Do you think the eletricity sector should be privatized ?

Do you think the eletricity sector should be privatized ?

  • Yes

  • No


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  • Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    @Jo

    Can we please edit the title and put "privatized" instead of "privatilized"?
     
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    Reactions: Jo
    Dirty Dragon

    Dirty Dragon

    Well-Known Member
    B3eed El Sharr...Bass Boukra Bet Seer Mbayyne 3a google, W Ma Baddna Yfakkro 3anna Shee :p
    Ma ana ma bade yeha tbayin 3al google. Ma ne7na el dawle aslan privatilized... we need to publicilize it first before it can privitilize parts of itself.
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Precisely. Privatization today only means handing over to the ruling mafia, in a legal way, probably for free, what they are already stealing from, therefore making their theft final and legal.

    The model in Zahle is a complete disaster on the national level. Far from being successful, in economic terms, it is one of the causes of EDL losses. It is another facet of the corruption in that domain.
    Ghireh walla 7assad AS?!? :shifty: :p

    Nope, we have no ruling mafia, we pay our bills 100% and they DON'T go to the gangsters who have been robbing the EDL since MANY years. No we are not one of the causes of EDL's losses, simply because EDZ has been around for almost two years only while EDL has been consistently robbed since the 90s of the past century :)

    And we have a beautiful website EDZ: Electricité de Zahlé

    Halla2 what is true? Abou Sandal's story or yours 7atta na3rif ma3 meen baddna nsawwit. Else we always have @kmarthe, bring on the true story: Who produces the electricity in Zahle, EDZ or EDL?
    I need to investigate more to give you an accurate response :) I know EDZ pays rokhssa to the state, but I think we produce our electricity locally. How can EDL produce electricity to Zahle 24/24 and leave the rest of the country in far more miserable conditions?!?! hein?!? :p chou baddak bi Abou Sandal, he is simply jealous :p Anyhow, I will ask around and let you know :)
     
    Last edited:
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    the far east countries you mentioned are ideal as the the energy sector is a sovereign one and canot be trusted into the elements playing the region.

    yes, that would be the best case scenario, they give us their expertise on how to properly run our power plants to efficiently produce 24/7 electricity, and in return we train them on new methods of corruption :p
    Strange that the same ones that promote conservative politics in the United States, also promote socialist, communist and Marxist policies in Lebanon. Did you say you suffered from bipolar disorder?
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    can some one make a list of what these abbreviations stand for so that we can follow from out here.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Ghireh walla 7assad AS?!? :shifty: :p

    Nope, we have no ruling mafia, we pay our bills 100% and they DON'T go to the gangsters who have been robbing the EDL since MANY years. No we are not one of the causes of EDL's losses, simply because EDZ has been around for almost two years only while EDL has been consistently robbed since the 90s of the past century :)

    And we have a beautiful website EDZ: Electricité de Zahlé

    I need to investigate more to give you an accurate response :) I know EDZ pays rokhssa to the state, but I think we produce our electricity locally. How can EDL produce electricity to Zahle 24/24 and leave the rest of the country in far more miserable conditions?!?! hein?!? :p chou baddak bi Abou Sandal, he is simply jealous :p Anyhow, I will ask around and let you know :)

    Jealoux moi? B3eed El Sharr ... Zahle Kella 3ala Rassna :p

    Bass let me present here, few facts and numbers about the so-called "success story" of EDZ...W lucky me that I have no electoral interests in Zahle Walla I would kiss it goodbye.:D


    First of all, it is a matter of fact, that no company on the Lebanese soil has the right to produce and sell its production of electricity, other than EDL. This is the legal aspect today. Therefore, EDZ producing and selling electricity is illegal. And so is the case for all generators owners accross the country.

    So let's skip this part and talk about the other aspects of this issue.



    As of today, EDL produces electricity in its power plants, at an average cost price of 225 L.L. per KwH.

    And on the other hand, and due to a monopoly granted long time ago, as a political favor, EDZ has the exclusive right to buy electricity from EDL, and sell it in Zahle.

    However, EDZ buys from EDL at the price of 50 L.L. per KwH. And then it sells it to households, at the price of 85 L.L. per KwH. (That selling price was in 2012, and I'm not sure how much it is today)


    That's a benefit of 35 L/L/ per KwH to EDZ, and a loss for EDL of 190 L.L. per KwH. Now that is a huge loss for EDL, as anyone can see.


    And EDZ is not the only company that buys from EDL at Subsidized tariffs. There are others. And it is evaluated that the losses that EDL makes for selling at subsidized tariffs, account for 80% of its losses, while uncollected bills from the market, only account for 20% of EDL's losses.


    In an attempt to minimize damages, in 2013, EDL decided to cut its losses, and increase the minimum tariff for the electricity it sells, to an amount of 95 L.L. per KwH. Which still constitutes a huge loss, but better than selling it at a lower price.


    However...Hon Tel3it El Sarkha :D and the council of ministers took a decision to uphold EDL's decision. :rolleyes:

    At that time, Assaad Nakad said about EDL's decision that “It will be impossible for us to continue our services, and this will lead to the total liquidation of EDZ

    So the "successful model" that EDZ, advances, is nothing but a model, built on buying for extreme low price, selling at twice or thrice that price, and having a monopoly for doing that. Successful to who, exactly? :woot:

    Needless to say, that the dumbest Dekkanjeh could make millions with such an economical model :smuggrin:


    Then there is the 24 hours service.

    Since EDL cannot provide Zahle with 24 hours electricity, EDZ found a solution to fill the gap. It simply bought huge generators, that took the relay whenever there is a shortage.

    Consequently, EDZ sells the electricity it illegally produces at 150 L.L. per KwH. As an outcome, the consumer pays for that electricity, around 30% less than he would have paid, for generators Ishtirak, not because it's cheaper, but because EDZ charges it based on actual consumption, whereas the generator owners propose a flat fee that is depending on Amperage.

    But while this is more convenient for households, it was more expensive to businesses that have higher consumption. And those went back to produce their own electricity in period of shortages.


    Mind you also, that EDZ manages to sell the electricity it produces, at a price of 150 L/L/, not because it found a cheaper way to produce electricity, but because the ridiculous price it pays for EDL electricity, helps it to balance it costs.

    So in conclusion, Zahle has today 24/7 electricity, not because EDZ has invented a successful model to follow, but because all of Lebanon is carrying the burden of paying the price for that service.


    And remember again:

    EDL produces at 225 L.L. per KwH
    EDZ buys it at 50 L.L. per KwH then sells it back at at least 85 L.L. per KwH (lower than the market average price)

    So the consumer is of course very happy, which is logical, but that's only possible because another one is paying the bill.



    Anyway, the monopoly of EDZ ends in 2018 and it will be interesting to see how this matter would be settled, hopefully in a way, that serves the common interest.
     
    walidos

    walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I voted a big fat no to privatisation if the electricity sector. The issue for me is that we will end up with very few companies who will control the prices and consumer will pay through the nose, very much like the telecom industry... government makes money and the companies make money, the consumer gets screwed
     
    Noborders

    Noborders

    Legendary Member
    Just a question isn't it already "privatized" ? ye3ni what is Ishtirak at the end of the day?

    I came to this simple conclusion a while ago that the problem with electricity in Lebanon is not rebuilding or fixing it but actually the Mafia ruling this country making some serious money from the electricity cut by selling people ishtirak!
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Precisely!

    By selling people Ishtirak, and by selling people EDL's fuel, that EDL happened to have just bought from those same sellers. And at the end of the day, also getting on top of it, people's loyalty, for giving them crumbles, and making them accessory of corruption, on all levels of that pyramid.
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Jealoux moi? B3eed El Sharr ... Zahle Kella 3ala Rassna :p

    Bass let me present here, few facts and numbers about the so-called "success story" of EDZ...W lucky me that I have no electoral interests in Zahle Walla I would kiss it goodbye.:D


    First of all, it is a matter of fact, that no company on the Lebanese soil has the right to produce and sell its production of electricity, other than EDL. This is the legal aspect today. Therefore, EDZ producing and selling electricity is illegal. And so is the case for all generators owners accross the country.

    So let's skip this part and talk about the other aspects of this issue.



    As of today, EDL produces electricity in its power plants, at an average cost price of 225 L.L. per KwH.

    And on the other hand, and due to a monopoly granted long time ago, as a political favor, EDZ has the exclusive right to buy electricity from EDL, and sell it in Zahle.

    However, EDZ buys from EDL at the price of 50 L.L. per KwH. And then it sells it to households, at the price of 85 L.L. per KwH. (That selling price was in 2012, and I'm not sure how much it is today)


    That's a benefit of 35 L/L/ per KwH to EDZ, and a loss for EDL of 190 L.L. per KwH. Now that is a huge loss for EDL, as anyone can see.


    And EDZ is not the only company that buys from EDL at Subsidized tariffs. There are others. And it is evaluated that the losses that EDL makes for selling at subsidized tariffs, account for 80% of its losses, while uncollected bills from the market, only account for 20% of EDL's losses.


    In an attempt to minimize damages, in 2013, EDL decided to cut its losses, and increase the minimum tariff for the electricity it sells, to an amount of 95 L.L. per KwH. Which still constitutes a huge loss, but better than selling it at a lower price.


    However...Hon Tel3it El Sarkha :D and the council of ministers took a decision to uphold EDL's decision. :rolleyes:

    At that time, Assaad Nakad said about EDL's decision that “It will be impossible for us to continue our services, and this will lead to the total liquidation of EDZ

    So the "successful model" that EDZ, advances, is nothing but a model, built on buying for extreme low price, selling at twice or thrice that price, and having a monopoly for doing that. Successful to who, exactly? :woot:

    Needless to say, that the dumbest Dekkanjeh could make millions with such an economical model :smuggrin:


    Then there is the 24 hours service.

    Since EDL cannot provide Zahle with 24 hours electricity, EDZ found a solution to fill the gap. It simply bought huge generators, that took the relay whenever there is a shortage.

    Consequently, EDZ sells the electricity it illegally produces at 150 L.L. per KwH. As an outcome, the consumer pays for that electricity, around 30% less than he would have paid, for generators Ishtirak, not because it's cheaper, but because EDZ charges it based on actual consumption, whereas the generator owners propose a flat fee that is depending on Amperage.

    But while this is more convenient for households, it was more expensive to businesses that have higher consumption. And those went back to produce their own electricity in period of shortages.


    Mind you also, that EDZ manages to sell the electricity it produces, at a price of 150 L/L/, not because it found a cheaper way to produce electricity, but because the ridiculous price it pays for EDL electricity, helps it to balance it costs.

    So in conclusion, Zahle has today 24/7 electricity, not because EDZ has invented a successful model to follow, but because all of Lebanon is carrying the burden of paying the price for that service.


    And remember again:

    EDL produces at 225 L.L. per KwH
    EDZ buys it at 50 L.L. per KwH then sells it back at at least 85 L.L. per KwH (lower than the market average price)

    So the consumer is of course very happy, which is logical, but that's only possible because another one is paying the bill.



    Anyway, the monopoly of EDZ ends in 2018 and it will be interesting to see how this matter would be settled, hopefully in a way, that serves the common interest.
    Thank you for the text AS, and as I said I need to investigate back in town before providing my feedback.

    What is missing in your text though AS is how two years of EDZ operations are the cause for the losses of EDL and not the robberies that have been going on since the early 90s directly through mouyawimin and co. and indirectly through unpaid bills and electricity theft. You need to list ALL the facts and not one single fact ;)

    On another note, if you see the evolution of the energy market there is NO escape from a bigger role for the consumers and lesser one for power utilities. In the West distributed energy resources are making their entrance to the market and the user-based electricity generation would be more and more a reality. Heck, I advise Lebanese (not Zehlawis :p ) to increasingly rely on solar panels for their household consumption, these are cheap and very efficient. Bottom line, centralization of electricity generation would be less and less the rule within 5 - 10 years in the world, and Lebanon would be no exception.

    Anyways, I will get back to you and @My Moria Moon when I get the EDZ info!
     
    Last edited:
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Jealoux moi? B3eed El Sharr ... Zahle Kella 3ala Rassna :p

    Bass let me present here, few facts and numbers about the so-called "success story" of EDZ...W lucky me that I have no electoral interests in Zahle Walla I would kiss it goodbye.:D


    First of all, it is a matter of fact, that no company on the Lebanese soil has the right to produce and sell its production of electricity, other than EDL. This is the legal aspect today. Therefore, EDZ producing and selling electricity is illegal. And so is the case for all generators owners accross the country.

    So let's skip this part and talk about the other aspects of this issue.



    As of today, EDL produces electricity in its power plants, at an average cost price of 225 L.L. per KwH.

    And on the other hand, and due to a monopoly granted long time ago, as a political favor, EDZ has the exclusive right to buy electricity from EDL, and sell it in Zahle.

    However, EDZ buys from EDL at the price of 50 L.L. per KwH. And then it sells it to households, at the price of 85 L.L. per KwH. (That selling price was in 2012, and I'm not sure how much it is today)


    That's a benefit of 35 L/L/ per KwH to EDZ, and a loss for EDL of 190 L.L. per KwH. Now that is a huge loss for EDL, as anyone can see.


    And EDZ is not the only company that buys from EDL at Subsidized tariffs. There are others. And it is evaluated that the losses that EDL makes for selling at subsidized tariffs, account for 80% of its losses, while uncollected bills from the market, only account for 20% of EDL's losses.


    In an attempt to minimize damages, in 2013, EDL decided to cut its losses, and increase the minimum tariff for the electricity it sells, to an amount of 95 L.L. per KwH. Which still constitutes a huge loss, but better than selling it at a lower price.


    However...Hon Tel3it El Sarkha :D and the council of ministers took a decision to uphold EDL's decision. :rolleyes:

    At that time, Assaad Nakad said about EDL's decision that “It will be impossible for us to continue our services, and this will lead to the total liquidation of EDZ

    So the "successful model" that EDZ, advances, is nothing but a model, built on buying for extreme low price, selling at twice or thrice that price, and having a monopoly for doing that. Successful to who, exactly? :woot:

    Needless to say, that the dumbest Dekkanjeh could make millions with such an economical model :smuggrin:


    Then there is the 24 hours service.

    Since EDL cannot provide Zahle with 24 hours electricity, EDZ found a solution to fill the gap. It simply bought huge generators, that took the relay whenever there is a shortage.

    Consequently, EDZ sells the electricity it illegally produces at 150 L.L. per KwH. As an outcome, the consumer pays for that electricity, around 30% less than he would have paid, for generators Ishtirak, not because it's cheaper, but because EDZ charges it based on actual consumption, whereas the generator owners propose a flat fee that is depending on Amperage.

    But while this is more convenient for households, it was more expensive to businesses that have higher consumption. And those went back to produce their own electricity in period of shortages.


    Mind you also, that EDZ manages to sell the electricity it produces, at a price of 150 L/L/, not because it found a cheaper way to produce electricity, but because the ridiculous price it pays for EDL electricity, helps it to balance it costs.

    So in conclusion, Zahle has today 24/7 electricity, not because EDZ has invented a successful model to follow, but because all of Lebanon is carrying the burden of paying the price for that service.


    And remember again:

    EDL produces at 225 L.L. per KwH
    EDZ buys it at 50 L.L. per KwH then sells it back at at least 85 L.L. per KwH (lower than the market average price)

    So the consumer is of course very happy, which is logical, but that's only possible because another one is paying the bill.



    Anyway, the monopoly of EDZ ends in 2018 and it will be interesting to see how this matter would be settled, hopefully in a way, that serves the common interest.
    Why would EDL, a monopoly production company, sell another "illegal" market competitor at a subsidized lower than own production price, for that company to resell electricity at a higher price?
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Thank you for the text AS, and as I said I need to investigate back in town before providing my feedback.

    What is missing in your text though AS is how two years of EDZ operations are the cause for the losses of EDL and not the robberies that have been going on since the early 90s directly through mouyawimin and co. and indirectly through unpaid bills and electricity theft. You need to list ALL the facts and not one single fact ;)

    On another note, if you see the evolution of the energy market there is NO escape from a bigger role for the consumers and lesser one for power utilities. In the West distributed energy resources are making their entrance to the market and the user-based electricity generation would be more and more a reality. Heck, I advise Lebanese (not Zehlawis :p ) to increasingly rely on solar panels for their household consumption, these are cheap and very efficient. Bottom line, centralization of electricity generation would be less and less the rule within 5 - 10 years in the world, and Lebanon would be no exception.

    Anyways, I will get back to you and @My Moria Moon when I get the EDZ info!
    No I didn't claim that 2 years of EDZ operations are the cause for the losses of EDL :p
    I said that the model of EDZ "is one of the causes of EDL losses". (And it's no just 2 years btw)

    As for solar energy, I totally agree. We should have started investing in it a long time ago. We have around 300 sunny days throughout the year cycle, and we're not even trying to benefit of it. What a waste.
     
    N

    new hope

    Member
    Here in Canada Hydro one Ontario or Hydro Quebec are money sources for governments. So lets Palestinian, Shia and Syrian refugees pay electricity bills or let HA,amal and UNRWA or NGOs for the Syrian visitors pay instead. Let the responsibles of the state and deputies especially the rich people pay also the electricity bill, then we will be able paying a part of our International debts for the world bank.
    Privatization of electricity sector will be the benefit for certain millionaires only in their pockets.
    Petrol and electricity should be sources for Lebanese Treasury.
    A private company will cut you the electricity if you don't pay as simple as that
    + with privatisation or partnership you can generate money and escape all the fictive employment which is the case now at the electricity
    The state will always have a hand on it - they can organise long term tender

    As for the oil when I see how other energy are managed In Lebanon I doubt it will be a source of money to Lebanese treasury at best it will be flat and that if we are really optimistic

    I'm with the privatisation of the electricity - and it's not because it was suggested by LF that we have to stand in front of it.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Why would EDL, a monopoly production company, sell another "illegal" market competitor at a subsidized lower than own production price, for that company to resell electricity at a higher price?
    EDZ and others, are given monopoly to distribute EDL power, each in a specified geographic area. It can be understandable to subcontract your services, if the result is beneficial to you. (Less administrative work, less employment charges....etc...). At some point, the selling price was surely mutually beneficial to both companies and the consumer.

    But then at another point, and as costs kept increasing, EDL was prevented from increasing its selling price. Just like in the example I highlighted above, where in 2013, the council of ministers took a decision to uphold EDL's decision to increase the price of its subsidized electricity, to a minimum of 95 L.L. per KwH.
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    yes but with these conditions

    1- not one person or entity owns more than 5% directly or indirectly
    2- 51% sold to the public
    3-pre paid meters must be a precondition
    4-a clear formula on how the rates are determined

    cause under the current situation, i dont see the sunnis, shias leaders allowing such a cash cow and job stuffing entity to be allowed t perform

    i even doubt they will accept it to be genuinely privatized
     
    N

    new hope

    Member
    yes but with these conditions

    1- not one person or entity owns more than 5% directly or indirectly
    2- 51% sold to the public
    3-pre paid meters must be a precondition
    4-a clear formula on how the rates are determined

    cause under the current situation, i dont see the sunnis, shias leaders allowing such a cash cow and job stuffing entity to be allowed t perform

    i even doubt they will accept it to be genuinely privatized
    Don't forget the mouterrrr gangs - they will fight this thing and probably they will burn tires :)

    The electricity shud be offered as a lease for 15yeats let's say with breaking clause every 5 years Or 10y

    The tender should be supervised bt the state

    Companies should have history in managing electricity

    Akid they will say they want to take electricity they want to sell the state jewels :)) bas Hal jawhara kalafetna ktir without seeing it :)
     
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