Does the FPM as a Party Want Peace with Israehell

Peace agreement with Israel?


  • Total voters
    26
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  • Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    They did not seek to eliminate anyone, but to defend themselves from those who sought to "throw them in the sea." You failed, get over it. And we liberated Jerusalem.

    Oh and by the way, Arabs in Israel are not digging in trash for food.
    They came in and committed massacres and drove people out in their so called war of independence against people who live in and belong to the land. They didn't fight against the Germans for freedom after the holocaust. They came to punish the Palestinains. But that's a discussion or another day.

    Since Arabs in Israehell are so having the dreams of their lives come true, how about you extend that humane treatment to Gaza and the West Bank? How about Israehell use F16s to bomb the Palestinians with food, medicines and toys instead of bombs and missiles?
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    Yup, many Hitlers existed throughout history and many Hitlers exist today. We are fighting some of them. But we are also more than happy to see Sunnis and Shiites fighting, bless your little heart.
    Many Hitlers? Um, no, we haven’t seen historical figures with the same societal and political clout as projected by Hitler.

    Your kookoo if you want to put people like Al-Baghdadi and Bin Laden in the same league as Hitler.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Clearly, you have no clue how diplomacy works. If you insist on saying that your aim is to destroy another country, you lose your ability to then negotiate a peaceful agreement. No one will take you seriously.

    As you said, what HA is doing is "just talk" to flex their muscles. But when it comes to being tough in negotiations, in a way that would truly yield positive results for Lebanon, they fail big time.



    I feel sorry for Lebanon for being stuck in the battle between zionists and islamists.

    That's what I feel sorry for.

    No, but clearly you don't, I gave you example of diplomacy with so called Israel which Israel is butchering to this day!
    They are in the stronger position fully supported by USA and co and clearly not interested in solutions here so please...

    You want to convince us that we can have peace without justice!
    And I'm telling you no that is impossible but you keep insisting that peace without justice is possible which is something illogical for me to believe in!

    The justice here is for the refugees to return back to their homes the way they left and by compensating them for all the horrible things they had to go through for all these years! But for you that is somehow unfair to the so called Israel which clearly shows us that you stand against justice here!


    So once again there is no peace without justice as simple as that!
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    Exactly, it didnt :D




    They could have elected to do many different things especially when you entertwine the fact that they were constrained by the leeway colonial and imperial powers gave.



    Take a drive along the Dawra highway. Look at all the major dealerships concentrated in that area. Those dealerships are THE major funnel of money in Lebanon and the source of embedded wealth.





    I never said that it was completely dominated by Maronites. The Maronite oligarchy had the lion's share of the spoils and in running the country. I don't see how that position is controversial when its readily accepted as historical fact.




    A hegemonic sectarian ruling class(es). Sectarian being the difference whereby the power structure and its administrattion is divided along sectarian lines.



    How does it fail? Were there or were there not fascist christian organizations?



    That state was artificially created by colonial powers and then further strengthened by imperialism. Of course the ruling powers used local populations and utilized the structure of the existing oligarchy to implement colonial rule. The French certainly didn't create the ruling classes but they gave them their positions and their status and their roles. Especially when you consider that those same ruling classes were presiding over regions they never had sway in.




    There's no such thing as "purely" economical. There's always a confluence of reasons. But the main and most whitewashed reason is the economic and social depravity that the vast majority of Lebanese were trapped under. Especially when you contrast that with the propaganda campaigns by Intrabank and the like to present Lebanon as this oasis of prosperity and culture.



    Will go over these thanks.
    Inta wa7ad je3an :)
    That's what you are, envious and je3an

    The dora highway lol
     
    J

    Jeremy Samuel

    New Member
    I think, even under Israel's right wing government, that Israel would be willing to give up the Shebaa Farms, make a water deal, and come to an agreement on the maritime border. If Lebanon was willing to have a peace deal, I just can't comprehend how an Israeli government wouldn't believe that the benefits of peace with Lebanon weren't greater than a few square miles of land and seawater.

    The only territorial challenge would be over the village of Ghajar, but that's because Ghajar's Alawite inhabitants say they are really Syrian (and can produce documentary evidence for that), but they secretly want to remain part of Israel (and their Likud voting record is evidence of that.) IMO, the solution for Ghajar would have to be a binding plebiscite.

    I agree that Israeli would not easily agree to take back Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, and Netanyahu's government isn't doing anything to make Israel look like a fairer, more just country.

    Anyway....

    We all know that Lebanon isn't going to have a peace deal with Israel any time soon because Hezbollah and many other Lebanese are strongly against it, but I do have a question here for the Lebanese here who are strongly against a peace deal:

    Given that Syria's economy is a shadow of its former self and reconstruction there has barely begun, how do you think Lebanon can thrive as an economic island?

    Doesn't Lebanon need at least one neighbor that can be a market for it?
     
    Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    New Member
    We all know that Lebanon isn't going to have a peace deal with Israel any time soon because Hezbollah and many other Lebanese are strongly against it, but I do have a question here for the Lebanese here who are strongly against a peace deal:

    Given that Syria's economy is a shadow of its former self and reconstruction there has barely begun, how do you think Lebanon can thrive as an economic island?

    Doesn't Lebanon need at least one neighbor that can be a market for it?
    It's not a matter of that we don't want a peace deal, it's a matter that if we can trust someone like Netanyahu or any other right wing psychopath to make peace with given our history.

    We don't need our neighbors to bully us and threaten our sovereignty (Both Syria and Israel have been doing this for a long time). Plus you don't need a neighbor to benefit economically. Our port can link up to a lot of ports in other regions, so we can benefit from the GCC, Egypt, Jordan (through port of Aqaba) and Europe. However, what are we going to export? we have nothing to export
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I think, even under Israel's right wing government, that Israel would be willing to give up the Shebaa Farms, make a water deal, and come to an agreement on the maritime border. If Lebanon was willing to have a peace deal, I just can't comprehend how an Israeli government wouldn't believe that the benefits of peace with Lebanon weren't greater than a few square miles of land and seawater.

    The only territorial challenge would be over the village of Ghajar, but that's because Ghajar's Alawite inhabitants say they are really Syrian (and can produce documentary evidence for that), but they secretly want to remain part of Israel (and their Likud voting record is evidence of that.) IMO, the solution for Ghajar would have to be a binding plebiscite.

    I agree that Israeli would not easily agree to take back Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, and Netanyahu's government isn't doing anything to make Israel look like a fairer, more just country.

    Anyway....

    We all know that Lebanon isn't going to have a peace deal with Israel any time soon because Hezbollah and many other Lebanese are strongly against it, but I do have a question here for the Lebanese here who are strongly against a peace deal:

    Given that Syria's economy is a shadow of its former self and reconstruction there has barely begun, how do you think Lebanon can thrive as an economic island?

    Doesn't Lebanon need at least one neighbor that can be a market for it?
    Any thought of a deal without a solution to the Palestinian refugees that would see them move from Lebanon either back to their homeland or elsewhere wont be considered a deal but bullying.

    We are not a landlocked country. And through Syria we can reach other Arab countries in the region. Our economy suffers when there is no political will to strengthen it. If there is an internal will whereby all our rogue leaders come together to make the economy their priority, whether US likes it or not, we will have a thriving economy. We are an independent state. We are not Panama, Puerto Rico, Hawaii or Alaska. We belong to a country that is thousands of years older than the US. We are a civilisation. There is the option of totally turning Chinese. It is time for us to explore that option and completely head eastwards. If we cant drive GMCs, we wont grow shorter if we drive Chinese cars. The Chinese are willing to improve our infrastructure and aid our economy including building power plants, highways, water plants etc, in no time. The US doesnt give us anything to improve the lives of the people, other than expired toys for the army. And even those toys are given with motives and with conditions and at times, the blackmailing threat to cut funding for the army. We need an effective, mutual and beneficial partner. We need to see what this partner is doing actively on ground to benefit the people. Where are the American pwoer plants for instance? Nothing! The Chinese are willing to come in and make a difference.

    If today our poor economy is the handiwork of the US and it is the mission of the US to try to send us hungry, we can also send the US influence into coma in our country at least, if not in the entire region. We will start a precedence turning towards China for others to follow too. We arent a third world African country struggling to feed. We arent a poor nation. We have enough. I can survive on mjaddara and zaatar forever and fresh tomatoes and still appear healthier than the average American. We also have many thieves who have squandered our national wealth for selfish gains. Those thieves have to give way. And many of them presently themselves as pro American. They're not pro American. They are pro stealing. They are just crooks and incompetent politically but very competent when it comes to milking the people and the state, whether through high taxes and cost of living or through stealing directly from the purse of the state. Thus presenting themselves as pro American was meant to give them some foreign cover and leverage to play internal politics. They are not strong politically or militarily. The political and military strength belongs to those the US doesnt like in Lebanon and those are the parties in the March 8 coalition with majority of seats in parliament and with bigger muscles on the ground and militarily. Once the US abandon these crooks, mostly in the defunct March 14 coalition, they will become insignificant and will have to face justice for corruption.
     
    Last edited:
    J

    Jeremy Samuel

    New Member
    Any thought of a deal without a solution to the Palestinian refugees that would see them move from Lebanon either back to their homeland or elsewhere wont be considered a deal but bullying.

    We are not a landlocked country. And through Syria we can reach other Arab countries in the region. Our economy suffers when there is no political will to strengthen it. If there is an internal will whereby all our rogue leaders come together to make the economy their priority, whether US likes it or not, we will have a thriving economy. We are an independent state. We are not Panama, Puerto Rico, Hawaii or Alaska. We belong to a country that is thousands of years older than the US. We are a civilisation. There is the option of totally turning Chinese. It is time for us to explore that option and completely head eastwards. If we cant drive GMCs, we wont grow shorter if we drive Chinese cars. The Chinese are willing to improve our infrastructure and aid our economy including building power plants, highways, water plants etc, in no time. The US doesnt give us anything to improve the lives of the people, other than expired toys for the army. And even those toys are given with motives and with conditions and at times, the blackmailing threat to cut funding for the army. We need an effective, mutual and beneficial partner. We need to see what this partner is doing actively on ground to benefit the people. Where are the American pwoer plants for instance? Nothing! The Chinese are willing to come in and make a difference.

    If today our poor economy is the handiwork of the US and it is the mission of the US to try to send us hungry, we can also send the US influence into coma in our country at least, if not in the entire region. We will start a precedence turning towards China for others to follow too. We arent a third world African country struggling to feed. We arent a poor nation. We have enough. I can survive on mjaddara and zaatar forever and fresh tomatoes and still appear healthier than the average American. We also have many thieves who have squandered our national wealth for selfish gains. Those thieves have to give way. And many of them presently themselves as pro American. They're not pro American. They are pro stealing. They are just crooks and incompetent politically but very competent when it comes to milking the people and the state, whether through high taxes and cost of living or through stealing directly from the purse of the state. Thus presenting themselves as pro American was meant to give them some foreign cover and leverage to play internal politics. They are not strong politically or militarily. The political and military strength belongs to those the US doesnt like in Lebanon and those are the parties in the March 8 coalition with majority of seats in parliament and with bigger muscles on the ground and militarily. Once the US abandon these crooks, mostly in the defunct March 14 coalition, they will become insignificant and will have to face justice for corruption.
    You’re persuasive that Lebanon doesn’t need the Syrian market or Israeli market to be successful, as long as it has the right governance in place at home. Although I do think that Israel would purchase Lebanese agricultural products. Although the occupation of South Lebanon was a terrible thing, Israel did buy IIRC, over a third of South Lebanon's produce then.

    I didn’t mention tourism, but I do think that Israelis would be a source of tourists for Lebanon. Even if Israeli Jews are not comfortable visiting Lebanon, Israeli-Arabs/Israeli-Palestinians would be. Since there are 1.9 million Israeli-Arabs, they could be a large source of tourists and even college students for Lebanon.

    I hate Netanyahu, but I don’t see him as an irrational psychopath, nor does he have exclusive power over Israel’s security & foreign policy decisions, nor will he even be in office in another 18 months.

    Before Israel’s own 2019 electoral deadlock, Netanyahu’s government was negotiating with Lebanon over the maritime border, and later agreed to negotiate over the land borders. Israel and Lebanon’s militaries already communicate under the auspices of UNIFIL.

    About violations of sovereignty Egypt and Jordan have cold peaces with Israel, but even so, they don’t accuse Israel of violating their sovereignty, because it doesn’t happen. Egypt even asks Israel for assistance against ISIS groups in the Sinai.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    You’re persuasive that Lebanon doesn’t need the Syrian market or Israeli market to be successful, as long as it has the right governance in place at home. Although I do think that Israel would purchase Lebanese agricultural products. Although the occupation of South Lebanon was a terrible thing, Israel did buy IIRC, over a third of South Lebanon's produce then.

    I didn’t mention tourism, but I do think that Israelis would be a source of tourists for Lebanon. Even if Israeli Jews are not comfortable visiting Lebanon, Israeli-Arabs/Israeli-Palestinians would be. Since there are 1.9 million Israeli-Arabs, they could be a large source of tourists and even college students for Lebanon.

    I hate Netanyahu, but I don’t see him as an irrational psychopath, nor does he have exclusive power over Israel’s security & foreign policy decisions, nor will he even be in office in another 18 months.

    Before Israel’s own 2019 electoral deadlock, Netanyahu’s government was negotiating with Lebanon over the maritime border, and later agreed to negotiate over the land borders. Israel and Lebanon’s militaries already communicate under the auspices of UNIFIL.

    About violations of sovereignty Egypt and Jordan have cold peaces with Israel, but even so, they don’t accuse Israel of violating their sovereignty, because it doesn’t happen. Egypt even asks Israel for assistance against ISIS groups in the Sinai.
    Our dear American forum friend, the problem is not with us. We arent the ones occupying Israehelli territory, or tampering with Israehelli maritime border or flying our planes over Israehelli administered territories or sending in hundreds of thousands of refugees. The other side did. If the other side wants peace, not just a ceasefire,a truce or cessation of hostilities, the other side knows what it must do. It knows what it ought to do. Israehell can impose peace if it wants peace. Because we arent the side that stretched our hands to encroach into Israehelli administered territory or violated the "rights" of Israehell. Israehell did. It can impose peace by doing the right things. If it can unilaterally impose war and invasions, it can also act unilaterally to impose peace through goodwill gestures that are drastic to calm the nerves and even pretend it has changed its ugly behaviours. But if you ask me, Israehell doesn't really want peace. Israehell wants us to surrender and sign a peace agreement in humiliation. And that we will NEVER do. We liberated our land through the sacrifice of the blood of our young men and not through ink. Forget the stray clowns on the forum and maybe the paid pens on social media and know that the reality on ground is different entirely. If the bombs couldn't make us surrender in humiliation, trust me, the hunger (if we ever get to that) wont succeed either.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    . Our port can link up to a lot of ports in other regions, so we can benefit from the GCC, Egypt, Jordan (through port of Aqaba) and Europe. However, what are we going to export? we have nothing to export
    As long as you allow an Iranian terrorist militia to rule you, no, you cannot benefit from "the GCC, Egypt, Jordan" and say good bye to shukran Qatar. Feel free to trade with Venezuela and North Korea.
     
    Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    New Member
    As long as you allow an Iranian terrorist militia to rule you, no, you cannot benefit from "the GCC, Egypt, Jordan" and say good bye to shukran Qatar. Feel free to trade with Venezuela and North Korea.
    We are already benefiting from GCC with or without those Iranian "terrorists".
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    @Rafidi here is the answer to your thread from bassil himself.. so this is what FPM as party is calling for...

     
    V

    Viral

    Member
    @Rafidi here is the answer to your thread from bassil himself.. so this is what FPM as party is calling for...

    @Rafidi strikes me as an extremely loyal and dependable potential friend who believes in his cause very religiously but his emotions run high at times and he’s always in need to go back to his source to recalibrate his compass. I don’t believe he speaks in HA name because SHN is very pragmatic. If Taliban was able to strike a deal with the Trump administration so can Hezbollah when time becomes ripe. Let’s face it, Hezbollah populous priority is preserving their land not the on of the Palestinians. Their deeply routed issue with Israel is mainly because of Israel’s aim at naturalizing the Palestinian refugees and installing them in Shiite land. (Most Christians feel the same BTW). If the issues of the Palestinian naturalization and the land/sea territorial disputes were resolved, everything Bassil has said above will become simple logic. I don’t care how much you hate Bassil; the guy has a statesman vision. His vision becomes fact once things get settled down after, but not before negotiations are over. For now all parties are following Trumps art of the deal philosophy by flexing muscles before sitting at the table.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    @Rafidi strikes me as an extremely loyal and dependable potential friend who believes in his cause very religiously but his emotions run high at times and he’s always in need to go back to his source to recalibrate his compass. I don’t believe he speaks in HA name because SHN is very pragmatic. If Taliban was able to strike a deal with the Trump administration so can Hezbollah when time becomes ripe. Let’s face it, Hezbollah populous priority is preserving their land not the on of the Palestinians. Their deeply routed issue with Israel is mainly because of Israel’s aim at naturalizing the Palestinian refugees and installing them in Shiite land. (Most Christians feel the same BTW). If the issues of the Palestinian naturalization and the land/sea territorial disputes were resolved, everything Bassil has said above will become simple logic. I don’t care how much you hate Bassil; the guy has a statesman vision. His vision becomes fact once things get settled down after, but not before negotiations are over. For now all parties are following Trumps art of the deal philosophy by flexing muscles before sitting at the table.
    I'm not so sure about that like you seems to be so I leave it for someone who is southern to response to these accusations of yours!
    As for Bassil he is not a statesman he is nesnes .. he is no different from berri w hal 2orta kela sawa..

    Despite our differences with HA and all but I believe this is more rooted than Palestinian refugees!
    There is a good reason why Iran is where it is today after all.. choosing this path has to mean something more than being about the Palestinian refugees..

    You are talking purely out from a secularist with westernized indoctrination point of view..

    Sitting on these tables are doomed with failures and more wars.. if HA & Co shift toward so called Israel there will be another shift elsewhere against it! This has always been the case if you look at the history of this region!
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I ask again: under which terms? That's the most important thing.

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    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    We need to know the pros and cons of a treaty.


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    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Jordan has peace with Israel without solving the refuge issue and nos feels threatened by annexation and by the "Jordan is Palestine" crowd in Israel. Will other countries offer to take the Palestinian refugees from Lebanon?

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