Parliamentary elections 2018 Elections: Beirut 1 district

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  • D

    Death To Google

    New Member
    it is not simply that, it is how she addressed the major issues, it is true she had no time to elaborate, but the approach is scary destructive to say the least. she simply has no clue what the implications of many of her stances are. she is a true social justice anarchist with all the implications of the term.
    I agree. However, on the big issues she can only talk. There are other destructives talking and will vote in parliament accordingly.
    One thing she has going for her is that at least she took clear stances on controversial issues. Which is more than can be said for most MPs that run and won or lost.
    She did say her priority is civil laws. For this, and knowing the limited damage she can do on other topics, I would vote for her.
    It is just that important that someone dedicated brings these issues up and works for them.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I agree. However, on the big issues she can only talk. There are other destructives talking and will vote in parliament accordingly.
    One thing she has going for her is that at least she took clear stances on controversial issues. Which is more than can be said for most MPs that run and won or lost.
    She did say her priority is civil laws. For this, and knowing the limited damage she can do on other topics, I would vote for her.
    It is just that important that someone dedicated brings these issues up and works for them.
    i think the answer to this should be rather obvious. the vote is granted in terms of agreement on the higher priorities, not on the lesser ones. in fact i do see people granting their votes when they agree on what ranks higher on the importance scale even if they disagree on the lower ones, but never the other way around. she is not going to sit aside when the time comes for her to cast her vote on the graver matters, her vote will still count just as everyone else's, and she cannot be entrusted with these choices.

    this is part of my problem with this wave of candidates, they are dangerous and they will do by far more harm than good, theirs is nothing short of an ideological anti-system fight and they are quite fascinated by anarchy, and this is one of the reasons why she doesn't even blink when she speaks of not allowing the refugees to go back to syria until the regime is changed etc... she really doesn't give a damn whether or not the we are all thrown into chaos. and you want to assess her based on her interest in the lesser day to day matters and give her a chance based on that? that is suicide, even for a leftist.
     
    PFC

    PFC

    Legendary Member
    it seems the official result for beirut 1 are out.

    FPM's beirut el 2oula el qawiya has 18373 votes
    kulluna watani has 6842 votes

    the final hassel is 5358

    which gives FPM on the list 3.429
    while kulluna watani has 1.277

    the difference in the number of votes for the highest fraction is ((0.429 - 0.277) * 5358) = 814 votes!

    so it is not a matter of few dozen votes as they were originally claiming, the difference is more than 800 votes in favor of FPM's list.

    case closed.
    civil society counts differently
     
    oldschool

    oldschool

    Active Member
    She won't do that. She can't be that stupid.

    She will just tnazzer and present bullshit sjw laws and cry sexism when she's opposed
     
    B

    butters

    Well-Known Member
    Butters I respect your way or conversation, honestly. After reading your posts I regret how I talked to you.

    We discuss a variety of topics here and you're welcome to give your opinion about any of them.

    What I objected to is the insinuation that voting for these people makes their voter different or somehow special from the rest.

    I give my opinion about every topic, I don't say I voted for fpm come hear why.

    I apologise if I was rude. But the special people I've met in the last 30 years were all fpmers fighting against occupation and militias and corruption while the likes of joumana Haddad ma Ken talee sawton.
    No problem. I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion.

    About the "specialness" issue... Keep in mind that the civil movement stands for people who have no representation and/or were abandoned and let down by the major parties. Here we're talking mostly about Beirutis who left or were shooed away decades ago (Beirut madinati, remember?) in addition to all the minorities (religious minorities, atheists, LGBTQ) and all the victims of domestic abuse, social inequality, and government oppression/suppression, who had no one to carry and give weight to their voices. The word "snowflake" is constantly thrown around and misused to describe people we dislike, and to call all these people snowflakes is extremely unfair, and misses the point. They didn't choose to be "special", and you can be sure that they never asked society and the government to neglect them. Times are only just starting to change, and that's why you now have the civil movement; to foster the causes and rally the people that everyone else turned their backs to (and they still do).

    Also, believe it or not, people like Joumana have always existed. Chances are they were even in your party or another in the past; I know I had my political preferences once. But again, times are changing, and the ancient sectarian ways of the entire old and tired bunch (all of them) have done nothing to unite us as a Lebanese people. All this election did was simply present us with an opportunity to gather, share and be vocal about these issues and our suggestions, nothing more, nothing less, and there will always be another time. It's not some sort of super complicated CIA conspiracy like a lot of people seem to have been convinced of.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The Armenians who voted for Paula Yacoubian are pro-Hariri / anti-HA.
     
    D

    Death To Google

    New Member
    i think the answer to this should be rather obvious. the vote is granted in terms of agreement on the higher priorities, not on the lesser ones. in fact i do see people granting their votes when they agree on what ranks higher on the importance scale even if they disagree on the lower ones, but never the other way around. she is not going to sit aside when the time comes for her to cast her vote on the graver matters, her vote will still count just as everyone else's, and she cannot be entrusted with these choices.

    this is part of my problem with this wave of candidates, they are dangerous and they will do by far more harm than good, theirs is nothing short of an ideological anti-system fight and they are quite fascinated by anarchy, and this is one of the reasons why she doesn't even blink when she speaks of not allowing the refugees to go back to syria until the regime is changed etc... she really doesn't give a damn whether or not the we are all thrown into chaos. and you want to assess her based on her interest in the lesser day to day matters and give her a chance based on that? that is suicide, even for a leftist.
    Who is talking about a "wave of candidates"... one out of 128 for god sake. When assessing her vs her competitor, the vote is granted in accordance to the marginal added or subtracted value of the candidate in the given set of conditions and circumstances. Simply, having that one extra more independent candidate, that represents a certain section of Lebanese (no matter what either of us think of that section) I see it as a net positive. If there was 20 of them in parliament, I might have another vote. What harm can she do really that you are portraying her as a walking calamity, cast wrong vote on a strategic topic? Won't Aoun's MP's vote with FM on strategic issues anyway? As I see it makes no difference either way there.

    What she can do different is have the balls to take a stand on clear issues and speak it... a much positive cultural edition to our parliament. And propose some civil laws legislation and expose those who vote against it. Another much welcomed quality to the parliament.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Who is talking about a "wave of candidates"... one out of 128 for god sake. When assessing her vs her competitor, the vote is granted in accordance to the marginal added or subtracted value of the candidate in the given set of conditions and circumstances. Simply, having that one extra more independent candidate, that represents a certain section of Lebanese (no matter what either of us think of that section) I see it as a net positive. If there was 20 of them in parliament, I might have another vote. What harm can she do really that you are portraying her as a walking calamity, cast wrong vote on a strategic topic? Won't Aoun's MP's vote with FM on strategic issues anyway? As I see it makes no difference either way there.

    66 candidates for kulluna watani do indeed constitute a wave. they are dangerous. and they cause more harm than good. even without them having been elected they have caused more harm than good almost in every district they have ran in.

    had they been decent folks, with a minimum of self respect, they would have supported the parliament members who are worthy of respect and worthy of being supported. instead they have delivered a blow to the discerning faculties of the Lebanese citizens, and attempted to blur their vision with destructive slogans the caliber of "kellon ye3ne kellon", consequently the best proven parliamentarian was not able to get reelected. this was the final act of mr. ghassan mukhayber:

    شاركت اليوم الأربعاء بآخر جلسة للجنة الإدارة والعدل، التي أقرت، بعد جهد طويل دام اكثر من خمس سنوات، اقتراح قانون المفقودين وضحايا الاختفاء القسري. مبروك!!! النص الذي أقرته اللجنة كان ثمرة نضال وتعاون طويلين، بدأ مع العزيز المرحوم غازي عاد والعزيزة وداد حلواني، والجمعيات التي مثلا، وعدد من الخبراء، وهو يدمج بين اقتراح القانون المقدمين مني شخصيا والزميلين زياد القادري وحكمت ديب. التحدي اليوم أمام الهيئة العامة لمجلس النواب الجديد لإقرار هذا القانون عليانه من الأولويات التشريعية.
    and yet charbel nahhas insisted on running in metn. prior to that i had some respect for nahhas, in the aftermath of his decision however i realized he is nothing short of a snake blinded by hatred and he is strictly interested in spewing his venom, and he insisted on running in metn despite realizing very well that his votes will come straight from ghassan mukhayber's pool

    the 66 candidates have proven they are unworthy of the trust of the Lebanese people, they did not care where their candidacy is harmful and where it is not; they are supported strictly by special interest groups and by few others who are guided by their own selfish and very narrow agendas at a time when we are still facing existential issues that need to be addressed on a completely different level.

    What she can do different is have the balls to take a stand on clear issues and speak it... a much positive cultural edition to our parliament. And propose some civil laws legislation and expose those who vote against it. Another much welcomed quality to the parliament.
    that is a load of crap. if anything has been exposed it is her credibility under the "kellon ye3ne kellon" slogan. she has to be able to discern right from wrong before exposing anything.

    the way i see it is that she wants to cheat her way into the parliament, and she knows very well there was no foul play as far as the vote count is concerned, and that the kulluna watani mandoubeen have signed the count before it was presented to be added to the database, and the final count matches the records they themselves have signed, and that they are more than 800 votes short from securing the highest fraction. she just wants to make a fuss, SJW style, regardless of whether or not she is right about it. so good riddance, the people voted well.
     
    Placebo

    Placebo

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    شاركت اليوم الأربعاء بآخر جلسة للجنة الإدارة والعدل، التي أقرت، بعد جهد طويل دام اكثر من خمس سنوات، اقتراح قانون المفقودين وضحايا الاختفاء القسري. مبروك!!! النص الذي أقرته اللجنة كان ثمرة نضال وتعاون طويلين، بدأ مع العزيز المرحوم غازي عاد والعزيزة وداد حلواني، والجمعيات التي مثلا، وعدد من الخبراء، وهو يدمج بين اقتراح القانون المقدمين مني شخصيا والزميلين زياد القادري وحكمت ديب. التحدي اليوم أمام الهيئة العامة لمجلس النواب الجديد لإقرار هذا القانون عليانه من الأولويات التشريعية.
    and yet charbel nahhas insisted on running in metn. prior to that i had some respect for nahhas, in the aftermath of his decision however i realized he is nothing short of a snake blinded by hatred and he is strictly interested in spewing his venom, and he insisted on running in metn despite realizing very well that his votes will come straight from ghassan mukhayber's pool
    I don't want to enter in the debate about the premise of what you're saying, but just the following:

    Had all the votes that Charbel Nahas got in Metn been transferred to Ghassan Mukheiber, he would have still ended up with less preferential than Edgard Maalouf.

    and if we transfer all the votes that Koulouna Watani got to the FPM list, the list would have still ended up with 4 Hassels.

    So, at the end of the day, Koulouna Watani had absolutely no impact on the FPM result n Metn. I think there's a bigger problem with FPM/Tashnag in Metn that lead to this relatively low score. Koulouna played a part, but there are other -more important- factors as well.

    If you are so keen on Mukheiber, then FPM should not have run with Elias Abou Saab in Metn. The guy was a minister and he is the close aide of PMA. why does he need to be an MP as well ? FPM should have focused on Kanaan, Mukheiber, and Edgard Maalouf. Then all 3 would have made it, and without any risk from Sarkis Sarkis.
     
    F

    freelebanonn

    Legendary Member
    I don't want to enter in the debate about the premise of what you're saying, but just the following:

    Had all the votes that Charbel Nahas got in Metn been transferred to Ghassan Mukheiber, he would have still ended up with less preferential than Edgard Maalouf.

    and if we transfer all the votes that Koulouna Watani got to the FPM list, the list would have still ended up with 4 Hassels.

    So, at the end of the day, Koulouna Watani had absolutely no impact on the FPM result n Metn. I think there's a bigger problem with FPM/Tashnag in Metn that lead to this relatively low score. Koulouna played a part, but there are other -more important- factors as well.

    If you are so keen on Mukheiber, then FPM should not have run with Elias Abou Saab in Metn. The guy was a minister and he is the close aide of PMA. why does he need to be an MP as well ? FPM should have focused on Kanaan, Mukheiber, and Edgard Maalouf. Then all 3 would have made it, and without any risk from Sarkis Sarkis.
    The biggest battle for FPM this election was winning with as many partisans as possible because they are more loyal and because opponents were waiting the election to finish to find anything that can discredit FPM and the number of partisans in the block was one of the strongest arguments.

    In every district, jubran pushed for the partisans to win over the independants. Eddy in metn, simon in jbeil, azar in kesserwen , salim in zahle etc. He did however send a message to hagop from tachnag saying khalli 3eynak 3a ghassan. Tachnag it seems did not do so and has FPM won the 5th seat sarkis would have made it and not ghassan.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    I don't want to enter in the debate about the premise of what you're saying, but just the following:

    Had all the votes that Charbel Nahas got in Metn been transferred to Ghassan Mukheiber, he would have still ended up with less preferential than Edgard Maalouf.

    and if we transfer all the votes that Koulouna Watani got to the FPM list, the list would have still ended up with 4 Hassels.

    So, at the end of the day, Koulouna Watani had absolutely no impact on the FPM result n Metn. I think there's a bigger problem with FPM/Tashnag in Metn that lead to this relatively low score. Koulouna played a part, but there are other -more important- factors as well.

    If you are so keen on Mukheiber, then FPM should not have run with Elias Abou Saab in Metn. The guy was a minister and he is the close aide of PMA. why does he need to be an MP as well ? FPM should have focused on Kanaan, Mukheiber, and Edgard Maalouf. Then all 3 would have made it, and without any risk from Sarkis Sarkis.
    i brought up ghassan mukhaybe as an evidence against the kellon ye3ne kellon approach. there are many parameters that lead to the low score in metn, most pronounced of these parameters is the circles that generate and spread negative feelings around the clock against FPM and bassil in particular. and at a time where the Lebanese people are in dire need to distinguish the good from bad, kulluna watani continued with the kellon ye3ne kellon approach. these circles include people who were supposed to be pro-fpm, but for some reason they turned against the party and voted to weaken it. so why blame tashnag? is this is not what you have done yourself? along with many others. just count how many people on this forum chose to vote for nahhas, when they had the perfect candidate running with FPM all along. badkon trabbo el tayyar kento? a slap on the wrist? isnt this what you were promoting? this is the bigger problem of FPM, the on going propaganda influencing many of its supporters.

    kanaan, bou saab and mukhayber are all a true reflection of the independent civil society, even though each has his own pronounced area of expertise. the laws they work with are civil by nature while their vote in support of the party and its political choices is restricted to the major junctions. the remaining point is not whether or not nahhas knew ahead of time how his candidacy will impact the highest fraction, it is rather that he did not base his nomination on where it would do most good, but rather on where it would do the most harm.
     
    D

    Death To Google

    New Member
    66 candidates for kulluna watani do indeed constitute a wave. they are dangerous. and they cause more harm than good. even without them having been elected they have caused more harm than good almost in every district they have ran in.

    had they been decent folks, with a minimum of self respect, they would have supported the parliament members who are worthy of respect and worthy of being supported. instead they have delivered a blow to the discerning faculties of the Lebanese citizens, and attempted to blur their vision with destructive slogans the caliber of "kellon ye3ne kellon", consequently the best proven parliamentarian was not able to get reelected. this was the final act of mr. ghassan mukhayber:

    شاركت اليوم الأربعاء بآخر جلسة للجنة الإدارة والعدل، التي أقرت، بعد جهد طويل دام اكثر من خمس سنوات، اقتراح قانون المفقودين وضحايا الاختفاء القسري. مبروك!!! النص الذي أقرته اللجنة كان ثمرة نضال وتعاون طويلين، بدأ مع العزيز المرحوم غازي عاد والعزيزة وداد حلواني، والجمعيات التي مثلا، وعدد من الخبراء، وهو يدمج بين اقتراح القانون المقدمين مني شخصيا والزميلين زياد القادري وحكمت ديب. التحدي اليوم أمام الهيئة العامة لمجلس النواب الجديد لإقرار هذا القانون عليانه من الأولويات التشريعية.
    and yet charbel nahhas insisted on running in metn. prior to that i had some respect for nahhas, in the aftermath of his decision however i realized he is nothing short of a snake blinded by hatred and he is strictly interested in spewing his venom, and he insisted on running in metn despite realizing very well that his votes will come straight from ghassan mukhayber's pool

    the 66 candidates have proven they are unworthy of the trust of the Lebanese people, they did not care where their candidacy is harmful and where it is not; they are supported strictly by special interest groups and by few others who are guided by their own selfish and very narrow agendas at a time when we are still facing existential issues that need to be addressed on a completely different level.


    that is a load of crap. if anything has been exposed it is her credibility under the "kellon ye3ne kellon" slogan. she has to be able to discern right from wrong before exposing anything.

    the way i see it is that she wants to cheat her way into the parliament, and she knows very well there was no foul play as far as the vote count is concerned, and that the kulluna watani mandoubeen have signed the count before it was presented to be added to the database, and the final count matches the records they themselves have signed, and that they are more than 800 votes short from securing the highest fraction. she just wants to make a fuss, SJW style, regardless of whether or not she is right about it. so good riddance, the people voted well.
    I don't want to get into futile debate or engage in arguments over mercurial slippery points. You are talking in general and not addressing my point in specific. If you read my posts you would know I do not support neither Koullouna Watani as a movement nor blind voting to civil society lists. In this particular case, one might have a different opinion and that is all there is to it.
     
    W

    wdawle1

    Member
    Tashnag last Armenian party left standing in vote aftermath


    Tashnag last Armenian party left standing in vote aftermath

    BEIRUT: The wake of the weekend’s parliamentary elections has parties and groups adjusting to new balances of power – the Armenian community among them.

    As for many of the major parties, the new proportional electoral system has created a shift for Armenians’ representation in Parliament.

    The three major Armenian political parties nominated a total of eight candidates in the race.

    While the Tashnag Party won an additional seat in Parliament to secure three MPs, the Hunchak Party lost its representative for the first time in over two decades. The Ramgavar Party – allied with the Lebanese Forces – was also unsuccessful in re-claiming the seat it lost in 2009.

    “The Armenian Lebanese electoral results were shy of any real success,” Harry Hagopian, an Armenian “MENA observer,” said of the two parties’ failure to enter Parliament.

    Tashnag’s MP Hagop Pakradounian was re-elected in Metn, while two other candidates, Hagop Terzian and Alexander Matossian, won on the Free Patriotic Movement-backed list in the Beirut I district – an Armenian political powerhouse.

    Tashnag had a fourth unsuccessful candidate in the district, Serge Jokhadarian, running for the Armenian Catholic seat.

    Tourism Minister Avedis Guidanian, who also heads Tashnag’s electoral office, said the party “was extremely satisfied” with the results. Tashnag’s three winning candidates had a total of 13,009 votes combined.

    However, Guidanian said the party had issues with “a large number of [Tashnag’s] voters” incorrectly filling out the ballots, which he attributed to the complexities of the new electoral law.

    “Around 600 votes in Beirut and some 500 in Metn were not ratified because the X’s were made in the wrong area, for example on the photo [of the candidate],” Guidanian said. “Because of this, if people say the number of votes our candidates got were too few, they should add up the [invalid] votes.”

    Paula Yacoubian, who ran with the nonsectarian-identifying Sabaa party, claimed an Armenian Orthodox seat in Beirut I with 2,500 votes.

    During a Y-Chats online interview in the lead-up to the elections, Yacoubian accused Tashnag of intimidating her Armenian supporters. She said she had received complaints from her supporters, who claimed they’d been told they’d be fired from work and “were scared of sleeping at home” if they voted for her.

    Guidanian denied his party had been involved in such incidents, adding that the party had encouraged supporters to vote on their own convictions. “We said we prefer if they voted for one of the Armenian parties, but [didn’t undertake] threats or pressuring.”

    Meanwhile, a supporter of the Hunchak Party – also known as the Social Democrat Party – who asked not to be identified, expressed “extreme disappointment” at the electoral outcome.

    Hunchak’s outgoing MP Sebouh Kalpakian, who is also a representative of its electoral office, told The Daily Star that “since the 1992 elections and the Taif Accord ... this is the first [parliamentary] election [Hunchak] lost in 25 years.”

    Kalpakian cited the new law, among other factors including alleged vote buying, as the reason for the loss. He expressed disapproval of the new division of districts and distribution of seats between Christians and Muslims.

    “I am deeply pained to say that the new electoral law set us back.”

    Kalpakian said the party has a decadeslong alliance with the Future Movement, whose own electoral performance impacted Hunchak.

    Kalpakian, who was running in Beirut I on the Tashnag-FPM list, noted that it was the first time Hunchak was in an electoral alliance with Tashnag but added that it was a coincidence due to Future being allied with the FPM.

    Sevag Hagopian, secretary of the Ramgavar Party’s international central board and editor-in-chief of party daily Zartonk, credited its loss to a “combination of the [new] law, bribery and delays in reaching an agreement between the three [Armenian] parties to form a unified block.” The situation, Hagopian told The Daily Star, didn’t give his party enough time to properly set its electoral mechanism and campaign.

    He said the party didn’t establish last-minute alliances for political reasons that have no basis in shared ideologies. Hagopian added that Ramgavar’s long-standing ties and political alliance with the Lebanese Forces was based on “a shared vision for Lebanon.”

    He added that “the elections are over now and, as in every election, there shall be winners and losers,” which he said will lead the party to re-evaluate its strategy for the future.

    A source close to Tashnag told The Daily Star that the party had paid up to $1,000 per voter for plane tickets to fly expats back to Lebanon – which is not forbidden in the electoral law.

    Kalpakian denied the party had attempted to buy votes, saying, “Even if we thought of it, we are unable to bear such costs.”

    Guidanian, on the other hand, admitted that plane tickets were bought for a number of voters, who he said supported the party and had requested help being flown back to vote. Guidanian said Tashnag merely granted supporters’ requests and “did not bribe people for votes.”

    As for the formation of a new Cabinet, Guidanian said Tashnag would “surely get one minister,” but added it hadn’t agreed which ministry to push for.

    This would come after internal elections on May 21, Guidanian added.
     
    B

    butters

    Well-Known Member
    I'd like some explanation as to how people from Kulluna Watani are "dangerous" and "cause more harm than good" please.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    if it is me you want the answers from, and if you are expecting answers, you will have to address the question more properly.
     
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