abi Khalil declared earlier this month that the ongoing Syrian refugee crisis is straining Lebanon’s already inadequate electricity infrastructure.

“There [is a] necessity of generating an additional 486 megawatts to cater to the electricity usage of displaced Syrians,” Abi Khalil said. “In terms of cost, this is equivalent to $333 million per year.”

Lebanon is plagued with frequent power cuts and outdated infrastructure.

It is common for residents to pay additional costs for external generators, if they can afford it.

"The state authorities cannot bear to spend more on producing electirity," Qabbani told reporters.

The MP hailed Lebanese Forces chief Samir Geagea, who said on Sunday, that the LF’s three ministers and eight lawmakers would not vote for the 2017 budget, currently debated by the Cabinet, unless the government decided to privatize electricity production in a bid to reduce the endemic deficit in the state-run Electricite du Liban company’s budget and ensure power supply around the clock.

“The party’s ministers and lawmakers will not vote for the budget unless the electricity production is commissioned to the private sector to ensure around-the-clock power supply,” Geagea told LBCI.

He said that the privatization of the electricity production would save the state $1.5 billion annually, in addition to millions of dollars for Lebanese citizens paying monthly subscription fees for private generators.

Source: Future MP calls for privatization of electricity sector | News , Lebanon News | THE DAILY STAR
 
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  • Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    But not with the Saudis
     
    light-in-dark

    light-in-dark

    Legendary Member
    Here in Canada Hydro one Ontario or Hydro Quebec are money sources for governments. So lets Palestinian, Shia and Syrian refugees pay electricity bills or let HA,amal and UNRWA or NGOs for the Syrian visitors pay instead. Let the responsibles of the state and deputies especially the rich people pay also the electricity bill, then we will be able paying a part of our International debts for the world bank.
    Privatization of electricity sector will be the benefit for certain millionaires only in their pockets.
    Petrol and electricity should be sources for Lebanese Treasury.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    hariri senior in the past usurped power in an attempt to buy EDL. this is why there was no real attempts to renovate the sector and the investments were diverted elsewhere, he was intentionally letting EDL slide under loads of debt so that he would get to buy it and turn afterwards into a profitable goose that lays golden eggs. he offered to buy it for 1$.

    fast forward into the present, some political forces are not simply opposed to fixing the sector, but they are also preventing any attempts to reform it. we need to understand why that is, why are they doing their best to keep Lebanon in the dark. this borders on great treason which could lead to execution by law, albeit i am opposed to capital punishment.

    there is also the fact that the weight of the bills is falling mainly upon the Christian shoulders, so EDL is operating as a wealth redistribution system, which could explain some of the attitudes described above.

    with people like birri, jumblat and others in power privatizing the sector will not change all that much.
     
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    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    Not sure exactly what would be solved by privatizing.
    From a pure investment point of view it would be mad to privatize before the slated enhancements which have a rather high ROI.
     
    L

    lebanese1

    Legendary Member
    This topic is non-existent at all for the time being. It was raised by Geagea to send a specific political message. Let's not fall in the trap.
     
    L

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    Privitazion will work on two conditions either decentralization which mean the region who don't pay no electricy or the state flex its muscles and oblige everyone to pay in return for electricy provided by private sectors; what is sure the status quo cannot remain, we need 2 billions dollars to build new utilities, we don't have them:Dplus more than 1 billion lost every year and the Lebanese paying 2 billions dollars to generators. This topic is relevant , political leaders are calling for it plus there is a law in parliament which will allow partial privatization; by the way maintenance and collections of bills are done already by private companies;
     
    light-in-dark

    light-in-dark

    Legendary Member
    As the NGOs can provide private education for refugges and for Palestinian camps why can't they provide privat energy or electricity for all camps in Lebanon.
    Look here the education problems have been almost resolved for Syrian refugges kids.
    For Syrian refugees in Lebanon, a drive to build community amid pressing challenges

    Communities spring up in the buildings and spaces where families manage to find a spot. Many refugees say their hope is in giving their children a better future.

    By Joanne Leedom-Ackerman, Contributor February 27, 2017

    Syrian refugee girls play a basketball game earlier this month at a private sports club in southern Beirut, Lebanon. Every Sunday, the gymnasium echoes with the shouting and laughter of dozens of children, mostly Syrian refugees enjoying a rare escape from a difficult and cloistered life in exile. The Sport 4 Development program, run by the UN children's agency, aims to bring 12,000 children, mostly Syrian refugees, to blacktops and turf pitches this year to teach the basics of soccer and basketball, and to ease the pain of war and displacement. (Hussein Malla/AP )

    Beirut, Lebanon
    I remember Syrian children living by a garbage dump near a cement factory where their parents did menial labor when I visited Lebanon three years ago. I remember those living in an unfinished shopping mall with open storefronts, several families camped in a space supposed to be a shop, except that the developer had run out of money and never finished the building. Now he could collect rent from the refugees.

    Syrian refugees were pouring into Lebanon in 2014, fleeing the civil war. The United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR) and nongovernmental organizations were scrambling to register and provide services for these families, most of whom hoped to return to Syria when the war was over. Because Lebanon has a history dating back to the Palestinian diaspora of not providing camps for refugees, the displaced were finding shelter wherever they could. The effort to get children into schools was beginning. One aid worker described the situation as trying to give cups of water to people from a blasting firehose.

    I recently returned to Lebanon to visit the Syrian refugees. I was in Beirut when President Trump’s edict on immigration and his ban on all Syrian refugees to the United States was announced. The ban included Syrian families in Lebanon who had been going through the long vetting process to resettle in the US. Lebanon has the largest percentage of refugees given its population – more than 1 million registered in a country of 4.5 million citizens.

    The situation in Lebanon remains deeply challenging, with pressing needs. But it has stabilized. The flow of people across the border is now a trickle, not a flood, and the systems to assist are more firmly in place. When the refugee population hit the 1 million mark, Lebanon changed its open border policy. But the Syrian refugees remain more than 20 percent of Lebanon’s population, the equivalent of 64 million in the US. Last year the United States accepted 10,000 Syrian refugees out of an estimated 4.8 million worldwide.

    Three years ago, Lebanon had only 150 schools that had split shifts, teaching the Syrian children in the afternoon. Today half of the Syrian children are in government schools – more than 200,000 children, according to UNHCR officials. UNHCR pays the Lebanese Ministry of Education $600 per child to assist in the cost. Some children may be enrolled in private schools, according to officials, though the remaining are still not in school, including those who work to bring in income for their families, and, in the case of girls, those who are married off as young as 14 or 15.

    Writing plays and tutoring in French
    A difficulty for Syrian school children is language; Lebanese schools teach in French or English in addition to Arabic. One 12-year-old girl dressed in black headscarf practiced French with a local volunteer in a homework support group. The girl has been living in Lebanon for 3-1/2 years. She was in fifth grade when she left Syria, but she’s lost years of schooling, and because she doesn’t know French, she is now placed in third grade. She is friends with some of the Syrian children in her school, but with few Lebanese children. “They don’t like to talk about the same things,” she said. “What do you like to talk about?” I asked. “I want to talk about the war.”


    A Syrian girl practices her French through a program sponsored by UNHCR and Save the Children. Joanne Leedom-Ackerman
    Hasan, 13 years old, remembers going to school in Aleppo, and has been in Lebanon three years. He’s glad to be in school again, but he too has lost several years of education and is in an early elementary class.

    For elementary school children, the transition is not as difficult since they can learn French or English, but older Syrian students are struggling. Homework support groups have grown up and are sustained by UNHCR and Save the Children. In Batroun, a town in the North, a Lebanese teacher volunteers twice a week to tutor French. Other outreach volunteers assist in other subjects. One young man, Joseph, helps the children by writing plays and doing small theater productions with them. A Syrian, he receives his work expenses and training. But, he said, “I volunteered to help my people. At the beginning I wanted to volunteer in any sector, but I believe education is very important. I started a small theatrical team, selected the children, wrote small plays with a message, and we perform in a small garden Saturday or Sunday for the community.”

    Building communities has been essential for the children and their families, especially since return to Syria remains problematic. These communities grow up in the buildings and spaces where the families live. Approximately 60 percent of the refugees rent apartments, often crowding several families into one or two rooms, carpets and pillows on the floor, a single television in the corner, a light bulb on the ceiling. UNHCR has helped in reconstruction of buildings with an agreement from the landlords that they will rent at reduced rates to the Syrian refugees for a period. Other refugees have built temporary shelters on the roadside. Simple wood frames with tarps and plastic sheeting dot the landscape in the north, perched on farmers’ land where refugee men and women work in fields of orange groves, olives, cucumbers, and potatoes.


    A child runs through a passageway amid wood frames with tarps and plastic sheeting that refugees have set up on farmers’ land, where they work in fields of orange groves, olives, cucumbers, and potatoes. Joanne Leedom-Ackerman
    Guests, with work restrictions
    The Lebanese government has said it is treating the Syrians as “guests” and does not deport them, but the government restricts where the Syrians can work. To get a residency permit, they have to agree not to work except in agriculture, construction, or environment (cleaning) – all low-wage areas. The government also requires that refugees re-register every six months, paying $200 per person over 15 years of age. The cost is prohibitive for many families, so the men in particular live in fear that they will be arrested for not having proper registration, and this limits their mobility in finding employment, according to aid workers.

    While refugee services from the UN, nongovernmental organizations, and the Lebanese government have increased in recent years, so have the poverty rates, as families have spent the money they brought with them. According to UNHCR statistics, 70.5 percent of the refugee population live in “extreme poverty,” meaning they live on less than $3.80 per day. UNHCR provides cash assistance, but to only 22 percent of these families. With the cash cards they can buy food, supplies, and pay rent. As winter arrived, additional small payments were provided to help buy blankets, warm clothes, and fuel.

    Many of the refugees say their hope is in giving their children a better future, but in Lebanon that future has a ceiling. “At least we have a real school now and one close. It is much easier for our children,” says one mother. But with livelihood possibilities tightly controlled and the possibility of affordable residency curtailed, many parents don’t see an expanding future in Lebanon. UNHCR tries to assist those who want to resettle elsewhere, but even before the recent US ban on Syrian resettlement, the possible openings were diminishing.

    “UNHCR’s top recommendation in Lebanon is a waiver of the residency fee so that the refugees are all legally registered and can work. This will help provide employment for them and a work force in needed areas of Lebanon, and income that can then be spent in the local economy,” says Karolina Lindholm Billing, UNHCR deputy representative.

    “When you used to look out over Beirut at night, you would see black on top of the buildings,” she notes. “Now you see the lights of refugee settlements there – tents and cooking fires. The refugees have found whatever space is available and gotten permission from the landlords and pay rent.”

    Joanne Leedom-Ackerman is a novelist and journalist who has traveled in the Middle East and visited the refugee settlements in all the countries bordering Syria and has recently returned from Lebanon. Ms. Leedom-Ackerman is a former reporter for the Monitor.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Here in Canada Hydro one Ontario or Hydro Quebec are money sources for governments. So lets Palestinian, Shia and Syrian refugees pay electricity bills or let HA,amal and UNRWA or NGOs for the Syrian visitors pay instead. Let the responsibles of the state and deputies especially the rich people pay also the electricity bill, then we will be able paying a part of our International debts for the world bank.
    Privatization of electricity sector will be the benefit for certain millionaires only in their pockets.
    Petrol and electricity should be sources for Lebanese Treasury.
    In fact the process of privatizing Hydro One started in 2002 and is an on going process

    The long road to privatization of Hydro One - The Globe and Mail

    Hydro One: Ontario’s privatization plan explained - The Globe and Mail

    Nevertheless, in Lebanon the government has not be able to provide the public with electricity. I do not know if you have been there. But one may pay something like US $300+ for the Ishtirak and some 100+ for ministry of electricity during the summer. It is ridiculous, taking that the income of the individual is very low.

    Government in Lebanon does not make money from electricity. Ishtirak mafias make the money.

    The electricity sector is a service providing sector. The government cannot do it. Privatization would allow companies to work on the energy sector by providing expertise, the Lebanese government cannot pay for.
     
    Last edited:
    light-in-dark

    light-in-dark

    Legendary Member
    In fact the process of privatizing Hydro One started in 2002 and is an on going process

    The long road to privatization of Hydro One - The Globe and Mail

    Hydro One: Ontario’s privatization plan explained - The Globe and Mail

    Nevertheless, in Lebanon the government has not be able to provide the public with electricity. I do not know if you have been there. But one may pay something like US $300+ for the Ishtirak and some 100+ for ministry of electricity during the summer. It is ridiculous, taking that the income of the individual is very low.

    Government in Lebanon does not make money from electricity. Ishtirak mafias make the money.

    The electricity sector is a service providing sector. The government cannot do it. Privatization would allow companies to work on the energy sector by providing expertise, the Lebanese government cannot pay for.
    Maybe as someone said here the decentralization may resolve the Jibayyeh. But the electricity as garbage should be for ithad baladyiat. Not only one company or one owner to replace EDL, not to any of those mafias. The problem is all that can be mor expensive than to take control back on electricity for the Government.
    At least Berri's people could be in his areas only. This will be very an advantage for all Lebanese areas we will have more local Labor,
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Maybe as someone said here the decentralization may resolve the Jibayyeh. But the electricity as garbage should be for ithad baladyiat. Not only one company or one owner to replace EDL, not to any of those mafias. The problem is all that can be mor expensive than to take control back on electricity for the Government.
    At least Berri's people could be in his areas only. This will be very an advantage for all Lebanese areas we will have more local Labor,
    What do you mean when you say "Berri's people will be in his areas only"?

    Is privatization of electricity something that is associated with dividing the cake?
     
    light-in-dark

    light-in-dark

    Legendary Member
    What do you mean when you say "Berri's people will be in his areas only"?

    Is privatization of electricity something that is associated with dividing the cake?
    Because Myawmeen are Berri's no!!! At least the majority and they are his playing card on the ground (I am not talking here confessional or sectarian coz I know a lot of Christians and ohter Tawa2if including the Mywaeemeen). So when there is decentralization we may not have these problems of monopolization. Give them to Ithad el baladiyat or mohafazate all people can work not only the Ma7soubiate.

    IN LEBANON REMEMBER THAT WORD AKALAT EL JIBNAH YA HABIBI.

    Allah yr7amo Fouad Chehab.
     
    JeanH

    JeanH

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I am all for privitization , :D that way you get as mucb as you pay , and another abstract dhimmi tax will be lifted
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    hariri senior in the past usurped power in an attempt to buy EDL. this is why there was no real attempts to renovate the sector and the investments were diverted elsewhere, he was intentionally letting EDL slide under loads of debt so that he would get to buy it and turn afterwards into a profitable goose that lays golden eggs. he offered to buy it for 1$.

    fast forward into the present, some political forces are not simply opposed to fixing the sector, but they are also preventing any attempts to reform it. we need to understand why that is, why are they doing their best to keep Lebanon in the dark. this borders on great treason which could lead to execution by law, albeit i am opposed to capital punishment.

    there is also the fact that the weight of the bills is falling mainly upon the Christian shoulders, so EDL is operating as a wealth redistribution system, which could explain some of the attitudes described above.

    with people like birri, jumblat and others in power privatizing the sector will not change all that much.
    I would argue that in privatizing electricity, we could free it from the corrupt elite. Especially if it gets federalized, much like the garbage proposition.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Privatization doesn't seem to be a sound option, especially in a country ruled by mafias and all sorts of Oligarchs. Besides, the capital follow rules that do not always go hand in hand with the need of public services.

    Decentralization might sound appealing at first glance, but will not actually provide solutions. It will most surely create new problems. And Lebanon is too small for that, to start with.

    Besides, the current power plants are already distributed throughout regions. All is needed is to make them work properly and add to them other regional plants in such a way to provide Lebanon with its sufficient needs.

    All in all, the best and most efficient way to deal with the electricity problem in Lebanon, is to develop the actual infrastructure and keep this public service out of corrupt hands.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I would argue that in privatizing electricity, we could free it from the corrupt elite. Especially if it gets federalized, much like the garbage proposition.
    the problem is that they will be the ones placing the bids. not many people can afford or will be allowed to buy into that sector. who do you think the bids will be accorded to? to the relatives and friends of those who are already in power. most of the people who possess such fortunes are already part of the ruling mafia, even if you are decent person with the money to invest, you can only do so through the ruling gateways, and even if you limit quotas such that no one person could own more than 10% for example and open the bid for shares to the public, they will usurp money from the regular investor and they will have no say over the matter and may not see any dime in return. remember the public financing for OTV?
     
    Libnene Qu7

    Libnene Qu7

    Super Ultra Senior Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    the problem is that they will be the ones placing the bids. not many people can afford or will be allowed to buy into that sector. who do you think the bids will be accorded to? to the relatives and friends of those who are already in power. most of the people who possess such fortunes are already part of the ruling mafia, even if you are decent person with the money to invest, you can only do so through the ruling gateways, and even if you limit quotas such that no one person could own more than 10% for example and open the bid for shares to the public, they will usurp money from the regular investor and they will have no say over the matter and may not see any dime in return. remember the public financing for OTV?
    Then we are in the worst possible situation: Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The status quo is unacceptable, even though we've been living it for 17 years. Perhaps we privitize it to far-off foreign companies, from Japan or South Korea, and allow them 100% ownership...
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Then we are in the worst possible situation: Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The status quo is unacceptable, even though we've been living it for 17 years. Perhaps we privitize it to far-off foreign companies, from Japan or South Korea, and allow them 100% ownership...
    The ruling mafia will still force those companies to sell them back these assets.

    I can already see the Mouyawimeen burning tires in front of some Japanese company and chanting "Death to Yamamoto" "Sushi go home" :p
     
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