Parliamentary elections 2018 Elections: Beirut 1 district

The Jade

The Jade

Legendary Member
The problem for me is that the majority of the mujtama3 madani are bunch of hypocrites ( hariri in disguise) Few of them are decent.
Yes you have charbel nahas in moujtama3 madani but you have also paula yaacoubian.
Other than that i agree. FPM is indeed responsible for those people leaving cause it was supposed to be up to their expecations ( speaking about the people who might end up trying the mojtama3 madani) . However i on a personal level still believe FPM is way better than the rest of the rulling class and all the mojtama3 madani will achieve is weakening FPM in their area of strength in favour of the rest of the rulling class without winning anything themselves.

In other words, mujtama3 madani chances only exist where FPM exits . They dont have any chances in the rest of the districts .
Can you support your claim about the civil society being Hariri in disguise?
How many candidates do you know who fit this profile?
As far as I can see, you only used the example of Paula Yacoubian, which you also already accused of joining the FM ranks in the future.
Do you have information that we don't?

As for weaking the FPM, just like you said it, the FPM has weakened itself through its actions.
And as mentioned above, the people who will vote LiBaladi or for the Watani coalition were NOT going to vote FPM anyway.
They wanted an alternative.

You can't blame people for weakening you when they weren't going to vote for you in the beginning.
 
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  • Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Can you support your claim about the civil society being Hariri in disguise?
    How many candidates do you know who fit this profile?
    As far as I can see, you only used the example of Paula Yacoubian, which you also already accused of joining the FM ranks in the future.
    Do you have information that we don't?

    As for weaking the FPM, just like you said it, the FPM has weakened itself through its actions.
    And as mentioned above, the people who will vote LiBaladi or for the Watani coalition were NOT going to vote FPM anyway.
    They wanted an alternative.

    You can't blame people for weakening you when they weren't going to vote for you in the beginning.
     
    F

    freelebanonn

    Legendary Member
    Can you support your claim about the civil society being Hariri in disguise?
    How many candidates do you know who fit this profile?
    As far as I can see, you only used the example of Paula Yacoubian, which you also already accused of joining the FM ranks in the future.
    Do you have information that we don't?

    As for weaking the FPM, just like you said it, the FPM has weakened itself through its actions.
    And as mentioned above, the people who will vote LiBaladi or for the Watani coalition were NOT going to vote FPM anyway.
    They wanted an alternative.

    You can't blame people for weakening you when they weren't going to vote for you in the beginning.
    Beirut madinati was hariri in disguise same as when fares soueid runs against ziad hawat in jbeil. Most of Beirut madinati were pro14 of feb . They just wanted to form a path for themselves ( which is their right) .Plus the mojtama3 el madani dont have a clear political opinion on many critical things that the country is facing ( syria war, hizbullah weapons etc.) .

    Combine those together , you get an hypocrite group who does not want to give a straight political opinion on anything so they dont alienate a chunk of the society they hope to get support from.

    Also the most important part is that they didint get along with each others because eveyone wants to be boss and everyone wants to become MP . So they ended up failing in the past when they had momentum and will probably fail in the future for the same reasons.

    Last week , rabih habr was on MTV and he clearly said mujtama3 madani has a real chance of getting an mp in chouf aley district on 1 condition only, withdrawing for each others and forming one unified list. Do you think it will happen? Of course not. Ghada eid was present ( she is running in aley if i am not wrong) and she started saying yes some people should know that other has more chances blablabla.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Beirut madinati was hariri in disguise same as when fares soueid runs against ziad hawat in jbeil. Most of Beirut madinati were pro14 of feb .
    LiBaladi is an offshoot of Beirut Madinati.
    In a previous post you claimed that civil society (of which LiBaladi is a part), will take votes away from FPM.
    Baddak tna22e.
    Are they pro-FPM or pro-feb 14th?

    Besides, apart from an accusation that they are Hariri in disguise, you still haven't provided any single proof!
    They just wanted to form a path for themselves ( which is their right) .Plus the mojtama3 el madani dont have a clear political opinion on many critical things that the country is facing ( syria war, hizbullah weapons etc.) .
    That's another misleading statement.
    That's from LiBaladi's website
    More positions can be found on libaladi.com

    الأمن والسياسة الدفاعية

    نؤكّد بأنّ مقاومة إسرائيل بكافة الأشكال الاجتماعية والثقافية والاقتصادية والسياسية والدفاعية هي واجب وطني وليس امتياز لفريق على حساب فريق آخر. من الناحية الدفاعية، نلتزم ببسط سيادة الدولة على كافة أراضيها وعلى حدودها وداخل المخيمات من خلال وضع وتنفيذ استراتيجية سيادية للدولة اللبنانية شاملة ومركّبة تبدأ في إعادة تفعيل بناء مؤسسات الدولة الدفاعية وخاصة المؤسسات الأمنية والعسكرية لتكون مرتبطة حصرًا بقرارها. ولتحقيق ذلك، وبهدف استعادة الدولة لأهم صلاحياتها للدفاع عن أرضها وشعبها، نؤمن بضرورة تعزيز قدرة المجتمع لا سيما على الحدود اللبنانية وفي المناطق الأكثر فقراً، وتحصينه اجتماعياً واقتصادياً وثقافياً بما يعيد له كرامته وانتماءه للدولة ويمكّنه من الصمود أمام العدو الإسرائيلي أو أي تهديد خارجي من أي فئة كانت. سنعمل على استعادة ثقة الناس بدولة القانون ومحاربة ظاهرة السلاح المتفلت وعدم الانسياق وراء الاحتقان الطائفي أو المذهبي أو تصفية الحسابات الشخصية

    Combine those together , you get an hypocrite group who does not want to give a straight political opinion on anything so they dont alienate a chunk of the society they hope to get support from.
    When you have wrong information, there's nothing you can combine.
    Isn't better for one to get their facts right before getting to the wrong conclusion?
    Now u've already made up your made based on wrong and falsified info.
    Also the most important part is that they didint get along with each others because eveyone wants to be boss and everyone wants to become MP . So they ended up failing in the past when they had momentum and will probably fail in the future for the same reasons.
    1) civil society is not a solid group, it's made by a loose group of several movements, independants, parties, who have different views about economics, culturen, politics, etc.

    2) The FPM, a party with a clear structure has dissessions in it. Many of its members left or were kicked out because they couldn't get along with each other. Yet you see that civil society not being a unified group is bad?

    3) where did they fail in the past?
    They got close to winning in Beirut, which was an impressive achievement going against everyone!
    They won the student elections in AUB
    They won the order of engineers elections.

    For such a young and heterogenous group....I think this is a massive....don't you?
    Last week , rabih habr was on MTV and he clearly said mujtama3 madani has a real chance of getting an mp in chouf aley district on 1 condition only, withdrawing for each others and forming one unified list. Do you think it will happen? Of course not. Ghada eid was present ( she is running in aley if i am not wrong) and she started saying yes some people should know that other has more chances blablabla.
    We don't know the lists yet.
    Let's wait and see.
    And again, it's not a homogeneous group, it's normal to have diagreements.

    Shall I remind you that parties like LF, FM, FPM, etc who have been here for years have internal fights and have been negotiating with each other for years yet still haven't found agreements between them?
    and you want to criticise the civil society for not being able to agree on a 6 months notice?
    gharib amrak
     
    W

    wdawle1

    Member
    Apart from Paula Yacoubian ( a future movement in disguise). Laury Haytayan is the wife of Zaven Kouyoumjian, another tv personality who worked on Future television forever and is Haririst in disguise. THE Jade stop promoting a well known agenda.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Apart from Paula Yacoubian ( a future movement in disguise). Laury Haytayan is the wife of Zaven Kouyoumjian, another tv personality who worked on Future television forever and is Haririst in disguise. THE Jade stop promoting a well known agenda.
    Oh so, because her husband worked for Hariri, she should follow his path?
    Married people can't have different political opinions?
    Or do you believe that women don't have opinions, rather they follow what their husbands decide?
     
    F

    freelebanonn

    Legendary Member
    LiBaladi is an offshoot of Beirut Madinati.
    In a previous post you claimed that civil society (of which LiBaladi is a part), will take votes away from FPM.
    Baddak tna22e.
    Are they pro-FPM or pro-feb 14th?

    Besides, apart from an accusation that they are Hariri in disguise, you still haven't provided any single proof!

    That's another misleading statement.
    That's from LiBaladi's website
    More positions can be found on libaladi.com

    الأمن والسياسة الدفاعية

    نؤكّد بأنّ مقاومة إسرائيل بكافة الأشكال الاجتماعية والثقافية والاقتصادية والسياسية والدفاعية هي واجب وطني وليس امتياز لفريق على حساب فريق آخر. من الناحية الدفاعية، نلتزم ببسط سيادة الدولة على كافة أراضيها وعلى حدودها وداخل المخيمات من خلال وضع وتنفيذ استراتيجية سيادية للدولة اللبنانية شاملة ومركّبة تبدأ في إعادة تفعيل بناء مؤسسات الدولة الدفاعية وخاصة المؤسسات الأمنية والعسكرية لتكون مرتبطة حصرًا بقرارها. ولتحقيق ذلك، وبهدف استعادة الدولة لأهم صلاحياتها للدفاع عن أرضها وشعبها، نؤمن بضرورة تعزيز قدرة المجتمع لا سيما على الحدود اللبنانية وفي المناطق الأكثر فقراً، وتحصينه اجتماعياً واقتصادياً وثقافياً بما يعيد له كرامته وانتماءه للدولة ويمكّنه من الصمود أمام العدو الإسرائيلي أو أي تهديد خارجي من أي فئة كانت. سنعمل على استعادة ثقة الناس بدولة القانون ومحاربة ظاهرة السلاح المتفلت وعدم الانسياق وراء الاحتقان الطائفي أو المذهبي أو تصفية الحسابات الشخصية


    When you have wrong information, there's nothing you can combine.
    Isn't better for one to get their facts right before getting to the wrong conclusion?
    Now u've already made up your made based on wrong and falsified info.

    1) civil society is not a solid group, it's made by a loose group of several movements, independants, parties, who have different views about economics, culturen, politics, etc.

    2) The FPM, a party with a clear structure has dissessions in it. Many of its members left or were kicked out because they couldn't get along with each other. Yet you see that civil society not being a unified group is bad?

    3) where did they fail in the past?
    They got close to winning in Beirut, which was an impressive achievement going against everyone!
    They won the student elections in AUB
    They won the order of engineers elections.

    For such a young and heterogenous group....I think this is a massive....don't you?

    We don't know the lists yet.
    Let's wait and see.
    And again, it's not a homogeneous group, it's normal to have diagreements.

    Shall I remind you that parties like LF, FM, FPM, etc who have been here for years have internal fights and have been negotiating with each other for years yet still haven't found agreements between them?
    and you want to criticise the civil society for not being able to agree on a 6 months notice?
    gharib amrak
    Can you tell me what is the opinion of hizb sabaa about hizbullah weapons and syria war? Libaladi is running in beirut hezeb sabaa fielded candidates all over lebanon more than FPM 3a shwey! when i speak about mujtama3 madani , its about the majority of them not a certain group in them that might be different.
     
    dodzi

    dodzi

    Legendary Member
    There are many ways to look at it.
    People who would vote Civil Society would not vote for anyone else. They would've stayed home on election day.
    These are people who lost hope in the actual ruling group and how can you blame them?

    Mech ma3rouf *** min bi tiz min!

    Everyone is allied with everyone in this election, there is no more real opposition to the people in power.
    This encourages the division of the cake, which is what happened in the past few years.

    Civil society is indeed made of a lot of disgruntled pro-FPMers, but instead of blaming the former, why don't you ask yourself what made these people turn away from the FPM?
    Isn't it the FPM's fault for not being able to keep these supporters with them?
    Why are parties so quick to blame others for their failures?

    Instead of attacking civil society groups and cozying up to the thieves, which alienates their ex-supporters even more, they should embrace them or at least have a tacit agreement in certain districts.

    Do you prefer a Charbel Nahas or a Saad Hariri?
    Do you prefer a Gilbert Doumit or a Ghassan Achkar?
    Do you prefer a Yorgui Teyrouz or a Nasri Lahoud?

    The FPM has clearly said it prefers the latter......whose fault is it if people don't want to vote FPM then?
    The problem for me is that the majority of the mujtama3 madani are bunch of hypocrites ( hariri in disguise) Few of them are decent.
    Yes you have charbel nahas in moujtama3 madani but you have also paula yaacoubian.
    Other than that i agree. FPM is indeed responsible for those people leaving cause it was supposed to be up to their expecations ( speaking about the people who might end up trying the mojtama3 madani) . However i on a personal level still believe FPM is way better than the rest of the rulling class and all the mojtama3 madani will achieve is weakening FPM in their area of strength in favour of the rest of the rulling class without winning anything themselves.

    In other words, mujtama3 madani chances only exist where FPM exits . They dont have any chances in the rest of the districts .
    In this case vote for FPM. I myself am no longer convinced FPM is doing the right thing or working as much as it should. The Jade's post is true: many of us would have stayed home because we don't see the difference between Bassil and Geagea. We prefer Li Baladi because we believe that they'll sanction the future government's actions case by case on the basis of its benefits, and not for political purposes...
     
    SeaAb

    SeaAb

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    @The Jade
    You seem to focus on the civil society in Beirut only where there are a couple of decent names running. Other than the obvious red flag in Paula Yacoubian, you have Ne3me Ma7food who was the champion of selsle and attacking everyone who was against it (FM mainly) only to end up on their list in Tripoli. Sab3a's founder is an ex-Kataeb and allying with them. You have Ashraf Rifi allying with civil society groups in the north. Shu beddi 2ellak, they exude transparency and vision hal civil society.

    Regardless of all that, bedde 2emshe ma3ak. What's their best scenario? They win 3-5 seats? Then what? Hal program wen byensaraf? They won't be in the government to do anything. They'll be another Samy Gemayel whining the whole time. Ok we'll give them more time to build a bigger bloc in 4 yrs? They manage to jump from 3-5 to 6-8? Then what? How are you actually going to change anything?
     
    F

    freelebanonn

    Legendary Member
    In this case vote for FPM. I myself am no longer convinced FPM is doing the right thing or working as much as it should. The Jade's post is true: many of us would have stayed home because we don't see the difference between Bassil and Geagea. We prefer Li Baladi because we believe that they'll sanction the future government's actions case by case on the basis of its benefits, and not for political purposes...
    Why libaladi and not watani? And why they didint put aside their differences and their personal ambitions and formed one strong list to compete? Do you know what i think will happen in achrafieh? You will vote libaladi instead of FPM, libaladi wont reach the threshold to get 1 seat. FPM will lose also 1 additional seat cause lots of their potential votes went to libaladi & watani. Pharaon & co will win again for the Nth time.

    Or vote FPM and make pharaon & co loose cause surely FPM is better than them even though they are still far behind from what we expect from them.

    Their is a 3rd choice, watani and libaladi forming 1 list and winning a seat instead of FPM which is fine as a wake up call for FPM to change some of its strategies and policies . But we both know that libaladi & watani wont hold hands anytime soon.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Can you tell me what is the opinion of hizb sabaa about hizbullah weapons and syria war? Libaladi is running in beirut hezeb sabaa fielded candidates all over lebanon more than FPM 3a shwey! when i speak about mujtama3 madani , its about the majority of them not a certain group in them that might be different.
    Frankly, I don't know Sabaa's position towards Hezb's weapons. I haven't had the chance to read their program.

    You can't decide that Sabaa represents civil society just because they have fielded more candidates.

    You decided to put everyone in the same basket and came up with accusations you could not substantiate.
    If you want to criticize and attack, at least base your positions on facts.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Why libaladi and not watani? And why they didint put aside their differences and their personal ambitions and formed one strong list to compete? Do you know what i think will happen in achrafieh? You will vote libaladi instead of FPM, libaladi wont reach the threshold to get 1 seat. FPM will lose also 1 additional seat cause lots of their potential votes went to libaladi & watani. Pharaon & co will win again for the Nth time.

    Or vote FPM and make pharaon & co loose cause surely FPM is better than them even though they are still far behind from what we expect from them.

    Their is a 3rd choice, watani and libaladi forming 1 list and winning a seat instead of FPM which is fine as a wake up call for FPM to change some of its strategies and policies . But we both know that libaladi & watani wont hold hands anytime soon.
    Libaladi is part of Watani.
    Watani is a coalition that has LiBaladi, Sa7, tol3it ri7etkoun and other groups within it.

    So far as we know, Watani will have a list in Beirut 1 formed of Libaladi and other groups like Sabaa
     
    LVV

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    Frankly, I don't know Sabaa's position towards Hezb's weapons. I haven't had the chance to read their program.

    You can't decide that Sabaa represents civil society just because they have fielded more candidates.

    You decided to put everyone in the same basket and came up with accusations you could not substantiate.
    If you want to criticize and attack, at least base your positions on facts.
    Libaladi is part of Watani.
    Watani is a coalition that has LiBaladi, Sa7, tol3it ri7etkoun and other groups within it.

    So far as we know, Watani will have a list in Beirut 1 formed of Libaladi and other groups like Sabaa
    Know we know why you lied and opposed everything these last few months seeing nothing positive
    To open the fields to your friends
    Unfortunately jado you can lie to some people part of the time
    You can’t lie to everyone the whole time
    You will lose big
    We will talk may 7
     
    F

    freelebanonn

    Legendary Member
    Libaladi is part of Watani.
    Watani is a coalition that has LiBaladi, Sa7, tol3it ri7etkoun and other groups within it.

    So far as we know, Watani will have a list in Beirut 1 formed of Libaladi and other groups like Sabaa
    Thanks for the clarification didint know that. I thought they were 2 groups running against each others. the threshold in achrafieh is around 6500 they can easily do it. I dont think though they decided the final list yet as many candidates are running on same seats.
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Well-Known Member
    @The Jade
    You seem to focus on the civil society in Beirut only where there are a couple of decent names running. Other than the obvious red flag in Paula Yacoubian, you have Ne3me Ma7food who was the champion of selsle and attacking everyone who was against it (FM mainly) only to end up on their list in Tripoli. Sab3a's founder is an ex-Kataeb and allying with them. You have Ashraf Rifi allying with civil society groups in the north. Shu beddi 2ellak, they exude transparency and vision hal civil society.

    Regardless of all that, bedde 2emshe ma3ak. What's their best scenario? They win 3-5 seats? Then what? Hal program wen byensaraf? They won't be in the government to do anything. They'll be another Samy Gemayel whining the whole time. Ok we'll give them more time to build a bigger bloc in 4 yrs? They manage to jump from 3-5 to 6-8? Then what? How are you actually going to change anything?
    But then what is the solution? If Someone believes FPM disappointed them, فات بلالعبة and yet didn’t achieve much (regardless whose fault it is), what do they do, abstain? I won’t say Bassil and Geagea are equivalent (no one can ever get to the level of that criminal, just think Amshit, Nahr el Mott, Sarba, etc... there were more
    Lebanese army officer said murdered by this man - gl Khalil Ken3an (commander 5tth brigade), gl francois Zein (commander Harbieh), cdt Malouf (pilot, eddy’s Father), cdt Jergi (my avatar, maghaouir), cdt yammine (8th brigade), cdt Eid (maghaouir), cpt abou Nasr (maghaouir), etc. The list is too long - than anyone else in the Lebanese war.

    However, we need a mechanism to hold FPM accountable and express our doubts or frustration, at least about their strategy if not about themselves as party leaders
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    In this case vote for FPM. I myself am no longer convinced FPM is doing the right thing or working as much as it should. The Jade's post is true: many of us would have stayed home because we don't see the difference between Bassil and Geagea. We prefer Li Baladi because we believe that they'll sanction the future government's actions case by case on the basis of its benefits, and not for political purposes...
    the fact that the so called civil society is unable to reach a consensus despite realizing very well that their only chance is in their unity is indicative enough that they are far from being the sanctioners of future governments actions that you think they will be. i have observed the approach of the main groups attempting to falsly abduct and subjugate the representation of the civil society, at least by title, and they have failed by most standards despite some unprecedented media support and marketing strategies by many influential media outlets.

    with the exception of very few names, they do not possess nor do they present an objective approach to the issues we are facing. it is very easy to raise one's voice high in objection to everything, especially in a country like the one we live in, where we never run out of objectionable events and materials, the test and the most difficult part however is to contribute towards changing the reality into a better one. but even in objection one has got to be rational and objective, otherwise the opposition becomes a rather irrational one, and it will turn into an obstacle in the face of the progress and the change that we need.

    the kellon ye3ne kellon approach adopted by most of these figures is truly one of the most destructive approaches there is, the better approaches are based on discerning the good from the bad, and empowering one over the other. you can rest assured that whether they win or not, whether they manage a breakthrough or not, and whether the candidate you vote for on these lists is elected or not, yours will be a wasted vote dodzi and will dwindle down to nothing. so my advise to you is to place ur vote where it would count the most.
     
    Last edited:
    SeaAb

    SeaAb

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    But then what is the solution? If Someone believes FPM disappointed them, فات بلالعبة and yet didn’t achieve much (regardless whose fault it is), what do they do, abstain? I won’t say Bassil and Geagea are equivalent (no one can ever get to the level of that criminal, just think Amshit, Nahr el Mott, Sarba, etc... there were more
    Lebanese army officer said murdered by this man - gl Khalil Ken3an (commander 5tth brigade), gl francois Zein (commander Harbieh), cdt Malouf (pilot, eddy’s Father), cdt Jergi (my avatar, maghaouir), cdt yammine (8th brigade), cdt Eid (maghaouir), cpt abou Nasr (maghaouir), etc. The list is too long - than anyone else in the Lebanese war.

    However, we need a mechanism to hold FPM accountable and express our doubts or frustration, at least about their strategy if not about themselves as party leaders
    Just like Ziad Baroud said, in order to change and get things done you have to be part of a big bloc. That's the bottom line.
     
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