Does The Medical Field Need A Makeover?

Indie

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I live in a country with public healthcare; so, I don't know if the following applies to the experiences of those of you under a private healthcare system. Let us know, either way.

It seems that, in the medical field, health issues and their treatment are often reduced to recent / current symptoms and their alleviation. You go to the doctor, tell them what's bothering you, they give you some medicine that fixes your symptoms but that creates new symptoms they call side-effects. And...that's pretty much it.

Patients walk out of the doctor's office almost as clueless as they walked in: they neither understand their illness nor what to do about it, other than taking medication.

Given this situation, I find myself doing research and trying to decipher medical literature. But even when I manage to join the dots and figure things out, doctors seem out of touch with the new research and discoveries in their own field.

The field of medicine should change it's modus operandi. That includes: figuring out the roots of a patient's illness(es), how different issues might be related, and how to improve the overall health of the patient beyond reducing symptoms.

How can that be achieved? I have no idea. I'm too busy being my own doctor and learning about body parts and organisms with unpronouncable names :p

But I am curious about everyone else's experiences, and whether the situation is the same with private healthcare.

P.S. I appreciate having free healthcare. This thread is not about the economics or politics of healthcare. It's about the specific issue mentioned above: how the health of each patient is managed by his or her doctors.
 
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  • Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    i’d point out something even further upstream in the medical food chain.

    how are we training doctors and why do they all graduate with a god complex. i have never seen such change in personality in any other field. i personaly cut contact with a long time friend to this because he became a grade A prick throughout his years.

    my man u saw nose bones and inject chemicals into cougars lips and foreheads, u’re not that important.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The queen of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think when it comes to countries that offer "free healthcare" (for lack of a more appropriate term) which is my experience as well, the sheer number of patients that doctors have to talk to every day makes it harder for them to explain in full details to each and every one of them what exactly is wrong with them. I went to a dentist about 5 times to fix my tooth I have no idea wtf he did since he never answered any of my questions, he told me I needed a couronne but never explained why I had to do my own research, and I just know I paid for it and asked my Lebanese dentist about it and whether his work was okay in Lebanon :p I did give him a bad review on Google though lol.

    When I examined my eyes kamena, I talked to the doctor for about 5 minutes she gave me a prescription for glasses and I never saw her again!

    Heck when I gave birth to my daughter I went to see the gynochologist who performed my emergency c section a month after it was a 10 minute conversation where he lectured me about the importance of birth control and how quickly I needed to lose the weight I had gained ?! He did admire his work though while examining me! Nothing about the pain I still felt a month later, he explained that that was totally normal and will dissipate after a while, how long is a while I had no idea, turned out it's 5 months ?!

    My limited experience with healthcare in Lebanon was one where doctors take the time to explain to patients exactly what's wrong with them, but that seems to be dwindling as well. A friend of mine got breast cancer and 4 out of 5 doctors advised her she needed to get a double mastectomy without explaining the reasoning behind it, poor girl was crying for weeks over the prospective loss of her organs! Finally one stepped in and explained everything in full details and she was on board with the decision, but still that's a horrific position to be in and your doctor has to be the one guiding you through it, not simply describing how they're going to cut you up like you're a pizza or something!

    So yeah I agree, doctors need to have more of a human touch! Everyone at their office is a scared individual incredibly worried about their health, they need to find the time to reassure them or at least answer some of their questions. I understand it gets tedious after a while, but that poor human being in your office is just looking for answers and it's your job to help him!
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    i’d point out something even further upstream in the medical food chain.

    how are we training doctors and why do they all graduate with a god complex. i have never seen such change in personality in any other field. i personaly cut contact with a long time friend to this because he became a grade A prick throughout his years.

    my man u saw nose bones and inject chemicals into cougars lips and foreheads, u’re not that important.
    There must be two types of people who go into the medical field...the kind that likes to care for others and the kind that likes the title.

    But even the former can be part of the issue I mentioned in the OP. Maybe it has to do with their training and how they're separated into specializations. Also, big pharma finances most of the research so the solutions they're being taught seem to revolve around medication.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think when it comes to countries that offer "free healthcare" (for lack of a more appropriate term) which is my experience as well, the sheer number of patients that doctors have to talk to every day makes it harder for them to explain in full details to each and every one of them what exactly is wrong with them. I went to a dentist about 5 times to fix my tooth I have no idea wtf he did since he never answered any of my questions, he told me I needed a couronne but never explained why I had to do my own research, and I just know I paid for it and asked my Lebanese dentist about it and whether his work was okay in Lebanon :p I did give him a bad review on Google though lol.

    When I examined my eyes kamena, I talked to the doctor for about 5 minutes she gave me a prescription for glasses and I never saw her again!

    Heck when I gave birth to my daughter I went to see the gynochologist who performed my emergency c section a month after it was a 10 minute conversation where he lectured me about the importance of birth control and how quickly I needed to lose the weight I had gained ?! He did admire his work though while examining me! Nothing about the pain I still felt a month later, he explained that that was totally normal and will dissipate after a while, how long is a while I had no idea, turned out it's 5 months ?!

    My limited experience with healthcare in Lebanon was one where doctors take the time to explain to patients exactly what's wrong with them, but that seems to be dwindling as well. A friend of mine got breast cancer and 4 out of 5 doctors advised her she needed to get a double mastectomy without explaining the reasoning behind it, poor girl was crying for weeks over the prospective loss of her organs! Finally one stepped in and explained everything in full details and she was on board with the decision, but still that's a horrific position to be in and your doctor has to be the one guiding you through it, not simply describing how they're going to cut you up like you're a pizza or something!

    So yeah I agree, doctors need to have more of a human touch! Everyone at their office is a scared individual incredibly worried about their health, they need to find the time to reassure them or at least answer some of their questions. I understand it gets tedious after a while, but that poor human being in your office is just looking for answers and it's your job to help him!
    Exactly. When you go to a restaurant, the waiter doesn't get to be rude to you just because he has a lot of customers. A teacher doesn't get to dismiss your questions just because he already explained the same thing to many other students.

    It should be part of the doctor's job to keep their patients educated. After all, an educated patient will take better care of his health, and this might prevent additional health issues.
     
    ّTelefon Kasse

    ّTelefon Kasse

    Member
    people in Lebanon do not need more hospitals ya HA, they all have means of transportation to go to any hospital.
    the Lebanese people cannot afford the overly-high cost of medication and hospitals <-- there is the problem !!
     
    My Moria Moon

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    people in Lebanon do not need more hospitals ya HA, they all have means of transportation to go to any hospital.
    the Lebanese people cannot afford the overly-high cost of medication and hospitals <-- there is the problem !!
    I totally agree. You also could have wrote that a fine Belgian chocolate puts one in good mood, and I'd have agreed just the same.
    But tell me ya rafiq el darb el forumi, how come you didn't understand a sh!t of what the topic is about? And why are you talking to HA, ya fette7 ya rezze2, and not to @Indie the thread owner? Was it the bat7a again? Now bouncing real fast up and down your lips while your typing fingers are stuck inside the HA obsession loop and you can't get them out with less than falling abruptly asleep over the keyboard?
     
    ّTelefon Kasse

    ّTelefon Kasse

    Member
    I totally agree. You also could have wrote that a fine Belgian chocolate puts one in good mood, and I'd have agreed just the same.
    But tell me ya rafiq el darb el forumi, how come you didn't understand a sh!t of what the topic is about? And why are you talking to HA, ya fette7 ya rezze2, and not to @Indie the thread owner? Was it the bat7a again? Now bouncing real fast up and down your lips while your typing fingers are stuck inside the HA obsession loop and you can't get them out with less than falling abruptly asleep over the keyboard?
    Ahhh fool of a took, the darkess of mordor has slowed your mind
    this was an old post and a reply not to Indie but to a conference by some HA MP or Minister talking proudly about newly established medical centers/hospitals in Bekaa
     
    Last edited:
    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Well-Known Member
    I live in a country with public healthcare; so, I don't know if the following applies to the experiences of those of you under a private healthcare system. Let us know, either way.

    It seems that, in the medical field, health issues and their treatment are often reduced to recent / current symptoms and their alleviation. You go to the doctor, tell them what's bothering you, they give you some medicine that fixes your symptoms but that creates new symptoms they call side-effects. And...that's pretty much it.

    Patients walk out of the doctor's office almost as clueless as they walked in: they neither understand their illness nor what to do about it, other than taking medication.

    Given this situation, I find myself doing research and trying to decipher medical literature. But even when I manage to join the dots and figure things out, doctors seem out of touch with the new research and discoveries in their own field.

    The field of medicine should change it's modus operandi. That includes: figuring out the roots of a patient's illness(es), how different issues might be related, and how to improve the overall health of the patient beyond reducing symptoms.

    How can that be achieved? I have no idea. I'm too busy being my own doctor and learning about body parts and organisms with unpronouncable names :p

    But I am curious about everyone else's experiences, and whether the situation is the same with private healthcare.

    P.S. I appreciate having free healthcare. This thread is not about the economics or politics of healthcare. It's about the specific issue mentioned above: how the health of each patient is managed by his or her doctors.
    Generally speaking, North American medical philosophy tends to focus more on instant relief rather than treating and resolving the root cause. Even though Canada has public healthcare, treatment methods mimic the U.S. in the approach. Comparatively to other western developed countries, Canada has the worst doctors I’ve ever encountered. Many of them should not even be practicing medicine. Naturally, you can expect private healthcare to be more qualitative than public, but don’t be surprised if the approach is the same. At the end of the day, pharmaceutical companies drive the industry. From my own experiences of mild health ailments, doctor visits in both the U.S. and Canada are impersonal and much too brief. This is the case in both private and public healthcare. From the second you walk into a clinic, you are made to feel like a number. In private practices (particularly in major cities) doctor visits are abrupt and can be as short as 3-5 mins. 10 mins would be really pushing it. No matter how good the doctor, it’s virtually impossible to give you personalised treatment in that time frame. It’s almost like AI, they just diagnose you based on the most statistically probable cause, followed by the standard medication, and then ask you to follow up with another appointment so they can make an extra buck. Off they run to the other patients cooped up in adjacent rooms.

    I think this is in stark contrast to the approach and methods used in the more advanced west european countries. Generally, doctor visits there are lengthier and far more personalised. The doctor actually patiently listens and often attempts to educate the patient. Treatments usually begin conservatively, avoiding the more aggressive approaches and potentially harmful ones. As one example, you can observe this in the reckless use of anaesthesia by American doctors. Whereas, in Europe they tend to weigh on the side of caution and use milder types of anaesthesia whenever possible. Anyway, this is strictly of my own experiences in Canada, U.S., and Europe. Others may have had different experiences. I simply had the benefit to try all three and compare. In conclusion, public or private (at least in North America), it’s the same philosophy with negligible differences.
     
    Last edited:
    Dr. Strangelove

    Dr. Strangelove

    Nuclear War Expert
    Staff member
    The field of medicine should change it's modus operandi. That includes: figuring out the roots of a patient's illness(es), how different issues might be related, and how to improve the overall health of the patient beyond reducing symptoms.

    How can that be achieved? I have no idea. I'm too busy being my own doctor and learning about body parts and organisms with unpronouncable names :p

    But I am curious about everyone else's experiences, and whether the situation is the same with private healthcare.
    As a dentist who studied and is working in Lebanon, I can only speak about my own experience relating to my specialty.

    Dentistry has evolved greatly over the last couple of decades, be it in the scope of treatment or in how disease is managed. While traditional dentistry could have been accused of being overly topical and symptomatic in its perspective, modern dentistry puts a larger emphasis on a more global approach, with prevention and maintenance at its core. I don't want my patients calling me every couple of years after having spent a week in pain, to schedule long, stressful sessions that will cost them a fortune. I want them showing up to my practice once or twice a year for routine check-ups and preventative action so that a healthy lifestyle can be maintained and disease can be avoided altogether.

    Another key element of modern dentistry is informed patient consent. This demands that dentists educate and inform their patients appropriately throughout the process, making sure everyone stays on the same page. This is all taught from a basic level in universities, mind you. Personally, I usually schedule appointments with "talking time" in mind, and tailor treatment plans according to the demands of the case and of the patient. Not everyone practices professionally what they're taught academically, unfortunately. Moreover, every practitioner has their own style in dealing with patients - for better or for worse.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    Reliance on modern medicine should be broken, with more attention given to alternative medical theories and practices.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Generally speaking, North American medical philosophy tends to focus more on instant relief rather than treating and resolving the root cause. Even though Canada has public healthcare, treatment methods mimic the U.S. in the approach. Comparatively to other western developed countries, Canada has the worst doctors I’ve ever encountered. Many of them should not even be practicing medicine. Naturally, you can expect private healthcare to be more qualitative than public, but don’t be surprised if the approach is the same. At the end of the day, pharmaceutical companies drive the industry. From my own experiences of mild health ailments, doctor visits in both the U.S. and Canada are impersonal and much too brief. This is the case in both private and public healthcare. From the second you walk into a clinic, you are made to feel like a number. In private practices (particularly in major cities) doctor visits are abrupt and can be as short as 3-5 mins. 10 mins would be really pushing it. No matter how good the doctor, it’s virtually impossible to give you personalised treatment in that time frame. It’s almost like AI, they just diagnose you based on the most statistically probable cause, followed by the standard medication, and then ask you to follow up with another appointment so they can make an extra buck. Off they run to the other patients cooped up in adjacent rooms.

    I think this is in stark contrast to the approach and methods used in the more advanced west european countries. Generally, doctor visits there are lengthier and far more personalised. The doctor actually patiently listens and often attempts to educate the patient. Treatments usually begin conservatively, avoiding the more aggressive approaches and potentially harmful ones. As one example, you can observe this in the reckless use of anaesthesia by American doctors. Whereas, in Europe they tend to weigh on the side of caution and use milder types of anaesthesia whenever possible. Anyway, this is strictly of my own experiences in Canada, U.S., and Europe. Others may have had different experiences. I simply had the benefit to try all three and compare. In conclusion, public or private (at least in North America), it’s the same philosophy with negligible differences.
    I can't comment on the second part of your post since I have no experience with the medical field in Europe, but the first part of your post is quite accurate. The only point I don't agree with is the generalization that doctors in Canada are the worst. You have good ones and not so good ones. The problem is that even the good ones are stuck in a poor system.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    As a dentist who studied and is working in Lebanon, I can only speak about my own experience relating to my specialty.

    Dentistry has evolved greatly over the last couple of decades, be it in the scope of treatment or in how disease is managed. While traditional dentistry could have been accused of being overly topical and symptomatic in its perspective, modern dentistry puts a larger emphasis on a more global approach, with prevention and maintenance at its core. I don't want my patients calling me every couple of years after having spent a week in pain, to schedule long, stressful sessions that will cost them a fortune. I want them showing up to my practice once or twice a year for routine check-ups and preventative action so that a healthy lifestyle can be maintained and disease can be avoided altogether.

    Another key element of modern dentistry is informed patient consent. This demands that dentists educate and inform their patients appropriately throughout the process, making sure everyone stays on the same page. This is all taught from a basic level in universities, mind you. Personally, I usually schedule appointments with "talking time" in mind, and tailor treatment plans according to the demands of the case and of the patient. Not everyone practices professionally what they're taught academically, unfortunately. Moreover, every practitioner has their own style in dealing with patients - for better or for worse.
    I don't have the same issues with dentistry as with the rest of the medical field. I see my dentist every few months for checkup and cleaning. However, dental visits and procedures are not covered by the government and they are very expensive.

    People who require major procedures usually travel to Lebanon because even with the travel expenses it is much cheaper that way.

    Also, when you have symptoms related to your dental health, it is pretty straight forward to figure out what is wrong. A simple examination or x-ray will reveal the source of the issue.

    This is not always true for non-dental health issues. For example, years ago I went to a doctor regarding a symptom. He examined me and said that everything seemed normal. I said that despite appearances, I was sure something was off because I did not have that symptom before. He said I could do a blood test if I insist. So I did. When they got the results they called me back in. Apparently, I had a nutritional deficiency and needed to take supplements for a period of time.

    Had I not insisted, I would have left the clinic not knowing what was wrong, nor what to do about it, and my health would have deteriorated even more.

    The more I read medical literature, the more I realize that many illnesses can be adressed with simple things like nutrition. Instead, patients are ignored until their symptoms increase and worsen, at which point they are given medications that give them a bunch of side effects without even addressing the root of the issue.
     
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